Are DCPS PK3-4 programs more play-based or academic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids both did PK3 and PK4 at a Title 1 DCPS, not one on your list, within the past three years.

Their experience was pretty similar to the L-T poster above.

They have a theme each quarter. Themes have included: Insects, Trees, Tubes and Tunnels, Signs, Buildings, etc. The kids get really into the theme.

Rough schedule of the day (the order has changed a bit class to class and year to year):

Breakfast
Morning Meeting - they talk about weather, days of the week, who has a birthday coming, etc. There's always a "question of the day" that the kids answer through some hands-on-voting system (has differed class to class), like "which food do you like better, pizza or French fries" or similar.
Recess - they get two 30 min recesses outside each day, one in the morning, one after nap.
Centers - This is pretty much true play. They pick where they play - the library to look at books, "Dramatic Play" which is like dress up and the play kitchen, blocks, water table, sand table, art table, there's at least one center around the theme. This is a full hour.
Specials - This is basically the same as I remember from elementary school. Spanish, Art, Music, Library, Yoga, PE, etc rotating throughout the week.
"Twiggle Time" - this is their social-emotional learning time when they talk about feelings and stuff. The "mascot" is a turtle named Twiggle.
Lunch
Nap (90 mins for PK3, 60 mins for PK4)
ELA - They have a reading/writing block. I think it's about 30 mins a day, and they mostly seem to read a book, talk about the book, draw a picture based on a question about the book, and write their names. They also learn letters and their sounds.
2nd Recess
Closing circle

I think in PK4 they add a math time. It also has a funny name but I forget what.

My kids were both "ahead" and at the end of PK4, both could count to 100 and recognize all the numbers, knew the alphabet and all the sounds the letters made (including a handful of combos like Ch and Th), and could write all the letters (big and little) and numbers and write their full names (first, middle, and last).

My oldest could also do some basic addition (numbers under 10) and my youngest could read a little (but I think she mostly figured that out just from the sounds, I don't think they taught that).

And they had more strategies about calming their bodies and dealing with hard emotions than 99% of current adults, myself included, haha.

Overall, as a layman, it seemed very play-based to me, and a pretty reasonable amount of academics. I will say, at least for my kids (who were at home with a nanny before PK3) PK3 was EXHAUSTING. Partly because they struggled to nap in a group environment, and I think partially because it's just a lot for pretty little kids. Interestingly, my friends with daycare kids, who I would have guessed would have found the switch more smooth, also really struggled at least the first month or two. It's a BIG transition (way bigger than the switch to K, for example).

It’s a non title 1 right? What I don’t see in the schedule is Building Blocks (math), which is apparently mandatory for all pre-k teachers to use but maybe not.

They are missing whole group and small group instruction -which again is supposedly mandatory.

PP here. This is a title 1 school.

Building Blocks! That’s the funny name! Yes, they do that but I thought it started in PK4. I could be wrong about that. There is both whole group and small group during the ELA and Building Blocks, and I believe sometimes they will also have one of the “centers” be a small group instruction in reading and/or math.

This sounds like way too much academics. I don’t agree with all these mandates going down to ECE teachers about it.

My kid did not have any academics and did not know almost all of the stuff PP said above (counting to 100, addition, etc,.). He knew the alphabet and still could not read in K.

ECE was so much fun and inquisitive and they did cool things like build an aquarium, set up a broadcast station, lots of great field trips, etc..

Just finished elementary and top student.

My kid started reading in PK4. By K he had abundant, access to stories, culture, information, ideas because he was already a strong independent reader.

Becoming a "top student" was never the point of teaching him to read.

Way to totally miss the point which is by 3rd grade the kids who were not reading yet have caught up to your kid and there is no difference.

Spending too much time pushing reading early at the expense of play is of no benefit and you lose learning other more important skills discussed above.

If you look at studies, the kids in head start might be more ahead academically but all gains are lost later.

This is a weird take.

I also had a very early reader who is now a teenager and he just .. knows a LOT due to all the books he's read. Reading accumulates, and early readers learn more. This shouldn't be disparaged.

