Juan Williams: I'm not a bigot. NPR: Yes you are

[Anonymous]

apartheid, holocaust, slavery, and the list goes on. i double your snort. snort, snort

[Anonymous]

The Klu Klux Klan are the most peaceful christians around

[Anonymous]

Sure, some Christians are peaceful and some are nasty pieces of work. I'm fine when people say that.

But why does the default position have to be that all Muslims are peaceful, and if you say otherwise you are a bigot?

[Anonymous]

13:45 again. Just want to clarify that I'm the poster who read the Koran, not suitcase-bomber poster. My point is that the treatment of non-Muslims is not black and white and you should read the Koran and form your own conclusions.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:But why does the default position have to be that all Muslims are peaceful, and if you say otherwise you are a bigot?

Can you point to one person who believes that all Muslims are peaceful? You guys are the kings (or queens) of red herrings. What started this discussion was the assumption that the default position is that all Muslims are potential terrorists.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But why does the default position have to be that all Muslims are peaceful, and if you say otherwise you are a bigot?

Can you point to one person who believes that all Muslims are peaceful? You guys are the kings (or queens) of red herrings. What started this discussion was the assumption that the default position is that all Muslims are potential terrorists.

With all due respect, the question is not whether someone said all Muslims are peaceful - that's a red herring. The question is whether it's socially permissible, especially in the liberal circles that you and I belong to, to say that some Muslims are *not* peaceful. If we can't say that without being called bigots then yes, we have a default way of talking about Muslims.

Also, I don't think Williams said ALL muslims are potential terrorists - that too is a red herring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But why does the default position have to be that all Muslims are peaceful, and if you say otherwise you are a bigot?

Can you point to one person who believes that all Muslims are peaceful? You guys are the kings (or queens) of red herrings. What started this discussion was the assumption that the default position is that all Muslims are potential terrorists.

With all due respect, the question is not whether someone said all Muslims are peaceful - that's a red herring. The question is whether it's socially permissible, especially in the liberal circles that you and I belong to, to say that some Muslims are *not* peaceful. If we can't say that without being called bigots then yes, we have a default way of talking about Muslims.

Also, I don't think Williams said ALL muslims are potential terrorists - that too is a red herring.

I'm not so sure about that. My husband and kids are Muslim, and while my daughters are too young to wear hijab and we're not that relgious anyway, if either one of them decides to wear hijab later, it seems like Mr. Williams would be pretty nervous about boarding a plane with her already on it. To me, that means he's fearful of anyone who looks Muslim, and can we all agree that's a much larger universe than who is actually a dangerous Muslim?

Of course you can say that some Muslims are terrorists. It's all in the way you say it. Saying Islam itself is at war with the West is untrue. Saying some crazy, power-hungry Islamists are at war with us is much closer to the mark.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
With all due respect, the question is not whether someone said all Muslims are peaceful - that's a red herring. The question is whether it's socially permissible, especially in the liberal circles that you and I belong to, to say that some Muslims are *not* peaceful. If we can't say that without being called bigots then yes, we have a default way of talking about Muslims.

Also, I don't think Williams said ALL muslims are potential terrorists - that too is a red herring.

Of course it is permissible to say that some Muslims are not peaceful. What would give you the idea that it is not? Do you think that I think Bin Laden is peaceful? I lived in Kuwait during the Iran-Iraq War and could hear the artillery shells constantly. I was woken up by an Iranian missile hitting a Kuwaiti oil rig. I know very well that not all Muslims are peaceful and I've never suggested otherwise.

What Williams did was tell O'Reilly he was right when O'Reilly said that we had a Muslim problem that was huge. Not a problem with some Muslims, but a Muslim problem. Then, Williams not only admitted, but justified his fear of Muslims dressed in traditional attire. While that is not all Muslims, it seems to be all Muslims that he can identify as Muslim.

This is on top of O'Reilly having been berated on the View for essentially not being able to distinguish between all Muslims and some Muslims and Brian Kilmeade -- also of Fox News -- saying that all Muslims are terrorists.

[Anonymous]

I'm curious: have you yourself read the Koran? What do think about some of the statements about the treatment of non-Muslims, polytheists (OK to kill) and dhimmis? And apostates, who are killed.

I'm asking because I've known lots of Muslims but have always been afraid to bring this up with them. And it seems the press largely talks around it. Under the cover of anonymity, I can ask you.

[Anonymous]

Who are you asking?

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
With all due respect, the question is not whether someone said all Muslims are peaceful - that's a red herring. The question is whether it's socially permissible, especially in the liberal circles that you and I belong to, to say that some Muslims are *not* peaceful. If we can't say that without being called bigots then yes, we have a default way of talking about Muslims.

Also, I don't think Williams said ALL muslims are potential terrorists - that too is a red herring.

Of course it is permissible to say that some Muslims are not peaceful. What would give you the idea that it is not? Do you think that I think Bin Laden is peaceful? I lived in Kuwait during the Iran-Iraq War and could hear the artillery shells constantly. I was woken up by an Iranian missile hitting a Kuwaiti oil rig. I know very well that not all Muslims are peaceful and I've never suggested otherwise.

What Williams did was tell O'Reilly he was right when O'Reilly said that we had a Muslim problem that was huge. Not a problem with some Muslims, but a Muslim problem. Then, Williams not only admitted, but justified his fear of Muslims dressed in traditional attire. While that is not all Muslims, it seems to be all Muslims that he can identify as Muslim.

Well you got me there. I don't watch Fox.

This is on top of O'Reilly having been berated on the View for essentially not being able to distinguish between all Muslims and some Muslims and Brian Kilmeade -- also of Fox News -- saying that all Muslims are terrorists.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious: have you yourself read the Koran? What do think about some of the statements about the treatment of non-Muslims, polytheists (OK to kill) and dhimmis? And apostates, who are killed.

I'm asking because I've known lots of Muslims but have always been afraid to bring this up with them. And it seems the press largely talks around it. Under the cover of anonymity, I can ask you.

Yes, I have read the Quran in both Arabic and English. I am not Muslim. I don't believe the Quran is the word of God as spoken through Muhammad. I find the Quran nearly impossible to understand in any language. What is more important are the specific teachings of various religious leaders. In that respect, it is not that much different than Christianity. There are many things in the Bible that are not generally discussed and/or outright ignored. The Bible condones slavery, for instance. But, unless you can find a preacher supporting slavery, that is not really important to today's Christianity.

In my experience living among Muslims, the "people of the book" are tolerated without much difficulty. Even in Iran today, allowances are made for Jews and Christians. The problem is with the rest. That becomes more of a cultural issue than a religious one and is handled differently from place to place. But, just in case there is any confusion, I condemn any discrimination on any basis and I have that argument repeatedly with Muslim friends.

[Anonymous]

J Steele, thanks for a forthright and detailed answer. (I was a bit afraid of getting blasted for asking.)

You seem to be at about the same place I am. I haven't lived in a Muslim country but I have lived for long periods abroad and have known many Muslims. Most of my friends, as in your experience, do not take the koran as the literal word of god. And BTW, as a Christian I'm also interested in alternative views of the bible, especially non-literal, with a historical angle, and liberation theology. It's the literalists in any religion who cause trouble.

[Anonymous]

PS, I'm impressed you read the Koran in Arabic.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:PS, I'm impressed you read the Koran in Arabic.

I make no claims to have actually understood what I was reading.