Moving from DCPS to Charter but commute is terrible

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:One thing you may not realize when your kids are very young is that there's tons of good options when it comes to elementary schools, but as the child ages, the options get much, much worse. DCI is a massive improvement over MacFarland and Roosevelt, and a 20 minute commute seems fairly normal. And there's not a huge price difference between living in Petworth and living in Brightwood/Takoma/Shepherd Park, and you could end up moving closer to DCI eventually.

So true. Everyone is fighting for access to OOB schools, not because that school is much better than the neighborhood school, but because the guaranteed Middle is superior. The lottery here is infuriating. Maybe this could be fixed by getting rid of all guaranteed spots and having every middle be lottery.

You're frustrated by your little scramble in elementary school and your solution is to burn down the city.

making all spots in all dcps schools subject to the lottery would be a whole lot fairer than what we do now, where we auction off spaces in the most desirable schools via housing prices while the least desirable schools are half empty. some of these schools are extremely underenrolled.

It works for charters, of course, and has for many years, but somehow, someway it would be just impossible for DCPS too.

That’s not how charters work. Parents have to opt in to lottery into a charter. The parent has to be knowledgeable enough about the due dates, platforms, etc. A large portion of DC children do not live with parents who do that, for many different reasons.

What PP is suggesting is automatic lottery for every enrolled kid at any school. People would move out of DC in that scenario.

The only people who would move would be Janney and Deal and JR parents worried that undesirables (ie poor black kids) would be joining their schools.

They would move because they would lottery into schools across town and that's not what they signed up for. This has happened in other cities.

Yikes. You have literally no clue how the lottery works, do you? That's not how it works at all.

The lottery is modeled after the system that's used to place doctors in residencies. You name your top 12 choices, in your order of preference. If you match with your number one school, then you're in. If not, you go to your No. 2 school. If you don't match there, you go to your No. 3 school. You can't match to a school that you didn't pick, and most people pick schools that are near them. This notion that people are going to get stuck in schools they didnt pick that are way across town is not even possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing you may not realize when your kids are very young is that there's tons of good options when it comes to elementary schools, but as the child ages, the options get much, much worse. DCI is a massive improvement over MacFarland and Roosevelt, and a 20 minute commute seems fairly normal. And there's not a huge price difference between living in Petworth and living in Brightwood/Takoma/Shepherd Park, and you could end up moving closer to DCI eventually.

So true. Everyone is fighting for access to OOB schools, not because that school is much better than the neighborhood school, but because the guaranteed Middle is superior. The lottery here is infuriating. Maybe this could be fixed by getting rid of all guaranteed spots and having every middle be lottery.

You're frustrated by your little scramble in elementary school and your solution is to burn down the city.

making all spots in all dcps schools subject to the lottery would be a whole lot fairer than what we do now, where we auction off spaces in the most desirable schools via housing prices while the least desirable schools are half empty. some of these schools are extremely underenrolled.

It works for charters, of course, and has for many years, but somehow, someway it would be just impossible for DCPS too.

That’s not how charters work. Parents have to opt in to lottery into a charter. The parent has to be knowledgeable enough about the due dates, platforms, etc. A large portion of DC children do not live with parents who do that, for many different reasons.

What PP is suggesting is automatic lottery for every enrolled kid at any school. People would move out of DC in that scenario.

The only people who would move would be Janney and Deal and JR parents worried that undesirables (ie poor black kids) would be joining their schools.

They would move because they would lottery into schools across town and that's not what they signed up for. This has happened in other cities.

Yikes. You have literally no clue how the lottery works, do you? That's not how it works at all.

The lottery is modeled after the system that's used to place doctors in residencies. You name your top 12 choices, in your order of preference. If you match with your number one school, then you're in. If not, you go to your No. 2 school. If you don't match there, you go to your No. 3 school. You can't match to a school that you didn't pick, and most people pick schools that are near them. This notion that people are going to get stuck in schools they didnt pick that are way across town is not even possible.

Yes it is possible. Look up how the San Francisco lottery worked. I assume DC would do the same. The problem with this lottery versus the current one or your residency example is that you can strike out at all of your choices. If DC goes full lottery system, they must place a kid at a school. So if your top 12 are full based on other criteria (which usually takes into account SES and then sibling preference) you can end up at a random school with spots available.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing you may not realize when your kids are very young is that there's tons of good options when it comes to elementary schools, but as the child ages, the options get much, much worse. DCI is a massive improvement over MacFarland and Roosevelt, and a 20 minute commute seems fairly normal. And there's not a huge price difference between living in Petworth and living in Brightwood/Takoma/Shepherd Park, and you could end up moving closer to DCI eventually.

