Truth about being three coughs above FARMS at a high performing Charter School

[Anonymous]

I can't be the only person here who questions if OP lives in DC.

Her general posts and tendency to state the obvious makes me question her (or his) residency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can't be the only person here who questions if OP lives in DC.

Her general posts and tendency to state the obvious makes me question her (or his) residency.

I can't be the only person here who thinks that people who think others are fakes are more likely to be fakes themselves

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a working class parent of a child that attends a highly demanded public DC Charter School. A school that is sought out by thousands of parents, has long waiting lists, and is the subject of much debate on DCUMD forums. My children have been in several high demand public schools for over 10 years.

I'd like to share a bit about my experience if you are considering sending your child to a highly demanded public school.

I am a parent that:

Finished college;
Has a thankless job, pays taxes;
Takes no government income subsidy to feed my family; and
Is far from wealthy in any form.

With that out of the way, here it goes. At high demand public charter schools, there is a clear understanding that the only families that have a real voice are the wealthy families. They can afford the $2,000-$10,000 donations that quietly roll in. The wealthy families are the ones that can afford the high priced auxiliary programs. The wealthy families are the ones that are not impacted by school being closed on odd days in the middle of the week, or consistently with week long breaks in instruction.

The donations and social leverage of these families ensure that their children are chosen for extra perks, special activities, and instruction. It also puts added pressure on the public teachers at the school to give their children high marks on subjective assessment scales. The children of working parents are relegated to being tracked in "meeting the standard" or "below standard", as it compares to their wealthy peers, who many times supplement instruction with private tutoring.

At a private school, the wealthy charter school children would be one of many with parents of status and influence. The majority of children would have access to private tutoring. The majority of children may summer in exotic locations and have elevated points of reference. Competition to shine would be high; they would actually have to work hard to stand out.

Alternatively, at the high demand public charter school, children of the wealthy and almost wealthy easily stand out in stark contrast to their lower class peers.

Wealthy parents are recognized as "pioneers", "friends of public education","school reformers", and "parent organization leaders". But many are really attention seekers using public education to save money and to generate their own personal relevance. Listservs are abundant at these schools coupled with a clear understanding that a large portion of the school's parents may not have regular internet or technology access.

In a way the gentrification we see in real estate has a parallel model to what we see in the charter school movement; looks good from the outside, but on the inside, the marginalization of the economic classes is apparent. Like H Street, it might look a lot nicer, but the working people who always lived their can now no longer afford to eat there.

And the high demand charter school is an expensive place to eat.

The average cost of private tutoring runs from $30-$50 dollars per hour. Most parents that can afford to pay for private tutoring do so, and offset the public charter school's arbitrary instruction. As many these schools do not receive Title I funds, they are known for hiring teachers with little classroom experience to save money. Your lower income DS or DD will still have just as much chance of having that fresh out of school teacher as any other public school in DC. Be advised that the poorer kids will be routed to the inexperienced teacher a lot quicker than the rich ones will.

High performing charter schools are under little to no scrutiny by outsiders; they ride off the testing performance of the rich kids as if the school is producing/instructing at a higher level. In turn, they are not required to ensure academic assistance pathways for students, unless the student is one to two grades below level or on FARMS.

Low income parent (45-65K), be wary. There is no guarantee that just because your child attends the high demand school that they are truly being taught by highly qualified and capable educators on a daily basis. At times, you will find that your concerns are responded to with arrogance and be tinged with an undercurrent of apathy. You will definitely hear the phrases, "We are a school of choice." and "Well if you don't like what we are doing, go to your neighborhood school."

Do not make the mistake of believing that you just won the golden ticket because your child's name was chosen in the charter school lottery for a high demand charter school. A good school is one where your child can feel physically, socially, and emotionally safe to open themselves up for learning. A great school is one that can provide the environment of a good school, while simultaneously providing well thought out pathways that push every student to their highest potential, regardless of income.

