Are DCPS PK3-4 programs more play-based or academic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids both did PK3 and PK4 at a Title 1 DCPS, not one on your list, within the past three years.

Their experience was pretty similar to the L-T poster above.

They have a theme each quarter. Themes have included: Insects, Trees, Tubes and Tunnels, Signs, Buildings, etc. The kids get really into the theme.

Rough schedule of the day (the order has changed a bit class to class and year to year):

Breakfast
Morning Meeting - they talk about weather, days of the week, who has a birthday coming, etc. There's always a "question of the day" that the kids answer through some hands-on-voting system (has differed class to class), like "which food do you like better, pizza or French fries" or similar.
Recess - they get two 30 min recesses outside each day, one in the morning, one after nap.
Centers - This is pretty much true play. They pick where they play - the library to look at books, "Dramatic Play" which is like dress up and the play kitchen, blocks, water table, sand table, art table, there's at least one center around the theme. This is a full hour.
Specials - This is basically the same as I remember from elementary school. Spanish, Art, Music, Library, Yoga, PE, etc rotating throughout the week.
"Twiggle Time" - this is their social-emotional learning time when they talk about feelings and stuff. The "mascot" is a turtle named Twiggle.
Lunch
Nap (90 mins for PK3, 60 mins for PK4)
ELA - They have a reading/writing block. I think it's about 30 mins a day, and they mostly seem to read a book, talk about the book, draw a picture based on a question about the book, and write their names. They also learn letters and their sounds.
2nd Recess
Closing circle

I think in PK4 they add a math time. It also has a funny name but I forget what.

My kids were both "ahead" and at the end of PK4, both could count to 100 and recognize all the numbers, knew the alphabet and all the sounds the letters made (including a handful of combos like Ch and Th), and could write all the letters (big and little) and numbers and write their full names (first, middle, and last).

My oldest could also do some basic addition (numbers under 10) and my youngest could read a little (but I think she mostly figured that out just from the sounds, I don't think they taught that).

And they had more strategies about calming their bodies and dealing with hard emotions than 99% of current adults, myself included, haha.

Overall, as a layman, it seemed very play-based to me, and a pretty reasonable amount of academics. I will say, at least for my kids (who were at home with a nanny before PK3) PK3 was EXHAUSTING. Partly because they struggled to nap in a group environment, and I think partially because it's just a lot for pretty little kids. Interestingly, my friends with daycare kids, who I would have guessed would have found the switch more smooth, also really struggled at least the first month or two. It's a BIG transition (way bigger than the switch to K, for example).

It’s a non title 1 right? What I don’t see in the schedule is Building Blocks (math), which is apparently mandatory for all pre-k teachers to use but maybe not.

They are missing whole group and small group instruction -which again is supposedly mandatory.

PP here. This is a title 1 school.

Building Blocks! That’s the funny name! Yes, they do that but I thought it started in PK4. I could be wrong about that. There is both whole group and small group during the ELA and Building Blocks, and I believe sometimes they will also have one of the “centers” be a small group instruction in reading and/or math.

This sounds like way too much academics. I don’t agree with all these mandates going down to ECE teachers about it.

My kid did not have any academics and did not know almost all of the stuff PP said above (counting to 100, addition, etc,.). He knew the alphabet and still could not read in K.

ECE was so much fun and inquisitive and they did cool things like build an aquarium, set up a broadcast station, lots of great field trips, etc..

Just finished elementary and top student.

My kid started reading in PK4. By K he had abundant, access to stories, culture, information, ideas because he was already a strong independent reader.

Becoming a "top student" was never the point of teaching him to read.

Way to totally miss the point which is by 3rd grade the kids who were not reading yet have caught up to your kid and there is no difference.

Spending too much time pushing reading early at the expense of play is of no benefit and you lose learning other more important skills discussed above.

If you look at studies, the kids in head start might be more ahead academically but all gains are lost later.

Okay, no. Not all gains are lost later. Some gains are less visible but then re-emerge when the kids are older. And academics are only one part of the purpose of Head Start. There's a lot of variety in Head Start research outcomes and PP is very wrong to make such broad, conclusory statements.

https://www.chalkbeat.org/2019/8/8/21108602/a-new-study-questions-whether-head-start-still-produces-long-run-gains-seen-in-past-research/

The 2019 study doesn’t disprove the value of play-based learning - it demonstrates the consequences of abandoning it. Head Start has been declining.

Head Start worked when it focused on comprehensive care, health, nutrition, family support, and developmentally appropriate activities. It stopped working when programs shifted toward academic instruction and “school readiness” benchmarks.

Gray suggests Head Start would work better if we removed the ‘schoolishness’ and reverted to greater focus on care - providing healthy meals, medical attention, a safe place to spend the day, and lots of opportunity to PLAY and explore with other kids.

That's not what you said before. You said "all gains are lost later". That claim is simply not supported by the research.

DCPS preschool is not really Head Start, btw. It's Head Start funded, and it's Head Start-y enough to qualify for funding in most years, except when some weird wrinkle came up recently. But the students who attend DCPS preschool, as a group, are not demographically the same as the kids in these Head Start studies. There are many low-income kids, but also a lot of higher-income kids, so the studies aren't directly applicable.

I'm sorry that you can't stand the idea of a little bit of direct literacy instruction. It must be hard to go through life so rigidly, thinking something will be harmful to your child when really it's not that big a deal. You'll be a lot happier in the public school system if you embrace the idea that different students have different needs, and different families have different preferences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids both did PK3 and PK4 at a Title 1 DCPS, not one on your list, within the past three years.

Their experience was pretty similar to the L-T poster above.

They have a theme each quarter. Themes have included: Insects, Trees, Tubes and Tunnels, Signs, Buildings, etc. The kids get really into the theme.

Rough schedule of the day (the order has changed a bit class to class and year to year):

Breakfast
Morning Meeting - they talk about weather, days of the week, who has a birthday coming, etc. There's always a "question of the day" that the kids answer through some hands-on-voting system (has differed class to class), like "which food do you like better, pizza or French fries" or similar.
Recess - they get two 30 min recesses outside each day, one in the morning, one after nap.
Centers - This is pretty much true play. They pick where they play - the library to look at books, "Dramatic Play" which is like dress up and the play kitchen, blocks, water table, sand table, art table, there's at least one center around the theme. This is a full hour.
Specials - This is basically the same as I remember from elementary school. Spanish, Art, Music, Library, Yoga, PE, etc rotating throughout the week.
"Twiggle Time" - this is their social-emotional learning time when they talk about feelings and stuff. The "mascot" is a turtle named Twiggle.
Lunch
Nap (90 mins for PK3, 60 mins for PK4)
ELA - They have a reading/writing block. I think it's about 30 mins a day, and they mostly seem to read a book, talk about the book, draw a picture based on a question about the book, and write their names. They also learn letters and their sounds.
2nd Recess
Closing circle

I think in PK4 they add a math time. It also has a funny name but I forget what.

My kids were both "ahead" and at the end of PK4, both could count to 100 and recognize all the numbers, knew the alphabet and all the sounds the letters made (including a handful of combos like Ch and Th), and could write all the letters (big and little) and numbers and write their full names (first, middle, and last).

My oldest could also do some basic addition (numbers under 10) and my youngest could read a little (but I think she mostly figured that out just from the sounds, I don't think they taught that).

And they had more strategies about calming their bodies and dealing with hard emotions than 99% of current adults, myself included, haha.

Overall, as a layman, it seemed very play-based to me, and a pretty reasonable amount of academics. I will say, at least for my kids (who were at home with a nanny before PK3) PK3 was EXHAUSTING. Partly because they struggled to nap in a group environment, and I think partially because it's just a lot for pretty little kids. Interestingly, my friends with daycare kids, who I would have guessed would have found the switch more smooth, also really struggled at least the first month or two. It's a BIG transition (way bigger than the switch to K, for example).

It’s a non title 1 right? What I don’t see in the schedule is Building Blocks (math), which is apparently mandatory for all pre-k teachers to use but maybe not.

They are missing whole group and small group instruction -which again is supposedly mandatory.

PP here. This is a title 1 school.

Building Blocks! That’s the funny name! Yes, they do that but I thought it started in PK4. I could be wrong about that. There is both whole group and small group during the ELA and Building Blocks, and I believe sometimes they will also have one of the “centers” be a small group instruction in reading and/or math.

This sounds like way too much academics. I don’t agree with all these mandates going down to ECE teachers about it.

My kid did not have any academics and did not know almost all of the stuff PP said above (counting to 100, addition, etc,.). He knew the alphabet and still could not read in K.

ECE was so much fun and inquisitive and they did cool things like build an aquarium, set up a broadcast station, lots of great field trips, etc..

Just finished elementary and top student.

