What exactly is wrong with the mcmansion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like the idea of everyone trying to live as economically (space-wise) as possible so we don't end up building over the entire planet. So the McMansion thing just bothers me. I guess it seems superfluous and greedy and inefficient. I would rather see cities with mass transit and lots of open parkland around them.

Here is what you want, soviet style, everyone has the same amount of efficient space and mass transit

Well, no, not exactly. I'm just trying to answer the question posed honestly. Say I get a few pizzas for my kid's birthday party. I'm not going to give every kid some cruddy 1/4 slice. They can have how much they want, depending on how hungry they are. But if some kid takes a whole pizza for himself, I'm going to assume he's taking more than he needs and feel annoyed. That's how I feel about people who live in giant houses--nobody needs that much space. It feels greedy and I just don't get it.

except that the pizza is shared between children, property purchase boundaries are specific to each house so your example doesn't make sense unless you equate a common owner of the property giving equal shares of a single real estate which would equate a socialistic government giving equal shares to each citizen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what is a rambler?

Um my rambler certainly does NOT look like that.

A rambler is a home where most of the bedrooms and bathrooms, kitchen, living room, etc., are on the first floor. Then there is a basement or bottom floor.

FWIW my rambler has 5 bedrooms and 3 full baths and is quite spacious. We like horizontal living as opposed to a colonial style.

Actually, that is more like a Cape Cod than a traditional rambler. And I disagree with the PP, ramblers are typically one-story homes where the rooms spread out and "ramble" across a bigger footprint than the same square footage in a multi-floor home. Ramblers are usually single-floor living and do not include basements or additional floors. My family has owned a lot of ramblers over the years and very few of them included a basement. But then, my siblings live in Texas and my parents live in Florida both places where basements are less common.

For some examples/photos, see the Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranch-style_house

Rambler pp here. yes I think you could call our house a rambler or rancher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So beyond their contributions to sprawl, it's that they're shoddily built (expensive, yes, but still shoddy). The McMansion style is pretty much the same from Delaware to Texas to Oregon, with some style slight regional variations. They're environmental monsters - great rooms, movie rooms, great halls, etc., are difficult to heat, cool light, etc. The rooms and layouts aren't particularly useful, i.e., 1/2 the floor space on the main floor is given over to a vast, formal living room that no one ever uses, plus it goes up two floors, meaning that the bedrooms are large closets. They play poorly with their neighbors in established neighborhoods (cough cough North Arlington cough cough), and they don't add much to Suburbia, either.

I could go on, but you get the point. To PP who rather naively assumes it's all just jealousy, I wouldn't mind having a larger house than our 1500 square foot TH some day, but I'd rather eat dirt at every meal before living in a McMansion.

While the McMansions of the 90's and early 2000's may have all be fairly uniformly shoddy in construction, now there's a good variety of construction. Some builders and some neighborhoods are significantly better constructed than others. So now, McMansions have the same variation as older homes, some constructed well, some constructed poorly, some are environmentally poor and others are actually environmentally quite good and often more environmentally friendly that quite a number of older homes. And since rooms and layouts vary as much as older homes between closed designs and open designs, homes with more smaller rooms and homes with fewer larger rooms, it's very hard to generalize the McMansion any more. Your description above is very dated and only descriptive of a subset of today's McMansions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Actually, that is more like a Cape Cod than a traditional rambler. And I disagree with the PP, ramblers are typically one-story homes where the rooms spread out and "ramble" across a bigger footprint than the same square footage in a multi-floor home. Ramblers are usually single-floor living and do not include basements or additional floors. My family has owned a lot of ramblers over the years and very few of them included a basement. But then, my siblings live in Texas and my parents live in Florida both places where basements are less common.

For some examples/photos, see the Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranch-style_house

Rambler pp here. yes I think you could call our house a rambler or rancher.

Sorry, I was disagreeing with your addition of a basement or bottom floor. Otherwise, we're on the same page. And y our description of 5 rooms and horizontal living definitely fit the classic definition of a house that "rambles" hence a rambler. Sounds a lot like my brother's home in Houston.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You're making the point that shoddy construction isn't a new thing? Thanks, I guess.

