What would anyone work so hard to get into a top college if it doesn’t lead to a better career?

[Anonymous]

It’s not just DCUM that is obsessed with prestige. Many people LOVE to brag even if it’s nothing worth bragging about. These are the kinds of people who want their kids to get into prestigious colleges.

E.g., I met a new acquaintance for lunch and had to listen to just how great her husband was and how her son had two internships for the summer, not just one. This after she asked about my kid’s ECs and I answered with “internship”. She just had to keep on going and going. I could have easily told her my kid’s internship was full-time but I realized how insecure she was and it didn’t matter to me. They just cannot stand it if they perceive you as being more successful than them. It’s a constant “I’m so good, my family is so good, etc.” Her son is a HS senior and I cannot wait to see where he gets in! She had a college consultant, had joined AN and still offered me money for advice — nope, I did not take it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, no one is getting jobs now…

No. Only top school students are getting the good jobs. The unemployment rate for ivies is much lower than for T30s, and the salary of first job has stayed roughly the same or slight drop at ivy/stanford while it is down at T30 and below.
Companies are going to their target schools for job hires more than ever. School reputation and rigor is more important than ever.

Data for this please. Or are you pulling it out of your a$$?

Not PP, who probably chose not to respond based on how crudely you posed your query. But this has been the subject of multiple articles lately, so it's been in everyone's news feed in some form.

https://fortune.com/2026/01/06/recruiting-college-isnt-dead-top-schools-not-talent-is-everywhere/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep reading that where you go to college doesn’t matter for jobs. If that’s the case why would anyone bend over backwards to get into a good college?

For the peer challenge, for one reason.

Second, for the ivy+ schools (ivies stanford MIT Duke Chicago) it has been shown that attending increases the chances for the top levels of certain career paths, ie topmost med schools, top law, top consulting, quantitative finance.

The next set of schools were not studied specifically but likely provide a next-best boost (WAS, JHU, Northwestern, WashU, Rice, UCB, CMU, 4-5 more)

It matters.

This is great. The next set “we’re not studied” but “likely” provide a “boost” so the conclusion that “it matters” is supported with no actual evidence.

yup and most of the time it is NOT the school they attend, but their family/friend connections that get them this. Smart kids will do well no matter where they go. Only a very few benefit from the added connections at a T20 school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One reason to aim for T20 is that some kids feed off of the motivation/energy of the kids around them.

DD went T20 and is surrounded by bright, motivated kids like her who study hard but also enjoy their lives outside of their studies. This was the vibe we were hoping for, and she is really happy.

I hope you realize that you can get that same vibe at many schools in the 25-50/60 range as well. My kid is at one ranked ~40 (used to be low 30s for decades before class sizes didn't matter anymore). Of their group of 20+ friends, EVERYONE was WL/Spring Start/Fall Soph start at a minimum of 2 T25 schools. Same goes for over 40-50% of the students they are in classes with (and engineering kids are already very smart). They are surrounded by bright, motivated kids, but they just were part of the 90-95% who don't get admitted to T25 schools. Same goes for my kid's 2nd choice. Both schools are literally known for this---it's a running joke, and there are articles every year in the school newspapers/etc about this. You don't have to attend a T25 to be surrounded by bright, motivated kids.

That sounds great!

It would help many of us to know the names of the schools you're describing. NOT to quibble or argue with you in any way about those schools, though I recognize that some others might do that. But because many of us are trying to expand our knowledge and thinking beyond the T20 schools that are way over-represented in discussions on this board.

Well, basically any private school in the T60-70 (think smaller, not huge state U).

The specifics are U Rochester and CWRU. Literally filled with T25 "Wannabes"/"rejects". Life goes on and they excel where they end up and do just as well. My kid is in for grad school at everywhere they applied, including on the levels of CMU/MIT/Stanford for AI/ENgineering (in at two of those). Same applies to many from both of those schools...they go on to do grad work at T20 schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One reason to aim for T20 is that some kids feed off of the motivation/energy of the kids around them.