My kid started reading in PK4. By K he had abundant, access to stories, culture, information, ideas because he was already a strong independent reader.

Becoming a "top student" was never the point of teaching him to read.

Way to totally miss the point which is by 3rd grade the kids who were not reading yet have caught up to your kid and there is no difference.

Spending too much time pushing reading early at the expense of play is of no benefit and you lose learning other more important skills discussed above.

If you look at studies, the kids in head start might be more ahead academically but all gains are lost later.

This is a weird take.

I also had a very early reader who is now a teenager and he just .. knows a LOT due to all the books he's read. Reading accumulates, and early readers learn more. This shouldn't be disparaged.

Yeah I understand the research but there seems to be a lot of just anti-academics not just pro-play.

This. There's a lot of Head Start research out there and it takes some expertise to interpret. But it's bizarre how people get so upset about 10 minutes of Heggerty or whatever. A is for apple and it won't kill ya to sing the alphabet song sometimes.

It's okay if some kids want to learn to read. Some kids mostly teach themselves to read and write if they're ahead of the class, and if they don't get instruction they can develop bad habits like not forming letters in the proper way, or pronouncing things phonetically that aren't phonetic in spoken English. They're better off with a little instruction to go with their enthusiasm.

I think you’re not getting the nuance here. Play is learning, it is academics -just not in the traditional sense. Songs/real music is imperative for learning.

I knew I should not have commented because there would be comments over generalizing or not getting the point. Especially because parents don’t want to feel like they failed or are failing their child.

We all do the best we can -obviously teacher too.

I know you did not read all the comments but I did state if a child is interested in reading it’s not going to harm them. What IS harmful is forcing ALL children to learn to read at 3/4 years old.

Your example’s aren’t disproving what I have stated. Again, the research is clear. Play is learning!

You seem to know the schedule of every T1 school ECE class and that none of them ever sing or do crafts or play or anything other than sit and do worksheets all day.

It's also incredibly offensive to people here to say it's ok you're failing your child you're doing your best and just don't want to admit it you're failing.

I think this board has an incredibly unfair view of teachers but this constantly belittling parents isn't helping.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not 10 minutes of academics. It is a couple of blocks so 1-2 hours?

Why are the adults running the show not looking at the research or understanding what is developmentally appropriate? Same with so much screen use so early in DCPS?

The big picture is that I don’t trust DCPS to know what is best for my kid. They obviously are not following best practices. I mean it doesn’t get any easier than ECE. If they don’t have best practices for this, there is little confidence IMO that they will for higher stakes in upper grades.

And the majority of parents on here at T1 schools who are actually making excuses and supporting this are not telling you is that they are playing the lottery every year for better schools. Things get worst past ECE.

Oh FFS. I very much doubt it's 1-2 hours. Maaaaaybe 1 hour, total, over a day in PK4 when-- remember-- most of the kids are 5 years old by the end.

T1 parents are not playing the lottery *because* of this. I was a T1 parent and I was 1000% fine with my kid learning letters and numbers, and I thought our T1 preschool was terrific in part because they taught some of the kids to read. I was playing the lottery for a better middle school.

No one I know that has played the lottery has done so for ECE, we have people coming in for ECE and K, it's entirely for MS and HS.

Two of six hours is just lunch/recess/nap and another hour or so is specials usually. So that assumes the spend 2/3 of the remaining time sitting at tables doing worksheets and if teachers can get four year olds to sit still for two straight hours I mean bless them I guess.

Absolutely you can. It’s never 2-3 hours straight. It’s broken into chunks.

Please provide a schedule that includes the mandated amount of time for lunch and recess, plus specials and a 90-minute nap, and all transitions, and still includes 2-3 hours of seat work. Don't forget potty breaks!

Eh, I’ll humor you.


8:20 -8:45 Breakfast + writing practice (5)

8:45-9-15 Morning meeting and read aloud/whole group lesson (20 min)
9:15-10:00 Centers and small groups
(15- 25 min per kid/ 10-15 min with each teacher). (25)

10-10:30 Recess

10:35 -11:05 - whole group math lesson (30)

11:05 - 1:50- Centers and small groups again (25)

11:50-12:20 Lunch
12:20-1:50 NAP
1:50 -2:00 Heggerty (10)
2:00-2:05Snack
2:05- 2:20 Literacy Whole Group (15)
2:20-3:05 Specials


There’s your 2+ hours. Also FYI my old school didn’t give the real schedule to parents in terms of how long small groups were and whole groups.

Bathroom is in centers. Nope no transition times except recess. And PK 4 the literacy block is 30 min longer. Yes snack was really 5 minutes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids both did PK3 and PK4 at a Title 1 DCPS, not one on your list, within the past three years.

Their experience was pretty similar to the L-T poster above.

They have a theme each quarter. Themes have included: Insects, Trees, Tubes and Tunnels, Signs, Buildings, etc. The kids get really into the theme.

Rough schedule of the day (the order has changed a bit class to class and year to year):

Breakfast
Morning Meeting - they talk about weather, days of the week, who has a birthday coming, etc. There's always a "question of the day" that the kids answer through some hands-on-voting system (has differed class to class), like "which food do you like better, pizza or French fries" or similar.
Recess - they get two 30 min recesses outside each day, one in the morning, one after nap.
Centers - This is pretty much true play. They pick where they play - the library to look at books, "Dramatic Play" which is like dress up and the play kitchen, blocks, water table, sand table, art table, there's at least one center around the theme. This is a full hour.
Specials - This is basically the same as I remember from elementary school. Spanish, Art, Music, Library, Yoga, PE, etc rotating throughout the week.
"Twiggle Time" - this is their social-emotional learning time when they talk about feelings and stuff. The "mascot" is a turtle named Twiggle.
Lunch
Nap (90 mins for PK3, 60 mins for PK4)
ELA - They have a reading/writing block. I think it's about 30 mins a day, and they mostly seem to read a book, talk about the book, draw a picture based on a question about the book, and write their names. They also learn letters and their sounds.
2nd Recess
Closing circle

I think in PK4 they add a math time. It also has a funny name but I forget what.

My kids were both "ahead" and at the end of PK4, both could count to 100 and recognize all the numbers, knew the alphabet and all the sounds the letters made (including a handful of combos like Ch and Th), and could write all the letters (big and little) and numbers and write their full names (first, middle, and last).

My oldest could also do some basic addition (numbers under 10) and my youngest could read a little (but I think she mostly figured that out just from the sounds, I don't think they taught that).

And they had more strategies about calming their bodies and dealing with hard emotions than 99% of current adults, myself included, haha.

Overall, as a layman, it seemed very play-based to me, and a pretty reasonable amount of academics. I will say, at least for my kids (who were at home with a nanny before PK3) PK3 was EXHAUSTING. Partly because they struggled to nap in a group environment, and I think partially because it's just a lot for pretty little kids. Interestingly, my friends with daycare kids, who I would have guessed would have found the switch more smooth, also really struggled at least the first month or two. It's a BIG transition (way bigger than the switch to K, for example).

It’s a non title 1 right? What I don’t see in the schedule is Building Blocks (math), which is apparently mandatory for all pre-k teachers to use but maybe not.

They are missing whole group and small group instruction -which again is supposedly mandatory.

PP here. This is a title 1 school.

Building Blocks! That’s the funny name! Yes, they do that but I thought it started in PK4. I could be wrong about that. There is both whole group and small group during the ELA and Building Blocks, and I believe sometimes they will also have one of the “centers” be a small group instruction in reading and/or math.

This sounds like way too much academics. I don’t agree with all these mandates going down to ECE teachers about it.

My kid did not have any academics and did not know almost all of the stuff PP said above (counting to 100, addition, etc,.). He knew the alphabet and still could not read in K.

ECE was so much fun and inquisitive and they did cool things like build an aquarium, set up a broadcast station, lots of great field trips, etc..

Just finished elementary and top student.

My kid started reading in PK4. By K he had abundant, access to stories, culture, information, ideas because he was already a strong independent reader.

Becoming a "top student" was never the point of teaching him to read.

Way to totally miss the point which is by 3rd grade the kids who were not reading yet have caught up to your kid and there is no difference.

Spending too much time pushing reading early at the expense of play is of no benefit and you lose learning other more important skills discussed above.

If you look at studies, the kids in head start might be more ahead academically but all gains are lost later.

This is a weird take.

I also had a very early reader who is now a teenager and he just .. knows a LOT due to all the books he's read. Reading accumulates, and early readers learn more. This shouldn't be disparaged.

Yeah I understand the research but there seems to be a lot of just anti-academics not just pro-play.

This. There's a lot of Head Start research out there and it takes some expertise to interpret. But it's bizarre how people get so upset about 10 minutes of Heggerty or whatever. A is for apple and it won't kill ya to sing the alphabet song sometimes.

