Is Basis really as hard as people think?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've Skype interviewed half a dozen BASIS Tuscon (original campus) applicants for my Ivy, which rarely has enough alum volunteers in AZ to interview all that state's applicants in person, since 2010. One witty kid, into physics and astronomy at the famous Univ. of AZ observatory, impressed me and was wait listed (and ultimately rejected). The rest were nothing special, and so were rejected outright. Around half the Blair math/sci magnet kids I interview are admitted. They tend to wow me with their eccentricity. No need for us to compare MoCo and BASIS students but colleges do it. BASIS has its strenghts, but passing comps doesn't neccessarily prepare a kid to display the intellectual curiosity, or quirkiness, elite colleges look for. Those rejected were dullards, which surprised me after all the hype on DCUM.

I'm the first to jump on the bandwagon of Basis-critique but this post is really odd. So what Ivy exactly (located in DC or operating out of DC) would put "quirkiness" at the top of the list of what they're looking for?! Either this is completely phony, or it explains why an ivy league college isn't as desirable an objective any longer, neither for parents, students, nor employees; or maybe it explains why you're spending time on DCUM to inform your recruiting decisions (as in: "I used to to this all the time but I lost my job.")?

[Anonymous]

Hey Ivy League Interviewer. Tell us what you really think about the young people who didn't make it into your school? Jeez. Remind me to not allow my children to apply to the Ivies if they graduate a lot of prigs like you. It's a big world out there, too bad you have to live it among all of us dullards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hey Ivy League Interviewer. Tell us what you really think about the young people who didn't make it into your school? Jeez. Remind me to not allow my children to apply to the Ivies if they graduate a lot of prigs like you. It's a big world out there, too bad you have to live it among all of us dullards.

Prig or not, I studied on a Pell Grant and really enjoyed talking to the astronomy kid from Tuscon, a FARMS student. He won scholarships to attend summer camps at the Univ. of AZ observatory. I plugged for him. The others seemed programmed to do well on AP exams and not much more. Ivies tend to like quirky applicants because they stand out, which helps with admissions rates no higher than 10%. The Ivies probably don't care what alum interviewers have to say anyway, unless they're on the fence about a particular applicant. MIT is no different. They love INTEL semi-finalists, finalists and winners. Look at the BASIS fall thread where grads (Cal Tech guy, Stanford guy) comment on BASIS' AP heavy approach if you're interested.

[Anonymous]

Dear Ivy Interviewer: It seems to most of us that what you've told is more a commentary about yourself and your own quirks than it is about the kids you interview.

[Anonymous]

The former chairman of INTEL is on the Board of Directors of BASIS - I'm not sure, but they might have conflict-of-interest reasons for not participating in that particular event. But, they do participate in other science-oriented competitions, and have done quite well in those.

[Anonymous]

My 7th grader at Basis was struggling last year at Latin but now getting A's and B's at Basis. Has just been selected to be a peer tutor in math. Told me yesterday, wants to be a biologist. I suspect Latin is best for creative/language-oriented kids; Basis rocks for STEM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think what you got there is a bunch of hot shot students who are motivated by challenge. Not surprising to me at all that most are A students.

My 0.02 on the original question. We have crossed BASIS-DC off the list based largely on conversations with a college friend who now teaches at the BASIS Tucson campus. Many factors in the mix, but two in particular relate directly to the OP's question.

Anecdote 1: This year many parents of Tucson 5th graders complained to the admin about high levels of stress and anxiety in their students. The admin's response was to hire a therapist to lead test anxiety workshops. This is a dealbreaker for us on a number of levels. First, why on earth are so many 5th graders suffering from anxiety? Second, in what universe is teaching coping mechanisms a reasonable response? It is like a manufacturer of a toy that tends to burn students holding workshops on how to treat burn wounds. The problem in my opinion is with the product!!! Now from what I hear BASIS DC is not yet a full-fledged BASIS since it is a starter project. So at the current watered down level it might actually be a pretty optimal environment for motivated parents with motivated kids (especially who are good at math). But the BASIS corporation is pretty insistent on product uniformity as they expand. Each campus answers to a central admin with a central curriculum and set of policies. We are making our decision on the BASIS model, not the current work in progress in DC.

