Proof of heaven

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Lots of people "have the faith" to simply gain notoriety, attention, money, prestige, respect, etc.

God experience wouldn't exactly bring him popularity among his peers. Again, he's a medical doctor, a scientists, from ivy-league institutions. What do you think he colleagues will say? Most likely that he's crazy.

People who want a career change, aren't really interested in what their former colleagues think. Not to sound like a broken record, but ive-league-ness, science and medical background, are things that are pretty irrelevant. Plenty of people hold those identities and are a complete crock of shit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
A little OT, but this is the kind of response that makes those of us skeptical about religion throw up our hands in frustration. If you find God, great. If not - well, just try harder - "with all your heart." Still didn't work? You must not be trying with all of your heart! How do I know this? Because the Bible says so.

Stop trying, start feeling. Just pay attention to your feelings, that's all.

If amounts to the same thing - if you don't "find God" it's because of your inadequacies. Absurd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Lots of people "have the faith" to simply gain notoriety, attention, money, prestige, respect, etc.

God experience wouldn't exactly bring him popularity among his peers. Again, he's a medical doctor, a scientists, from ivy-league institutions. What do you think he colleagues will say? Most likely that he's crazy.

People who want a career change, aren't really interested in what their former colleagues think. Not to sound like a broken record, but ive-league-ness, science and medical background, are things that are pretty irrelevant. Plenty of people hold those identities and are a complete crock of shit.

I'm not the poster you are responding to, but how do you know this? You don't. It is some kind of a generalization that you just sorta made up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Lots of people "have the faith" to simply gain notoriety, attention, money, prestige, respect, etc.

God experience wouldn't exactly bring him popularity among his peers. Again, he's a medical doctor, a scientists, from ivy-league institutions. What do you think he colleagues will say? Most likely that he's crazy.

People who want a career change, aren't really interested in what their former colleagues think. Not to sound like a broken record, but ive-league-ness, science and medical background, are things that are pretty irrelevant. Plenty of people hold those identities and are a complete crock of shit.

I'm not the poster you are responding to, but how do you know this? You don't. It is some kind of a generalization that you just sorta made up.

No, I'm saying that someone's career, place of education, or place of employment, is irrelevant when it comes to how valid their claims are - being Harvard educated/employed and being a doctor does not make someone more valid than someone who is not. Using those labels as credentials is incredibly useless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
A little OT, but this is the kind of response that makes those of us skeptical about religion throw up our hands in frustration. If you find God, great. If not - well, just try harder - "with all your heart." Still didn't work? You must not be trying with all of your heart! How do I know this? Because the Bible says so.

Stop trying, start feeling. Just pay attention to your feelings, that's all.

If amounts to the same thing - if you don't "find God" it's because of your inadequacies. Absurd.

Where did you read THAT?

If you don't find him, then you don't find him. It's OK. He'll find you himself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
A little OT, but this is the kind of response that makes those of us skeptical about religion throw up our hands in frustration. If you find God, great. If not - well, just try harder - "with all your heart." Still didn't work? You must not be trying with all of your heart! How do I know this? Because the Bible says so.

Stop trying, start feeling. Just pay attention to your feelings, that's all.

If amounts to the same thing - if you don't "find God" it's because of your inadequacies. Absurd.

Where did you read THAT?

If you don't find him, then you don't find him. It's OK. He'll find you himself.

Correction - "She'll find you herself."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Lots of people "have the faith" to simply gain notoriety, attention, money, prestige, respect, etc.

God experience wouldn't exactly bring him popularity among his peers. Again, he's a medical doctor, a scientists, from ivy-league institutions. What do you think he colleagues will say? Most likely that he's crazy.

People who want a career change, aren't really interested in what their former colleagues think. Not to sound like a broken record, but ive-league-ness, science and medical background, are things that are pretty irrelevant. Plenty of people hold those identities and are a complete crock of shit.

So to sum up your view: you're saying it's hormones, but he wanted a career change (from being a very well surgeon who also served on academic boards) so he made up "faith healing" to lose it all and gain notoriety, attention, money, prestige, respect (as if he didn't have it) from the book?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: being Harvard educated/employed and being a doctor does not make someone more valid than someone who is not. Using those labels as credentials is incredibly useless.

in the context it is relevant. For a doctor and scientist to admit to having an experience with God and believing in God is a big step imo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Lots of people "have the faith" to simply gain notoriety, attention, money, prestige, respect, etc.