Weird take but you don’t seriously think all kids reading 2 years earlier (preK 4 vs 1st) is going to learn more than the other kid in total content by the time they are teenagers, do you???

My kid was a later reader and he knows a LOT too due to all the books he’s read from 1st on.

PP and I mean... I kind of do. I have two kids, one was a very early reader (PK3!) on his own, the other it finally clicked in 1st grade and then he started reading voraciously. Both consistently 99th percentile on all the the measures. But my early reader absolutely knows more things, and I have to believe that reading for a few extra years did contribute to that.

No, not every kid needs to learn to read early. However, it should NOT be discouraged, and early readers do end up getting smart.

Yes, I'm Asian, and I think expectations are too low and the culture is weirdly anti-academic in this country.

You should go back while you have the chance. The world order is about to change, and you don’t want to ensure your kids will always be third-rate because they went to school here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids both did PK3 and PK4 at a Title 1 DCPS, not one on your list, within the past three years.

Their experience was pretty similar to the L-T poster above.

They have a theme each quarter. Themes have included: Insects, Trees, Tubes and Tunnels, Signs, Buildings, etc. The kids get really into the theme.

Rough schedule of the day (the order has changed a bit class to class and year to year):

Breakfast
Morning Meeting - they talk about weather, days of the week, who has a birthday coming, etc. There's always a "question of the day" that the kids answer through some hands-on-voting system (has differed class to class), like "which food do you like better, pizza or French fries" or similar.
Recess - they get two 30 min recesses outside each day, one in the morning, one after nap.
Centers - This is pretty much true play. They pick where they play - the library to look at books, "Dramatic Play" which is like dress up and the play kitchen, blocks, water table, sand table, art table, there's at least one center around the theme. This is a full hour.
Specials - This is basically the same as I remember from elementary school. Spanish, Art, Music, Library, Yoga, PE, etc rotating throughout the week.
"Twiggle Time" - this is their social-emotional learning time when they talk about feelings and stuff. The "mascot" is a turtle named Twiggle.
Lunch
Nap (90 mins for PK3, 60 mins for PK4)
ELA - They have a reading/writing block. I think it's about 30 mins a day, and they mostly seem to read a book, talk about the book, draw a picture based on a question about the book, and write their names. They also learn letters and their sounds.
2nd Recess
Closing circle

I think in PK4 they add a math time. It also has a funny name but I forget what.

My kids were both "ahead" and at the end of PK4, both could count to 100 and recognize all the numbers, knew the alphabet and all the sounds the letters made (including a handful of combos like Ch and Th), and could write all the letters (big and little) and numbers and write their full names (first, middle, and last).

My oldest could also do some basic addition (numbers under 10) and my youngest could read a little (but I think she mostly figured that out just from the sounds, I don't think they taught that).

And they had more strategies about calming their bodies and dealing with hard emotions than 99% of current adults, myself included, haha.

Overall, as a layman, it seemed very play-based to me, and a pretty reasonable amount of academics. I will say, at least for my kids (who were at home with a nanny before PK3) PK3 was EXHAUSTING. Partly because they struggled to nap in a group environment, and I think partially because it's just a lot for pretty little kids. Interestingly, my friends with daycare kids, who I would have guessed would have found the switch more smooth, also really struggled at least the first month or two. It's a BIG transition (way bigger than the switch to K, for example).

It’s a non title 1 right? What I don’t see in the schedule is Building Blocks (math), which is apparently mandatory for all pre-k teachers to use but maybe not.

They are missing whole group and small group instruction -which again is supposedly mandatory.

PP here. This is a title 1 school.

Building Blocks! That’s the funny name! Yes, they do that but I thought it started in PK4. I could be wrong about that. There is both whole group and small group during the ELA and Building Blocks, and I believe sometimes they will also have one of the “centers” be a small group instruction in reading and/or math.

This sounds like way too much academics. I don’t agree with all these mandates going down to ECE teachers about it.

My kid did not have any academics and did not know almost all of the stuff PP said above (counting to 100, addition, etc,.). He knew the alphabet and still could not read in K.

ECE was so much fun and inquisitive and they did cool things like build an aquarium, set up a broadcast station, lots of great field trips, etc..

Just finished elementary and top student.