Anecdote 2: Many teachers at the Tucson campus feel the focus on APs and acceleration has gone out of control. So we hear for example that many math teachers think think the Saxon program is too rigid and unforgiving (8th grade math in 5th grade, 30 questions every day, no time for stragglers to get comfortable with concepts, takes too much energy away from other classes, students hanging on only with extensive parental assistance and prodding). Math teacher also think it is a bad idea to schedule calculus for 9th grade. History teachers grumble about the inappropriateness of scheduling AP world history in 8th grade. And they all grumble about how the curriculum is designed by off-site administrators based solely on pushing more standardized tests and more acceleration, without regard to the other important elements of education.

As upper middle class educated parents we are confident that our DC will rise to the challenge of academics in due time within the "ordinary" educational system supplemented by our supportive home environment. We have a fairly negative view of an extreme focus on standardized tests (although they have a role to play), and the anxiety and lack of creativity (cram / bubble fill / repeat) that a test-based accelerated curriculum will create.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what you got there is a bunch of hot shot students who are motivated by challenge. Not surprising to me at all that most are A students.

My 0.02 on the original question. We have crossed BASIS-DC off the list based largely on conversations with a college friend who now teaches at the BASIS Tucson campus. Many factors in the mix, but two in particular relate directly to the OP's question.

Anecdote 1: This year many parents of Tucson 5th graders complained to the admin about high levels of stress and anxiety in their students. The admin's response was to hire a therapist to lead test anxiety workshops. This is a dealbreaker for us on a number of levels. First, why on earth are so many 5th graders suffering from anxiety? Second, in what universe is teaching coping mechanisms a reasonable response? It is like a manufacturer of a toy that tends to burn students holding workshops on how to treat burn wounds. The problem in my opinion is with the product!!! Now from what I hear BASIS DC is not yet a full-fledged BASIS since it is a starter project. So at the current watered down level it might actually be a pretty optimal environment for motivated parents with motivated kids (especially who are good at math). But the BASIS corporation is pretty insistent on product uniformity as they expand. Each campus answers to a central admin with a central curriculum and set of policies. We are making our decision on the BASIS model, not the current work in progress in DC.

Anecdote 2: Many teachers at the Tucson campus feel the focus on APs and acceleration has gone out of control. So we hear for example that many math teachers think think the Saxon program is too rigid and unforgiving (8th grade math in 5th grade, 30 questions every day, no time for stragglers to get comfortable with concepts, takes too much energy away from other classes, students hanging on only with extensive parental assistance and prodding). Math teacher also think it is a bad idea to schedule calculus for 9th grade. History teachers grumble about the inappropriateness of scheduling AP world history in 8th grade. And they all grumble about how the curriculum is designed by off-site administrators based solely on pushing more standardized tests and more acceleration, without regard to the other important elements of education.

As upper middle class educated parents we are confident that our DC will rise to the challenge of academics in due time within the "ordinary" educational system supplemented by our supportive home environment. We have a fairly negative view of an extreme focus on standardized tests (although they have a role to play), and the anxiety and lack of creativity (cram / bubble fill / repeat) that a test-based accelerated curriculum will create.

The Basis DC curriculum is not watered down at all. The 5th grade class is the same as at any Basis school. The 6th grade and above are slightly altered for a new school as Basis does for all new schools to take into consideration the upper grades did not start with the 5th grade curricula. I do not know of many 5th graders having anxiety attacks over testing. In fact, the kids seem happy and the parents seem happy.

As for the anecdotes from Basis teachers, I think you will always find some teachers in any school who disagree with a school's educational philosophy so I am not really impressed at all by anecdotes.

As for AP World History in 8th grade, I think the Basis curricula is designed to ease students up to that goals as well as the other AP goals. Our child's 5th grade coursework is laying the foundation now for AP World History, AP sciences, and AP math.
As for the math, Saxon 8/7 is really not that big of a jump for 5th graders especially if they are proficient in addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, and math facts. Saxon 8/7 actually reviews all of elementary math. In fact, I think most math programs simply keep kids in an elementary math holding pattern for an artifically prolonged period of time which is unnecessary IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My 7th grader at Basis was struggling last year at Latin but now getting A's and B's at Basis. Has just been selected to be a peer tutor in math. Told me yesterday, wants to be a biologist. I suspect Latin is best for creative/language-oriented kids; Basis rocks for STEM.