So true. Everyone is fighting for access to OOB schools, not because that school is much better than the neighborhood school, but because the guaranteed Middle is superior. The lottery here is infuriating. Maybe this could be fixed by getting rid of all guaranteed spots and having every middle be lottery.

You're frustrated by your little scramble in elementary school and your solution is to burn down the city.

making all spots in all dcps schools subject to the lottery would be a whole lot fairer than what we do now, where we auction off spaces in the most desirable schools via housing prices while the least desirable schools are half empty. some of these schools are extremely underenrolled.

It works for charters, of course, and has for many years, but somehow, someway it would be just impossible for DCPS too.

Damn, you are so stupid. It works for charter because people are opting in. The citywide lottery would be forcing people out of their neighborhood school.

So much of the revival of the city was due to an impression that schools were improving, allowing more parents with young kids to stay. (The impression was overly optimistic at the time but it still worked). This would be over.

What are you even talking about? The only schools that would see a significant impact would be Ward 3 schools. No one is clamoring to go to DCPS schools east of the park. Also, you have your history completely wrong. The reason parents east of the park now don't move when their kids get to school age, is because of the lottery and charters give them lots of good options. The only part of the city were people are super into DCPS is Ward 3.

San Francisco did this and it was an epic disaster that pushed upper income families out of the public school system and increased segregation. They are now admitting that it was a disaster and going back to neighborhood schools.

https://www.sfusd.edu/schools/enroll/student-assignment-policy/student-assignment-changes

I would leave neighborhood elementary alone, but then start all (dcps and charter) middles at 6th. Everything lottery or test in with no special feeders. These kids are old enough to use transit. The neighborhood model just isn’t as relevant as they get older. That would address the issue of having to lateral to a similar OOB elementary just to get a feeder spot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing you may not realize when your kids are very young is that there's tons of good options when it comes to elementary schools, but as the child ages, the options get much, much worse. DCI is a massive improvement over MacFarland and Roosevelt, and a 20 minute commute seems fairly normal. And there's not a huge price difference between living in Petworth and living in Brightwood/Takoma/Shepherd Park, and you could end up moving closer to DCI eventually.

So true. Everyone is fighting for access to OOB schools, not because that school is much better than the neighborhood school, but because the guaranteed Middle is superior. The lottery here is infuriating. Maybe this could be fixed by getting rid of all guaranteed spots and having every middle be lottery.

You're frustrated by your little scramble in elementary school and your solution is to burn down the city.

making all spots in all dcps schools subject to the lottery would be a whole lot fairer than what we do now, where we auction off spaces in the most desirable schools via housing prices while the least desirable schools are half empty. some of these schools are extremely underenrolled.

It works for charters, of course, and has for many years, but somehow, someway it would be just impossible for DCPS too.

That’s not how charters work. Parents have to opt in to lottery into a charter. The parent has to be knowledgeable enough about the due dates, platforms, etc. A large portion of DC children do not live with parents who do that, for many different reasons.

What PP is suggesting is automatic lottery for every enrolled kid at any school. People would move out of DC in that scenario.

The only people who would move would be Janney and Deal and JR parents worried that undesirables (ie poor black kids) would be joining their schools.

Why would any kids from different neighborhoods want to go to Janney or Deal or JR?

Why would anyone want to go to any particular DCPS school if they were all lottery? I mean, they have the same curriculum, the same people hire and oversee the principals, they have the same sports set-up, etc. etc. Wouldn't they all just be the same?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing you may not realize when your kids are very young is that there's tons of good options when it comes to elementary schools, but as the child ages, the options get much, much worse. DCI is a massive improvement over MacFarland and Roosevelt, and a 20 minute commute seems fairly normal. And there's not a huge price difference between living in Petworth and living in Brightwood/Takoma/Shepherd Park, and you could end up moving closer to DCI eventually.

So true. Everyone is fighting for access to OOB schools, not because that school is much better than the neighborhood school, but because the guaranteed Middle is superior. The lottery here is infuriating. Maybe this could be fixed by getting rid of all guaranteed spots and having every middle be lottery.

You're frustrated by your little scramble in elementary school and your solution is to burn down the city.

making all spots in all dcps schools subject to the lottery would be a whole lot fairer than what we do now, where we auction off spaces in the most desirable schools via housing prices while the least desirable schools are half empty. some of these schools are extremely underenrolled.

It works for charters, of course, and has for many years, but somehow, someway it would be just impossible for DCPS too.