My kid started reading in PK4. By K he had abundant, access to stories, culture, information, ideas because he was already a strong independent reader.

Becoming a "top student" was never the point of teaching him to read.

Way to totally miss the point which is by 3rd grade the kids who were not reading yet have caught up to your kid and there is no difference.

Spending too much time pushing reading early at the expense of play is of no benefit and you lose learning other more important skills discussed above.

If you look at studies, the kids in head start might be more ahead academically but all gains are lost later.

This is a weird take.

I also had a very early reader who is now a teenager and he just .. knows a LOT due to all the books he's read. Reading accumulates, and early readers learn more. This shouldn't be disparaged.

Weird take but you don’t seriously think all kids reading 2 years earlier (preK 4 vs 1st) is going to learn more than the other kid in total content by the time they are teenagers, do you???

My kid was a later reader and he knows a LOT too due to all the books he’s read from 1st on.

PP and I mean... I kind of do. I have two kids, one was a very early reader (PK3!) on his own, the other it finally clicked in 1st grade and then he started reading voraciously. Both consistently 99th percentile on all the the measures. But my early reader absolutely knows more things, and I have to believe that reading for a few extra years did contribute to that.

No, not every kid needs to learn to read early. However, it should NOT be discouraged, and early readers do end up getting smart.

Yes, I'm Asian, and I think expectations are too low and the culture is weirdly anti-academic in this country.

You should go back while you have the chance. The world order is about to change, and you don’t want to ensure your kids will always be third-rate because they went to school here.

+1. 99 percentile here is like 40 percentile back home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids both did PK3 and PK4 at a Title 1 DCPS, not one on your list, within the past three years.

Their experience was pretty similar to the L-T poster above.

They have a theme each quarter. Themes have included: Insects, Trees, Tubes and Tunnels, Signs, Buildings, etc. The kids get really into the theme.

Rough schedule of the day (the order has changed a bit class to class and year to year):

Breakfast
Morning Meeting - they talk about weather, days of the week, who has a birthday coming, etc. There's always a "question of the day" that the kids answer through some hands-on-voting system (has differed class to class), like "which food do you like better, pizza or French fries" or similar.
Recess - they get two 30 min recesses outside each day, one in the morning, one after nap.
Centers - This is pretty much true play. They pick where they play - the library to look at books, "Dramatic Play" which is like dress up and the play kitchen, blocks, water table, sand table, art table, there's at least one center around the theme. This is a full hour.
Specials - This is basically the same as I remember from elementary school. Spanish, Art, Music, Library, Yoga, PE, etc rotating throughout the week.
"Twiggle Time" - this is their social-emotional learning time when they talk about feelings and stuff. The "mascot" is a turtle named Twiggle.
Lunch
Nap (90 mins for PK3, 60 mins for PK4)
ELA - They have a reading/writing block. I think it's about 30 mins a day, and they mostly seem to read a book, talk about the book, draw a picture based on a question about the book, and write their names. They also learn letters and their sounds.
2nd Recess
Closing circle

I think in PK4 they add a math time. It also has a funny name but I forget what.

My kids were both "ahead" and at the end of PK4, both could count to 100 and recognize all the numbers, knew the alphabet and all the sounds the letters made (including a handful of combos like Ch and Th), and could write all the letters (big and little) and numbers and write their full names (first, middle, and last).

My oldest could also do some basic addition (numbers under 10) and my youngest could read a little (but I think she mostly figured that out just from the sounds, I don't think they taught that).

And they had more strategies about calming their bodies and dealing with hard emotions than 99% of current adults, myself included, haha.

Overall, as a layman, it seemed very play-based to me, and a pretty reasonable amount of academics. I will say, at least for my kids (who were at home with a nanny before PK3) PK3 was EXHAUSTING. Partly because they struggled to nap in a group environment, and I think partially because it's just a lot for pretty little kids. Interestingly, my friends with daycare kids, who I would have guessed would have found the switch more smooth, also really struggled at least the first month or two. It's a BIG transition (way bigger than the switch to K, for example).

It’s a non title 1 right? What I don’t see in the schedule is Building Blocks (math), which is apparently mandatory for all pre-k teachers to use but maybe not.

