Are you a Catholic who uses borth control?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Odd you offered the number of large families as proof of adherence and now you are arguing the other side of that.

The fact is that the data says most catholic women use birth contro at some point. What they say to other arid homersay not be truthful, and if they reformed only after they got married, it is a weak commitment to the principle.

I wasn't the PP who first mentioned seeing many "8+ children" sized families.

It seems that many of the responders here are disillusioned with the Church and truly cannot wrap their heads around the fact that there ARE parishes and there ARE groups of faithful, young Catholic families who truly are committed to Church teaching on contraception. We are excited about it and we talk about it. Yes, I realize that there are plenty others who disagree and who think we are hypocritical and that we are probably are lying....so all I can think is that my reality is completely out of the range of not only your experience, but your imagination. Well, maybe one day you will stumble into my parish and then you will start to understand what I am talking about.

Incidentally, I've never seen the oft-referenced data about contracepting Catholics. Does anyone have a link to it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There a few years when I was in college where I didn't take my faith so seriously, and I was living with a boyfriend. During that time we used condoms, as I still found hormonal contraceptives to be problematic (especially the potential abortifacient properties).

It seems that just about every Catholic has those years. They are called "before I was married and didn't want to have a baby out of wedlock". They are followed by the "now we are married and ready to have kids and so we ought to reconnect with our faith" years. This part is heralded by your first ever box of envelopes for the weekly offering, CCD classes - or kids in plaid jumpers if you can swing it, and the occasional capital campaign pledge. You may at this point find where that rosary of yours was hidden away.

Sometimes they are followed by the "we already have a big family and have done more than our duty to fulfill God's plan, now it's time to take care of the children He already gave us" years. Vasectomy isn't an abortifacient, so it seems like God wouldn't mind that much.

It's hard to accept the claims of adherence from the people who are possibly smack dab in the middle of this three phase pattern that is so common.

Yes, I know people like that. Abandoning the faith is abandoning the faith, whether it happens before or after some period of time of acceptance of the faith. You forgot to add the fourth stage -- when you are in your 70's and death is staring you in the face, and you realize that the vasectomy, too, was wrong and you try to make amends. Thank goodness we have a forgiving God!

At any rate, just because someone questions or even abandons their faith during college, it doesn't mean that they can't ever return to a true belief. It's easy for young adults to go through something like that, for many reasons which I'm sure you can imagine. In my case, I returned to the faith many years (and boyfriends) before I met DH, and lived a pretty chaste during those years. Yes, that means that DH and I didn't even live together during our engagement. We've always stayed true to Church teaching in the contraception/sexuality department, and believe in it more than ever now, even though we are done having children. Sure, there are any number of ways that I might sin in the future, but it's just not going to be about the contraception issue.

You mean you weren't having sex with your husband before marriage?

Correct. Before I got married I dated several men, and of course dated and then was engaged to DH, all without having sex with them. Crazy, isn't it?!

[Anonymous]

Agree that if you really want to understand Church teaching on this, follow the link given above to Humanae Vitae (which I may be misspelling). Part of the idea of openness to children is that sex then becomes not just a pleasurable recreational act, like skiing, but a sharing in the life-giving force that is God. The creation of a child by the husband and wife mirrors the love embodied in the relationships between the three persons of the Holy Trinity. At least that is how I understand it. I was not raised Catholic, nor was my husband, and we both used birth control before and during our marriage until we converted after having our children. We stopped using birth control after we converted. I wish I had understood the Church's theology of the body my whole life, because sex and my marriage would have been much richer. I really admire the young families who make a commitment to natural family planning and envy them the special connection it gives the couples to one another and to God.

[Anonymous]

The church does not teach that birth control is wrong. It teaches that the pope cannot make a mistake. The pope made a mistake when he banned birth control
This is not about do you believe in birth control, it is about whether or not the pope can make a mistake

The bible does not mention it. So how can any church build a doctrine around it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: The creation of a child by the husband and wife mirrors the love embodied in the relationships between the three persons of the Holy Trinity. At least that is how I understand it. .

bizarre
The Father, Son and Holy Ghost?
Which one did the conceiving, which provided the sperm, and which one is the helpless newborn baby? And one of them would need to be the submissive wife

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The church does not teach that birth control is wrong. It teaches that the pope cannot make a mistake. The pope made a mistake when he banned birth control
This is not about do you believe in birth control, it is about whether or not the pope can make a mistake

The bible does not mention it. So how can any church build a doctrine around it?