My 1908 rowhouse is quiet inside. Solid wood everywhere. We're one of those families who doesn't need to turn on the heat or AC until weeks after others do. The house is inviting and comfortable, with the right amount of space in each room for family use. True, when we entertain, things get a little cramped. But that's what, every other month or so? No big deal.

And as for "jealousy", as a PP said, if I sold my DC rowhouse, I could buy a giant cardboard box in the burbs and have money left over for a full-sized SUV and top-to-bottom Pottery Barn. Ain't gonna do it, though. I have more to add, but it's time for me to stroll two blocks with my granny cart to the grocery store. And I can't later, either, because I'm meeting friends at the restaurant a block away, unless we decide to go further afield, in which case I'll walk two blocks to the metro.

I think you protest too much. A 1908 rowhouse is vulnerable at any time to noisy neighbors, regardless of the quality of the masonry. You also likely have a small family/living room, one place to eat, and none of the amenities that most families, given a choice, would prefer. If you sold your DC rowhouse, you could not readily afford a newer home in a close-in suburb like Bethesda, Arlington or McLean. They cost considerably more. Instead, you'd be relegated to another older house or a newer house many miles from DC. And, I can't imagine wanting to limit myself to restaurants within walking distance of the Metro, when so many of the area's best - and most enjoyable - restaurants are outside the city.

Net net - you want to advertise your good taste, but just end up coming across as small-minded and parochial.

Exactly!

[Anonymous]

What's the difference between a rancher and a rambler?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So beyond their contributions to sprawl, it's that they're shoddily built (expensive, yes, but still shoddy). The McMansion style is pretty much the same from Delaware to Texas to Oregon, with some style slight regional variations. They're environmental monsters - great rooms, movie rooms, great halls, etc., are difficult to heat, cool light, etc. The rooms and layouts aren't particularly useful, i.e., 1/2 the floor space on the main floor is given over to a vast, formal living room that no one ever uses, plus it goes up two floors, meaning that the bedrooms are large closets. They play poorly with their neighbors in established neighborhoods (cough cough North Arlington cough cough), and they don't add much to Suburbia, either.

I could go on, but you get the point. To PP who rather naively assumes it's all just jealousy, I wouldn't mind having a larger house than our 1500 square foot TH some day, but I'd rather eat dirt at every meal before living in a McMansion.

While the McMansions of the 90's and early 2000's may have all be fairly uniformly shoddy in construction, now there's a good variety of construction. Some builders and some neighborhoods are significantly better constructed than others. So now, McMansions have the same variation as older homes, some constructed well, some constructed poorly, some are environmentally poor and others are actually environmentally quite good and often more environmentally friendly that quite a number of older homes. And since rooms and layouts vary as much as older homes between closed designs and open designs, homes with more smaller rooms and homes with fewer larger rooms, it's very hard to generalize the McMansion any more. Your description above is very dated and only descriptive of a subset of today's McMansions.

I think this defines the term McMansion so broadly as to make it meaningless. I think something is only a McMansion if, in addition to being large, it has pathological aspects of at least some of the following elements: poor quality construction, poor design/taste, significantly overbuilt for lot size, grossly out of scale or character to neighborhood. Not all 5000 square foot houses are McMansions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like the idea of everyone trying to live as economically (space-wise) as possible so we don't end up building over the entire planet. So the McMansion thing just bothers me. I guess it seems superfluous and greedy and inefficient. I would rather see cities with mass transit and lots of open parkland around them.

Here is what you want, soviet style, everyone has the same amount of efficient space and mass transit

Well, no, not exactly. I'm just trying to answer the question posed honestly. Say I get a few pizzas for my kid's birthday party. I'm not going to give every kid some cruddy 1/4 slice. They can have how much they want, depending on how hungry they are. But if some kid takes a whole pizza for himself, I'm going to assume he's taking more than he needs and feel annoyed. That's how I feel about people who live in giant houses--nobody needs that much space. It feels greedy and I just don't get it.

except that the pizza is shared between children, property purchase boundaries are specific to each house so your example doesn't make sense unless you equate a common owner of the property giving equal shares of a single real estate which would equate a socialistic government giving equal shares to each citizen.