It's okay if some kids want to learn to read. Some kids mostly teach themselves to read and write if they're ahead of the class, and if they don't get instruction they can develop bad habits like not forming letters in the proper way, or pronouncing things phonetically that aren't phonetic in spoken English. They're better off with a little instruction to go with their enthusiasm.

I think you’re not getting the nuance here. Play is learning, it is academics -just not in the traditional sense. Songs/real music is imperative for learning.

I knew I should not have commented because there would be comments over generalizing or not getting the point. Especially because parents don’t want to feel like they failed or are failing their child.

We all do the best we can -obviously teacher too.

I know you did not read all the comments but I did state if a child is interested in reading it’s not going to harm them. What IS harmful is forcing ALL children to learn to read at 3/4 years old.

Your example’s aren’t disproving what I have stated. Again, the research is clear. Play is learning!

You seem to know the schedule of every T1 school ECE class and that none of them ever sing or do crafts or play or anything other than sit and do worksheets all day.

It's also incredibly offensive to people here to say it's ok you're failing your child you're doing your best and just don't want to admit it you're failing.

I think this board has an incredibly unfair view of teachers but this constantly belittling parents isn't helping.

Where did I say you failed your kid, that’s a feeling you have! I said I didn’t want to say much because parents often feel that way.

This is why often teachers do not talk to parents because the first thing you do is get in your head and defensive about what you’re doing.

This isn’t about YOU! It’s about how DCPS is slowly ruining Pre-K!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not 10 minutes of academics. It is a couple of blocks so 1-2 hours?

Why are the adults running the show not looking at the research or understanding what is developmentally appropriate? Same with so much screen use so early in DCPS?

The big picture is that I don’t trust DCPS to know what is best for my kid. They obviously are not following best practices. I mean it doesn’t get any easier than ECE. If they don’t have best practices for this, there is little confidence IMO that they will for higher stakes in upper grades.

And the majority of parents on here at T1 schools who are actually making excuses and supporting this are not telling you is that they are playing the lottery every year for better schools. Things get worst past ECE.

Oh FFS. I very much doubt it's 1-2 hours. Maaaaaybe 1 hour, total, over a day in PK4 when-- remember-- most of the kids are 5 years old by the end.

T1 parents are not playing the lottery *because* of this. I was a T1 parent and I was 1000% fine with my kid learning letters and numbers, and I thought our T1 preschool was terrific in part because they taught some of the kids to read. I was playing the lottery for a better middle school.

No one I know that has played the lottery has done so for ECE, we have people coming in for ECE and K, it's entirely for MS and HS.

Two of six hours is just lunch/recess/nap and another hour or so is specials usually. So that assumes the spend 2/3 of the remaining time sitting at tables doing worksheets and if teachers can get four year olds to sit still for two straight hours I mean bless them I guess.

Absolutely you can. It’s never 2-3 hours straight. It’s broken into chunks.

Please provide a schedule that includes the mandated amount of time for lunch and recess, plus specials and a 90-minute nap, and all transitions, and still includes 2-3 hours of seat work. Don't forget potty breaks!

Eh, I’ll humor you.


8:20 -8:45 Breakfast + writing practice (5)

8:45-9-15 Morning meeting and read aloud/whole group lesson (20 min)
9:15-10:00 Centers and small groups
(15- 25 min per kid/ 10-15 min with each teacher). (25)

10-10:30 Recess

10:35 -11:05 - whole group math lesson (30)

11:05 - 1:50- Centers and small groups again (25)

11:50-12:20 Lunch
12:20-1:50 NAP
1:50 -2:00 Heggerty (10)
2:00-2:05Snack
2:05- 2:20 Literacy Whole Group (15)
2:20-3:05 Specials


There’s your 2+ hours. Also FYI my old school didn’t give the real schedule to parents in terms of how long small groups were and whole groups.

Bathroom is in centers. Nope no transition times except recess. And PK 4 the literacy block is 30 min longer. Yes snack was really 5 minutes.

5 minutes for snack and no transition times? That is unrealistic. Come on. And personally I would not count read-aloud, it's obviously early literacy but it's not the kind of thing people are complaining about. Nor do I think centers and small groups amount to 25 minutes of real academics rather than play.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids both did PK3 and PK4 at a Title 1 DCPS, not one on your list, within the past three years.

Their experience was pretty similar to the L-T poster above.

They have a theme each quarter. Themes have included: Insects, Trees, Tubes and Tunnels, Signs, Buildings, etc. The kids get really into the theme.

Rough schedule of the day (the order has changed a bit class to class and year to year):

Breakfast
Morning Meeting - they talk about weather, days of the week, who has a birthday coming, etc. There's always a "question of the day" that the kids answer through some hands-on-voting system (has differed class to class), like "which food do you like better, pizza or French fries" or similar.
Recess - they get two 30 min recesses outside each day, one in the morning, one after nap.
Centers - This is pretty much true play. They pick where they play - the library to look at books, "Dramatic Play" which is like dress up and the play kitchen, blocks, water table, sand table, art table, there's at least one center around the theme. This is a full hour.
Specials - This is basically the same as I remember from elementary school. Spanish, Art, Music, Library, Yoga, PE, etc rotating throughout the week.
"Twiggle Time" - this is their social-emotional learning time when they talk about feelings and stuff. The "mascot" is a turtle named Twiggle.
Lunch
Nap (90 mins for PK3, 60 mins for PK4)
ELA - They have a reading/writing block. I think it's about 30 mins a day, and they mostly seem to read a book, talk about the book, draw a picture based on a question about the book, and write their names. They also learn letters and their sounds.
2nd Recess
Closing circle

I think in PK4 they add a math time. It also has a funny name but I forget what.

My kids were both "ahead" and at the end of PK4, both could count to 100 and recognize all the numbers, knew the alphabet and all the sounds the letters made (including a handful of combos like Ch and Th), and could write all the letters (big and little) and numbers and write their full names (first, middle, and last).

My oldest could also do some basic addition (numbers under 10) and my youngest could read a little (but I think she mostly figured that out just from the sounds, I don't think they taught that).

And they had more strategies about calming their bodies and dealing with hard emotions than 99% of current adults, myself included, haha.

Overall, as a layman, it seemed very play-based to me, and a pretty reasonable amount of academics. I will say, at least for my kids (who were at home with a nanny before PK3) PK3 was EXHAUSTING. Partly because they struggled to nap in a group environment, and I think partially because it's just a lot for pretty little kids. Interestingly, my friends with daycare kids, who I would have guessed would have found the switch more smooth, also really struggled at least the first month or two. It's a BIG transition (way bigger than the switch to K, for example).

It’s a non title 1 right? What I don’t see in the schedule is Building Blocks (math), which is apparently mandatory for all pre-k teachers to use but maybe not.

They are missing whole group and small group instruction -which again is supposedly mandatory.

PP here. This is a title 1 school.

Building Blocks! That’s the funny name! Yes, they do that but I thought it started in PK4. I could be wrong about that. There is both whole group and small group during the ELA and Building Blocks, and I believe sometimes they will also have one of the “centers” be a small group instruction in reading and/or math.

This sounds like way too much academics. I don’t agree with all these mandates going down to ECE teachers about it.

My kid did not have any academics and did not know almost all of the stuff PP said above (counting to 100, addition, etc,.). He knew the alphabet and still could not read in K.

ECE was so much fun and inquisitive and they did cool things like build an aquarium, set up a broadcast station, lots of great field trips, etc..

Just finished elementary and top student.

My kid started reading in PK4. By K he had abundant, access to stories, culture, information, ideas because he was already a strong independent reader.

Becoming a "top student" was never the point of teaching him to read.

Way to totally miss the point which is by 3rd grade the kids who were not reading yet have caught up to your kid and there is no difference.

Spending too much time pushing reading early at the expense of play is of no benefit and you lose learning other more important skills discussed above.

If you look at studies, the kids in head start might be more ahead academically but all gains are lost later.

Okay, no. Not all gains are lost later. Some gains are less visible but then re-emerge when the kids are older. And academics are only one part of the purpose of Head Start. There's a lot of variety in Head Start research outcomes and PP is very wrong to make such broad, conclusory statements.

https://www.chalkbeat.org/2019/8/8/21108602/a-new-study-questions-whether-head-start-still-produces-long-run-gains-seen-in-past-research/

The 2019 study doesn’t disprove the value of play-based learning - it demonstrates the consequences of abandoning it. Head Start has been declining.

Head Start worked when it focused on comprehensive care, health, nutrition, family support, and developmentally appropriate activities. It stopped working when programs shifted toward academic instruction and “school readiness” benchmarks.

