Boss-led "fellowship" with prayer "...in Jesus Christ, our lord's name Amen"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every agency has an ethics officer and should have an anonymous ethics help/tip line. Call, don't leave your name, describe the praying and the food catered by coworker's side business. The ethics people are obligated to investigate and kick it up to the IG.

Yeah, it seems like the catering has potential to be more questionable than an employee led pre-breakfast prayer (though again, it is a line I don't think should be crossed). If they're getting paid, an employee shouldn't be enriching their coffers to cater at their gov't office. But would it be unethical if they weren't paying and the person was just cooking? Do you know that the person is getting paid or did you just assume?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every agency has an ethics officer and should have an anonymous ethics help/tip line. Call, don't leave your name, describe the praying and the food catered by coworker's side business. The ethics people are obligated to investigate and kick it up to the IG.

I bet you make friends easily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every agency has an ethics officer and should have an anonymous ethics help/tip line. Call, don't leave your name, describe the praying and the food catered by coworker's side business. The ethics people are obligated to investigate and kick it up to the IG.

I bet you make friends easily.

Don't be an ass. This is what ethics officers are for. Either it is inappropriate or should be stopped, or the ethics officer will tell OP it's fine, and then she will at least have that peace of mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every agency has an ethics officer and should have an anonymous ethics help/tip line. Call, don't leave your name, describe the praying and the food catered by coworker's side business. The ethics people are obligated to investigate and kick it up to the IG.

I bet you make friends easily.

Don't be an ass. This is what ethics officers are for. Either it is inappropriate or should be stopped, or the ethics officer will tell OP it's fine, and then she will at least have that peace of mind.

OP says it happened "less than a month ago", if it was that offensive it should have been reported then. Do you really need a month's time to contemplate if you were offended?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every agency has an ethics officer and should have an anonymous ethics help/tip line. Call, don't leave your name, describe the praying and the food catered by coworker's side business. The ethics people are obligated to investigate and kick it up to the IG.

I bet you make friends easily.

Don't be an ass. This is what ethics officers are for. Either it is inappropriate or should be stopped, or the ethics officer will tell OP it's fine, and then she will at least have that peace of mind.

OP says it happened "less than a month ago", if it was that offensive it should have been reported then. Do you really need a month's time to contemplate if you were offended?

I am not aware of expiration dates with regard to government ethics violations.

[Anonymous]

Not to side track, but the whole department was there and OP was the only white person there? So are you the only white person in your entire department, OP? Not that it masters, of course.

[Anonymous]

I'm more interested in whether the OP is the only new person in the department. If the Ethics Officer starts investigating right after OP joined, it would be pretty obvious who made the call. Instead of going behind her boss' back but everybody knows it was her, maybe it would be safer for OP to talk directly to the boss about her concerns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every agency has an ethics officer and should have an anonymous ethics help/tip line. Call, don't leave your name, describe the praying and the food catered by coworker's side business. The ethics people are obligated to investigate and kick it up to the IG.

I bet you make friends easily.

Don't be an ass. This is what ethics officers are for. Either it is inappropriate or should be stopped, or the ethics officer will tell OP it's fine, and then she will at least have that peace of mind.

OP says it happened "less than a month ago", if it was that offensive it should have been reported then. Do you really need a month's time to contemplate if you were offended?

I am not aware of expiration dates with regard to government ethics violations.

How is it an ethics violation? Read the links posted previously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gov. office. My second day. Employees gathered in conference room middle of the morning. Boss says we are taking time for "fellowship" and hands the floor over to another employee to "lead us in prayer" which concluded with "... in Jesus Christ, our lord's name. Amen." Then there was food catered by one of the employees who does this as a side business.

I grew up Christian (i.e. Catholic), go to church infrequently, and am not a strong believer in religion at all. I have had many former co-workers/friends who were Jewish and worked in offices where no one lead prayer in a work function.

Would this freak you out? I felt very uncomfortable to say the least.

Get over it people! there is nothing with Fellowship and worshiping God.

So you would be just as okay if the office had been led in worship and everyone got out floor mats and prayed toward Mecca? Another form of fellowship?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm more interested in whether the OP is the only new person in the department. If the Ethics Officer starts investigating right after OP joined, it would be pretty obvious who made the call. Instead of going behind her boss' back but everybody knows it was her, maybe it would be safer for OP to talk directly to the boss about her concerns.