That’s not how charters work. Parents have to opt in to lottery into a charter. The parent has to be knowledgeable enough about the due dates, platforms, etc. A large portion of DC children do not live with parents who do that, for many different reasons.

What PP is suggesting is automatic lottery for every enrolled kid at any school. People would move out of DC in that scenario.

The only people who would move would be Janney and Deal and JR parents worried that undesirables (ie poor black kids) would be joining their schools.

They would move because they would lottery into schools across town and that's not what they signed up for. This has happened in other cities.

Yikes. You have literally no clue how the lottery works, do you? That's not how it works at all.

The lottery is modeled after the system that's used to place doctors in residencies. You name your top 12 choices, in your order of preference. If you match with your number one school, then you're in. If not, you go to your No. 2 school. If you don't match there, you go to your No. 3 school. You can't match to a school that you didn't pick, and most people pick schools that are near them. This notion that people are going to get stuck in schools they didnt pick that are way across town is not even possible.

Yes it is possible. Look up how the San Francisco lottery worked. I assume DC would do the same. The problem with this lottery versus the current one or your residency example is that you can strike out at all of your choices. If DC goes full lottery system, they must place a kid at a school. So if your top 12 are full based on other criteria (which usually takes into account SES and then sibling preference) you can end up at a random school with spots available.

But every kid has a guarantee spot k-12 at their neighborhood DCPS. (Don't count PK but it is an extra that is it's own thing).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing you may not realize when your kids are very young is that there's tons of good options when it comes to elementary schools, but as the child ages, the options get much, much worse. DCI is a massive improvement over MacFarland and Roosevelt, and a 20 minute commute seems fairly normal. And there's not a huge price difference between living in Petworth and living in Brightwood/Takoma/Shepherd Park, and you could end up moving closer to DCI eventually.

So true. Everyone is fighting for access to OOB schools, not because that school is much better than the neighborhood school, but because the guaranteed Middle is superior. The lottery here is infuriating. Maybe this could be fixed by getting rid of all guaranteed spots and having every middle be lottery.

You're frustrated by your little scramble in elementary school and your solution is to burn down the city.

making all spots in all dcps schools subject to the lottery would be a whole lot fairer than what we do now, where we auction off spaces in the most desirable schools via housing prices while the least desirable schools are half empty. some of these schools are extremely underenrolled.

It works for charters, of course, and has for many years, but somehow, someway it would be just impossible for DCPS too.

That’s not how charters work. Parents have to opt in to lottery into a charter. The parent has to be knowledgeable enough about the due dates, platforms, etc. A large portion of DC children do not live with parents who do that, for many different reasons.

What PP is suggesting is automatic lottery for every enrolled kid at any school. People would move out of DC in that scenario.

The only people who would move would be Janney and Deal and JR parents worried that undesirables (ie poor black kids) would be joining their schools.

They would move because they would lottery into schools across town and that's not what they signed up for. This has happened in other cities.

Yikes. You have literally no clue how the lottery works, do you? That's not how it works at all.

The lottery is modeled after the system that's used to place doctors in residencies. You name your top 12 choices, in your order of preference. If you match with your number one school, then you're in. If not, you go to your No. 2 school. If you don't match there, you go to your No. 3 school. You can't match to a school that you didn't pick, and most people pick schools that are near them. This notion that people are going to get stuck in schools they didnt pick that are way across town is not even possible.

Yes it is possible. Look up how the San Francisco lottery worked. I assume DC would do the same. The problem with this lottery versus the current one or your residency example is that you can strike out at all of your choices. If DC goes full lottery system, they must place a kid at a school. So if your top 12 are full based on other criteria (which usually takes into account SES and then sibling preference) you can end up at a random school with spots available.

But every kid has a guarantee spot k-12 at their neighborhood DCPS. (Don't count PK but it is an extra that is it's own thing).

You missed that they are discussing a hypothetical in which no schools are neighborhood schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing you may not realize when your kids are very young is that there's tons of good options when it comes to elementary schools, but as the child ages, the options get much, much worse. DCI is a massive improvement over MacFarland and Roosevelt, and a 20 minute commute seems fairly normal. And there's not a huge price difference between living in Petworth and living in Brightwood/Takoma/Shepherd Park, and you could end up moving closer to DCI eventually.

So true. Everyone is fighting for access to OOB schools, not because that school is much better than the neighborhood school, but because the guaranteed Middle is superior. The lottery here is infuriating. Maybe this could be fixed by getting rid of all guaranteed spots and having every middle be lottery.