DD went T20 and is surrounded by bright, motivated kids like her who study hard but also enjoy their lives outside of their studies. This was the vibe we were hoping for, and she is really happy.

I hope you realize that you can get that same vibe at many schools in the 25-50/60 range as well. My kid is at one ranked ~40 (used to be low 30s for decades before class sizes didn't matter anymore). Of their group of 20+ friends, EVERYONE was WL/Spring Start/Fall Soph start at a minimum of 2 T25 schools. Same goes for over 40-50% of the students they are in classes with (and engineering kids are already very smart). They are surrounded by bright, motivated kids, but they just were part of the 90-95% who don't get admitted to T25 schools. Same goes for my kid's 2nd choice. Both schools are literally known for this---it's a running joke, and there are articles every year in the school newspapers/etc about this. You don't have to attend a T25 to be surrounded by bright, motivated kids.

If your student is a 99th%ile-99.99%ile student, they cannot get the same vibe at a school as you describe.
They would not fit in with 20+ friends who all were WL at T25. The 40-50% of students are the average kids there: by the data they are mostly 90th-95%ile kids, "bright and motivated" compared to the average student at MSU, Auburn, but would all be significantly below average at a T15/ivy and the rest of the T20 or T5-8 LACs. Great they found their fit, but academic and motivational fit is all relative. Ours know enough students from their HS who go to T50 level and they simply would not fit academically.
Our older 2 kids private school and their sibling's public top magnet each have median SAT around 1400. Based on WISC scores at the private and similar nationally normed test ranges shared by colleagues at the magnet, the 1400 (superscored) correlates well to the fact that we know the median IQ range is around 122. Of course SAT is not IQ but the two correlate, with the SAT skewed higher percentile-wise due to superscoring and extra time.
The ability level of the top 15% is 99%ile or higher. The median students are TWO math levels below the top 15-20%kids and do not get into AP Physics C or AP chem because they do not do well enough in the first physics and chem classes at these high schools, taught and tracked by many phD teachers who lead the departments and have decades of experience teaching the 85-99.9 to understand the wide variety of intellectual ability in that range.
The level of writing of a 93%ile student is different than a 99+%ile. Ask any teacher or professor. A 93rd%ile student is not in the same league with a 99%ile.
There is nothing at all wrong with the very top students wanting to be surrounded by predominantly similar intellects. Only on DCUM do parents have to brag about finding "fit" at lower ranked schools and curse the parents who know their kids best fit is at the ivy/elite schools.

If your "99% kid" cannot fit in and learn from being around other kids who have 1500+/3.9+/8AP+ resumes and are also curious about learning, then your kid will have a hard time in real life. Because they will be working with and FOR someone who went to UMBC/JMU/Towson and have to learn to somehow function. In fact those people might be their boss and might make more than them.

[Anonymous]

Maybe they just like the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One reason to aim for T20 is that some kids feed off of the motivation/energy of the kids around them.

DD went T20 and is surrounded by bright, motivated kids like her who study hard but also enjoy their lives outside of their studies. This was the vibe we were hoping for, and she is really happy.

I hope you realize that you can get that same vibe at many schools in the 25-50/60 range as well. My kid is at one ranked ~40 (used to be low 30s for decades before class sizes didn't matter anymore). Of their group of 20+ friends, EVERYONE was WL/Spring Start/Fall Soph start at a minimum of 2 T25 schools. Same goes for over 40-50% of the students they are in classes with (and engineering kids are already very smart). They are surrounded by bright, motivated kids, but they just were part of the 90-95% who don't get admitted to T25 schools. Same goes for my kid's 2nd choice. Both schools are literally known for this---it's a running joke, and there are articles every year in the school newspapers/etc about this. You don't have to attend a T25 to be surrounded by bright, motivated kids.