I'm not going to defend birth control. But as a point of philosophy, the Catholic Church builds theology out of two things: the bible (and other religious documents) and Natural Law. Natural Law is roughly the things that can be derived from observing how the universe/ nature works. The logic is that since God created the universe, its rules reveal God's intentions.

A representative Catholic theologian would be Thomas Aquinas. It is also an important foundation for our ideas of democracy, because Locke used Natural Law to derive the concept of Life/Liberty/Property, which became Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The church does not teach that birth control is wrong. It teaches that the pope cannot make a mistake. The pope made a mistake when he banned birth control
This is not about do you believe in birth control, it is about whether or not the pope can make a mistake

Wrong. The pope can make mistakes and the Church does not teach that the Pope is infallible for his every pronouncement.

That many people consider the Pope to be completely wrong on this issue can be seen in news coverage in the 1960s of the huge outcry that took place in the Catholic community.

[Anonymous]

I haven't waded through all the muck on this thread so I am not sure of it has been mentioned but Pope John Paul II's Theology of the Body is a great read for Catholics-- and actually non-Catholics who want to get their facts straight.

[Anonymous]

Why on earth would I care what some Pope living in the Vatican in luxury thinks about how many kids I should be having

I promise you, once I have house just like him, I will agree with everything he says

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven't waded through all the muck on this thread so I am not sure of it has been mentioned but Pope John Paul II's Theology of the Body is a great read for Catholics-- and actually non-Catholics who want to get their facts straight.

Actually this thread has not gone down the drain. In fact, it has been very enlightening. It just reaffirms for me what I thought all along. That most Catholic women use birth control, because it makes sense in their lives and that's what's important. NOT what an old man, sitting in the Vatican thinks. Several PP's have said that there is nothing in the bible about not using birth control.

I am offended when you say, we all need to read Pope John Paul II's Theology to get OUR FACTS STRAIGHT on his opinion on our bodies? No, thank you. I am the least bit interested in his opinions, thoughts as far as this is concerned. To pass this on as facts is hilarious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't waded through all the muck on this thread so I am not sure of it has been mentioned but Pope John Paul II's Theology of the Body is a great read for Catholics-- and actually non-Catholics who want to get their facts straight.

Actually this thread has not gone down the drain. In fact, it has been very enlightening. It just reaffirms for me what I thought all along. That most Catholic women use birth control, because it makes sense in their lives and that's what's important. NOT what an old man, sitting in the Vatican thinks. Several PP's have said that there is nothing in the bible about not using birth control.

I am offended when you say, we all need to read Pope John Paul II's Theology to get OUR FACTS STRAIGHT on his opinion on our bodies? No, thank you. I am the least bit interested in his opinions, thoughts as far as this is concerned. To pass this on as facts is hilarious.

Clearly you haven't read the book......

Nor the poster before you. It has nothing to do with his opinion on your bodies. It is based on the Churchs teachings about procreation. Facts rather than fiction about Catholic theology.

*sigh*

[Anonymous]

Yes, churches teaching about procreation
Jesus did not talk about that, neither did apostle Paul
Either way, the churches teaching is that the Pope cannot make a mistake and that is why they have added this new doctrine into the bible
It is all about making women feel guilty.

St Mary is still the saint she was to women before the days of contraception
We all still pray:
You who were able to conceive without sin, help us to sin without conceiving

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, churches teaching about procreation
Jesus did not talk about that, neither did apostle Paul
Either way, the churches teaching is that the Pope cannot make a mistake and that is why they have added this new doctrine into the bible
It is all about making women feel guilty.

St Mary is still the saint she was to women before the days of contraception
We all still pray:
You who were able to conceive without sin, help us to sin without conceiving

and power......


where's the love?

[Anonymous]

Catholic church has not historically been nice to women
Women were burnt as witches
Women were hoarded into Magdalene laundries in Ireland

Wherever they go, religion is about men

[Anonymous]

God, save me from your followers.