Integration and DC Schools -- A high priority? Yay or nay?

[Anonymous]

Here is reality.

I don’t care about integration. It’s bad and hard enough to navigate getting your kid a decent education in this town as an EOTP family.

All I care about is that my kid is learning and being challenged and happy. Doesn’t matter race of the kids that much.

And no, I’m not white either.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Many Charters are super integrated. Even the fancy ones -- BASIS, DCI and Latin fit the actual definition of integrated (no one race more than 70 percent of the population).

Other charters are not integrated but at serving their low-income populations better than the DCPS schools (like DC Prep getting everyone into college).

DCPS schools in gentrifying neighborhoods are sometimes integrated and there is an opportunity here to be a model. Like I feel Garrison actually serves all demographics well.

Other DCPS schools are not integrated because the housing is segregated. Do people really want to run busses between Ward 3 and EOTR or something? This sounds like a mess.

BASIS might meet the letter of the law definition of integration, but I don't think a school with 6% of students at risk in a city with a public student population that's 45% at risk is actually what anybody is talking about when they say integration.

Pffft.

At least it's possible for very poor children to attend BASIS.

Jackson-Reid, Janney, Murch, Deal, etc. all impose de facto wealth tests on their students. If your parents can't afford a house in Ward 3, sorry you have to go somewhere else!

Make every seat in every school in the city a lottery seat. Issue solved.

No, this is the dumbest idea. Neighborhood schools create communities and foster friendships between neighbors.

It's how rich white people keep undesirables out of their schools.

Someone's never met any rich black people

You think you're school is diverse if there's a black surgeon? In a city where 20 percent live under the poverty line? We'll put you down as not actually caring about integration.

Everyone wants a good safe community building neighborhood school.

The problem is not the parents. The problem is DC lacks the spine to make schools safe and everyone knows it. Regardless of race, if I feel like others can totally ignore the social contract and get away with it, or worse blame me and my kids for the problems other kids are causing (not as frequent as it used to be!), I’m not going to stick around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many Charters are super integrated. Even the fancy ones -- BASIS, DCI and Latin fit the actual definition of integrated (no one race more than 70 percent of the population).

Other charters are not integrated but at serving their low-income populations better than the DCPS schools (like DC Prep getting everyone into college).

DCPS schools in gentrifying neighborhoods are sometimes integrated and there is an opportunity here to be a model. Like I feel Garrison actually serves all demographics well.

Other DCPS schools are not integrated because the housing is segregated. Do people really want to run busses between Ward 3 and EOTR or something? This sounds like a mess.

BASIS might meet the letter of the law definition of integration, but I don't think a school with 6% of students at risk in a city with a public student population that's 45% at risk is actually what anybody is talking about when they say integration.

Pffft.

At least it's possible for very poor children to attend BASIS.

Jackson-Reid, Janney, Murch, Deal, etc. all impose de facto wealth tests on their students. If your parents can't afford a house in Ward 3, sorry you have to go somewhere else!

Make every seat in every school in the city a lottery seat. Issue solved.

No, this is the dumbest idea. Neighborhood schools create communities and foster friendships between neighbors.

It's how rich white people keep undesirables out of their schools.

Someone's never met any rich black people

You think you're school is diverse if there's a black surgeon? In a city where 20 percent live under the poverty line? We'll put you down as not actually caring about integration.

Everyone wants a good safe community building neighborhood school.

The problem is not the parents. The problem is DC lacks the spine to make schools safe and everyone knows it. Regardless of race, if I feel like others can totally ignore the social contract and get away with it, or worse blame me and my kids for the problems other kids are causing (not as frequent as it used to be!), I’m not going to stick around.

The behaviors in DCPS is just out of control. The BS restoration justice crap doesn’t work. There are just no consequences and kids know they can do what they want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Until the city is more integrated, the public schools won't be. Take a look at the charters and the specialized high schools, which are generally more integrated.

Agree with this -- when neighborhoods are segregated, so are schools, and the solutions if you don't integrate neighborhoods aren't very appealing.

I also think orgs like Empower Ed sometimes ignore a lot of the challenges with school integration that don't have much to do with racism or classism, but are just practical. Like that sometimes different racial and socio-economic demographics have different approaches to parenting and education, and to reconcile them, everyone has to give a little. Or that parents might ultimately decide it's not healthy for their kid to one of only a very small number of kids at their school of a specific demographic, not because they are racist, but because that can lead to unhealthy peer dynamics.