If your student is a 99th%ile-99.99%ile student, they cannot get the same vibe at a school as you describe.
They would not fit in with 20+ friends who all were WL at T25. The 40-50% of students are the average kids there: by the data they are mostly 90th-95%ile kids, "bright and motivated" compared to the average student at MSU, Auburn, but would all be significantly below average at a T15/ivy and the rest of the T20 or T5-8 LACs. Great they found their fit, but academic and motivational fit is all relative. Ours know enough students from their HS who go to T50 level and they simply would not fit academically.
Our older 2 kids private school and their sibling's public top magnet each have median SAT around 1400. Based on WISC scores at the private and similar nationally normed test ranges shared by colleagues at the magnet, the 1400 (superscored) correlates well to the fact that we know the median IQ range is around 122. Of course SAT is not IQ but the two correlate, with the SAT skewed higher percentile-wise due to superscoring and extra time.
The ability level of the top 15% is 99%ile or higher. The median students are TWO math levels below the top 15-20%kids and do not get into AP Physics C or AP chem because they do not do well enough in the first physics and chem classes at these high schools, taught and tracked by many phD teachers who lead the departments and have decades of experience teaching the 85-99.9 to understand the wide variety of intellectual ability in that range.
The level of writing of a 93%ile student is different than a 99+%ile. Ask any teacher or professor. A 93rd%ile student is not in the same league with a 99%ile.
There is nothing at all wrong with the very top students wanting to be surrounded by predominantly similar intellects. Only on DCUM do parents have to brag about finding "fit" at lower ranked schools and curse the parents who know their kids best fit is at the ivy/elite schools.

If your "99% kid" cannot fit in and learn from being around other kids who have 1500+/3.9+/8AP+ resumes and are also curious about learning, then your kid will have a hard time in real life. Because they will be working with and FOR someone who went to UMBC/JMU/Towson and have to learn to somehow function. In fact those people might be their boss and might make more than them.

A lot of companies and industries are filled to the brim with the top of the top. You really don’t have to work with stupid people if you don’t desire to.

[Anonymous]

Because a top college offers a higher probability of a better career (with the understanding that nothing is guaranteed).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep reading that where you go to college doesn’t matter for jobs. If that’s the case why would anyone bend over backwards to get into a good college?

For the peer challenge, for one reason.

Second, for the ivy+ schools (ivies stanford MIT Duke Chicago) it has been shown that attending increases the chances for the top levels of certain career paths, ie topmost med schools, top law, top consulting, quantitative finance.

The next set of schools were not studied specifically but likely provide a next-best boost (WAS, JHU, Northwestern, WashU, Rice, UCB, CMU, 4-5 more)

It matters.

This is great. The next set “we’re not studied” but “likely” provide a “boost” so the conclusion that “it matters” is supported with no actual evidence.

"Increasing the chances" is a near meaningless way of looking at data to the point that it's hokum. The Ivy League has a higher percentage of top students across all American universities so is it a chicken or egg situation?

I went to a midlevel Ivy. I work at a F500 in a fairly senior role. Few people of my rank and above have Ivy degrees and those will be mostly MBAs. Most went to state universities, particularly flagships.

I also attended a high performing private school and my class of 80 had 12 matriculate at the Ivy League plus one to Stanford and one to Duke. Plenty more went to the better LACs and Hopkins and Carniege Mellon and Chicago. Others went to nice flagship state universities. Broadly speaking, most of the Ivy grads didn't end up "better" in life. Some of the most successful graduates from my high school went to state universities and were academic dullards but thrived in the real world, usually in sales of some kind while others have also done very well in insurance.

I don't pay any attention to how going to HYP+ jumpstarts your career. It can help but the amount it helps is much more limited than many people want to believe. The average Ivy grad ends up in the same place as a comparable student who went to a different school for whatever reasons.

What really accelerates people's careers is having the right EQ for your industry. Most Ivy students aren't going to have it. Your lackadaisal athlete who barely passes his classes but has a keen EQ from his sports career will advance over an Ivy grinder. Seen it happen plenty of times.