They are missing whole group and small group instruction -which again is supposedly mandatory.

PP here. This is a title 1 school.

Building Blocks! That’s the funny name! Yes, they do that but I thought it started in PK4. I could be wrong about that. There is both whole group and small group during the ELA and Building Blocks, and I believe sometimes they will also have one of the “centers” be a small group instruction in reading and/or math.

This sounds like way too much academics. I don’t agree with all these mandates going down to ECE teachers about it.

My kid did not have any academics and did not know almost all of the stuff PP said above (counting to 100, addition, etc,.). He knew the alphabet and still could not read in K.

ECE was so much fun and inquisitive and they did cool things like build an aquarium, set up a broadcast station, lots of great field trips, etc..

Just finished elementary and top student.

My kid started reading in PK4. By K he had abundant, access to stories, culture, information, ideas because he was already a strong independent reader.

Becoming a "top student" was never the point of teaching him to read.

Way to totally miss the point which is by 3rd grade the kids who were not reading yet have caught up to your kid and there is no difference.

Spending too much time pushing reading early at the expense of play is of no benefit and you lose learning other more important skills discussed above.

If you look at studies, the kids in head start might be more ahead academically but all gains are lost later.

This is a weird take.

I also had a very early reader who is now a teenager and he just .. knows a LOT due to all the books he's read. Reading accumulates, and early readers learn more. This shouldn't be disparaged.

Weird take but you don’t seriously think all kids reading 2 years earlier (preK 4 vs 1st) is going to learn more than the other kid in total content by the time they are teenagers, do you???

My kid was a later reader and he knows a LOT too due to all the books he’s read from 1st on.

PP and I mean... I kind of do. I have two kids, one was a very early reader (PK3!) on his own, the other it finally clicked in 1st grade and then he started reading voraciously. Both consistently 99th percentile on all the the measures. But my early reader absolutely knows more things, and I have to believe that reading for a few extra years did contribute to that.

No, not every kid needs to learn to read early. However, it should NOT be discouraged, and early readers do end up getting smart.

Yes, I'm Asian, and I think expectations are too low and the culture is weirdly anti-academic in this country.

You should go back while you have the chance. The world order is about to change, and you don’t want to ensure your kids will always be third-rate because they went to school here.

I'm not PP but go back where? Asia is a continent and people of Asian descent have been in the US since it's founding. There is absolutely no reason to believe the PP is any more an immigrant than you.

Get out of here with this racist BS.

[Anonymous]

It is not 10 minutes of academics. It is a couple of blocks so 1-2 hours?

Why are the adults running the show not looking at the research or understanding what is developmentally appropriate? Same with so much screen use so early in DCPS?

The big picture is that I don’t trust DCPS to know what is best for my kid. They obviously are not following best practices. I mean it doesn’t get any easier than ECE. If they don’t have best practices for this, there is little confidence IMO that they will for higher stakes in upper grades.

And the majority of parents on here at T1 schools who are actually making excuses and supporting this are not telling you is that they are playing the lottery every year for better schools. Things get worst past ECE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is not 10 minutes of academics. It is a couple of blocks so 1-2 hours?

Why are the adults running the show not looking at the research or understanding what is developmentally appropriate? Same with so much screen use so early in DCPS?

The big picture is that I don’t trust DCPS to know what is best for my kid. They obviously are not following best practices. I mean it doesn’t get any easier than ECE. If they don’t have best practices for this, there is little confidence IMO that they will for higher stakes in upper grades.

And the majority of parents on here at T1 schools who are actually making excuses and supporting this are not telling you is that they are playing the lottery every year for better schools. Things get worst past ECE.

Why do you think you know my child's daily schedule better than I do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is not 10 minutes of academics. It is a couple of blocks so 1-2 hours?

Why are the adults running the show not looking at the research or understanding what is developmentally appropriate? Same with so much screen use so early in DCPS?

The big picture is that I don’t trust DCPS to know what is best for my kid. They obviously are not following best practices. I mean it doesn’t get any easier than ECE. If they don’t have best practices for this, there is little confidence IMO that they will for higher stakes in upper grades.