It was a crude example, I admit. We don't share property, but we do share the planet and its resources. But, really, I was trying to explain a feeling. If you don't really get it, then you don't get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are generally ugly monstrosities that require too much energy to heat and cool, etc etc. You're taking a lovely country drive through VA when - BAM! Here are some ugly-ass McMansions ruining the view with their cheap-looking, cookie-cutter construction. Barf.

Again, the new construction 3000 sqrft homes have the same or lower energy costs to heat and cool then the older non efficient homes half their size.

Cheap is subjective but if you look at insurance replacement costs for an older home and a new larger home the new home will cost more to build even taking into account the doubling of size. And who takes a country drive through VA? Where are you going that is the country?

Um, Middleburg? Hiking in the Blue Ridge? Wine tasting? Get out much?

[Anonymous]

I don't mind them. I don't even mind the mish-mash of architectural styles. When I was looking at '50s ramblers I couldn't imagine living in them, I couldn't imagine cooking in a kitchen with no real counter space, I couldn't imagine living with a master bath smaller than the bath in my 1 br apartment, or closets smaller than the closets in my 1 br apartment. We chose to get a larger home in a much less desirable area, and I'm very happy with it. I don't think it's a mcmansion because it's very atttractive imo and it's large, but not huge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You're making the point that shoddy construction isn't a new thing? Thanks, I guess.

My 1908 rowhouse is quiet inside. Solid wood everywhere. We're one of those families who doesn't need to turn on the heat or AC until weeks after others do. The house is inviting and comfortable, with the right amount of space in each room for family use. True, when we entertain, things get a little cramped. But that's what, every other month or so? No big deal.

And as for "jealousy", as a PP said, if I sold my DC rowhouse, I could buy a giant cardboard box in the burbs and have money left over for a full-sized SUV and top-to-bottom Pottery Barn. Ain't gonna do it, though. I have more to add, but it's time for me to stroll two blocks with my granny cart to the grocery store. And I can't later, either, because I'm meeting friends at the restaurant a block away, unless we decide to go further afield, in which case I'll walk two blocks to the metro.

I think you protest too much. A 1908 rowhouse is vulnerable at any time to noisy neighbors, regardless of the quality of the masonry. You also likely have a small family/living room, one place to eat, and none of the amenities that most families, given a choice, would prefer. If you sold your DC rowhouse, you could not readily afford a newer home in a close-in suburb like Bethesda, Arlington or McLean. They cost considerably more. Instead, you'd be relegated to another older house or a newer house many miles from DC. And, I can't imagine wanting to limit myself to restaurants within walking distance of the Metro, when so many of the area's best - and most enjoyable - restaurants are outside the city.

Net net - you want to advertise your good taste, but just end up coming across as small-minded and parochial.

Why is someone who values living in a different kind of community "small-minded and parochial?" Methinks YOU doth protest too much. But nice try.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You're making the point that shoddy construction isn't a new thing? Thanks, I guess.

My 1908 rowhouse is quiet inside. Solid wood everywhere. We're one of those families who doesn't need to turn on the heat or AC until weeks after others do. The house is inviting and comfortable, with the right amount of space in each room for family use. True, when we entertain, things get a little cramped. But that's what, every other month or so? No big deal.

And as for "jealousy", as a PP said, if I sold my DC rowhouse, I could buy a giant cardboard box in the burbs and have money left over for a full-sized SUV and top-to-bottom Pottery Barn. Ain't gonna do it, though. I have more to add, but it's time for me to stroll two blocks with my granny cart to the grocery store. And I can't later, either, because I'm meeting friends at the restaurant a block away, unless we decide to go further afield, in which case I'll walk two blocks to the metro.