You will have to do the same child advocacy work that you may have expected at a poorer performing school; but without the wraparound services that a poorer performing school would have to provide, due to increased outside versight. Just keep that in mind.

Would I have done anything differently over these ten years? Yes. I think I would have read this post and kept its points in mind.

You just described all of DCPS in a nutshell. High SES families get Mann or Key or Lafayette. Low SES families get HD Cooke, Cardozo, Amidon-Bowen, and Ballou.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can't be the only person here who questions if OP lives in DC.

Her general posts and tendency to state the obvious makes me question her (or his) residency.

+1 And her rant that school's mysteriously "lose" residency documents unless you follow some unwritten charter school rule that's only known to higher SES families. You have to provide residency documents every year at reenrollment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And by making before and after care so expensive, and expensive extracurriculars, combined with a crazy school calendar, they are purposefully weeding out lower income families so that they can continue to maintain these false appearances. So in fact, what they are doing is successful, according to some pp's in this thread who have admitted that they haven't applied because of this very culture. And the school knows these lower income families, and know that these families don't contribute anything to their agenda, so they are treated differently.

And, to that end, I believe several of these sought after charters are completely aware of these facts - they are way ahead of the OP.

Whatever it is, it seems to be working since it's nearly impossible to get into these schools under than at entering grades since there is very little attrition. If there is so much "weeding out" of lower SES families, you would think there would be more spaces available in the higher grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And by making before and after care so expensive, and expensive extracurriculars, combined with a crazy school calendar, they are purposefully weeding out lower income families so that they can continue to maintain these false appearances. So in fact, what they are doing is successful, according to some pp's in this thread who have admitted that they haven't applied because of this very culture. And the school knows these lower income families, and know that these families don't contribute anything to their agenda, so they are treated differently.

And, to that end, I believe several of these sought after charters are completely aware of these facts - they are way ahead of the OP.

Whatever it is, it seems to be working since it's nearly impossible to get into these schools under than at entering grades since there is very little attrition. If there is so much "weeding out" of lower SES families, you would think there would be more spaces available in the higher grades.

Yeah, maybe OP can pack it up out to PG already then, and open up a spot or two... Seeing as how her children are suffering so unnecessarily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a working class parent of a child that attends a highly demanded public DC Charter School. A school that is sought out by thousands of parents, has long waiting lists, and is the subject of much debate on DCUMD forums. My children have been in several high demand public schools for over 10 years.

I'd like to share a bit about my experience if you are considering sending your child to a highly demanded public school.

I am a parent that:

Finished college;
Has a thankless job, pays taxes;
Takes no government income subsidy to feed my family; and
Is far from wealthy in any form.

With that out of the way, here it goes. At high demand public charter schools, there is a clear understanding that the only families that have a real voice are the wealthy families. They can afford the $2,000-$10,000 donations that quietly roll in. The wealthy families are the ones that can afford the high priced auxiliary programs. The wealthy families are the ones that are not impacted by school being closed on odd days in the middle of the week, or consistently with week long breaks in instruction.

The donations and social leverage of these families ensure that their children are chosen for extra perks, special activities, and instruction. It also puts added pressure on the public teachers at the school to give their children high marks on subjective assessment scales. The children of working parents are relegated to being tracked in "meeting the standard" or "below standard", as it compares to their wealthy peers, who many times supplement instruction with private tutoring.

At a private school, the wealthy charter school children would be one of many with parents of status and influence. The majority of children would have access to private tutoring. The majority of children may summer in exotic locations and have elevated points of reference. Competition to shine would be high; they would actually have to work hard to stand out.

Alternatively, at the high demand public charter school, children of the wealthy and almost wealthy easily stand out in stark contrast to their lower class peers.

Wealthy parents are recognized as "pioneers", "friends of public education","school reformers", and "parent organization leaders". But many are really attention seekers using public education to save money and to generate their own personal relevance. Listservs are abundant at these schools coupled with a clear understanding that a large portion of the school's parents may not have regular internet or technology access.