God experience wouldn't exactly bring him popularity among his peers. Again, he's a medical doctor, a scientists, from ivy-league institutions. What do you think he colleagues will say? Most likely that he's crazy.

People who want a career change, aren't really interested in what their former colleagues think. Not to sound like a broken record, but ive-league-ness, science and medical background, are things that are pretty irrelevant. Plenty of people hold those identities and are a complete crock of shit.

So to sum up your view: you're saying it's hormones, but he wanted a career change (from being a very well surgeon who also served on academic boards) so he made up "faith healing" to lose it all and gain notoriety, attention, money, prestige, respect (as if he didn't have it) from the book?

Yes, NDE's are due primarily to hormone surges.

As for this author, well, significantly stranger things have been known to happen... (brb, gonna go walk on water and turn water into wine and create a universe in 6 days)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: being Harvard educated/employed and being a doctor does not make someone more valid than someone who is not. Using those labels as credentials is incredibly useless.

in the context it is relevant. For a doctor and scientist to admit to having an experience with God and believing in God is a big step imo.

For the love of all that is decent, would people please clarify which god they're talking about? There are an awful lot of them. Specifying is of the utmost relevance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: being Harvard educated/employed and being a doctor does not make someone more valid than someone who is not. Using those labels as credentials is incredibly useless.

in the context it is relevant. For a doctor and scientist to admit to having an experience with God and believing in God is a big step imo.

For the love of all that is decent, would people please clarify which god they're talking about? There are an awful lot of them. Specifying is of the utmost relevance.

There is only one.

Read the book. He did not see God but came very close to it and felt its presence. He said it wss the most beautiful feeling in the world to be there. He also said God loves each of us and our fears about loosing connection with God are groundless. It's impossible, we are always connected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: being Harvard educated/employed and being a doctor does not make someone more valid than someone who is not. Using those labels as credentials is incredibly useless.

in the context it is relevant. For a doctor and scientist to admit to having an experience with God and believing in God is a big step imo.

For the love of all that is decent, would people please clarify which god they're talking about? There are an awful lot of them. Specifying is of the utmost relevance.

There is only one.

Read the book. He did not see God but came very close to it and felt its presence. He said it wss the most beautiful feeling in the world to be there. He also said God loves each of us and our fears about loosing connection with God are groundless. It's impossible, we are always connected.

This is true. Please read the book before commenting further. There's no point in fighting over definitions or Eben's motivations if you haven't read the book. I found it ecumenical and sent to to friends of all religious backgrounds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not a Christian in the accepted sense of the word, but I don't believe that true Christianity teaches this.

Then how do you know what it teaches?

Christian education, religion courses and lots of reading. I think of true Christianity as following Jesus, who modeled radical love and acceptance. I don't accept atonement theology, don't believe Christianity is about going to hell for bad deeds, etc. You cut off my response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: being Harvard educated/employed and being a doctor does not make someone more valid than someone who is not. Using those labels as credentials is incredibly useless.

in the context it is relevant. For a doctor and scientist to admit to having an experience with God and believing in God is a big step imo.

For the love of all that is decent, would people please clarify which god they're talking about? There are an awful lot of them. Specifying is of the utmost relevance.

There is only one.

Read the book. He did not see God but came very close to it and felt its presence. He said it wss the most beautiful feeling in the world to be there. He also said God loves each of us and our fears about loosing connection with God are groundless. It's impossible, we are always connected.

That's just the thing. These kinds of "experiences" are always conditioned by our own wants/needs/fears/definitions/etc. Just like dreaming, but like dreaming on steroids - the body's natural calming and soothing mechanism of hormone releases upon death.

That said, I have no problem with his story, or believing his story, if it brings you or him comfort. It sounds like a nice story. But it's still just an anecdote; and anecdotes are not science or proof.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: It sounds like a nice story. But it's still just an anecdote; and anecdotes are not science or proof.

So when you die will it be an anecdote or truth?