Have you ever maintained a relationship/friendship with someone...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...who has done terrible things to other people?

It doesn't have to be Epstein-level crimes. Hopefully the number of people that evil are somewhat limited. Doesn't even have to be crimes. Maybe they cheat on their spouse, or are an abusive boss. Maybe they are cruel gossips. Anything that causes harm to other people.

Do you overlook behavior that harms others as long as the person isn't harming you?

Why?

Nope. Evil people hurt people because that's what evil people do. If you stick around, they'll ALWAYS get around to you eventually. I've seen it over and over again, and it's hard to feel sorry for the cronies who eventually become targets.

Nah, humanity isn't this black/white. It's way too easy, and intellectually lazy, to label people "evil". We've all got the capacity for evil, and we've all caused harm.

I disagree that all people have caused harm that can be categorized as "evil" though. Sure, everyone makes mistakes and I'm sure all people have hurt someone without intent before. I don't think all people have deliberately hurt someone else though. And even among people who have there are degrees of harm. I think (hope?) that everyone has a line somewhere and that behavior on the other side of that line would be enough for you to end a friendship. Like presumably (hopefully) you would not maintain a friendship with a murderer or a rapist. But would you maintain a friendship with... an embezzler? A drug dealer?

What if you found out your friend has spent all of HS and college bullying other girls over their weight and appearance? Or that your friend had knowingly spread an STD? What if you found out they routinely berated their kids for being lazy and stupid? Or that they used to take naked photos of their ex without them knowing? That they lied on their resume to get a job? Convinced a declining parent to disinherit a sibling? Was a doctor or therapist who broke confidentiality about their patients?

Where is your line?

My line for staying in some form of relationship with...

with a murderer - why did they murder? Self-defense, sure. Possibly for other reasons. Does military count as "murder"?
a rapist - highly unlikely. I'd hear them out, but I doubt there'd be much of anything I could hear that would justify or excuse this
an embezzler - depends on the circumstances, specifically why they did it/what they did with the funds
a drug dealer - what drugs? What circumstances? I have a close friend who used to sell homegrown weed. Great person, loyal friend, generous af
someone who bullied girls over their weight/appearance - unlikely. There's no circumstance I can think of that makes this necessary or a valid approach
knowingly spread an STI - unlikely. I don't like associating with cowards or people who selfishly put their wants ahead of the needs and safety of others
routinely berated their kids for being lazy/stupid - are the kids stupid? Does the parent have adequate support/resources/time off?
took non-consensual naked photos of an ex - unlikely. Selfish mistreatment of other people's bodies and boundaries seems to be a line for me.
lied on resume - How big a lie, and to what end?
convinced vulnerable parent to disinherit sibling - Maybe? Depends on the specifics, and the nature of the siblings' relationship(s). This seems pretty shady tho
doctor/therapist who broke confidentiality - Some clinical professionals are required to break confidentiality (e.g. threats to self, others), but just to gossip? No.

There's a lot of "it depends" baked into your question.

"It depends" is a fine answer, especially if you're willing to explain what it depends on. This is a thoughtful response. I wouldn't draw the lines exactly the way you would (I have no tolerance for people who verbally abuse their kids, because I grew up with parents like that and know the damage it does, so I'd call it out and expect it to change, and be willing to walk away if it didn't). But I find the mental exercise you did here useful.

I grew up with abusive parents, too. It took me a lot of therapy to really understand they were doing the best they could with the resources and skills they had. Nobody on this planet gets perfect parents. Not even Jesus. Parenting is basically and impossible job done by flawed humans. It's reasonable to call out the behavior, but calling out the behavior doesn't provide the support, resources, skillset, emotional regulation abilities, etc. Most parents know they're flawed, and admit they're not getting it right. At the same time, most people understand that saying the exact same thing for the 100th time is effing infuriating, especially if you're the only parent "on-duty".

As a pp upthread pointed out: it's not black/white.