anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?

[Anonymous]

But to poke fun of people who have experienced life-altering experiences is just plain cruel - and steeped in ignorance.

Sorry, you don't get to have it both ways: it's either cruel in the sense that making fun of someone who is mentally unbalanced is cruel, or if you're an adult who is sane and capable of rational thought, it's not cruel in the least. I give you credit for being in the latter camp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many non-believers are confusing a "religious" God with spirituality. The two are different.

Wrong. They're both metaphysical phenomena that have no support from any kind of evidence. They require "faith"--the willing suspension of disbelief. They're equally likely. Or unlikely as the case may be.

Think what you will, but spirituality is not about guidelines taken from some book. It's inclusive. They are different. Spirituality is a connection among people that breaks through barriers. If you deny this basic component of our nature, then you can't really call yourself a human.

[Anonymous]

One last thing: comparing God to Poseidon or the Flying Spaghetti Monster is not cruel, mocking, or any of the rest. If you want to believe in such things and be free from anyone even suggesting otherwise, keep it to yourself. If I start a thread claiming that Ron Paul is the second coming of George Washington, or that the 2002 Cleveland Browns are the greatest football team ever assembled, it's likely someone might contradict me. Then we may debate it. What I won't do is start wagging my finger and demanding they stop cruelly mocking me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many non-believers are confusing a "religious" God with spirituality. The two are different.

Wrong. They're both metaphysical phenomena that have no support from any kind of evidence. They require "faith"--the willing suspension of disbelief. They're equally likely. Or unlikely as the case may be.

Think what you will, but spirituality is not about guidelines taken from some book. It's inclusive. They are different. Spirituality is a connection among people that breaks through barriers. If you deny this basic component of our nature, then you can't really call yourself a human.

If you define "spirituality" as "a connection among people that breaks through barriers" then you're essentially defining the metaphysical component out of existence. So sure, it's a bit like answering the anti-theists by saying "God is love". Obviously people make emotional and social connections with one another. Count me in; I'm spiritual too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many non-believers are confusing a "religious" God with spirituality. The two are different.

Wrong. They're both metaphysical phenomena that have no support from any kind of evidence. They require "faith"--the willing suspension of disbelief. They're equally likely. Or unlikely as the case may be.

Think what you will, but spirituality is not about guidelines taken from some book. It's inclusive. They are different. Spirituality is a connection among people that breaks through barriers. If you deny this basic component of our nature, then you can't really call yourself a human.

If you define "spirituality" as "a connection among people that breaks through barriers" then you're essentially defining the metaphysical component out of existence. So sure, it's a bit like answering the anti-theists by saying "God is love". Obviously people make emotional and social connections with one another. Count me in; I'm spiritual too.

Just so long as you don't--after sneaking under the rope--then go on to make all sorts of meta-physical claims. That's the kind of game of whack-a-mole the theists play all the time.

"God is love. That's all!"

"Ok, sounds good. Obviously there's love."

"And when He spoke to..."

"Whoa, whoa, whoa! What do you mean 'He'? I thought he was 'love'?"

"Well, we already agreed we all believe in God, so...MOVING ON..."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many non-believers are confusing a "religious" God with spirituality. The two are different.

Wrong. They're both metaphysical phenomena that have no support from any kind of evidence. They require "faith"--the willing suspension of disbelief. They're equally likely. Or unlikely as the case may be.

Think what you will, but spirituality is not about guidelines taken from some book. It's inclusive. They are different. Spirituality is a connection among people that breaks through barriers. If you deny this basic component of our nature, then you can't really call yourself a human.

If you define "spirituality" as "a connection among people that breaks through barriers" then you're essentially defining the metaphysical component out of existence. So sure, it's a bit like answering the anti-theists by saying "God is love". Obviously people make emotional and social connections with one another. Count me in; I'm spiritual too.

Just so long as you don't--after sneaking under the rope--then go on to make all sorts of meta-physical claims. That's the kind of game of whack-a-mole the theists play all the time.

"God is love. That's all!"

"Ok, sounds good. Obviously there's love."

"And when He spoke to..."

"Whoa, whoa, whoa! What do you mean 'He'? I thought he was 'love'?"

"Well, we already agreed we all believe in God, so...MOVING ON..."

don't know about whack-a-mole

But you've certainly given enough evidence to support that you're a wackado.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many non-believers are confusing a "religious" God with spirituality. The two are different.

Wrong. They're both metaphysical phenomena that have no support from any kind of evidence. They require "faith"--the willing suspension of disbelief. They're equally likely. Or unlikely as the case may be.

