Are service academies super competitive?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They’re not super competitive. If you can meet the medical and physical requirements, they’re a cake walk for high stats kids. An ACT score of 25 or SAT 1210 puts you in the mid-50 percentile at Annapolis.

pls give the source for this.

US News has data for the academies. West Point mid 50% SAT is 1220-1430, average is 1330.

As has been said these schools are competitive, but in a very different way than most colleges. The application process is unique and, as such, they count all applications, from started to complete, in their acceptance rates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of you are in bubbles. Most teenagers are not seeing therapists, do not have IEPs, do not have noteworthy allergies, do not take daily medication, etc. I realize that may be hard to believe if you are surrounded by kids receiving all these medical interventions in your community/family, but it is not the norm throughout the country. Service academy appointments are competitive, in part, because there are plenty of (medically and physically) qualified candidates.

Of the students with high enough academic marks, leadership, etc. to get into academies- yes, many do have the above mentioned issues. The pool of qualified applicants to service academies is small

[Anonymous]

If they could get the top 1% to want to join the military and pass all the medical, physical fitness, and leadership requirements, I'm sure they'd probably take them. The purpose is to supply the military with trained and skilled officers for at least 5 years post-grad, as everyone who completes the academy is hired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of you are in bubbles. Most teenagers are not seeing therapists, do not have IEPs, do not have noteworthy allergies, do not take daily medication, etc. I realize that may be hard to believe if you are surrounded by kids receiving all these medical interventions in your community/family, but it is not the norm throughout the country. Service academy appointments are competitive, in part, because there are plenty of (medically and physically) qualified candidates.

Maybe? My DC said tons of kids in their AP classes get extra testing time.

[Anonymous]

When can applicants get results from medical exam? It should be done in the first stage as the initial screening. Or else, when a kid finished essays, applied for several nominations, but eventually found he is not qualified for some small physical issues. that's cruel. IT also wast too much time.

Also, if a pretty strong applicant didn't get nomination, is that the end? Is there any other way to help? I feel the nomination is the hardest part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When can applicants get results from medical exam? It should be done in the first stage as the initial screening. Or else, when a kid finished essays, applied for several nominations, but eventually found he is not qualified for some small physical issues. that's cruel. IT also wast too much time.

Also, if a pretty strong applicant didn't get nomination, is that the end? Is there any other way to help? I feel the nomination is the hardest part.

As I told my current cadet when they were applying, 'you're trying to join the largest bureaucracy in the world. Sometimes it will be frustrating now and for however long you stay in.'

Medical processing isn't later to try to screw anyone over, but they need to weed out some kids first because they couldn't process all applicants otherwise. It's a small contact staff that already gets overwhelmed. And from the DC area, yes-- I think the nomination is the hardest part. It is possible but highly unlikely to get the vice-presidential nomination or a service-related one if parents were career military.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not competitive in the same way highly selective schools are. They are looking for breadth, bright, athletic, and accomplished but it need not be that deep and they don’t care that much about things like national awards, competitions, app themes, etc. class size (plebes) is fairly large. So for example, their avg gpa and sat is significaly
Lower than top schools. They also have physical test requirements BUT unlimited retakes as long as they ultimately pass.

It’s not enough to simply pass the physical fitness test. You are given a point value based on how well you do that is figured into application packet. Passing is simply the bare minimum to join military.

Yes or no:

A kid can have his gym teacher or coach give the assessment over and over and over. Kid can fail or pass or redo at will. Once passing with results kid is okay with, that is passed on by the administer of the testing (coach/gym teacher). The military is not told of all scores, failed attempts or number of tries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you serious? Yes, they are looking for the best of the best.

Let us hope they are looking for the best so we won't be sacked by a swarm of drones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you are in bubbles. Most teenagers are not seeing therapists, do not have IEPs, do not have noteworthy allergies, do not take daily medication, etc. I realize that may be hard to believe if you are surrounded by kids receiving all these medical interventions in your community/family, but it is not the norm throughout the country. Service academy appointments are competitive, in part, because there are plenty of (medically and physically) qualified candidates.

Of the students with high enough academic marks, leadership, etc. to get into academies- yes, many do have the above mentioned issues. The pool of qualified applicants to service academies is small

This is correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know of four students who were accepted to one or more of the service academies but failed the physical for reasons beyond their control. All good students. All varsity athletes.

Anyone seriously considering applying to the service academies should get the basic physical first to make sure they aren’t wasting their time.

Agreed. The physical fitness test itself is not hard at all. It's DODMERB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids I know personally were all decent to strong students, but not highest level academically. Similar athletically.

My child was a NMF. Many of his friends at his service academy were also NMFs, so yes, many service academy students are highest level academically.

I see zero kids in the 2021-and-earlier datasource I use to check the number of national merit finalists going to any of the military academies, which makes me think that either the datasource is making a surprising omission, or, more likely, students are/were not able to collect on scholarships. (NMF is NMSF+ a scholarship. The Academies don't offer their own National Merit scholarships, to my knowledge, but a large number of scholarships are funded by outside sources, so one would think that they'd have shown up at some point, if they were allowed.)

Academy 25/75 percentile sat score
USMA West Point 1200/1430
Naval Academy 1210/1410
Air Force 1230/1440
Coast Guard 1240/1400 (at least 17% do not take tests)
Merchant Marine 1110/1300

With the exception of the Coast Guard, very few people enter the academies without having taken admissions tests, and none of those tests have a "received extra time" asterisk, despite a large number of students who would have been able to trivially get accommodations (have you ever met a fighter pilot?) Compare that with half the students at Virginia Tech or the University of Maryland skipping entrance exams. Even the dumber students at the military Academies are mostly college material, and the top group is quite strong, even without going into the noncognitive aspects that are tied to success, which, for Academy students, are de rigueur.

I would expect this area, because of proximity to the Pentagon and half-a-dozen other major military bases, to require extremely high performance to get in.

[Anonymous]

Several previous comments seem to imply that an IEP is always indicative of a learning disability or some other difficulty.
While that’s certainly true, my extended family includes several students who had IEPs based on their classification as “gifted” (without any accompanying disabilities or other obstacles).
Absent some other negative issue, I find it difficult to believe that this type of IEP, designed to enrich the education of highly intelligent kids, would be an automatic disqualifier regarding service academy eligibility.

[Anonymous]

Service academy candidates have to be very good in numerous areas, even if they’re excellent in a few.
They aren’t the ones who split atoms, but can’t run a mile.
Nor are they the ones who can bench press a Volkswagen, but never pick up a book.

[Anonymous]

No, they are not “super competitive” in the same vein as Harvard or Stanford, at least academically. Usually a 3.7 uw and 1350 is enough. It’s all the other stuff; pt test, dodmerb, essays, recommendation letters, and you really need to start your application the summer before senior year. And the applications for nominations can be insanely cumbersome. The kid has to really want to go there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, they are not “super competitive” in the same vein as Harvard or Stanford, at least academically. Usually a 3.7 uw and 1350 is enough. It’s all the other stuff; pt test, dodmerb, essays, recommendation letters, and you really need to start your application the summer before senior year. And the applications for nominations can be insanely cumbersome. The kid has to really want to go there.

+1