The lottery means that even if you shift boundaries in a way that makes the catchment more integrated, it might not lead to a more integrated school unless you address the above issues in a way that feels comfortable for people. But even as I'm writing this I'm hearing the objections (it's not about making white people comfortable, etc.). But actually comfort matters to everyone. You can't expect people to just be uncomfortable, indefinitely, especially when the system also provides them with other options.

Agree with you that a lot is ignored by EmpowerEd and their references to integration aren't very deep. But given that they've sometimes got the ear of council and a leading mayoral candidate, they are worth paying attention to -- especially if the next Mayor builds her education agenda on their ideas/platform.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many Charters are super integrated. Even the fancy ones -- BASIS, DCI and Latin fit the actual definition of integrated (no one race more than 70 percent of the population).

Other charters are not integrated but at serving their low-income populations better than the DCPS schools (like DC Prep getting everyone into college).

DCPS schools in gentrifying neighborhoods are sometimes integrated and there is an opportunity here to be a model. Like I feel Garrison actually serves all demographics well.

Other DCPS schools are not integrated because the housing is segregated. Do people really want to run busses between Ward 3 and EOTR or something? This sounds like a mess.

BASIS might meet the letter of the law definition of integration, but I don't think a school with 6% of students at risk in a city with a public student population that's 45% at risk is actually what anybody is talking about when they say integration.

Pffft.

At least it's possible for very poor children to attend BASIS.

Jackson-Reid, Janney, Murch, Deal, etc. all impose de facto wealth tests on their students. If your parents can't afford a house in Ward 3, sorry you have to go somewhere else!

The only schools with a lower at risk percentage than BASIS are Lafayette, Key, Janney, Stokes Brookland, and Mann.

I think it’s great that non Ward 3 families have at least a few middle school options without large at-risk populations.

Depends what you mean by large. BASIS is very low, but there are lots of middle and high schools in between that and the citywide average.

BASIS 6%
O-A 7%*
SWW 10%
Deal 11%
Latin MS 12%
Hardy 13%
Latin HS 14%
DCI 18%
Latin Cooper MS 19%
ITDS 21%*
Banneker 23%
CHML 24%*
J-R 26%
John Francis 27%*
S-H 27%
DESA 30%
McKinley HS 32%
CMI 36%*
Cap City MS 38%
MacArthur 39%
Sojourner Truth 42%
Cap City HS 42%
EL Haynes MS 43%
Center City Petworth 44%*
E-H 44%
Center City Congress Heights 45%*

*Includes PK-5, probably higher for MS

[Anonymous]

socioeconomically diverse public schools are big picture a really good thing. schools run better when a majority of the students are not economically at-risk and/or have a significant level of family/community support. but thats mostly keeping the often overlooked middle class of all races in dc public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many Charters are super integrated. Even the fancy ones -- BASIS, DCI and Latin fit the actual definition of integrated (no one race more than 70 percent of the population).

Other charters are not integrated but at serving their low-income populations better than the DCPS schools (like DC Prep getting everyone into college).

DCPS schools in gentrifying neighborhoods are sometimes integrated and there is an opportunity here to be a model. Like I feel Garrison actually serves all demographics well.

Other DCPS schools are not integrated because the housing is segregated. Do people really want to run busses between Ward 3 and EOTR or something? This sounds like a mess.

BASIS might meet the letter of the law definition of integration, but I don't think a school with 6% of students at risk in a city with a public student population that's 45% at risk is actually what anybody is talking about when they say integration.

Pffft.

At least it's possible for very poor children to attend BASIS.

Jackson-Reid, Janney, Murch, Deal, etc. all impose de facto wealth tests on their students. If your parents can't afford a house in Ward 3, sorry you have to go somewhere else!

Make every seat in every school in the city a lottery seat. Issue solved.

No, this is the dumbest idea. Neighborhood schools create communities and foster friendships between neighbors.

Than maybe only allow schools have neighborhood boundaries if they remove all zoning restrictrions? That would help create more diverse housing if the don't want outsider kids to lottery in.

[Anonymous]

Zoning restrictions aren’t creating segregation. Let developers do what they want without zoning and they will build more 1 and 2 bedroom apartments with lots of amenities to attract young people without children. They aren’t going to start building small affordable family friendly home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many Charters are super integrated. Even the fancy ones -- BASIS, DCI and Latin fit the actual definition of integrated (no one race more than 70 percent of the population).