I agree that Basis is great for STEM but it is also great for non-STEM kids as well IMO since it has a strong offerings in history, language arts, and fine arts as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what you got there is a bunch of hot shot students who are motivated by challenge. Not surprising to me at all that most are A students.

My 0.02 on the original question. We have crossed BASIS-DC off the list based largely on conversations with a college friend who now teaches at the BASIS Tucson campus. Many factors in the mix, but two in particular relate directly to the OP's question.

...

As upper middle class educated parents we are confident that our DC will rise to the challenge of academics in due time within the "ordinary" educational system supplemented by our supportive home environment. We have a fairly negative view of an extreme focus on standardized tests (although they have a role to play), and the anxiety and lack of creativity (cram / bubble fill / repeat) that a test-based accelerated curriculum will create.

Which schools, then, are still on your list, PP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what you got there is a bunch of hot shot students who are motivated by challenge. Not surprising to me at all that most are A students.

My 0.02 on the original question. We have crossed BASIS-DC off the list based largely on conversations with a college friend who now teaches at the BASIS Tucson campus. Many factors in the mix, but two in particular relate directly to the OP's question.

Anecdote 1: This year many parents of Tucson 5th graders complained to the admin about high levels of stress and anxiety in their students. The admin's response was to hire a therapist to lead test anxiety workshops. This is a dealbreaker for us on a number of levels. First, why on earth are so many 5th graders suffering from anxiety? Second, in what universe is teaching coping mechanisms a reasonable response? It is like a manufacturer of a toy that tends to burn students holding workshops on how to treat burn wounds. The problem in my opinion is with the product!!! Now from what I hear BASIS DC is not yet a full-fledged BASIS since it is a starter project. So at the current watered down level it might actually be a pretty optimal environment for motivated parents with motivated kids (especially who are good at math). But the BASIS corporation is pretty insistent on product uniformity as they expand. Each campus answers to a central admin with a central curriculum and set of policies. We are making our decision on the BASIS model, not the current work in progress in DC.

Anecdote 2: Many teachers at the Tucson campus feel the focus on APs and acceleration has gone out of control. So we hear for example that many math teachers think think the Saxon program is too rigid and unforgiving (8th grade math in 5th grade, 30 questions every day, no time for stragglers to get comfortable with concepts, takes too much energy away from other classes, students hanging on only with extensive parental assistance and prodding). Math teacher also think it is a bad idea to schedule calculus for 9th grade. History teachers grumble about the inappropriateness of scheduling AP world history in 8th grade. And they all grumble about how the curriculum is designed by off-site administrators based solely on pushing more standardized tests and more acceleration, without regard to the other important elements of education.

As upper middle class educated parents we are confident that our DC will rise to the challenge of academics in due time within the "ordinary" educational system supplemented by our supportive home environment. We have a fairly negative view of an extreme focus on standardized tests (although they have a role to play), and the anxiety and lack of creativity (cram / bubble fill / repeat) that a test-based accelerated curriculum will create.

My sentiments exactly, though you expressed them better than I would have. The Ivy League alum interviewer sounded surprised that most the BASIS Tuscon applicants he or she met seemed robotic. I'm not. Noticed how parents of 5th graders have all the answers half a school year in? What I hear is "WE LOVE OUR DOWNTOWN LIFESTYLE SO MUCH THAT BASIS IS WORKING BRILLIANTLY FOR US AND WILL KEEP ON WORKING BRILLIANTLY AS LONG AS WE SAY IT IS."

I went to an Ivy, as did my two older siblings, as have several of their children, all of us grads of small town public schools, contrarians who avoid multiple choice tests where possible, voracious readers and inveterate travelers/backpackers. Too bad that the "ordinary" education system in the District past ES is, for the most part, is scary.