And the majority of parents on here at T1 schools who are actually making excuses and supporting this are not telling you is that they are playing the lottery every year for better schools. Things get worst past ECE.

Oh FFS. I very much doubt it's 1-2 hours. Maaaaaybe 1 hour, total, over a day in PK4 when-- remember-- most of the kids are 5 years old by the end.

T1 parents are not playing the lottery *because* of this. I was a T1 parent and I was 1000% fine with my kid learning letters and numbers, and I thought our T1 preschool was terrific in part because they taught some of the kids to read. I was playing the lottery for a better middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not 10 minutes of academics. It is a couple of blocks so 1-2 hours?

Why are the adults running the show not looking at the research or understanding what is developmentally appropriate? Same with so much screen use so early in DCPS?

The big picture is that I don’t trust DCPS to know what is best for my kid. They obviously are not following best practices. I mean it doesn’t get any easier than ECE. If they don’t have best practices for this, there is little confidence IMO that they will for higher stakes in upper grades.

And the majority of parents on here at T1 schools who are actually making excuses and supporting this are not telling you is that they are playing the lottery every year for better schools. Things get worst past ECE.

Why do you think you know my child's daily schedule better than I do?

This. That comment feels deeply insecure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not 10 minutes of academics. It is a couple of blocks so 1-2 hours?

Why are the adults running the show not looking at the research or understanding what is developmentally appropriate? Same with so much screen use so early in DCPS?

The big picture is that I don’t trust DCPS to know what is best for my kid. They obviously are not following best practices. I mean it doesn’t get any easier than ECE. If they don’t have best practices for this, there is little confidence IMO that they will for higher stakes in upper grades.

And the majority of parents on here at T1 schools who are actually making excuses and supporting this are not telling you is that they are playing the lottery every year for better schools. Things get worst past ECE.

Oh FFS. I very much doubt it's 1-2 hours. Maaaaaybe 1 hour, total, over a day in PK4 when-- remember-- most of the kids are 5 years old by the end.

T1 parents are not playing the lottery *because* of this. I was a T1 parent and I was 1000% fine with my kid learning letters and numbers, and I thought our T1 preschool was terrific in part because they taught some of the kids to read. I was playing the lottery for a better middle school.

No one I know that has played the lottery has done so for ECE, we have people coming in for ECE and K, it's entirely for MS and HS.

Two of six hours is just lunch/recess/nap and another hour or so is specials usually. So that assumes the spend 2/3 of the remaining time sitting at tables doing worksheets and if teachers can get four year olds to sit still for two straight hours I mean bless them I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is not 10 minutes of academics. It is a couple of blocks so 1-2 hours?

Why are the adults running the show not looking at the research or understanding what is developmentally appropriate? Same with so much screen use so early in DCPS?

The big picture is that I don’t trust DCPS to know what is best for my kid. They obviously are not following best practices. I mean it doesn’t get any easier than ECE. If they don’t have best practices for this, there is little confidence IMO that they will for higher stakes in upper grades.

And the majority of parents on here at T1 schools who are actually making excuses and supporting this are not telling you is that they are playing the lottery every year for better schools. Things get worst past ECE.

Okay, so the "blocks" are when some children are doing play and the teacher is working with smaller groups of children. The teacher is not with all the children the entire block. During a literacy block, for example, some kids might be working on recognizing or tracing letters, sure. But kids who aren't ready for that will be doing something else related to literacy, like a rhyming game or a book read aloud. Try to understand the schedule before you complain about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids both did PK3 and PK4 at a Title 1 DCPS, not one on your list, within the past three years.

Their experience was pretty similar to the L-T poster above.

They have a theme each quarter. Themes have included: Insects, Trees, Tubes and Tunnels, Signs, Buildings, etc. The kids get really into the theme.

