It's official: CogAT scores are not age-adjusted this year!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes to question 1 and I clearly stated "at best you could normalize the test for the fat, but no guarantee there would be any statistical significance in the need to age adjust." Whats your verbal score?

Not OP.

So you are saying that the deviation between oldest and youngest in Fairfax County would be significantly different than the deviation between oldest and youngest in national tests which show several points of adjustment? What is the is the basis to presume the bell curve in FF County is tighter than the national curve?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One saying is that boys' development is slower than girls'. Do we need a gender-adjusted score too?

What about late bloomers? How can we adjust for that?

You can apply for AAP every year.

So as all the people here complaining the non-age-adjusted score.
If there is research saying that the age difference won't be as much as a significant factor by 4th grade, they can apply by 3rd grade, 4th grade, 5th grade.
As parents, we look for education that suits our kids. If your kid is suitable to go AAP next year because he/she is younger, you can do it next year.

[Anonymous]

How does no guarantee = presume? I dont think I presumed anything. Ill say this...if the fcps scores were the same as national cogat scores, there would be no need to move to FAT. No reason the age adjustment might be equally uncomparable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes to question 1 and I clearly stated "at best you could normalize the test for the fat, but no guarantee there would be any statistical significance in the need to age adjust." Whats your verbal score?

Not OP.

So you are saying that the deviation between oldest and youngest in Fairfax County would be significantly different than the deviation between oldest and youngest in national tests which show several points of adjustment? What is the is the basis to presume the bell curve in FF County is tighter than the national curve?

Where did you get the number "several point of adjustment"? We didn't get the raw scores, so can't project based on national normed data. But for NNAT, what I know is with the SAME raw score, the normed score for 7 years old (Oct kids) and 6 years old (Sept of next year) could be diff for 1 standard deviation or more. Depends on where you are, 1 standard deviation could be 36%, 12% or just less than 1% in percentile. If the kid's score is near 100 (50% average kid), 1 standard deviation means 86%-50%=36%. If the kid's score near 86% for 7 years old, same raw score could make him/her in 98% national percentile. Without raw scores published, everything is just speculating, no sound science supports it. It's crazy claim if anyone says one could adjust the percentile by view the age printed on the report.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If admission were based only on test scores, this argument would have validity.

Chill out and wait for the admission decisions before you freak out. There is an appeal process for a reason.

My child was born in July (young) and scored 93%. He was sick during the NNAT test and scored 130. Did not make the cut off. He has good grades.

We cannot afford the WISC, I cannot appeal with any new test scores. Doesn't look good for us.

If you qualify for free or reduced lunch, GMU will administer the WISC for free. Otherwise, it's around $375. I know it's tough for those in the middle, but there are ways to make up the difference. Ask grandparents, sell some stuff on Craigslist, get creative.

OP here. If we make it on the initial application that will be great. Not sure what the purpose of the pool is, if everyone can refer in anyway. My understanding is that on appeal the WISC is the key. It is unfair to me , and many of my friends that don't speak good English or understand the system to have to manage this entire process ourselves. It should be done by the school system where only those in the know, or who have money know hire to hire professionals to get a good WISC score.

Thanks to the other poster that suggested I adjust the scores myself. I am not a great at statistics and should not have to explain the test to the County. Also, asked the teacher about the recommendation form, and she said she could not discuss it with individual parents. She said I could get a copy after it is submitted. No big help there.

Actually OP, you seem to have a very good grasp of the process. Far better than me an I am an American who speaks English.

The school did do their job. They administered the test to your child. You may not like the results but that doesn't mean the school didn't do what they should.

[Anonymous]

The kids have been in the public school system for 3 years now. I would think the few months of age gap would be very minor at this point. It's not like K or 1st grade!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One saying is that boys' development is slower than girls'. Do we need a gender-adjusted score too?

What about late bloomers? How can we adjust for that?

They can re-test next year or if their teacher sees that much of a difference they will refer them to be be tested.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The kids have been in the public school system for 3 years now. I would think the few months of age gap would be very minor at this point. It's not like K or 1st grade!

The national CogAT is adjusted by month of age. Guess they disagree with your assessment, Mr. Clinical Psychologist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes to question 1 and I clearly stated "at best you could normalize the test for the fat, but no guarantee there would be any statistical significance in the need to age adjust." Whats your verbal score?

Not OP.

So you are saying that the deviation between oldest and youngest in Fairfax County would be significantly different than the deviation between oldest and youngest in national tests which show several points of adjustment? What is the is the basis to presume the bell curve in FF County is tighter than the national curve?

Where did you get the number "several point of adjustment"? We didn't get the raw scores, so can't project based on national normed data. But for NNAT, what I know is with the SAME raw score, the normed score for 7 years old (Oct kids) and 6 years old (Sept of next year) could be diff for 1 standard deviation or more. Depends on where you are, 1 standard deviation could be 36%, 12% or just less than 1% in percentile. If the kid's score is near 100 (50% average kid), 1 standard deviation means 86%-50%=36%. If the kid's score near 86% for 7 years old, same raw score could make him/her in 98% national percentile. Without raw scores published, everything is just speculating, no sound science supports it. It's crazy claim if anyone says one could adjust the percentile by view the age printed on the report.

Agreed, but it seems safe to say that the youngest would see the scores increase (%), and the oldest see them drop. So why do you think the raw scores where not provided?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How does no guarantee = presume? I dont think I presumed anything. Ill say this...if the fcps scores were the same as national cogat scores, there would be no need to move to FAT. No reason the age adjustment might be equally uncomparable.

I thought the reason the local test was used was due to the fact that FF County scored high on the national test and the scores were less distributed making it harder to differentiate between scores. By going with a sample of only FF County, they could be plotted across a curve of only County Students and show a more discernible distribution. However, it would be surprising if the the deviation in raw scores between a 7 year old versus an 8 year would show a significantly less variation than between the 7 and 8 year old on the national test. A year of additional knowledge is significant at age 7/8.

[Anonymous]

Thats basically what I said at 12:13. Its funny to me you understand that general cogat and fat scores are uncomparable yet not acknowledge that there might not even be a need to adjust for age. After all these kids are getting the same fcps education, studying the same things. As its stated numerous times, cogat/fat is not an iq test. Add in the prepping effect, and that could really nullify the age factor. Assuming an age adjustment is needed is premature. Kids in fcps, k-12 are just not comparable to the national average. The real data would be interesting to see.

[Anonymous]

I predict......that FCPS will do absolutely nothing in response to parental outrage over the administration of this custom test.

[Anonymous]

Parental outrage...population 2

[Anonymous]

Not sure I am agreeing with you. I think that most kids who were held back (red shirts) most likely have an additional year of school to speak of. It may have been an extra year of pre-school or even kindergarten. While the mean score of the County is undoubtedly above the national, I cannot believe that there is no deviation in the knowledge base and performance between those with a whole year of age difference.

Agree on the real data, once again, not sure why it was not shared.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I predict......that FCPS will do absolutely nothing in response to parental outrage over the administration of this custom test.

They will handle it the same way the Obama Administration did Benghazi. Dodge and wait for it to diffuse.