[Anonymous]

Any change, any new school, is bound to be anxiety-provoking. You mention 5th graders - no doubt the anxiety tapers off as students progress, and it becomes status-quo.

And, certainly some students will be able to rise up to the challenges, while others will not. But, if you think your child isn't cut out for BASIS, then he's probably not cut out for MIT or similar academic challenges, later. I graduate with honors out of an excellent public school in an affluent area (comparable to MoCo schools) myself, and while I was bright and studious enough to be accepted at an Ivy that I couldn't afford, I instead ended up going to a top engineering school - but found I didn't have a lot of the study habits, strong STEM grounding and other foundational skills that BASIS is instilling in students - it took me a few semesters of floundering to get up to speed. I have my own experiences and DC's current experiences to reflect upon, which are driving us to stay. BASIS is an excellent option for us, though it isn't for everyone.

I will add my +1 to the scariness of the "ordinary" DCPS system. If DC is able to rise to the challenge (and so far, DC is thriving and excelling) then so much the better to escape the scariness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:



My sentiments exactly, though you expressed them better than I would have. The Ivy League alum interviewer sounded surprised that most the BASIS Tuscon applicants he or she met seemed robotic. I'm not. Noticed how parents of 5th graders have all the answers half a school year in? What I hear is "WE LOVE OUR DOWNTOWN LIFESTYLE SO MUCH THAT BASIS IS WORKING BRILLIANTLY FOR US AND WILL KEEP ON WORKING BRILLIANTLY AS LONG AS WE SAY IT IS."

I went to an Ivy, as did my two older siblings, as have several of their children, all of us grads of small town public schools, contrarians who avoid multiple choice tests where possible, voracious readers and inveterate travelers/backpackers. Too bad that the "ordinary" education system in the District past ES is, for the most part, is scary.

Ummm, no. That is not what I say at least or others. We plan on staying in DC since we love it, and I know that I will always have other options besides DCPS for my DC if Basis were not to work out. So far, Basis has been great and it seems to me it will continue that way!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what you got there is a bunch of hot shot students who are motivated by challenge. Not surprising to me at all that most are A students.

My 0.02 on the original question. We have crossed BASIS-DC off the list based largely on conversations with a college friend who now teaches at the BASIS Tucson campus. Many factors in the mix, but two in particular relate directly to the OP's question.

...

As upper middle class educated parents we are confident that our DC will rise to the challenge of academics in due time within the "ordinary" educational system supplemented by our supportive home environment. We have a fairly negative view of an extreme focus on standardized tests (although they have a role to play), and the anxiety and lack of creativity (cram / bubble fill / repeat) that a test-based accelerated curriculum will create.

Which schools, then, are still on your list, PP?

Ha ha isn't that the million dollar question!? We have several years to fret, and all the usual suspects on the short list, but at this point its a toss-up between moving to Finland, home-schooling, or winning the lottery and going private! If your point is that despite some concerns BASIS is among the least worst free options in the DC area, I don't think I'd disagree, if only because of the type of students it tends to attract. (Although, as I stated, at this point we feel BASIS relies too much on standardized tests and acceleration for acceleration's sake, which is a deal breaker for us.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:



My sentiments exactly, though you expressed them better than I would have. The Ivy League alum interviewer sounded surprised that most the BASIS Tuscon applicants he or she met seemed robotic. I'm not. Noticed how parents of 5th graders have all the answers half a school year in? What I hear is "WE LOVE OUR DOWNTOWN LIFESTYLE SO MUCH THAT BASIS IS WORKING BRILLIANTLY FOR US AND WILL KEEP ON WORKING BRILLIANTLY AS LONG AS WE SAY IT IS."

I went to an Ivy, as did my two older siblings, as have several of their children, all of us grads of small town public schools, contrarians who avoid multiple choice tests where possible, voracious readers and inveterate travelers/backpackers. Too bad that the "ordinary" education system in the District past ES is, for the most part, is scary.

Ummm, no. That is not what I say at least or others. We plan on staying in DC since we love it, and I know that I will always have other options besides DCPS for my DC if Basis were not to work out. So far, Basis has been great and it seems to me it will continue that way!

Hear, hear! +1