Think what you will, but spirituality is not about guidelines taken from some book. It's inclusive. They are different. Spirituality is a connection among people that breaks through barriers. If you deny this basic component of our nature, then you can't really call yourself a human.

If you define "spirituality" as "a connection among people that breaks through barriers" then you're essentially defining the metaphysical component out of existence. So sure, it's a bit like answering the anti-theists by saying "God is love". Obviously people make emotional and social connections with one another. Count me in; I'm spiritual too.

Just so long as you don't--after sneaking under the rope--then go on to make all sorts of meta-physical claims. That's the kind of game of whack-a-mole the theists play all the time.

"God is love. That's all!"

"Ok, sounds good. Obviously there's love."

"And when He spoke to..."

"Whoa, whoa, whoa! What do you mean 'He'? I thought he was 'love'?"

"Well, we already agreed we all believe in God, so...MOVING ON..."

don't know about whack-a-mole

But you've certainly given enough evidence to support that you're a wackado.

And...then the inevitable ad hominem. Why the insults? Surely we haven't reached the limit of your capacity for understanding?

[Anonymous]

Unless someone is arguing that NDEs are proof of god, why are we going over this god/no god discussion for the millionth time?

[Anonymous]

I think Earnest Catholic Lady dragged us off-course with:

My grandfather had a NDE when he had a heart attack in his late 40s. He was pronounced dead, but he revived some time later. He was already a man of deep faith, so he felt no need to talk about the details of the experience, but he lived the next 30+ years with great peace, love, and joy.

For those with no faith, no metaphysical mystery will be great enough to instill awe. There are so many things about the human experience that defy understanding. I read The Boy Who Came Back from Heaven with interest, and I've been meaning to take Heaven is for Real out of the library. I find the stories intriguing. But they are not necessary for my faith.

I do wonder about those who don't know or care about the possibility of an afterlife. The degree of confidence you must have in materialism goes far beyond the confidence most people have in God. Why so certain when you have no material evidence you are correct?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think Earnest Catholic Lady dragged us off-course with:

My grandfather had a NDE when he had a heart attack in his late 40s. He was pronounced dead, but he revived some time later. He was already a man of deep faith, so he felt no need to talk about the details of the experience, but he lived the next 30+ years with great peace, love, and joy.

For those with no faith, no metaphysical mystery will be great enough to instill awe. There are so many things about the human experience that defy understanding. I read The Boy Who Came Back from Heaven with interest, and I've been meaning to take Heaven is for Real out of the library. I find the stories intriguing. But they are not necessary for my faith.

I do wonder about those who don't know or care about the possibility of an afterlife. The degree of confidence you must have in materialism goes far beyond the confidence most people have in God. Why so certain when you have no material evidence you are correct?

And the mean-spirited, evangelical atheist had to chime in with insults.

[Anonymous]

You'd think people would just ignore the one atheist who talks about flying spaghetti monsters. What sense does it make to have the same conversation week after week? Any minds getting changed?

[Anonymous]

A lot of religious people who have NDEs come back and say they no longer believe in organized religion or "one true god." It can go either way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of religious people who have NDEs come back and say they no longer believe in organized religion or "one true god." It can go either way.

Yes, but there is at least one mean atheist who doesn't want to talk reasonable and only wants to demean and make fun of Christians and other believers. That is totally different than the people you are talking about. That person(s) sound like my uncle who converted to some extreme Christian off-shoot and spent his time demeaning people and telling everyone how they were going to hell. It is the atheist version of that type of personality/religion and it makes you all look bad. That person is so vocal it presents atheism as judgemental, irrational, narrow minded and unwilling to respect others or discuss things rationally.

[Anonymous]

Yet, you keep debating with that atheist? You're just as responsible as that poster for the discussion. Don't play the game if you don't want to hear that same, tired BS. Learn to let it go. We'd all be appreciative to not have endless discussions ruined by your bickering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of religious people who have NDEs come back and say they no longer believe in organized religion or "one true god." It can go either way.

Yes, but there is at least one mean atheist who doesn't want to talk reasonable and only wants to demean and make fun of Christians and other believers. That is totally different than the people you are talking about. That person(s) sound like my uncle who converted to some extreme Christian off-shoot and spent his time demeaning people and telling everyone how they were going to hell. It is the atheist version of that type of personality/religion and it makes you all look bad. That person is so vocal it presents atheism as judgemental, irrational, narrow minded and unwilling to respect others or discuss things rationally.

If you can quote one sentence on this thread where someone has "demeaned" and "made fun of" religious people, I'd like to see it.