You're frustrated by your little scramble in elementary school and your solution is to burn down the city.

making all spots in all dcps schools subject to the lottery would be a whole lot fairer than what we do now, where we auction off spaces in the most desirable schools via housing prices while the least desirable schools are half empty. some of these schools are extremely underenrolled.

It works for charters, of course, and has for many years, but somehow, someway it would be just impossible for DCPS too.

Damn, you are so stupid. It works for charter because people are opting in. The citywide lottery would be forcing people out of their neighborhood school.

So much of the revival of the city was due to an impression that schools were improving, allowing more parents with young kids to stay. (The impression was overly optimistic at the time but it still worked). This would be over.

What are you even talking about? The only schools that would see a significant impact would be Ward 3 schools. No one is clamoring to go to DCPS schools east of the park. Also, you have your history completely wrong. The reason parents east of the park now don't move when their kids get to school age, is because of the lottery and charters give them lots of good options. The only part of the city were people are super into DCPS is Ward 3.

San Francisco did this and it was an epic disaster that pushed upper income families out of the public school system and increased segregation. They are now admitting that it was a disaster and going back to neighborhood schools.

https://www.sfusd.edu/schools/enroll/student-assignment-policy/student-assignment-changes

I would leave neighborhood elementary alone, but then start all (dcps and charter) middles at 6th. Everything lottery or test in with no special feeders. These kids are old enough to use transit. The neighborhood model just isn’t as relevant as they get older. That would address the issue of having to lateral to a similar OOB elementary just to get a feeder spot.

You likely say this because you don't like your IB middle school option. Which I get -- I don't like mine either and my kid won't go there. But a pure lottery would create chaos. It also diminishes the incentive people have to invest in neighborhood schools, which is pretty much the only ways that DCPS schools become desirable places to attend, even at the MS and HS level -- community investment.

I do like the idea of test in schools at the MS and HS level. I think one of the biggest issues in the city is there are lots of kids who are capable and academically inclined but who have limited or no access to an academically rigorous MS or HS. A true magnet school system with test in could address their needs. And yes, this would result in some inequities because kids whose families could help them prepare for the test in exam would do better. But it's inequitable the other way, too. Where those bright kids who actually like and are interested in school wind up in programs where all the school can do is cater to the kids who are struggling and don't want to be there.

[Anonymous]

For the kid it might be 20 minutes in the morning to school but the parent has to then return home another 20 minutes so that at minimum is 40 minute in the morning. Except with traffic and waiting in a car line that can easily stretch to an hour total in the morning.

Then in the afternoon it’s another hour for the parent. At the age your kids are right now, no way is that worth spending two hours a day in the car.

[Anonymous]

Equity goals can’t inconvenience people. It’s that simple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Equity goals can’t inconvenience people. It’s that simple.

It would crater the tax base and the schools would suffer for your made uo equity goal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing you may not realize when your kids are very young is that there's tons of good options when it comes to elementary schools, but as the child ages, the options get much, much worse. DCI is a massive improvement over MacFarland and Roosevelt, and a 20 minute commute seems fairly normal. And there's not a huge price difference between living in Petworth and living in Brightwood/Takoma/Shepherd Park, and you could end up moving closer to DCI eventually.

So true. Everyone is fighting for access to OOB schools, not because that school is much better than the neighborhood school, but because the guaranteed Middle is superior. The lottery here is infuriating. Maybe this could be fixed by getting rid of all guaranteed spots and having every middle be lottery.

You're frustrated by your little scramble in elementary school and your solution is to burn down the city.

making all spots in all dcps schools subject to the lottery would be a whole lot fairer than what we do now, where we auction off spaces in the most desirable schools via housing prices while the least desirable schools are half empty. some of these schools are extremely underenrolled.

It works for charters, of course, and has for many years, but somehow, someway it would be just impossible for DCPS too.

That’s not how charters work. Parents have to opt in to lottery into a charter. The parent has to be knowledgeable enough about the due dates, platforms, etc. A large portion of DC children do not live with parents who do that, for many different reasons.

What PP is suggesting is automatic lottery for every enrolled kid at any school. People would move out of DC in that scenario.

The only people who would move would be Janney and Deal and JR parents worried that undesirables (ie poor black kids) would be joining their schools.

They would move because they would lottery into schools across town and that's not what they signed up for. This has happened in other cities.

Yikes. You have literally no clue how the lottery works, do you? That's not how it works at all.

The lottery is modeled after the system that's used to place doctors in residencies. You name your top 12 choices, in your order of preference. If you match with your number one school, then you're in. If not, you go to your No. 2 school. If you don't match there, you go to your No. 3 school. You can't match to a school that you didn't pick, and most people pick schools that are near them. This notion that people are going to get stuck in schools they didnt pick that are way across town is not even possible.