Gray suggests Head Start would work better if we removed the ‘schoolishness’ and reverted to greater focus on care - providing healthy meals, medical attention, a safe place to spend the day, and lots of opportunity to PLAY and explore with other kids.

That's not what you said before. You said "all gains are lost later". That claim is simply not supported by the research.

DCPS preschool is not really Head Start, btw. It's Head Start funded, and it's Head Start-y enough to qualify for funding in most years, except when some weird wrinkle came up recently. But the students who attend DCPS preschool, as a group, are not demographically the same as the kids in these Head Start studies. There are many low-income kids, but also a lot of higher-income kids, so the studies aren't directly applicable.

I'm sorry that you can't stand the idea of a little bit of direct literacy instruction. It must be hard to go through life so rigidly, thinking something will be harmful to your child when really it's not that big a deal. You'll be a lot happier in the public school system if you embrace the idea that different students have different needs, and different families have different preferences.

I’m sorry you have no clue what you’re talking about. A little? I’m glad 45 minutes is a little to you. That’s where we are all headed. But I guess you won’t have a kid in PK by then so you won’t care.

I’m so glad you’re not a teacher and just a parent. Enjoy your children and have a nice evening. I’m not interested in communicating with you. I also wasn’t the one who talked about that particular research. I just came to say you weren’t proving anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids both did PK3 and PK4 at a Title 1 DCPS, not one on your list, within the past three years.

Their experience was pretty similar to the L-T poster above.

They have a theme each quarter. Themes have included: Insects, Trees, Tubes and Tunnels, Signs, Buildings, etc. The kids get really into the theme.

Rough schedule of the day (the order has changed a bit class to class and year to year):

Breakfast
Morning Meeting - they talk about weather, days of the week, who has a birthday coming, etc. There's always a "question of the day" that the kids answer through some hands-on-voting system (has differed class to class), like "which food do you like better, pizza or French fries" or similar.
Recess - they get two 30 min recesses outside each day, one in the morning, one after nap.
Centers - This is pretty much true play. They pick where they play - the library to look at books, "Dramatic Play" which is like dress up and the play kitchen, blocks, water table, sand table, art table, there's at least one center around the theme. This is a full hour.
Specials - This is basically the same as I remember from elementary school. Spanish, Art, Music, Library, Yoga, PE, etc rotating throughout the week.
"Twiggle Time" - this is their social-emotional learning time when they talk about feelings and stuff. The "mascot" is a turtle named Twiggle.
Lunch
Nap (90 mins for PK3, 60 mins for PK4)
ELA - They have a reading/writing block. I think it's about 30 mins a day, and they mostly seem to read a book, talk about the book, draw a picture based on a question about the book, and write their names. They also learn letters and their sounds.
2nd Recess
Closing circle

I think in PK4 they add a math time. It also has a funny name but I forget what.

My kids were both "ahead" and at the end of PK4, both could count to 100 and recognize all the numbers, knew the alphabet and all the sounds the letters made (including a handful of combos like Ch and Th), and could write all the letters (big and little) and numbers and write their full names (first, middle, and last).

My oldest could also do some basic addition (numbers under 10) and my youngest could read a little (but I think she mostly figured that out just from the sounds, I don't think they taught that).

And they had more strategies about calming their bodies and dealing with hard emotions than 99% of current adults, myself included, haha.

Overall, as a layman, it seemed very play-based to me, and a pretty reasonable amount of academics. I will say, at least for my kids (who were at home with a nanny before PK3) PK3 was EXHAUSTING. Partly because they struggled to nap in a group environment, and I think partially because it's just a lot for pretty little kids. Interestingly, my friends with daycare kids, who I would have guessed would have found the switch more smooth, also really struggled at least the first month or two. It's a BIG transition (way bigger than the switch to K, for example).

It’s a non title 1 right? What I don’t see in the schedule is Building Blocks (math), which is apparently mandatory for all pre-k teachers to use but maybe not.

They are missing whole group and small group instruction -which again is supposedly mandatory.

PP here. This is a title 1 school.

Building Blocks! That’s the funny name! Yes, they do that but I thought it started in PK4. I could be wrong about that. There is both whole group and small group during the ELA and Building Blocks, and I believe sometimes they will also have one of the “centers” be a small group instruction in reading and/or math.

This sounds like way too much academics. I don’t agree with all these mandates going down to ECE teachers about it.

My kid did not have any academics and did not know almost all of the stuff PP said above (counting to 100, addition, etc,.). He knew the alphabet and still could not read in K.

ECE was so much fun and inquisitive and they did cool things like build an aquarium, set up a broadcast station, lots of great field trips, etc..

Just finished elementary and top student.

My kid started reading in PK4. By K he had abundant, access to stories, culture, information, ideas because he was already a strong independent reader.

Becoming a "top student" was never the point of teaching him to read.

Way to totally miss the point which is by 3rd grade the kids who were not reading yet have caught up to your kid and there is no difference.

Spending too much time pushing reading early at the expense of play is of no benefit and you lose learning other more important skills discussed above.

If you look at studies, the kids in head start might be more ahead academically but all gains are lost later.

Okay, no. Not all gains are lost later. Some gains are less visible but then re-emerge when the kids are older. And academics are only one part of the purpose of Head Start. There's a lot of variety in Head Start research outcomes and PP is very wrong to make such broad, conclusory statements.

https://www.chalkbeat.org/2019/8/8/21108602/a-new-study-questions-whether-head-start-still-produces-long-run-gains-seen-in-past-research/

The 2019 study doesn’t disprove the value of play-based learning - it demonstrates the consequences of abandoning it. Head Start has been declining.

Head Start worked when it focused on comprehensive care, health, nutrition, family support, and developmentally appropriate activities. It stopped working when programs shifted toward academic instruction and “school readiness” benchmarks.

Gray suggests Head Start would work better if we removed the ‘schoolishness’ and reverted to greater focus on care - providing healthy meals, medical attention, a safe place to spend the day, and lots of opportunity to PLAY and explore with other kids.

That's not what you said before. You said "all gains are lost later". That claim is simply not supported by the research.

DCPS preschool is not really Head Start, btw. It's Head Start funded, and it's Head Start-y enough to qualify for funding in most years, except when some weird wrinkle came up recently. But the students who attend DCPS preschool, as a group, are not demographically the same as the kids in these Head Start studies. There are many low-income kids, but also a lot of higher-income kids, so the studies aren't directly applicable.

I'm sorry that you can't stand the idea of a little bit of direct literacy instruction. It must be hard to go through life so rigidly, thinking something will be harmful to your child when really it's not that big a deal. You'll be a lot happier in the public school system if you embrace the idea that different students have different needs, and different families have different preferences.

I’m sorry you have no clue what you’re talking about. A little? I’m glad 45 minutes is a little to you. That’s where we are all headed. But I guess you won’t have a kid in PK by then so you won’t care.

I’m so glad you’re not a teacher and just a parent. Enjoy your children and have a nice evening. I’m not interested in communicating with you. I also wasn’t the one who talked about that particular research. I just came to say you weren’t proving anything.

I haven't had kids in PK for years. I've had one at a T1 and one at a HRCS. They both got plenty of direct math and literacy instruction, and they both enjoyed it and benefited from it. I truly do not believe it is harmful. And for children who aren't ready, I still don't think it is harmful for them to be exposed to it in a group setting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not 10 minutes of academics. It is a couple of blocks so 1-2 hours?

Why are the adults running the show not looking at the research or understanding what is developmentally appropriate? Same with so much screen use so early in DCPS?

The big picture is that I don’t trust DCPS to know what is best for my kid. They obviously are not following best practices. I mean it doesn’t get any easier than ECE. If they don’t have best practices for this, there is little confidence IMO that they will for higher stakes in upper grades.

And the majority of parents on here at T1 schools who are actually making excuses and supporting this are not telling you is that they are playing the lottery every year for better schools. Things get worst past ECE.

Oh FFS. I very much doubt it's 1-2 hours. Maaaaaybe 1 hour, total, over a day in PK4 when-- remember-- most of the kids are 5 years old by the end.

T1 parents are not playing the lottery *because* of this. I was a T1 parent and I was 1000% fine with my kid learning letters and numbers, and I thought our T1 preschool was terrific in part because they taught some of the kids to read. I was playing the lottery for a better middle school.

No one I know that has played the lottery has done so for ECE, we have people coming in for ECE and K, it's entirely for MS and HS.

Two of six hours is just lunch/recess/nap and another hour or so is specials usually. So that assumes the spend 2/3 of the remaining time sitting at tables doing worksheets and if teachers can get four year olds to sit still for two straight hours I mean bless them I guess.

Absolutely you can. It’s never 2-3 hours straight. It’s broken into chunks.