In a way the gentrification we see in real estate has a parallel model to what we see in the charter school movement; looks good from the outside, but on the inside, the marginalization of the economic classes is apparent. Like H Street, it might look a lot nicer, but the working people who always lived their can now no longer afford to eat there.

And the high demand charter school is an expensive place to eat.

The average cost of private tutoring runs from $30-$50 dollars per hour. Most parents that can afford to pay for private tutoring do so, and offset the public charter school's arbitrary instruction. As many these schools do not receive Title I funds, they are known for hiring teachers with little classroom experience to save money. Your lower income DS or DD will still have just as much chance of having that fresh out of school teacher as any other public school in DC. Be advised that the poorer kids will be routed to the inexperienced teacher a lot quicker than the rich ones will.

High performing charter schools are under little to no scrutiny by outsiders; they ride off the testing performance of the rich kids as if the school is producing/instructing at a higher level. In turn, they are not required to ensure academic assistance pathways for students, unless the student is one to two grades below level or on FARMS.

Low income parent (45-65K), be wary. There is no guarantee that just because your child attends the high demand school that they are truly being taught by highly qualified and capable educators on a daily basis. At times, you will find that your concerns are responded to with arrogance and be tinged with an undercurrent of apathy. You will definitely hear the phrases, "We are a school of choice." and "Well if you don't like what we are doing, go to your neighborhood school."

Do not make the mistake of believing that you just won the golden ticket because your child's name was chosen in the charter school lottery for a high demand charter school. A good school is one where your child can feel physically, socially, and emotionally safe to open themselves up for learning. A great school is one that can provide the environment of a good school, while simultaneously providing well thought out pathways that push every student to their highest potential, regardless of income.

You will have to do the same child advocacy work that you may have expected at a poorer performing school; but without the wraparound services that a poorer performing school would have to provide, due to increased outside versight. Just keep that in mind.

Would I have done anything differently over these ten years? Yes. I think I would have read this post and kept its points in mind.

You just described all of DCPS in a nutshell. High SES families get Mann or Key or Lafayette. Low SES families get HD Cooke, Cardozo, Amidon-Bowen, and Ballou.

Do you really mean "get"? I think you mean "make". High SES are always going to demand something better and if they don't get it they will leave the system. The solution is affordable housing plus living wages, not school reform alone. That always fails just look at Newark NJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And by making before and after care so expensive, and expensive extracurriculars, combined with a crazy school calendar, they are purposefully weeding out lower income families so that they can continue to maintain these false appearances. So in fact, what they are doing is successful, according to some pp's in this thread who have admitted that they haven't applied because of this very culture. And the school knows these lower income families, and know that these families don't contribute anything to their agenda, so they are treated differently.

And, to that end, I believe several of these sought after charters are completely aware of these facts - they are way ahead of the OP.

This is such a crock. I know exactly who OP is and what she fails to mention here is that even if she truly can't afford to pay for aftercare or extracurricular activities, she could ask the people at her "highly regarded charter," the very ones she is claiming are discriminating against her, and they would bend over backward to try and find a solution for her and her DC. But she doesn't ask, and I think it's partly because it's hard to ask for help from the driver's seat of $60K SUV!

She's got a chip on her shoulder because she doesn't feel "acknowledged" enough. And I'm willing to admit that hey, maybe she isn't. There are probably numerous reasons for that: maybe there's a cultural disconnect, maybe she's misunderstood, maybe she feels like an outsider, maybe she has complained about ridiculous things and been put on the defensive because of it, maybe she thinks she could do it all better. Regardless of what she is experiencing or how she feels about it, her kid is not being discriminated against. What she fails to realize is that by taking her own experience and spinning into some sort of yarn of discrimination - discrimination that is hurting her kids and equating to them not getting an equal education, she's actually hurting her kid(s)!