Will say the most formidable species in modern corporate America is ex female college atheletes who were also in sororities. Because that's EQ to the max.

[Anonymous]

To increase their intrinsic worth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s not just DCUM that is obsessed with prestige. Many people LOVE to brag even if it’s nothing worth bragging about. These are the kinds of people who want their kids to get into prestigious colleges.

E.g., I met a new acquaintance for lunch and had to listen to just how great her husband was and how her son had two internships for the summer, not just one. This after she asked about my kid’s ECs and I answered with “internship”. She just had to keep on going and going. I could have easily told her my kid’s internship was full-time but I realized how insecure she was and it didn’t matter to me. They just cannot stand it if they perceive you as being more successful than them. It’s a constant “I’m so good, my family is so good, etc.” Her son is a HS senior and I cannot wait to see where he gets in! She had a college consultant, had joined AN and still offered me money for advice — nope, I did not take it!

She probably didn't ask too much about you because you gave the impression that you didn't want to share. If I ask a friend what their kid is doing, and they just say "internship" instead of "internship at X" I'm going to assume they don't want to mention X and thus I won't pry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, no one is getting jobs now…

No. Only top school students are getting the good jobs. The unemployment rate for ivies is much lower than for T30s, and the salary of first job has stayed roughly the same or slight drop at ivy/stanford while it is down at T30 and below.
Companies are going to their target schools for job hires more than ever. School reputation and rigor is more important than ever.

Data for this please. Or are you pulling it out of your a$$?

Not PP, who probably chose not to respond based on how crudely you posed your query. But this has been the subject of multiple articles lately, so it's been in everyone's news feed in some form.

https://fortune.com/2026/01/06/recruiting-college-isnt-dead-top-schools-not-talent-is-everywhere/

+1
It is frustrating in some sense as three to four years ago companies were looking far outside of the targets. Now that TO is gone at almost all top schools, plus the poor economy, top schools carry more weight the next 5-10 yrs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, no one is getting jobs now…

No. Only top school students are getting the good jobs. The unemployment rate for ivies is much lower than for T30s, and the salary of first job has stayed roughly the same or slight drop at ivy/stanford while it is down at T30 and below.
Companies are going to their target schools for job hires more than ever. School reputation and rigor is more important than ever.

Data for this please. Or are you pulling it out of your a$$?

Not PP, who probably chose not to respond based on how crudely you posed your query. But this has been the subject of multiple articles lately, so it's been in everyone's news feed in some form.

https://fortune.com/2026/01/06/recruiting-college-isnt-dead-top-schools-not-talent-is-everywhere/

+1
It is frustrating in some sense as three to four years ago companies were looking far outside of the targets. Now that TO is gone at almost all top schools, plus the poor economy, top schools carry more weight the next 5-10 yrs

True. When it is easier to hire, i.e. hundreds to thousands applying for every job, hiring managers use easy signifiers to winnow down the field and college name/rank is chief among the factors. They will also revert to network hiring to avoid getting inundated with applications. My kid is at an Ivy and the outreach/jobs only advertised to these students is a bit shocking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One reason to aim for T20 is that some kids feed off of the motivation/energy of the kids around them.

DD went T20 and is surrounded by bright, motivated kids like her who study hard but also enjoy their lives outside of their studies. This was the vibe we were hoping for, and she is really happy.

I hope you realize that you can get that same vibe at many schools in the 25-50/60 range as well. My kid is at one ranked ~40 (used to be low 30s for decades before class sizes didn't matter anymore). Of their group of 20+ friends, EVERYONE was WL/Spring Start/Fall Soph start at a minimum of 2 T25 schools. Same goes for over 40-50% of the students they are in classes with (and engineering kids are already very smart). They are surrounded by bright, motivated kids, but they just were part of the 90-95% who don't get admitted to T25 schools. Same goes for my kid's 2nd choice. Both schools are literally known for this---it's a running joke, and there are articles every year in the school newspapers/etc about this. You don't have to attend a T25 to be surrounded by bright, motivated kids.

