Failing Schools Almost Impossible to "Turnaround"

[Anonymous]

some would say that concentrating the middle-class in DC is not doing them any favors, either, given the bad schools in DC and the apparent inability to improve them, despite huge reform efforts.

Perhaps you didn't know that poor people came to DC of their own free will and like it here and do not wish to be "concentrated" elsewhere to make room for middle class families eager to move into a convenient urban environment.

It's fascinating how you can make it sound reasonable for them to move out, so you can move in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many middle-class AA families living in affordable neighborhoods in DC and want to stay for the same reason white people do.

There are poverty-stricken people living in the DC suburbs too whose schools are just as bad as the ones in DC. We just hear about them less but they are not part of the "reform" movement.

Moving poor people out of DC may help with gentrification and better schools, but it won't help the poor people who left.

That's quite debatable. With housing vouchers people have the chance to start anew. And while, yes, there are poor people in the suburbs, there are nothing like the concentrations you see in the inner city.

What's not debatable is that concentrating poor people in DC is not doing them any favors. There's more capacity for the poor in the suburbs. There's not in DC.

How would they get around. Not sure the burbs have sufficient mass transit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:some would say that concentrating the middle-class in DC is not doing them any favors, either, given the bad schools in DC and the apparent inability to improve them, despite huge reform efforts.

Perhaps you didn't know that poor people came to DC of their own free will and like it here and do not wish to be "concentrated" elsewhere to make room for middle class families eager to move into a convenient urban environment.

It's fascinating how you can make it sound reasonable for them to move out, so you can move in.

And yet...give those poor folks middle-class jobs and they're off to a house in the suburbs the second they've got money in the bank. The only reason the very poor stay in cockroach and bedbug ridden tenement apartments in the city is inertia. Give them the opportunity to rent a decent house in the burbs and they're gone.

As far as your snide point about "concentrating the middle-class": Haven't you heard? Poverty sucks. And being poor sucks. Concentrating the middle-class amplifies its virtues. Concentrating the poor amplifies poverty's horrors. If we want to get people out of poverty, the first step is to stop fetishizing poverty culture.

The return of the middle-class to DC is the greatest thing to happen to DC since the black middle-class moved out en masse over the 70s and 80s. It's absolutely the only hope for a decent education for DCs poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's nonsense. 80% of DC is not in deep poverty. And even so, poverty does not have to automatically correlate with poor school performance - take for example latinos and immigrants who arrive as refugees from horrible conditions and deep poverty - typically they close the performance and income gap within a single generation.

As for affordable housing, what is forcing poor families to stay in DC? It's obviously not for work. And if we are supposed to consider that it's for family or community, consider that family and community is the biggest part of what is contributing to poor performance and continued poverty.

If you don't get it you don't get it. As the previous poster noted, poverty "in general" is closely related to a number of factors. Lack of education, absent parents, lack of resources, hunger, lack of healthcare (illness and poor nutrition cause frequent absences and lack of healthcare in elementary grades often lead to undiagnosed health/SpEd issues). Children of immigrants cannot be compared to low SES children because many immigrants are not low SES, they maybe in their new adopted country but at the school where my child goes many of them had middle-class jobs in their country. There are many African children whose parents are driving cabs that were teachers and professors in their country, they also came here so their children could have the opportunity for a better education. There are huge differences in educational success between the children of refugees that come from countries of high literacy and those that don't, overall the children from El Salvador that had intermittent education are not doing well. Many of their parents are illiterate, we even have children who are not highly literate in Spanish. Many Americans lump all immigrant, refugees and ELLs together but statistics show that family literacy and poverty play a huge role. Additionally, many families in NW who are low income live with multiple generations and relatives to afford the rents or have moved to Maryland. There are many domestics in my school, do you really think they can afford the astronomical rents in DC? If the parents are absent, often traveling as far as Baltimore to clean - who do you think is looking after the children and making sure they do their homework. If they themselves don't speak English, how can they help? Of course, they want a better life for their children and support their child's education but poverty plays a huge role in many ways as it does for all low-SES children native or otherwise.