Yep, it will be obvious who made the call--whitey.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here:

First, I'm not a troll. I promise you this absolutely did happen in DC, Fed. gov. office, less than a month ago, non-military office. There was no indication prior to everyone meeting in the conference room (around 10:00 in the morning) that there was going to be a brunch or that there was going to be a prayer time. EVERYONE in the division was there. I was just going with the flow as it appeared I was expected to. In fact, I really didn't want anything to eat (having already had breakfast), but I felt obligated to make a gracious showing of interest so as not to offend.

As for the food -- I mean it was "catered" as home catering is done. Biscuits, scrambled eggs, some sort of meat that was grilled I think, fruit, spaghetti with some kind of asian sauce, bacon, I can't remember if there was gravy. I was like, "who brought all this food?!" and that's when someone said "XX makes it. She caters from her house." I wasn't asked for $$ as it was my second day, but I'm assuming that the employees pay for it, not the gov. The decision to have this monthly "fellowship" and to have it "catered" by one of the workers must have come from the supervisor. The supervisor made opening remarks and handed it over to the co-worker to lead us all in prayer.

I did not want to object to what the rest of the group apparently finds enjoyable. Bad enough that I kind of stick out by my light skin and different background, but to complain about their tradition seems like the kiss of death.

I hope I answered all of the questions that were posed.

OP, go sit down somewhere....

First of all, just because the lady has a catering business, does not mean that she catered for the company. Maybe she just donated the food because she really loves cooking, and had left overs.

Secondly, spaghetti for breakfast? Anyways...

Seems like you want a reason to dislike these people and I really doubt you are the only white person there in the office.

TROLL!

[Anonymous]

HR here. Totally inappropriate and, legal I believe.

The EEOC allows prayers during meetings and prayer functions in the workplace. An employee who objects is supposed to be able to ask to be excused from the portions of the meeting that make them uncomfortable. The theory is that the employer will accomodate them - and not hold it against them (retaliate).

[Anonymous]

Hey OP, I can relate to your situation. I think you need to do what will make you comfortable in the workplace. I think it is unfortunate that your boss and the people you work for didn't explain or preface the brunch with anything before you were somewhat blindsided by it. It has been about a month, is the next one coming up? Has your view on things changed at all in the past month regarding your ability to simply pass on the prayer or the brunch entirely? I think the way it was done was not right. They absolutely should have told you about it in advance and made sure you understood that it was a purely optional event. My office has done things like this (without the prayer) and if someone doesn't want to participate, it's no big deal..they're free to take the time to do something else. That was always made very clear. As for the prayer, it's not illegal but it can certainly create an uncomfortable situation if it's not done sensitively. I think more care should have been given to the fact that you were an outsider who wasn't familiar with the office culture. Maybe you've made a friend or two in the meantime you can talk to about it. If it's even more uncomfortable for you this next time around (either because they try to make you participate or you feel like people are bullying you because you don't) then I would report it. But, for now, you have to think about what you want in the end.

[Anonymous]

We had a small version of that where I worked out/gov't and it was pretty much common practice. It was very uncomfortable as I am not Christian and when I'd just sit there, they would get annoyed.

[Anonymous]

8:41 again.

I worked for a nice muslim man for a few years. Can you imagine how apalling it would have been if he asked me to bow down and pray to Mecca, ever? And how politically awful it would have been for me to have to refuse??? Do conservatives really want workplaces where a boss feels it's OK to do that? OH, I remember - you want the only prayer in the workplace to be Christian prayer since America, after all, was founded as a Christian theocracy

Also, I AM a wiccan. I am also a senior level employee where I work. Do you think it would be OK for me to have a staff meeting and invoke the four directions, cast a circle, light some incense, and ask my staff to go along? Clearly, NOT OK. To me being asked to participate in a Christian prayer is just as weird, with (some sects) mock eating of blood and flesh and a tortured man on a stake held out for worship, even before your youngest children. To my mind, sick and twisted. No Wiccan I know is into that weird shit.

People in positions where they have power over others in the workplace should not be allowed - subtly or explicitly - to ask you to pray their way (or at all) because it creates a very strong potential for discrimination. Even if you can't prove it, it's still there. It would be like your boss soliciting for donations to the Republican - or Democratic - party. How would you feel if asked to contribute to a party you revile, but know that you would have to out yourself politically with your boss? Leaving you with a choice to give money to say, Obama - or stick by your principles and possible have your career suffer for it?