If your student is a 99th%ile-99.99%ile student, they cannot get the same vibe at a school as you describe.
They would not fit in with 20+ friends who all were WL at T25. The 40-50% of students are the average kids there: by the data they are mostly 90th-95%ile kids, "bright and motivated" compared to the average student at MSU, Auburn, but would all be significantly below average at a T15/ivy and the rest of the T20 or T5-8 LACs. Great they found their fit, but academic and motivational fit is all relative. Ours know enough students from their HS who go to T50 level and they simply would not fit academically.
Our older 2 kids private school and their sibling's public top magnet each have median SAT around 1400. Based on WISC scores at the private and similar nationally normed test ranges shared by colleagues at the magnet, the 1400 (superscored) correlates well to the fact that we know the median IQ range is around 122. Of course SAT is not IQ but the two correlate, with the SAT skewed higher percentile-wise due to superscoring and extra time.
The ability level of the top 15% is 99%ile or higher. The median students are TWO math levels below the top 15-20%kids and do not get into AP Physics C or AP chem because they do not do well enough in the first physics and chem classes at these high schools, taught and tracked by many phD teachers who lead the departments and have decades of experience teaching the 85-99.9 to understand the wide variety of intellectual ability in that range.
The level of writing of a 93%ile student is different than a 99+%ile. Ask any teacher or professor. A 93rd%ile student is not in the same league with a 99%ile.
There is nothing at all wrong with the very top students wanting to be surrounded by predominantly similar intellects. Only on DCUM do parents have to brag about finding "fit" at lower ranked schools and curse the parents who know their kids best fit is at the ivy/elite schools.

If your "99% kid" cannot fit in and learn from being around other kids who have 1500+/3.9+/8AP+ resumes and are also curious about learning, then your kid will have a hard time in real life. Because they will be working with and FOR someone who went to UMBC/JMU/Towson and have to learn to somehow function. In fact those people might be their boss and might make more than them.

It is not about 99+%ile having a career around all types, it is about the specific college learning environment. Professors teach to the average student, ask several and they will tell you. Attending a school where the average student is significantly below lowers the difficulty of the classes due to depth and pacing differences.
We all know students who were "average" (ie around 1400) at top regional high schools that then attended UTK or Auburn or NCSU and found courses to be easier than high school and they cruised to a 3.9+. There is grade inflation at all colleges, not merely the top ones. Graduate/professional schools and companies understand the peer group differences. 3.7 or 3.8 from an elite school means a whole lot more than a 3.9+ at a non-elite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, no one is getting jobs now…

No. Only top school students are getting the good jobs. The unemployment rate for ivies is much lower than for T30s, and the salary of first job has stayed roughly the same or slight drop at ivy/stanford while it is down at T30 and below.
Companies are going to their target schools for job hires more than ever. School reputation and rigor is more important than ever.

Data for this please. Or are you pulling it out of your a$$?

Not PP, who probably chose not to respond based on how crudely you posed your query. But this has been the subject of multiple articles lately, so it's been in everyone's news feed in some form.

https://fortune.com/2026/01/06/recruiting-college-isnt-dead-top-schools-not-talent-is-everywhere/

+1
It is frustrating in some sense as three to four years ago companies were looking far outside of the targets. Now that TO is gone at almost all top schools, plus the poor economy, top schools carry more weight the next 5-10 yrs

True. When it is easier to hire, i.e. hundreds to thousands applying for every job, hiring managers use easy signifiers to winnow down the field and college name/rank is chief among the factors. They will also revert to network hiring to avoid getting inundated with applications. My kid is at an Ivy and the outreach/jobs only advertised to these students is a bit shocking.

Yes. Same. It is jaw dropping sometimes.