This is a bunch of utter and compete bullcrap. People come to America from abject poverty, suppression, dictatorships, persecution and illiteracy in the third world, and through hard work, they find they can make it here in America. Yet people who were born here end up not even trying, and turn around and blame the system, blame their own parents, blame blame blame. Whose fault is absent parents? The parents themselves. Whose fault is all the rest? It's 99% on the parents. Blaming no longer cuts it.

Yeah, all immigrants are successful!!! Bull, try working as a social worker for a day in DC and Maryland. You don't know what you're talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many middle-class AA families living in affordable neighborhoods in DC and want to stay for the same reason white people do.

There are poverty-stricken people living in the DC suburbs too whose schools are just as bad as the ones in DC. We just hear about them less but they are not part of the "reform" movement.

Moving poor people out of DC may help with gentrification and better schools, but it won't help the poor people who left.

That's quite debatable. With housing vouchers people have the chance to start anew. And while, yes, there are poor people in the suburbs, there are nothing like the concentrations you see in the inner city.

What's not debatable is that concentrating poor people in DC is not doing them any favors. There's more capacity for the poor in the suburbs. There's not in DC.

How would they get around. Not sure the burbs have sufficient mass transit.

This is a common critique. But it's not clear the marginally better public transportation in the city compensates for the much greater distance from job opportunities. Bus service in the close in areas of MD and VA is on par with service in poor area of DC.

[Anonymous]

I'll say it - DC's policies are precisely why many of the poor have remained in DC. DC government has historically acted as an enabler, with welfare for life, public housing and many other programs that made it possible for a great many otherwise capable and able-bodied people to not have to try hard, not have to educate themselves or equip themselves with necessary skills, and not have to work if they didn't want to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'll say it - DC's policies are precisely why many of the poor have remained in DC. DC government has historically acted as an enabler, with welfare for life, public housing and many other programs that made it possible for a great many otherwise capable and able-bodied people to not have to try hard, not have to educate themselves or equip themselves with necessary skills, and not have to work if they didn't want to.

Which is why it should be District policy to give generous housing vouchers to the needy. They'll use them to move to the suburbs where the jobs are, and where the super-functional school systems are.

Add to this that suburbanites have got the whole poverty thing figured out, and it's a guaranteed recipe for success. I mean, we bleeding-heart liberals in the District have thought these problems were deeply-rooted and intractable, but have had to live with a half century of hearing our suburban neighbors crowing about how poverty is extremely simple to solve--just make 'em work.

Well, with the gentrification of the city and the continuing suburbanization of poverty, it's looking increasingly like our suburban neighbors are going to get a chance to show us how it's done. I for one am looking forward to getting the chance to see them work their magic!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many middle-class AA families living in affordable neighborhoods in DC and want to stay for the same reason white people do.

There are poverty-stricken people living in the DC suburbs too whose schools are just as bad as the ones in DC. We just hear about them less but they are not part of the "reform" movement.

Moving poor people out of DC may help with gentrification and better schools, but it won't help the poor people who left.

That's quite debatable. With housing vouchers people have the chance to start anew. And while, yes, there are poor people in the suburbs, there are nothing like the concentrations you see in the inner city.

What's not debatable is that concentrating poor people in DC is not doing them any favors. There's more capacity for the poor in the suburbs. There's not in DC.

How would they get around. Not sure the burbs have sufficient mass transit.

This is a common critique. But it's not clear the marginally better public transportation in the city compensates for the much greater distance from job opportunities. Bus service in the close in areas of MD and VA is on par with service in poor area of DC.

Marginally better? What nearby county has even close to as comprehensive transit as DC? Not saying DC is perfect, but you can easily live anywhere in DC and het where you need to go. What county can you live as easily without a car?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many middle-class AA families living in affordable neighborhoods in DC and want to stay for the same reason white people do.

There are poverty-stricken people living in the DC suburbs too whose schools are just as bad as the ones in DC. We just hear about them less but they are not part of the "reform" movement.

Moving poor people out of DC may help with gentrification and better schools, but it won't help the poor people who left.

That's quite debatable. With housing vouchers people have the chance to start anew. And while, yes, there are poor people in the suburbs, there are nothing like the concentrations you see in the inner city.