Rough schedule of the day (the order has changed a bit class to class and year to year):

Breakfast
Morning Meeting - they talk about weather, days of the week, who has a birthday coming, etc. There's always a "question of the day" that the kids answer through some hands-on-voting system (has differed class to class), like "which food do you like better, pizza or French fries" or similar.
Recess - they get two 30 min recesses outside each day, one in the morning, one after nap.
Centers - This is pretty much true play. They pick where they play - the library to look at books, "Dramatic Play" which is like dress up and the play kitchen, blocks, water table, sand table, art table, there's at least one center around the theme. This is a full hour.
Specials - This is basically the same as I remember from elementary school. Spanish, Art, Music, Library, Yoga, PE, etc rotating throughout the week.
"Twiggle Time" - this is their social-emotional learning time when they talk about feelings and stuff. The "mascot" is a turtle named Twiggle.
Lunch
Nap (90 mins for PK3, 60 mins for PK4)
ELA - They have a reading/writing block. I think it's about 30 mins a day, and they mostly seem to read a book, talk about the book, draw a picture based on a question about the book, and write their names. They also learn letters and their sounds.
2nd Recess
Closing circle

I think in PK4 they add a math time. It also has a funny name but I forget what.

My kids were both "ahead" and at the end of PK4, both could count to 100 and recognize all the numbers, knew the alphabet and all the sounds the letters made (including a handful of combos like Ch and Th), and could write all the letters (big and little) and numbers and write their full names (first, middle, and last).

My oldest could also do some basic addition (numbers under 10) and my youngest could read a little (but I think she mostly figured that out just from the sounds, I don't think they taught that).

And they had more strategies about calming their bodies and dealing with hard emotions than 99% of current adults, myself included, haha.

Overall, as a layman, it seemed very play-based to me, and a pretty reasonable amount of academics. I will say, at least for my kids (who were at home with a nanny before PK3) PK3 was EXHAUSTING. Partly because they struggled to nap in a group environment, and I think partially because it's just a lot for pretty little kids. Interestingly, my friends with daycare kids, who I would have guessed would have found the switch more smooth, also really struggled at least the first month or two. It's a BIG transition (way bigger than the switch to K, for example).

It’s a non title 1 right? What I don’t see in the schedule is Building Blocks (math), which is apparently mandatory for all pre-k teachers to use but maybe not.

They are missing whole group and small group instruction -which again is supposedly mandatory.

PP here. This is a title 1 school.

Building Blocks! That’s the funny name! Yes, they do that but I thought it started in PK4. I could be wrong about that. There is both whole group and small group during the ELA and Building Blocks, and I believe sometimes they will also have one of the “centers” be a small group instruction in reading and/or math.

This sounds like way too much academics. I don’t agree with all these mandates going down to ECE teachers about it.

My kid did not have any academics and did not know almost all of the stuff PP said above (counting to 100, addition, etc,.). He knew the alphabet and still could not read in K.

ECE was so much fun and inquisitive and they did cool things like build an aquarium, set up a broadcast station, lots of great field trips, etc..

Just finished elementary and top student.

My kid started reading in PK4. By K he had abundant, access to stories, culture, information, ideas because he was already a strong independent reader.

Becoming a "top student" was never the point of teaching him to read.

Way to totally miss the point which is by 3rd grade the kids who were not reading yet have caught up to your kid and there is no difference.

Spending too much time pushing reading early at the expense of play is of no benefit and you lose learning other more important skills discussed above.

If you look at studies, the kids in head start might be more ahead academically but all gains are lost later.

This is a weird take.

I also had a very early reader who is now a teenager and he just .. knows a LOT due to all the books he's read. Reading accumulates, and early readers learn more. This shouldn't be disparaged.

Yeah I understand the research but there seems to be a lot of just anti-academics not just pro-play.

This. There's a lot of Head Start research out there and it takes some expertise to interpret. But it's bizarre how people get so upset about 10 minutes of Heggerty or whatever. A is for apple and it won't kill ya to sing the alphabet song sometimes.

It's okay if some kids want to learn to read. Some kids mostly teach themselves to read and write if they're ahead of the class, and if they don't get instruction they can develop bad habits like not forming letters in the proper way, or pronouncing things phonetically that aren't phonetic in spoken English. They're better off with a little instruction to go with their enthusiasm.

I think you’re not getting the nuance here. Play is learning, it is academics -just not in the traditional sense. Songs/real music is imperative for learning.