Other charters are not integrated but at serving their low-income populations better than the DCPS schools (like DC Prep getting everyone into college).

DCPS schools in gentrifying neighborhoods are sometimes integrated and there is an opportunity here to be a model. Like I feel Garrison actually serves all demographics well.

Other DCPS schools are not integrated because the housing is segregated. Do people really want to run busses between Ward 3 and EOTR or something? This sounds like a mess.

BASIS might meet the letter of the law definition of integration, but I don't think a school with 6% of students at risk in a city with a public student population that's 45% at risk is actually what anybody is talking about when they say integration.

Pffft.

At least it's possible for very poor children to attend BASIS.

Jackson-Reid, Janney, Murch, Deal, etc. all impose de facto wealth tests on their students. If your parents can't afford a house in Ward 3, sorry you have to go somewhere else!

Make every seat in every school in the city a lottery seat. Issue solved.

No, this is the dumbest idea. Neighborhood schools create communities and foster friendships between neighbors.

Not saying I think this is a good idea, but eventually I think you'd reach an equilibrium with mostly neighborhood kids at schools. Commute time has natural selection effects. You see it with School Within School, a generally highly regarded citywide elementary whose student body is still mostly made up of kids from surrounding DCPS boundaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Zoning restrictions aren’t creating segregation. Let developers do what they want without zoning and they will build more 1 and 2 bedroom apartments with lots of amenities to attract young people without children. They aren’t going to start building small affordable family friendly home.

Agree but what I think matters more in this context is that consultant types have gotten the cause and effect completely opposite.

Housing prices are correlated with the perceived quality of schools. But it's not high housing costs that create good schools. It's good schools creating high housing costs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Zoning restrictions aren’t creating segregation. Let developers do what they want without zoning and they will build more 1 and 2 bedroom apartments with lots of amenities to attract young people without children. They aren’t going to start building small affordable family friendly home.

Agree but what I think matters more in this context is that consultant types have gotten the cause and effect completely opposite.

Housing prices are correlated with the perceived quality of schools. But it's not high housing costs that create good schools. It's good schools creating high housing costs.

What does make a school good?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Zoning restrictions aren’t creating segregation. Let developers do what they want without zoning and they will build more 1 and 2 bedroom apartments with lots of amenities to attract young people without children. They aren’t going to start building small affordable family friendly home.

Agree but what I think matters more in this context is that consultant types have gotten the cause and effect completely opposite.

Housing prices are correlated with the perceived quality of schools. But it's not high housing costs that create good schools. It's good schools creating high housing costs.

What does make a school good?

Happy teachers, a safe environment and a mutually respectful sense of community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Zoning restrictions aren’t creating segregation. Let developers do what they want without zoning and they will build more 1 and 2 bedroom apartments with lots of amenities to attract young people without children. They aren’t going to start building small affordable family friendly home.

Agree but what I think matters more in this context is that consultant types have gotten the cause and effect completely opposite.

Housing prices are correlated with the perceived quality of schools. But it's not high housing costs that create good schools. It's good schools creating high housing costs.

What does make a school good?

Happy teachers, a safe environment and a mutually respectful sense of community.

But not academic progress?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Zoning restrictions aren’t creating segregation. Let developers do what they want without zoning and they will build more 1 and 2 bedroom apartments with lots of amenities to attract young people without children. They aren’t going to start building small affordable family friendly home.

Agree but what I think matters more in this context is that consultant types have gotten the cause and effect completely opposite.

Housing prices are correlated with the perceived quality of schools. But it's not high housing costs that create good schools. It's good schools creating high housing costs.

What does make a school good?

Happy teachers, a safe environment and a mutually respectful sense of community.

But not academic progress?

Those are the things that lead to academic progress.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Zoning restrictions aren’t creating segregation. Let developers do what they want without zoning and they will build more 1 and 2 bedroom apartments with lots of amenities to attract young people without children. They aren’t going to start building small affordable family friendly home.

Agree but what I think matters more in this context is that consultant types have gotten the cause and effect completely opposite.

Housing prices are correlated with the perceived quality of schools. But it's not high housing costs that create good schools. It's good schools creating high housing costs.

What does make a school good?

Happy teachers, a safe environment and a mutually respectful sense of community.

But not academic progress?

Those are the things that lead to academic progress.

Eyeroll. That is how schools start up and have a nice preschool but then massively underperform their demographics academically.