Please provide a schedule that includes the mandated amount of time for lunch and recess, plus specials and a 90-minute nap, and all transitions, and still includes 2-3 hours of seat work. Don't forget potty breaks!

Eh, I’ll humor you.


8:20 -8:45 Breakfast + writing practice (5)

8:45-9-15 Morning meeting and read aloud/whole group lesson (20 min)
9:15-10:00 Centers and small groups
(15- 25 min per kid/ 10-15 min with each teacher). (25)

10-10:30 Recess

10:35 -11:05 - whole group math lesson (30)

11:05 - 1:50- Centers and small groups again (25)

11:50-12:20 Lunch
12:20-1:50 NAP
1:50 -2:00 Heggerty (10)
2:00-2:05Snack
2:05- 2:20 Literacy Whole Group (15)
2:20-3:05 Specials


There’s your 2+ hours. Also FYI my old school didn’t give the real schedule to parents in terms of how long small groups were and whole groups.

Bathroom is in centers. Nope no transition times except recess. And PK 4 the literacy block is 30 min longer. Yes snack was really 5 minutes.

5 minutes for snack and no transition times? That is unrealistic. Come on. And personally I would not count read-aloud, it's obviously early literacy but it's not the kind of thing people are complaining about. Nor do I think centers and small groups amount to 25 minutes of real academics rather than play.

That school was unrealistic! But small group is not play. Wish I could out the school but they might know who I am.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids both did PK3 and PK4 at a Title 1 DCPS, not one on your list, within the past three years.

Their experience was pretty similar to the L-T poster above.

They have a theme each quarter. Themes have included: Insects, Trees, Tubes and Tunnels, Signs, Buildings, etc. The kids get really into the theme.

Rough schedule of the day (the order has changed a bit class to class and year to year):

Breakfast
Morning Meeting - they talk about weather, days of the week, who has a birthday coming, etc. There's always a "question of the day" that the kids answer through some hands-on-voting system (has differed class to class), like "which food do you like better, pizza or French fries" or similar.
Recess - they get two 30 min recesses outside each day, one in the morning, one after nap.
Centers - This is pretty much true play. They pick where they play - the library to look at books, "Dramatic Play" which is like dress up and the play kitchen, blocks, water table, sand table, art table, there's at least one center around the theme. This is a full hour.
Specials - This is basically the same as I remember from elementary school. Spanish, Art, Music, Library, Yoga, PE, etc rotating throughout the week.
"Twiggle Time" - this is their social-emotional learning time when they talk about feelings and stuff. The "mascot" is a turtle named Twiggle.
Lunch
Nap (90 mins for PK3, 60 mins for PK4)
ELA - They have a reading/writing block. I think it's about 30 mins a day, and they mostly seem to read a book, talk about the book, draw a picture based on a question about the book, and write their names. They also learn letters and their sounds.
2nd Recess
Closing circle

I think in PK4 they add a math time. It also has a funny name but I forget what.

My kids were both "ahead" and at the end of PK4, both could count to 100 and recognize all the numbers, knew the alphabet and all the sounds the letters made (including a handful of combos like Ch and Th), and could write all the letters (big and little) and numbers and write their full names (first, middle, and last).

My oldest could also do some basic addition (numbers under 10) and my youngest could read a little (but I think she mostly figured that out just from the sounds, I don't think they taught that).

And they had more strategies about calming their bodies and dealing with hard emotions than 99% of current adults, myself included, haha.

Overall, as a layman, it seemed very play-based to me, and a pretty reasonable amount of academics. I will say, at least for my kids (who were at home with a nanny before PK3) PK3 was EXHAUSTING. Partly because they struggled to nap in a group environment, and I think partially because it's just a lot for pretty little kids. Interestingly, my friends with daycare kids, who I would have guessed would have found the switch more smooth, also really struggled at least the first month or two. It's a BIG transition (way bigger than the switch to K, for example).

It’s a non title 1 right? What I don’t see in the schedule is Building Blocks (math), which is apparently mandatory for all pre-k teachers to use but maybe not.

They are missing whole group and small group instruction -which again is supposedly mandatory.

PP here. This is a title 1 school.

Building Blocks! That’s the funny name! Yes, they do that but I thought it started in PK4. I could be wrong about that. There is both whole group and small group during the ELA and Building Blocks, and I believe sometimes they will also have one of the “centers” be a small group instruction in reading and/or math.

This sounds like way too much academics. I don’t agree with all these mandates going down to ECE teachers about it.

My kid did not have any academics and did not know almost all of the stuff PP said above (counting to 100, addition, etc,.). He knew the alphabet and still could not read in K.

ECE was so much fun and inquisitive and they did cool things like build an aquarium, set up a broadcast station, lots of great field trips, etc..

Just finished elementary and top student.

My kid started reading in PK4. By K he had abundant, access to stories, culture, information, ideas because he was already a strong independent reader.

Becoming a "top student" was never the point of teaching him to read.

Way to totally miss the point which is by 3rd grade the kids who were not reading yet have caught up to your kid and there is no difference.

Spending too much time pushing reading early at the expense of play is of no benefit and you lose learning other more important skills discussed above.

If you look at studies, the kids in head start might be more ahead academically but all gains are lost later.

Okay, no. Not all gains are lost later. Some gains are less visible but then re-emerge when the kids are older. And academics are only one part of the purpose of Head Start. There's a lot of variety in Head Start research outcomes and PP is very wrong to make such broad, conclusory statements.

https://www.chalkbeat.org/2019/8/8/21108602/a-new-study-questions-whether-head-start-still-produces-long-run-gains-seen-in-past-research/

The 2019 study doesn’t disprove the value of play-based learning - it demonstrates the consequences of abandoning it. Head Start has been declining.

Head Start worked when it focused on comprehensive care, health, nutrition, family support, and developmentally appropriate activities. It stopped working when programs shifted toward academic instruction and “school readiness” benchmarks.

Gray suggests Head Start would work better if we removed the ‘schoolishness’ and reverted to greater focus on care - providing healthy meals, medical attention, a safe place to spend the day, and lots of opportunity to PLAY and explore with other kids.

That's not what you said before. You said "all gains are lost later". That claim is simply not supported by the research.

DCPS preschool is not really Head Start, btw. It's Head Start funded, and it's Head Start-y enough to qualify for funding in most years, except when some weird wrinkle came up recently. But the students who attend DCPS preschool, as a group, are not demographically the same as the kids in these Head Start studies. There are many low-income kids, but also a lot of higher-income kids, so the studies aren't directly applicable.

I'm sorry that you can't stand the idea of a little bit of direct literacy instruction. It must be hard to go through life so rigidly, thinking something will be harmful to your child when really it's not that big a deal. You'll be a lot happier in the public school system if you embrace the idea that different students have different needs, and different families have different preferences.

I’m sorry you have no clue what you’re talking about. A little? I’m glad 45 minutes is a little to you. That’s where we are all headed. But I guess you won’t have a kid in PK by then so you won’t care.

I’m so glad you’re not a teacher and just a parent. Enjoy your children and have a nice evening. I’m not interested in communicating with you. I also wasn’t the one who talked about that particular research. I just came to say you weren’t proving anything.

I haven't had kids in PK for years. I've had one at a T1 and one at a HRCS. They both got plenty of direct math and literacy instruction, and they both enjoyed it and benefited from it. I truly do not believe it is harmful. And for children who aren't ready, I still don't think it is harmful for them to be exposed to it in a group setting.

Your belief is greater evidence than decades of research and teacher’s lived experiences? Ok, I have nothing more to say. Have a nice evening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not 10 minutes of academics. It is a couple of blocks so 1-2 hours?

Why are the adults running the show not looking at the research or understanding what is developmentally appropriate? Same with so much screen use so early in DCPS?

The big picture is that I don’t trust DCPS to know what is best for my kid. They obviously are not following best practices. I mean it doesn’t get any easier than ECE. If they don’t have best practices for this, there is little confidence IMO that they will for higher stakes in upper grades.

And the majority of parents on here at T1 schools who are actually making excuses and supporting this are not telling you is that they are playing the lottery every year for better schools. Things get worst past ECE.

Oh FFS. I very much doubt it's 1-2 hours. Maaaaaybe 1 hour, total, over a day in PK4 when-- remember-- most of the kids are 5 years old by the end.

T1 parents are not playing the lottery *because* of this. I was a T1 parent and I was 1000% fine with my kid learning letters and numbers, and I thought our T1 preschool was terrific in part because they taught some of the kids to read. I was playing the lottery for a better middle school.

No one I know that has played the lottery has done so for ECE, we have people coming in for ECE and K, it's entirely for MS and HS.