I think you protest too much. A 1908 rowhouse is vulnerable at any time to noisy neighbors, regardless of the quality of the masonry. You also likely have a small family/living room, one place to eat, and none of the amenities that most families, given a choice, would prefer. If you sold your DC rowhouse, you could not readily afford a newer home in a close-in suburb like Bethesda, Arlington or McLean. They cost considerably more. Instead, you'd be relegated to another older house or a newer house many miles from DC. And, I can't imagine wanting to limit myself to restaurants within walking distance of the Metro, when so many of the area's best - and most enjoyable - restaurants are outside the city.

Net net - you want to advertise your good taste, but just end up coming across as small-minded and parochial.

Do you live on the moon? Even SFH have neighbors. You might not share walls, but you share neighbors. One block, one wall - loud is loud.

[Anonymous]

I think people have different ideas of what a McM is:

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMansion

"The widespread disdain for the McMansion stems from perceptions that these houses look and feel inappropriate for a given neighborhood, are wasteful in terms of space (too much room for too few people) and resources (building materials, electricity, gas), project the pretentiousness (or lack of taste or refinement) of their owners, and a general discordance in architectural preferences. McMansions often mix a bewildering variety of architectural styles and elements, combining quoins, steeply sloped roofs, multiple roof lines, complicated massing and pronounced dormers, all producing what some consider an unpleasant jumbled appearance. The builder may have attempted to achieve expensive effects with cheap materials, skimped on details, or hidden defects with cladding. Though construction quality may be subpar and materials shoddy (from faux stucco to styrofoam crown molding and travertine compounded from epoxied marble dust), McMansion buyers are eager... "mostly young, mobile, career-oriented, high-salaried 30- and 40-something individuals" who are too time-squeezed to hire an architect but seek "a luxury home" that they might soon (and easily) sell whenever "it's time to move on."

Not all big new homes are McMs, obviously But some are, and McMs are truly horrible -- and you know a McM when you see one. It's not jealousy -- it's just being fair to a simple sense of aesthetics.

I would never trade my smaller, older home for a McM. I would, however, trade it for a newer home that is well built, architecturally correct, and appropriate for the lot and neighborhood -- and close in with a very short commute. Those kinds of homes are, however, too expensive for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You're making the point that shoddy construction isn't a new thing? Thanks, I guess.

My 1908 rowhouse is quiet inside. Solid wood everywhere. We're one of those families who doesn't need to turn on the heat or AC until weeks after others do. The house is inviting and comfortable, with the right amount of space in each room for family use. True, when we entertain, things get a little cramped. But that's what, every other month or so? No big deal.

And as for "jealousy", as a PP said, if I sold my DC rowhouse, I could buy a giant cardboard box in the burbs and have money left over for a full-sized SUV and top-to-bottom Pottery Barn. Ain't gonna do it, though. I have more to add, but it's time for me to stroll two blocks with my granny cart to the grocery store. And I can't later, either, because I'm meeting friends at the restaurant a block away, unless we decide to go further afield, in which case I'll walk two blocks to the metro.

I think you protest too much. A 1908 rowhouse is vulnerable at any time to noisy neighbors, regardless of the quality of the masonry. You also likely have a small family/living room, one place to eat, and none of the amenities that most families, given a choice, would prefer. If you sold your DC rowhouse, you could not readily afford a newer home in a close-in suburb like Bethesda, Arlington or McLean. They cost considerably more. Instead, you'd be relegated to another older house or a newer house many miles from DC. And, I can't imagine wanting to limit myself to restaurants within walking distance of the Metro, when so many of the area's best - and most enjoyable - restaurants are outside the city.

Net net - you want to advertise your good taste, but just end up coming across as small-minded and parochial.

Why is someone who values living in a different kind of community "small-minded and parochial?" Methinks YOU doth protest too much. But nice try.

Read your post and you'll have your answer. Or, better yet, impale yourself on your granny cart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Do you live on the moon? Even SFH have neighbors. You might not share walls, but you share neighbors. One block, one wall - loud is loud.

Someone in an attached rowhouse is far more likely to be burdened by a next-door neighbor's noise than someone in a SFH. You're a moron to suggest otherwise.