Please, take a deep look OP.

Whoa! This is getting personal.

[Anonymous]

I am at a ward 3 school and at some events I feel like the pledge at the sorority that is the easy elimination. Money, class, status you name it. It is easy to feel completely out of place when you don't have a remotely similar background. That said, I want the educational options, so I often just swallow smile and say what needs to be done today. Sometimes you just got to be the sweat equity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you really mean "get"? I think you mean "make". High SES are always going to demand something better and if they don't get it they will leave the system. The solution is affordable housing plus living wages, not school reform alone. That always fails just look at Newark NJ.

Hah! As if anyone high SES has lived in Newark in decades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a working class parent of a child that attends a highly demanded public DC Charter School. A school that is sought out by thousands of parents, has long waiting lists, and is the subject of much debate on DCUMD forums. My children have been in several high demand public schools for over 10 years.

I'd like to share a bit about my experience if you are considering sending your child to a highly demanded public school.

I am a parent that:

Finished college;
Has a thankless job, pays taxes;
Takes no government income subsidy to feed my family; and
Is far from wealthy in any form.

With that out of the way, here it goes. At high demand public charter schools, there is a clear understanding that the only families that have a real voice are the wealthy families. They can afford the $2,000-$10,000 donations that quietly roll in. The wealthy families are the ones that can afford the high priced auxiliary programs. The wealthy families are the ones that are not impacted by school being closed on odd days in the middle of the week, or consistently with week long breaks in instruction.

The donations and social leverage of these families ensure that their children are chosen for extra perks, special activities, and instruction. It also puts added pressure on the public teachers at the school to give their children high marks on subjective assessment scales. The children of working parents are relegated to being tracked in "meeting the standard" or "below standard", as it compares to their wealthy peers, who many times supplement instruction with private tutoring.

At a private school, the wealthy charter school children would be one of many with parents of status and influence. The majority of children would have access to private tutoring. The majority of children may summer in exotic locations and have elevated points of reference. Competition to shine would be high; they would actually have to work hard to stand out.

Alternatively, at the high demand public charter school, children of the wealthy and almost wealthy easily stand out in stark contrast to their lower class peers.

Wealthy parents are recognized as "pioneers", "friends of public education","school reformers", and "parent organization leaders". But many are really attention seekers using public education to save money and to generate their own personal relevance. Listservs are abundant at these schools coupled with a clear understanding that a large portion of the school's parents may not have regular internet or technology access.

In a way the gentrification we see in real estate has a parallel model to what we see in the charter school movement; looks good from the outside, but on the inside, the marginalization of the economic classes is apparent. Like H Street, it might look a lot nicer, but the working people who always lived their can now no longer afford to eat there.

And the high demand charter school is an expensive place to eat.

The average cost of private tutoring runs from $30-$50 dollars per hour. Most parents that can afford to pay for private tutoring do so, and offset the public charter school's arbitrary instruction. As many these schools do not receive Title I funds, they are known for hiring teachers with little classroom experience to save money. Your lower income DS or DD will still have just as much chance of having that fresh out of school teacher as any other public school in DC. Be advised that the poorer kids will be routed to the inexperienced teacher a lot quicker than the rich ones will.

High performing charter schools are under little to no scrutiny by outsiders; they ride off the testing performance of the rich kids as if the school is producing/instructing at a higher level. In turn, they are not required to ensure academic assistance pathways for students, unless the student is one to two grades below level or on FARMS.

Low income parent (45-65K), be wary. There is no guarantee that just because your child attends the high demand school that they are truly being taught by highly qualified and capable educators on a daily basis. At times, you will find that your concerns are responded to with arrogance and be tinged with an undercurrent of apathy. You will definitely hear the phrases, "We are a school of choice." and "Well if you don't like what we are doing, go to your neighborhood school."