Two of six hours is just lunch/recess/nap and another hour or so is specials usually. So that assumes the spend 2/3 of the remaining time sitting at tables doing worksheets and if teachers can get four year olds to sit still for two straight hours I mean bless them I guess.

Absolutely you can. It’s never 2-3 hours straight. It’s broken into chunks.

Please provide a schedule that includes the mandated amount of time for lunch and recess, plus specials and a 90-minute nap, and all transitions, and still includes 2-3 hours of seat work. Don't forget potty breaks!

Eh, I’ll humor you.


8:20 -8:45 Breakfast + writing practice (5)

8:45-9-15 Morning meeting and read aloud/whole group lesson (20 min)
9:15-10:00 Centers and small groups
(15- 25 min per kid/ 10-15 min with each teacher). (25)

10-10:30 Recess

10:35 -11:05 - whole group math lesson (30)

11:05 - 1:50- Centers and small groups again (25)

11:50-12:20 Lunch
12:20-1:50 NAP
1:50 -2:00 Heggerty (10)
2:00-2:05Snack
2:05- 2:20 Literacy Whole Group (15)
2:20-3:05 Specials


There’s your 2+ hours. Also FYI my old school didn’t give the real schedule to parents in terms of how long small groups were and whole groups.

Bathroom is in centers. Nope no transition times except recess. And PK 4 the literacy block is 30 min longer. Yes snack was really 5 minutes.

5 minutes for snack and no transition times? That is unrealistic. Come on. And personally I would not count read-aloud, it's obviously early literacy but it's not the kind of thing people are complaining about. Nor do I think centers and small groups amount to 25 minutes of real academics rather than play.

That school was unrealistic! But small group is not play. Wish I could out the school but they might know who I am.

Also, if that's a full day that goes according to schedule, remember all the days that don't. All the fire drills and lockdowns. Field trips and assemblies. Resolving disputes. P**ping their pants. Having a substitute teacher who can barely get by. Snow days. All kinds of days when they have much less if not zero. So on average, it's not really that much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids both did PK3 and PK4 at a Title 1 DCPS, not one on your list, within the past three years.

Their experience was pretty similar to the L-T poster above.

They have a theme each quarter. Themes have included: Insects, Trees, Tubes and Tunnels, Signs, Buildings, etc. The kids get really into the theme.

Rough schedule of the day (the order has changed a bit class to class and year to year):

Breakfast
Morning Meeting - they talk about weather, days of the week, who has a birthday coming, etc. There's always a "question of the day" that the kids answer through some hands-on-voting system (has differed class to class), like "which food do you like better, pizza or French fries" or similar.
Recess - they get two 30 min recesses outside each day, one in the morning, one after nap.
Centers - This is pretty much true play. They pick where they play - the library to look at books, "Dramatic Play" which is like dress up and the play kitchen, blocks, water table, sand table, art table, there's at least one center around the theme. This is a full hour.
Specials - This is basically the same as I remember from elementary school. Spanish, Art, Music, Library, Yoga, PE, etc rotating throughout the week.
"Twiggle Time" - this is their social-emotional learning time when they talk about feelings and stuff. The "mascot" is a turtle named Twiggle.
Lunch
Nap (90 mins for PK3, 60 mins for PK4)
ELA - They have a reading/writing block. I think it's about 30 mins a day, and they mostly seem to read a book, talk about the book, draw a picture based on a question about the book, and write their names. They also learn letters and their sounds.
2nd Recess
Closing circle

I think in PK4 they add a math time. It also has a funny name but I forget what.

My kids were both "ahead" and at the end of PK4, both could count to 100 and recognize all the numbers, knew the alphabet and all the sounds the letters made (including a handful of combos like Ch and Th), and could write all the letters (big and little) and numbers and write their full names (first, middle, and last).

My oldest could also do some basic addition (numbers under 10) and my youngest could read a little (but I think she mostly figured that out just from the sounds, I don't think they taught that).

And they had more strategies about calming their bodies and dealing with hard emotions than 99% of current adults, myself included, haha.

Overall, as a layman, it seemed very play-based to me, and a pretty reasonable amount of academics. I will say, at least for my kids (who were at home with a nanny before PK3) PK3 was EXHAUSTING. Partly because they struggled to nap in a group environment, and I think partially because it's just a lot for pretty little kids. Interestingly, my friends with daycare kids, who I would have guessed would have found the switch more smooth, also really struggled at least the first month or two. It's a BIG transition (way bigger than the switch to K, for example).

It’s a non title 1 right? What I don’t see in the schedule is Building Blocks (math), which is apparently mandatory for all pre-k teachers to use but maybe not.

They are missing whole group and small group instruction -which again is supposedly mandatory.

PP here. This is a title 1 school.

Building Blocks! That’s the funny name! Yes, they do that but I thought it started in PK4. I could be wrong about that. There is both whole group and small group during the ELA and Building Blocks, and I believe sometimes they will also have one of the “centers” be a small group instruction in reading and/or math.

This sounds like way too much academics. I don’t agree with all these mandates going down to ECE teachers about it.

My kid did not have any academics and did not know almost all of the stuff PP said above (counting to 100, addition, etc,.). He knew the alphabet and still could not read in K.

ECE was so much fun and inquisitive and they did cool things like build an aquarium, set up a broadcast station, lots of great field trips, etc..

Just finished elementary and top student.

My kid started reading in PK4. By K he had abundant, access to stories, culture, information, ideas because he was already a strong independent reader.

Becoming a "top student" was never the point of teaching him to read.

Way to totally miss the point which is by 3rd grade the kids who were not reading yet have caught up to your kid and there is no difference.

Spending too much time pushing reading early at the expense of play is of no benefit and you lose learning other more important skills discussed above.

If you look at studies, the kids in head start might be more ahead academically but all gains are lost later.

Okay, no. Not all gains are lost later. Some gains are less visible but then re-emerge when the kids are older. And academics are only one part of the purpose of Head Start. There's a lot of variety in Head Start research outcomes and PP is very wrong to make such broad, conclusory statements.

https://www.chalkbeat.org/2019/8/8/21108602/a-new-study-questions-whether-head-start-still-produces-long-run-gains-seen-in-past-research/

The 2019 study doesn’t disprove the value of play-based learning - it demonstrates the consequences of abandoning it. Head Start has been declining.

Head Start worked when it focused on comprehensive care, health, nutrition, family support, and developmentally appropriate activities. It stopped working when programs shifted toward academic instruction and “school readiness” benchmarks.

Gray suggests Head Start would work better if we removed the ‘schoolishness’ and reverted to greater focus on care - providing healthy meals, medical attention, a safe place to spend the day, and lots of opportunity to PLAY and explore with other kids.

That's not what you said before. You said "all gains are lost later". That claim is simply not supported by the research.

DCPS preschool is not really Head Start, btw. It's Head Start funded, and it's Head Start-y enough to qualify for funding in most years, except when some weird wrinkle came up recently. But the students who attend DCPS preschool, as a group, are not demographically the same as the kids in these Head Start studies. There are many low-income kids, but also a lot of higher-income kids, so the studies aren't directly applicable.

I'm sorry that you can't stand the idea of a little bit of direct literacy instruction. It must be hard to go through life so rigidly, thinking something will be harmful to your child when really it's not that big a deal. You'll be a lot happier in the public school system if you embrace the idea that different students have different needs, and different families have different preferences.

I’m sorry you have no clue what you’re talking about. A little? I’m glad 45 minutes is a little to you. That’s where we are all headed. But I guess you won’t have a kid in PK by then so you won’t care.

I’m so glad you’re not a teacher and just a parent. Enjoy your children and have a nice evening. I’m not interested in communicating with you. I also wasn’t the one who talked about that particular research. I just came to say you weren’t proving anything.

I haven't had kids in PK for years. I've had one at a T1 and one at a HRCS. They both got plenty of direct math and literacy instruction, and they both enjoyed it and benefited from it. I truly do not believe it is harmful. And for children who aren't ready, I still don't think it is harmful for them to be exposed to it in a group setting.

Your belief is greater evidence than decades of research and teacher’s lived experiences? Ok, I have nothing more to say. Have a nice evening.

Oooh, lived experience! What about my lived experience?

Please do show us the research that a little bit of academics in a mostly play-based program is so horribly harmful. Is your kid going to be crying to his therapist in his 40s "Doctor, they made me say 'buh-buh-B'!"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:My kids both did PK3 and PK4 at a Title 1 DCPS, not one on your list, within the past three years.

Their experience was pretty similar to the L-T poster above.

They have a theme each quarter. Themes have included: Insects, Trees, Tubes and Tunnels, Signs, Buildings, etc. The kids get really into the theme.

