Boss-led "fellowship" with prayer "...in Jesus Christ, our lord's name Amen"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A side question for anybody BUT the Wicca poster:

Are all Wicca immature jerks? I'm curious. The only one I know is the one on DCUM. And geez, she is a real doozy - intolerant, rude, and totally immature.

Please persuade me there are some nice, mature, tolerant Wiccans out there!

I know a number of Wiccans (I'm not one of them). As a group, they are significantly nicer and more tolerant people than the majority of Christians that I know. "intolerant, rude and totally immature" defines a large number of Christians that I see on a daily basis. I see a lot of Christians daily who believe that everyone is Christian and should be treated as a Christian. While that may seem nice and tolerant to you, it's completely intolerant and rude to the non-Christians out there. The funny thing is that there is no shortage of Christians who will belittle and denigrate a pagan's religion and practices, but do the same to a Christian and you are treated as if you were a terrorist.

Funny, I don't know a single Christian who behaves as you describe. It sounds like you work in an evangelical church. Where do you live or work?

But the only Wiccan I know is the one on DCUM, and she's awful.

[Anonymous]

^ Well, I also work in a gov't office and can say it does feel like I work at an Evangelical church sometimes. Not a day goes by where someone doesn't give me their "blessings" by email...and just today I was the recipient of a prayer chain email instructing me to pray...originating from my HR person no less. It's annoying, but I just ignore it all because what I am I going to do about? Complain? Yeah right. Clearly those suggesting it have never worked in the f. gov.

[Anonymous]

"But the only Wiccan I know is the one on DCUM, and she's awful."

Nitwit who slept through Stats 101.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A side question for anybody BUT the Wicca poster:

Are all Wicca immature jerks? I'm curious. The only one I know is the one on DCUM. And geez, she is a real doozy - intolerant, rude, and totally immature.

Please persuade me there are some nice, mature, tolerant Wiccans out there!

I know a number of Wiccans (I'm not one of them). As a group, they are significantly nicer and more tolerant people than the majority of Christians that I know. "intolerant, rude and totally immature" defines a large number of Christians that I see on a daily basis. I see a lot of Christians daily who believe that everyone is Christian and should be treated as a Christian. While that may seem nice and tolerant to you, it's completely intolerant and rude to the non-Christians out there. The funny thing is that there is no shortage of Christians who will belittle and denigrate a pagan's religion and practices, but do the same to a Christian and you are treated as if you were a terrorist.

Funny, I don't know a single Christian who behaves as you describe. It sounds like you work in an evangelical church. Where do you live or work?

But the only Wiccan I know is the one on DCUM, and she's awful.

Do you live under a rock? What about all of the Christians trying limit access to birth control because it is not "the Lord's wish" that we use it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ Well, I also work in a gov't office and can say it does feel like I work at an Evangelical church sometimes. Not a day goes by where someone doesn't give me their "blessings" by email...and just today I was the recipient of a prayer chain email instructing me to pray...originating from my HR person no less. It's annoying, but I just ignore it all because what I am I going to do about? Complain? Yeah right. Clearly those suggesting it have never worked in the f. gov.

+1

Exactly! People on here are acting like this is actually going to get somebody fired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that it is inappropriate, in any office, for a boss to kick off a gathering by asking everyone to bow their heads in prayer, or even ask someone to lead the group in prayer (even if they want to). That said, what can OP do about it that won't turn into a huge clusterfuck?

I agree with this. I think it's inappropriate. But it's not the only piece of OP's relationship with her coworkers and her boss, and I worry about her long-term experience in this office.

I was the one who asked whether it would be obvious that she was the one who went to the ethics office, and while I didn't use the word clusterfuck, I think it's apt. If everyone else starts to hate her because she got her boss reprimanded/ended the fellowship meetings/got other staff interrogated by the ethics folks/got everybody signed up for mandatory ethics training, then she'll probably be a lot worse off than just being uncomfortable once a month. This still doesn't make the prayer session right, but it might make OP's life easier in the long run.

My first course of action would be to go to the boss, tell him I'm uncomfortable, and work out something with him. Maybe she can show up 20 minutes late for breakfast, after the prayer is over. Or, she could go for the prayer but use the moment of silence for something else, like meditating, or planning her family dinner, or something else. They can't actually force her to pray, after all.

+2. The situation as described would also have made me VERY uncomfortable. In fact (and I am making assumptions here), I think I would be far MORE comfortable with a Non-Christian prayer, as I (assume) it wouldn't be as awkward to decline to participate in that case. But also agree that the mere fact it makes you uncomfortable doesn't mean there's any easy way to deal with it that won't have ramifications within your office. Of course there *should* be, but we're dealing with reality.

This thread also got me thinking about my own religious classification, and I think what best describes me is "Cultural Christian." I grew up in a pretty WASPy part of New England where I absorbed much of the moral / cultural components, but I don't actually 'believe' in the faith aspects. Growing up I would have self-identified as Christian, but since living in other areas of the Country I have come to realize this means I am NOT a Christian according to most Christians. So hence the "Cultural Christian" moniker. (Although I'm also very socially liberal - which seems to me to mesh just fine with Christ's teachings - so maybe that's not the right term, as it could mean socially conservative?)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:8:41 again.

I worked for a nice muslim man for a few years. Can you imagine how apalling it would have been if he asked me to bow down and pray to Mecca, ever? And how politically awful it would have been for me to have to refuse??? Do conservatives really want workplaces where a boss feels it's OK to do that? OH, I remember - you want the only prayer in the workplace to be Christian prayer since America, after all, was founded as a Christian theocracy

Also, I AM a wiccan. I am also a senior level employee where I work. Do you think it would be OK for me to have a staff meeting and invoke the four directions, cast a circle, light some incense, and ask my staff to go along? Clearly, NOT OK. To me being asked to participate in a Christian prayer is just as weird, with (some sects) mock eating of blood and flesh and a tortured man on a stake held out for worship, even before your youngest children. To my mind, sick and twisted. No Wiccan I know is into that weird shit.