Do not make the mistake of believing that you just won the golden ticket because your child's name was chosen in the charter school lottery for a high demand charter school. A good school is one where your child can feel physically, socially, and emotionally safe to open themselves up for learning. A great school is one that can provide the environment of a good school, while simultaneously providing well thought out pathways that push every student to their highest potential, regardless of income.

You will have to do the same child advocacy work that you may have expected at a poorer performing school; but without the wraparound services that a poorer performing school would have to provide, due to increased outside versight. Just keep that in mind.

Would I have done anything differently over these ten years? Yes. I think I would have read this post and kept its points in mind.

You just described all of DCPS in a nutshell. High SES families get Mann or Key or Lafayette. Low SES families get HD Cooke, Cardozo, Amidon-Bowen, and Ballou.

Do you really mean "get"? I think you mean "make". High SES are always going to demand something better and if they don't get it they will leave the system. The solution is affordable housing plus living wages, not school reform alone. That always fails just look at Newark NJ.

Hmm, does this mean that high-SES families are good or evil? According to OP, they're a terrible scourge on charters. According to PP, they're a beneficial influence on DCPS. Yet both are public schools. So which is it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am at a ward 3 school and at some events I feel like the pledge at the sorority that is the easy elimination. Money, class, status you name it. It is easy to feel completely out of place when you don't have a remotely similar background. That said, I want the educational options, so I often just swallow smile and say what needs to be done today. Sometimes you just got to be the sweat equity.

This is fair pp, I get it, amd I feel badly you have to suck it up for your kids, the system isn't perfect, nor is this country. If you knew who OP was accusing of said discrimination though, everyone on this thread would be as aghast and dismissive of her inane conspiracy theories as I am.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am at a ward 3 school and at some events I feel like the pledge at the sorority that is the easy elimination. Money, class, status you name it. It is easy to feel completely out of place when you don't have a remotely similar background. That said, I want the educational options, so I often just swallow smile and say what needs to be done today. Sometimes you just got to be the sweat equity.

This is fair pp, I get it, amd I feel badly you have to suck it up for your kids, the system isn't perfect, nor is this country. If you knew who OP was

accusing of said discrimination though, everyone on this thread would be as aghast and dismissive of her inane conspiracy theories as I am.

Have you heard these allegations before? If so, where? I am always fascinated how people can figure out posters on an anonymous forum. What school is OP referencing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, to the extent that you are describing how you and your family have been made to feel -- marginalized, unheard, etc. -- your post is thought-provoking and definitely a valuable read. But in addition to that, you have raised some very serious allegations. It's no joke to claim that

a certain school only gives the rich kids to the best teachers,

that they give better grades to kids purely because they come from wealthy families,

and that the school will manipulate residency paperwork to effectively kick you out if you complain about any of it.

To me, those allegations diminish the credibility of your post. If they were real, you would name the school or at the very list notify the PCSB and give them all of the proof you have. If these things are acghakkj going on, it's pretty cowardly to throw around veiled anonymous accusations.

+1000 Please name the evil HRCS where all these nefarious deeds happen!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a working class parent of a child that attends a highly demanded public DC Charter School. A school that is sought out by thousands of parents, has long waiting lists, and is the subject of much debate on DCUMD forums. My children have been in several high demand public schools for over 10 years.

I'd like to share a bit about my experience if you are considering sending your child to a highly demanded public school.

I am a parent that:

Finished college;
Has a thankless job, pays taxes;
Takes no government income subsidy to feed my family; and
Is far from wealthy in any form.

With that out of the way, here it goes. At high demand public charter schools, there is a clear understanding that the only families that have a real voice are the wealthy families. They can afford the $2,000-$10,000 donations that quietly roll in. The wealthy families are the ones that can afford the high priced auxiliary programs. The wealthy families are the ones that are not impacted by school being closed on odd days in the middle of the week, or consistently with week long breaks in instruction.