Rough schedule of the day (the order has changed a bit class to class and year to year):

Breakfast
Morning Meeting - they talk about weather, days of the week, who has a birthday coming, etc. There's always a "question of the day" that the kids answer through some hands-on-voting system (has differed class to class), like "which food do you like better, pizza or French fries" or similar.
Recess - they get two 30 min recesses outside each day, one in the morning, one after nap.
Centers - This is pretty much true play. They pick where they play - the library to look at books, "Dramatic Play" which is like dress up and the play kitchen, blocks, water table, sand table, art table, there's at least one center around the theme. This is a full hour.
Specials - This is basically the same as I remember from elementary school. Spanish, Art, Music, Library, Yoga, PE, etc rotating throughout the week.
"Twiggle Time" - this is their social-emotional learning time when they talk about feelings and stuff. The "mascot" is a turtle named Twiggle.
Lunch
Nap (90 mins for PK3, 60 mins for PK4)
ELA - They have a reading/writing block. I think it's about 30 mins a day, and they mostly seem to read a book, talk about the book, draw a picture based on a question about the book, and write their names. They also learn letters and their sounds.
2nd Recess
Closing circle

I think in PK4 they add a math time. It also has a funny name but I forget what.

My kids were both "ahead" and at the end of PK4, both could count to 100 and recognize all the numbers, knew the alphabet and all the sounds the letters made (including a handful of combos like Ch and Th), and could write all the letters (big and little) and numbers and write their full names (first, middle, and last).

My oldest could also do some basic addition (numbers under 10) and my youngest could read a little (but I think she mostly figured that out just from the sounds, I don't think they taught that).

And they had more strategies about calming their bodies and dealing with hard emotions than 99% of current adults, myself included, haha.

Overall, as a layman, it seemed very play-based to me, and a pretty reasonable amount of academics. I will say, at least for my kids (who were at home with a nanny before PK3) PK3 was EXHAUSTING. Partly because they struggled to nap in a group environment, and I think partially because it's just a lot for pretty little kids. Interestingly, my friends with daycare kids, who I would have guessed would have found the switch more smooth, also really struggled at least the first month or two. It's a BIG transition (way bigger than the switch to K, for example).

It’s a non title 1 right? What I don’t see in the schedule is Building Blocks (math), which is apparently mandatory for all pre-k teachers to use but maybe not.

They are missing whole group and small group instruction -which again is supposedly mandatory.

PP here. This is a title 1 school.

Building Blocks! That’s the funny name! Yes, they do that but I thought it started in PK4. I could be wrong about that. There is both whole group and small group during the ELA and Building Blocks, and I believe sometimes they will also have one of the “centers” be a small group instruction in reading and/or math.

This sounds like way too much academics. I don’t agree with all these mandates going down to ECE teachers about it.

My kid did not have any academics and did not know almost all of the stuff PP said above (counting to 100, addition, etc,.). He knew the alphabet and still could not read in K.

ECE was so much fun and inquisitive and they did cool things like build an aquarium, set up a broadcast station, lots of great field trips, etc..

Just finished elementary and top student.

My kid started reading in PK4. By K he had abundant, access to stories, culture, information, ideas because he was already a strong independent reader.

Becoming a "top student" was never the point of teaching him to read.

Way to totally miss the point which is by 3rd grade the kids who were not reading yet have caught up to your kid and there is no difference.

Spending too much time pushing reading early at the expense of play is of no benefit and you lose learning other more important skills discussed above.

If you look at studies, the kids in head start might be more ahead academically but all gains are lost later.

This is a weird take.

I also had a very early reader who is now a teenager and he just .. knows a LOT due to all the books he's read. Reading accumulates, and early readers learn more. This shouldn't be disparaged.

Yeah I understand the research but there seems to be a lot of just anti-academics not just pro-play.

This. There's a lot of Head Start research out there and it takes some expertise to interpret. But it's bizarre how people get so upset about 10 minutes of Heggerty or whatever. A is for apple and it won't kill ya to sing the alphabet song sometimes.

It's okay if some kids want to learn to read. Some kids mostly teach themselves to read and write if they're ahead of the class, and if they don't get instruction they can develop bad habits like not forming letters in the proper way, or pronouncing things phonetically that aren't phonetic in spoken English. They're better off with a little instruction to go with their enthusiasm.

I think you’re not getting the nuance here. Play is learning, it is academics -just not in the traditional sense. Songs/real music is imperative for learning.

I knew I should not have commented because there would be comments over generalizing or not getting the point. Especially because parents don’t want to feel like they failed or are failing their child.

We all do the best we can -obviously teacher too.

I know you did not read all the comments but I did state if a child is interested in reading it’s not going to harm them. What IS harmful is forcing ALL children to learn to read at 3/4 years old.

Your example’s aren’t disproving what I have stated. Again, the research is clear. Play is learning!

You seem to know the schedule of every T1 school ECE class and that none of them ever sing or do crafts or play or anything other than sit and do worksheets all day.

It's also incredibly offensive to people here to say it's ok you're failing your child you're doing your best and just don't want to admit it you're failing.

I think this board has an incredibly unfair view of teachers but this constantly belittling parents isn't helping.

Where did I say you failed your kid, that’s a feeling you have! I said I didn’t want to say much because parents often feel that way.

This is why often teachers do not talk to parents because the first thing you do is get in your head and defensive about what you’re doing.

This isn’t about YOU! It’s about how DCPS is slowly ruining Pre-K!

This you?

"Especially because parents don’t want to feel like they failed or are failing their child."

You're implying parents are failing and just don't want to think about it and you don't want to tell them that but you think it.

I don't think anyone thinks PK instruction is perfect but it's also a system that must address kids who are without homes all the way through kids living in multi million dollar homes. Everyone here is like our kid is on a safe space and does play and ask learns and you're gaslighting everyone that they're wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids both did PK3 and PK4 at a Title 1 DCPS, not one on your list, within the past three years.

Their experience was pretty similar to the L-T poster above.

They have a theme each quarter. Themes have included: Insects, Trees, Tubes and Tunnels, Signs, Buildings, etc. The kids get really into the theme.

Rough schedule of the day (the order has changed a bit class to class and year to year):

Breakfast
Morning Meeting - they talk about weather, days of the week, who has a birthday coming, etc. There's always a "question of the day" that the kids answer through some hands-on-voting system (has differed class to class), like "which food do you like better, pizza or French fries" or similar.
Recess - they get two 30 min recesses outside each day, one in the morning, one after nap.
Centers - This is pretty much true play. They pick where they play - the library to look at books, "Dramatic Play" which is like dress up and the play kitchen, blocks, water table, sand table, art table, there's at least one center around the theme. This is a full hour.
Specials - This is basically the same as I remember from elementary school. Spanish, Art, Music, Library, Yoga, PE, etc rotating throughout the week.
"Twiggle Time" - this is their social-emotional learning time when they talk about feelings and stuff. The "mascot" is a turtle named Twiggle.
Lunch
Nap (90 mins for PK3, 60 mins for PK4)
ELA - They have a reading/writing block. I think it's about 30 mins a day, and they mostly seem to read a book, talk about the book, draw a picture based on a question about the book, and write their names. They also learn letters and their sounds.
2nd Recess
Closing circle

I think in PK4 they add a math time. It also has a funny name but I forget what.

My kids were both "ahead" and at the end of PK4, both could count to 100 and recognize all the numbers, knew the alphabet and all the sounds the letters made (including a handful of combos like Ch and Th), and could write all the letters (big and little) and numbers and write their full names (first, middle, and last).

My oldest could also do some basic addition (numbers under 10) and my youngest could read a little (but I think she mostly figured that out just from the sounds, I don't think they taught that).

And they had more strategies about calming their bodies and dealing with hard emotions than 99% of current adults, myself included, haha.

Overall, as a layman, it seemed very play-based to me, and a pretty reasonable amount of academics. I will say, at least for my kids (who were at home with a nanny before PK3) PK3 was EXHAUSTING. Partly because they struggled to nap in a group environment, and I think partially because it's just a lot for pretty little kids. Interestingly, my friends with daycare kids, who I would have guessed would have found the switch more smooth, also really struggled at least the first month or two. It's a BIG transition (way bigger than the switch to K, for example).

It’s a non title 1 right? What I don’t see in the schedule is Building Blocks (math), which is apparently mandatory for all pre-k teachers to use but maybe not.

They are missing whole group and small group instruction -which again is supposedly mandatory.

PP here. This is a title 1 school.

Building Blocks! That’s the funny name! Yes, they do that but I thought it started in PK4. I could be wrong about that. There is both whole group and small group during the ELA and Building Blocks, and I believe sometimes they will also have one of the “centers” be a small group instruction in reading and/or math.

This sounds like way too much academics. I don’t agree with all these mandates going down to ECE teachers about it.

My kid did not have any academics and did not know almost all of the stuff PP said above (counting to 100, addition, etc,.). He knew the alphabet and still could not read in K.