What's not debatable is that concentrating poor people in DC is not doing them any favors. There's more capacity for the poor in the suburbs. There's not in DC.

How would they get around. Not sure the burbs have sufficient mass transit.

This is a common critique. But it's not clear the marginally better public transportation in the city compensates for the much greater distance from job opportunities. Bus service in the close in areas of MD and VA is on par with service in poor area of DC.

Marginally better? What nearby county has even close to as comprehensive transit as DC? Not saying DC is perfect, but you can easily live anywhere in DC and het where you need to go. What county can you live as easily without a car?

Sure, but the point isn't which location has more comprehensive transit. There are plenty of places in the poorest parts of DC where walk ability is as bad as in Montgomery County or NoVa. And people use buses to get around just fine. Having a good walk score and living in DC doesn't cout for much if all the jobs are in Gaithersburg. That is unless you plan on staying on welfare your entire life.

[Anonymous]

If the burbs are so great, why aren't more white folks heading there, instead of wanting to stay in DC. How do you know the suburbs are better for those people, but not for you?

Perhaps you want them out, so it will be more pleasant here for you. As for the "they'd be better off" business, it's not for you to say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the burbs are so great, why aren't more white folks heading there, instead of wanting to stay in DC. How do you know the suburbs are better for those people, but not for you?

Perhaps you want them out, so it will be more pleasant here for you. As for the "they'd be better off" business, it's not for you to say.

The majority of white folks in the region *are* buying houses in the suburbs. And the people who are buying houses in the city are actually quite diverse--certainly the city is becoming more diverse by the day.

As far as the question "for whom is it to say" where people live, if you're paying your own way, obviously you get to choose where you live. If you're relying on public assistance, then it's a question of public policy where you're going to live. Which means it *is* up to me (and you) to say. As DC gentrifies, that question is going to be answered rationally instead of with passion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the burbs are so great, why aren't more white folks heading there, instead of wanting to stay in DC. How do you know the suburbs are better for those people, but not for you?

Perhaps you want them out, so it will be more pleasant here for you. As for the "they'd be better off" business, it's not for you to say.

Ridiculous. Lots of white folks do already live in the 'burbs. But some of them work at jobs in DC and are tired of the commute, so that's why they want to move into DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:some would say that concentrating the middle-class in DC is not doing them any favors, either, given the bad schools in DC and the apparent inability to improve them, despite huge reform efforts.

Perhaps you didn't know that poor people came to DC of their own free will and like it here and do not wish to be "concentrated" elsewhere to make room for middle class families eager to move into a convenient urban environment.

It's fascinating how you can make it sound reasonable for them to move out, so you can move in.

Sure, DC historically had welfare for life. A place where you can go and not have to work. A magnet for lazy folks, just let everyone else carry your dead weight. But, that's a function of policy - and fortunately, policy can (and likely will) change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the burbs are so great, why aren't more white folks heading there, instead of wanting to stay in DC. How do you know the suburbs are better for those people, but not for you?

Perhaps you want them out, so it will be more pleasant here for you. As for the "they'd be better off" business, it's not for you to say.

Ridiculous. Lots of white folks do already live in the 'burbs. But some of them work at jobs in DC and are tired of the commute, so that's why they want to move into DC.

I know, and apparently some of them expect the black folks to move out so they can buy their DC houses, fumigate them and live a walking/metro lifestyle, while the black folks take on the commute, or just veg or find work in the suburbs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:some would say that concentrating the middle-class in DC is not doing them any favors, either, given the bad schools in DC and the apparent inability to improve them, despite huge reform efforts.

Perhaps you didn't know that poor people came to DC of their own free will and like it here and do not wish to be "concentrated" elsewhere to make room for middle class families eager to move into a convenient urban environment.

It's fascinating how you can make it sound reasonable for them to move out, so you can move in.

Sure, DC historically had welfare for life. A place where you can go and not have to work. A magnet for lazy folks, just let everyone else carry your dead weight. But, that's a function of policy - and fortunately, policy can (and likely will) change.

So, when the poor black people are forced out of DC because of policy changes that deny welfare, will there be some form of sustenance for them in the suburbs where they are reconcentrated, or will they just be left to starve to death while their former homes are taken over by gentrifiers?