The donations and social leverage of these families ensure that their children are chosen for extra perks, special activities, and instruction. It also puts added pressure on the public teachers at the school to give their children high marks on subjective assessment scales. The children of working parents are relegated to being tracked in "meeting the standard" or "below standard", as it compares to their wealthy peers, who many times supplement instruction with private tutoring.

At a private school, the wealthy charter school children would be one of many with parents of status and influence. The majority of children would have access to private tutoring. The majority of children may summer in exotic locations and have elevated points of reference. Competition to shine would be high; they would actually have to work hard to stand out.

Alternatively, at the high demand public charter school, children of the wealthy and almost wealthy easily stand out in stark contrast to their lower class peers.

Wealthy parents are recognized as "pioneers", "friends of public education","school reformers", and "parent organization leaders". But many are really attention seekers using public education to save money and to generate their own personal relevance. Listservs are abundant at these schools coupled with a clear understanding that a large portion of the school's parents may not have regular internet or technology access.

In a way the gentrification we see in real estate has a parallel model to what we see in the charter school movement; looks good from the outside, but on the inside, the marginalization of the economic classes is apparent. Like H Street, it might look a lot nicer, but the working people who always lived their can now no longer afford to eat there.

And the high demand charter school is an expensive place to eat.

The average cost of private tutoring runs from $30-$50 dollars per hour. Most parents that can afford to pay for private tutoring do so, and offset the public charter school's arbitrary instruction. As many these schools do not receive Title I funds, they are known for hiring teachers with little classroom experience to save money. Your lower income DS or DD will still have just as much chance of having that fresh out of school teacher as any other public school in DC. Be advised that the poorer kids will be routed to the inexperienced teacher a lot quicker than the rich ones will.

High performing charter schools are under little to no scrutiny by outsiders; they ride off the testing performance of the rich kids as if the school is producing/instructing at a higher level. In turn, they are not required to ensure academic assistance pathways for students, unless the student is one to two grades below level or on FARMS.

Low income parent (45-65K), be wary. There is no guarantee that just because your child attends the high demand school that they are truly being taught by highly qualified and capable educators on a daily basis. At times, you will find that your concerns are responded to with arrogance and be tinged with an undercurrent of apathy. You will definitely hear the phrases, "We are a school of choice." and "Well if you don't like what we are doing, go to your neighborhood school."

Do not make the mistake of believing that you just won the golden ticket because your child's name was chosen in the charter school lottery for a high demand charter school. A good school is one where your child can feel physically, socially, and emotionally safe to open themselves up for learning. A great school is one that can provide the environment of a good school, while simultaneously providing well thought out pathways that push every student to their highest potential, regardless of income.

You will have to do the same child advocacy work that you may have expected at a poorer performing school; but without the wraparound services that a poorer performing school would have to provide, due to increased outside versight. Just keep that in mind.

Would I have done anything differently over these ten years? Yes. I think I would have read this post and kept its points in mind.

You just described all of DCPS in a nutshell. High SES families get Mann or Key or Lafayette. Low SES families get HD Cooke, Cardozo, Amidon-Bowen, and Ballou.

Do you really mean "get"? I think you mean "make". High SES are always going to demand something better and if they don't get it they will leave the system. The solution is affordable housing plus living wages, not school reform alone. That always fails just look at Newark NJ.

Hmm, does this mean that high-SES families are good or evil? According to OP, they're a terrible scourge on charters. According to PP, they're a beneficial influence on DCPS. Yet both are public schools. So which is it?

Neither good nor evil. Just a fact of life, there are haves and have nots. Both groups are entitled to use the public schools because they are public. Low SES students often draw more per student funding but my point above is that education policy alone is not going to alter anything much. And, yes, the Newark story is on target because it shows that if riots drive the middle class from a city, don't think charter schools are going to uplift the poor who are left behind. Gentrification won't improve it either. Only an integrated education-economic policy will. Which we are not getting anytime soon...