ECE was so much fun and inquisitive and they did cool things like build an aquarium, set up a broadcast station, lots of great field trips, etc..

Just finished elementary and top student.

My kid started reading in PK4. By K he had abundant, access to stories, culture, information, ideas because he was already a strong independent reader.

Becoming a "top student" was never the point of teaching him to read.

Way to totally miss the point which is by 3rd grade the kids who were not reading yet have caught up to your kid and there is no difference.

Spending too much time pushing reading early at the expense of play is of no benefit and you lose learning other more important skills discussed above.

If you look at studies, the kids in head start might be more ahead academically but all gains are lost later.

Okay, no. Not all gains are lost later. Some gains are less visible but then re-emerge when the kids are older. And academics are only one part of the purpose of Head Start. There's a lot of variety in Head Start research outcomes and PP is very wrong to make such broad, conclusory statements.

https://www.chalkbeat.org/2019/8/8/21108602/a-new-study-questions-whether-head-start-still-produces-long-run-gains-seen-in-past-research/

The 2019 study doesn’t disprove the value of play-based learning - it demonstrates the consequences of abandoning it. Head Start has been declining.

Head Start worked when it focused on comprehensive care, health, nutrition, family support, and developmentally appropriate activities. It stopped working when programs shifted toward academic instruction and “school readiness” benchmarks.

Gray suggests Head Start would work better if we removed the ‘schoolishness’ and reverted to greater focus on care - providing healthy meals, medical attention, a safe place to spend the day, and lots of opportunity to PLAY and explore with other kids.

That's not what you said before. You said "all gains are lost later". That claim is simply not supported by the research.

DCPS preschool is not really Head Start, btw. It's Head Start funded, and it's Head Start-y enough to qualify for funding in most years, except when some weird wrinkle came up recently. But the students who attend DCPS preschool, as a group, are not demographically the same as the kids in these Head Start studies. There are many low-income kids, but also a lot of higher-income kids, so the studies aren't directly applicable.

I'm sorry that you can't stand the idea of a little bit of direct literacy instruction. It must be hard to go through life so rigidly, thinking something will be harmful to your child when really it's not that big a deal. You'll be a lot happier in the public school system if you embrace the idea that different students have different needs, and different families have different preferences.

I’m sorry you have no clue what you’re talking about. A little? I’m glad 45 minutes is a little to you. That’s where we are all headed. But I guess you won’t have a kid in PK by then so you won’t care.

I’m so glad you’re not a teacher and just a parent. Enjoy your children and have a nice evening. I’m not interested in communicating with you. I also wasn’t the one who talked about that particular research. I just came to say you weren’t proving anything.

I haven't had kids in PK for years. I've had one at a T1 and one at a HRCS. They both got plenty of direct math and literacy instruction, and they both enjoyed it and benefited from it. I truly do not believe it is harmful. And for children who aren't ready, I still don't think it is harmful for them to be exposed to it in a group setting.

Your belief is greater evidence than decades of research and teacher’s lived experiences? Ok, I have nothing more to say. Have a nice evening.

People cited evidence back at you and if parents lived experience is invalid that teachers have lived experience which can be perfectly extrapolated

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It is not 10 minutes of academics. It is a couple of blocks so 1-2 hours?

Why are the adults running the show not looking at the research or understanding what is developmentally appropriate? Same with so much screen use so early in DCPS?

The big picture is that I don’t trust DCPS to know what is best for my kid. They obviously are not following best practices. I mean it doesn’t get any easier than ECE. If they don’t have best practices for this, there is little confidence IMO that they will for higher stakes in upper grades.

And the majority of parents on here at T1 schools who are actually making excuses and supporting this are not telling you is that they are playing the lottery every year for better schools. Things get worst past ECE.

Oh FFS. I very much doubt it's 1-2 hours. Maaaaaybe 1 hour, total, over a day in PK4 when-- remember-- most of the kids are 5 years old by the end.

T1 parents are not playing the lottery *because* of this. I was a T1 parent and I was 1000% fine with my kid learning letters and numbers, and I thought our T1 preschool was terrific in part because they taught some of the kids to read. I was playing the lottery for a better middle school.

No one I know that has played the lottery has done so for ECE, we have people coming in for ECE and K, it's entirely for MS and HS.

Two of six hours is just lunch/recess/nap and another hour or so is specials usually. So that assumes the spend 2/3 of the remaining time sitting at tables doing worksheets and if teachers can get four year olds to sit still for two straight hours I mean bless them I guess.

Absolutely you can. It’s never 2-3 hours straight. It’s broken into chunks.

Please provide a schedule that includes the mandated amount of time for lunch and recess, plus specials and a 90-minute nap, and all transitions, and still includes 2-3 hours of seat work. Don't forget potty breaks!

Eh, I’ll humor you.


8:20 -8:45 Breakfast + writing practice (5)

8:45-9-15 Morning meeting and read aloud/whole group lesson (20 min)
9:15-10:00 Centers and small groups
(15- 25 min per kid/ 10-15 min with each teacher). (25)

10-10:30 Recess

10:35 -11:05 - whole group math lesson (30)

11:05 - 1:50- Centers and small groups again (25)

11:50-12:20 Lunch
12:20-1:50 NAP
1:50 -2:00 Heggerty (10)
2:00-2:05Snack
2:05- 2:20 Literacy Whole Group (15)
2:20-3:05 Specials


There’s your 2+ hours. Also FYI my old school didn’t give the real schedule to parents in terms of how long small groups were and whole groups.

Bathroom is in centers. Nope no transition times except recess. And PK 4 the literacy block is 30 min longer. Yes snack was really 5 minutes.

5 minutes for snack and no transition times? That is unrealistic. Come on. And personally I would not count read-aloud, it's obviously early literacy but it's not the kind of thing people are complaining about. Nor do I think centers and small groups amount to 25 minutes of real academics rather than play.

That school was unrealistic! But small group is not play. Wish I could out the school but they might know who I am.

I'm confused, how are you getting 25 minutes of academics out of centers and small groups? In my experience the small groups are academic, the centers much less so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not 10 minutes of academics. It is a couple of blocks so 1-2 hours?

Why are the adults running the show not looking at the research or understanding what is developmentally appropriate? Same with so much screen use so early in DCPS?

The big picture is that I don’t trust DCPS to know what is best for my kid. They obviously are not following best practices. I mean it doesn’t get any easier than ECE. If they don’t have best practices for this, there is little confidence IMO that they will for higher stakes in upper grades.

And the majority of parents on here at T1 schools who are actually making excuses and supporting this are not telling you is that they are playing the lottery every year for better schools. Things get worst past ECE.

Oh FFS. I very much doubt it's 1-2 hours. Maaaaaybe 1 hour, total, over a day in PK4 when-- remember-- most of the kids are 5 years old by the end.

T1 parents are not playing the lottery *because* of this. I was a T1 parent and I was 1000% fine with my kid learning letters and numbers, and I thought our T1 preschool was terrific in part because they taught some of the kids to read. I was playing the lottery for a better middle school.

No one I know that has played the lottery has done so for ECE, we have people coming in for ECE and K, it's entirely for MS and HS.

Two of six hours is just lunch/recess/nap and another hour or so is specials usually. So that assumes the spend 2/3 of the remaining time sitting at tables doing worksheets and if teachers can get four year olds to sit still for two straight hours I mean bless them I guess.

Absolutely you can. It’s never 2-3 hours straight. It’s broken into chunks.

Please provide a schedule that includes the mandated amount of time for lunch and recess, plus specials and a 90-minute nap, and all transitions, and still includes 2-3 hours of seat work. Don't forget potty breaks!

Eh, I’ll humor you.


8:20 -8:45 Breakfast + writing practice (5)

8:45-9-15 Morning meeting and read aloud/whole group lesson (20 min)
9:15-10:00 Centers and small groups
(15- 25 min per kid/ 10-15 min with each teacher). (25)

10-10:30 Recess

10:35 -11:05 - whole group math lesson (30)

11:05 - 1:50- Centers and small groups again (25)

11:50-12:20 Lunch
12:20-1:50 NAP
1:50 -2:00 Heggerty (10)
2:00-2:05Snack
2:05- 2:20 Literacy Whole Group (15)
2:20-3:05 Specials


There’s your 2+ hours. Also FYI my old school didn’t give the real schedule to parents in terms of how long small groups were and whole groups.

Bathroom is in centers. Nope no transition times except recess. And PK 4 the literacy block is 30 min longer. Yes snack was really 5 minutes.

My kids definitely do not do writing practice from not the classroom at 8:20. Are teachers not supposed to read aloud? That's too academic? I'm going to be honest none of this sounds terribly academically rigorous.