Yes it is possible. Look up how the San Francisco lottery worked. I assume DC would do the same. The problem with this lottery versus the current one or your residency example is that you can strike out at all of your choices. If DC goes full lottery system, they must place a kid at a school. So if your top 12 are full based on other criteria (which usually takes into account SES and then sibling preference) you can end up at a random school with spots available.

I'm pretty sure this is how HS works in NYC too. You list your top 12, but if you don't match at any of them you get randomly placed and the random placement can be anywhere in the city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the kid it might be 20 minutes in the morning to school but the parent has to then return home another 20 minutes so that at minimum is 40 minute in the morning. Except with traffic and waiting in a car line that can easily stretch to an hour total in the morning.

Then in the afternoon it’s another hour for the parent. At the age your kids are right now, no way is that worth spending two hours a day in the car.

Lol. Do you have a teenager??!! My kid takes public transit to/from school but yet I still spend hours upon hours driving every week taking him to see friends he wants to hang out with and activities he wants to participate in. This. Is. Parenting. 20 min to/from is nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Equity goals can’t inconvenience people. It’s that simple.

It would crater the tax base and the schools would suffer for your made uo equity goal.

Pfft. Half the kids in this city already participate in a school lottery. There's nothing magical about the other half.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing you may not realize when your kids are very young is that there's tons of good options when it comes to elementary schools, but as the child ages, the options get much, much worse. DCI is a massive improvement over MacFarland and Roosevelt, and a 20 minute commute seems fairly normal. And there's not a huge price difference between living in Petworth and living in Brightwood/Takoma/Shepherd Park, and you could end up moving closer to DCI eventually.

So true. Everyone is fighting for access to OOB schools, not because that school is much better than the neighborhood school, but because the guaranteed Middle is superior. The lottery here is infuriating. Maybe this could be fixed by getting rid of all guaranteed spots and having every middle be lottery.

You're frustrated by your little scramble in elementary school and your solution is to burn down the city.

making all spots in all dcps schools subject to the lottery would be a whole lot fairer than what we do now, where we auction off spaces in the most desirable schools via housing prices while the least desirable schools are half empty. some of these schools are extremely underenrolled.

It works for charters, of course, and has for many years, but somehow, someway it would be just impossible for DCPS too.

Damn, you are so stupid. It works for charter because people are opting in. The citywide lottery would be forcing people out of their neighborhood school.

So much of the revival of the city was due to an impression that schools were improving, allowing more parents with young kids to stay. (The impression was overly optimistic at the time but it still worked). This would be over.

What are you even talking about? The only schools that would see a significant impact would be Ward 3 schools. No one is clamoring to go to DCPS schools east of the park. Also, you have your history completely wrong. The reason parents east of the park now don't move when their kids get to school age, is because of the lottery and charters give them lots of good options. The only part of the city were people are super into DCPS is Ward 3.

San Francisco did this and it was an epic disaster that pushed upper income families out of the public school system and increased segregation. They are now admitting that it was a disaster and going back to neighborhood schools.

https://www.sfusd.edu/schools/enroll/student-assignment-policy/student-assignment-changes

I would leave neighborhood elementary alone, but then start all (dcps and charter) middles at 6th. Everything lottery or test in with no special feeders. These kids are old enough to use transit. The neighborhood model just isn’t as relevant as they get older. That would address the issue of having to lateral to a similar OOB elementary just to get a feeder spot.

You likely say this because you don't like your IB middle school option. Which I get -- I don't like mine either and my kid won't go there. But a pure lottery would create chaos. It also diminishes the incentive people have to invest in neighborhood schools, which is pretty much the only ways that DCPS schools become desirable places to attend, even at the MS and HS level -- community investment.

I do like the idea of test in schools at the MS and HS level. I think one of the biggest issues in the city is there are lots of kids who are capable and academically inclined but who have limited or no access to an academically rigorous MS or HS. A true magnet school system with test in could address their needs. And yes, this would result in some inequities because kids whose families could help them prepare for the test in exam would do better. But it's inequitable the other way, too. Where those bright kids who actually like and are interested in school wind up in programs where all the school can do is cater to the kids who are struggling and don't want to be there.

There would be no neighborhood schools after elementary. But not sure that would mean disinvestment at the middle school level--we have excellent middle schools that are non-neighborhood and difficult to lottery into. People would self sort similar to how Latin and Basis work now.

[Anonymous]

Equity efforts are bound to fail.