People in positions where they have power over others in the workplace should not be allowed - subtly or explicitly - to ask you to pray their way (or at all) because it creates a very strong potential for discrimination. Even if you can't prove it, it's still there. It would be like your boss soliciting for donations to the Republican - or Democratic - party. How would you feel if asked to contribute to a party you revile, but know that you would have to out yourself politically with your boss? Leaving you with a choice to give money to say, Obama - or stick by your principles and possible have your career suffer for it?

LOL wiccan cult bullshit, do you sacrifice animals in the conference room. I would laugh at any supervisor that would tell me what to do that prays to dead animals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Do you live under a rock? What about all of the Christians trying limit access to birth control because it is not "the Lord's wish" that we use it?

Yeah, those Christians suck. But in day-to-day life, that's not my experience. AT ALL. Most of my coworkers and neighbors are atheists or agnostics.

Whereas, there aren't many Wiccans around. The one I know is on DCUM - and she sucks every bit as badly as Santorum. It's not a question of Stat 101, because we'd all like to know reasonable Wiccans. But given a sample of 1, that's what we go by.

Sorry DCUM Wiccan poster, but it's true: you suck as badly as Santorum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Totally and completely inappropriate in a government office. Period.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:8:41 again.

I worked for a nice muslim man for a few years. Can you imagine how apalling it would have been if he asked me to bow down and pray to Mecca, ever? And how politically awful it would have been for me to have to refuse??? Do conservatives really want workplaces where a boss feels it's OK to do that? OH, I remember - you want the only prayer in the workplace to be Christian prayer since America, after all, was founded as a Christian theocracy

Also, I AM a wiccan. I am also a senior level employee where I work. Do you think it would be OK for me to have a staff meeting and invoke the four directions, cast a circle, light some incense, and ask my staff to go along? Clearly, NOT OK. To me being asked to participate in a Christian prayer is just as weird, with (some sects) mock eating of blood and flesh and a tortured man on a stake held out for worship, even before your youngest children. To my mind, sick and twisted. No Wiccan I know is into that weird shit.

People in positions where they have power over others in the workplace should not be allowed - subtly or explicitly - to ask you to pray their way (or at all) because it creates a very strong potential for discrimination. Even if you can't prove it, it's still there. It would be like your boss soliciting for donations to the Republican - or Democratic - party. How would you feel if asked to contribute to a party you revile, but know that you would have to out yourself politically with your boss? Leaving you with a choice to give money to say, Obama - or stick by your principles and possible have your career suffer for it?

LOL wiccan cult bullshit, do you sacrifice animals in the conference room. I would laugh at any supervisor that would tell me what to do that prays to dead animals.

Now THAT is funny. Talk about tolerant and educated posters.

[Anonymous]

11:43 again. FWIW, I didn't post the picture. And I would never be that disrespectful to her religion, even though I think she deserves disrespect as a person and human being.

However, the disrespect for her religion in the picture is about on par with her disrespect in an earlier post: "mock eating of blood and flesh and a tortured man on a stake held out for worship, even before your youngest children. To my mind, sick and twisted. No Wiccan I know is into that weird shit. "

[Anonymous]

this should be reported to your agency ethics official and the Inspector General.... TOTALLY unacceptable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:11:43 again. FWIW, I didn't post the picture. And I would never be that disrespectful to her religion, even though I think she deserves disrespect as a person and human being.

However, the disrespect for her religion in the picture is about on par with her disrespect in an earlier post: "mock eating of blood and flesh and a tortured man on a stake held out for worship, even before your youngest children. To my mind, sick and twisted. No Wiccan I know is into that weird shit. "

You people are really stupid, I posted the picture and guess where is came from

A sculpture of the Horned God of Wicca found in the Museum of Witchcraft in Boscastle, Cornwall.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca

YES this is their cult BS , so its funny that by pointing to it in Wikipedia the overly tolerant PC people thought it was disrespectful because it could not possibly have anything to do with the goat head when in fact IT DOES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Gov. office. My second day. Employees gathered in conference room middle of the morning. Boss says we are taking time for "fellowship" and hands the floor over to another employee to "lead us in prayer" which concluded with "... in Jesus Christ, our lord's name. Amen." Then there was food catered by one of the employees who does this as a side business.

I grew up Christian (i.e. Catholic), go to church infrequently, and am not a strong believer in religion at all. I have had many former co-workers/friends who were Jewish and worked in offices where no one lead prayer in a work function.

Would this freak you out? I felt very uncomfortable to say the least.

Were they black? Black people do this all of the time. (I am black). And yes, it is so inappropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:11:43 again. FWIW, I didn't post the picture. And I would never be that disrespectful to her religion, even though I think she deserves disrespect as a person and human being.

However, the disrespect for her religion in the picture is about on par with her disrespect in an earlier post: "mock eating of blood and flesh and a tortured man on a stake held out for worship, even before your youngest children. To my mind, sick and twisted. No Wiccan I know is into that weird shit. "

You people are really stupid, I posted the picture and guess where is came from

A sculpture of the Horned God of Wicca found in the Museum of Witchcraft in Boscastle, Cornwall.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca

YES this is their cult BS , so its funny that by pointing to it in Wikipedia the overly tolerant PC people thought it was disrespectful because it could not possibly have anything to do with the goat head when in fact IT DOES.

OK you're right, I was trying to be too PC. Actually I can't stop laughing.