I knew I should not have commented because there would be comments over generalizing or not getting the point. Especially because parents don’t want to feel like they failed or are failing their child.

We all do the best we can -obviously teacher too.

I know you did not read all the comments but I did state if a child is interested in reading it’s not going to harm them. What IS harmful is forcing ALL children to learn to read at 3/4 years old.

Your example’s aren’t disproving what I have stated. Again, the research is clear. Play is learning!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not 10 minutes of academics. It is a couple of blocks so 1-2 hours?

Why are the adults running the show not looking at the research or understanding what is developmentally appropriate? Same with so much screen use so early in DCPS?

The big picture is that I don’t trust DCPS to know what is best for my kid. They obviously are not following best practices. I mean it doesn’t get any easier than ECE. If they don’t have best practices for this, there is little confidence IMO that they will for higher stakes in upper grades.

And the majority of parents on here at T1 schools who are actually making excuses and supporting this are not telling you is that they are playing the lottery every year for better schools. Things get worst past ECE.

Oh FFS. I very much doubt it's 1-2 hours. Maaaaaybe 1 hour, total, over a day in PK4 when-- remember-- most of the kids are 5 years old by the end.

T1 parents are not playing the lottery *because* of this. I was a T1 parent and I was 1000% fine with my kid learning letters and numbers, and I thought our T1 preschool was terrific in part because they taught some of the kids to read. I was playing the lottery for a better middle school.

No one I know that has played the lottery has done so for ECE, we have people coming in for ECE and K, it's entirely for MS and HS.

Two of six hours is just lunch/recess/nap and another hour or so is specials usually. So that assumes the spend 2/3 of the remaining time sitting at tables doing worksheets and if teachers can get four year olds to sit still for two straight hours I mean bless them I guess.

Absolutely you can. It’s never 2-3 hours straight. It’s broken into chunks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids both did PK3 and PK4 at a Title 1 DCPS, not one on your list, within the past three years.

Their experience was pretty similar to the L-T poster above.

They have a theme each quarter. Themes have included: Insects, Trees, Tubes and Tunnels, Signs, Buildings, etc. The kids get really into the theme.

Rough schedule of the day (the order has changed a bit class to class and year to year):

Breakfast
Morning Meeting - they talk about weather, days of the week, who has a birthday coming, etc. There's always a "question of the day" that the kids answer through some hands-on-voting system (has differed class to class), like "which food do you like better, pizza or French fries" or similar.
Recess - they get two 30 min recesses outside each day, one in the morning, one after nap.
Centers - This is pretty much true play. They pick where they play - the library to look at books, "Dramatic Play" which is like dress up and the play kitchen, blocks, water table, sand table, art table, there's at least one center around the theme. This is a full hour.
Specials - This is basically the same as I remember from elementary school. Spanish, Art, Music, Library, Yoga, PE, etc rotating throughout the week.
"Twiggle Time" - this is their social-emotional learning time when they talk about feelings and stuff. The "mascot" is a turtle named Twiggle.
Lunch
Nap (90 mins for PK3, 60 mins for PK4)
ELA - They have a reading/writing block. I think it's about 30 mins a day, and they mostly seem to read a book, talk about the book, draw a picture based on a question about the book, and write their names. They also learn letters and their sounds.
2nd Recess
Closing circle

I think in PK4 they add a math time. It also has a funny name but I forget what.

My kids were both "ahead" and at the end of PK4, both could count to 100 and recognize all the numbers, knew the alphabet and all the sounds the letters made (including a handful of combos like Ch and Th), and could write all the letters (big and little) and numbers and write their full names (first, middle, and last).

My oldest could also do some basic addition (numbers under 10) and my youngest could read a little (but I think she mostly figured that out just from the sounds, I don't think they taught that).

And they had more strategies about calming their bodies and dealing with hard emotions than 99% of current adults, myself included, haha.

Overall, as a layman, it seemed very play-based to me, and a pretty reasonable amount of academics. I will say, at least for my kids (who were at home with a nanny before PK3) PK3 was EXHAUSTING. Partly because they struggled to nap in a group environment, and I think partially because it's just a lot for pretty little kids. Interestingly, my friends with daycare kids, who I would have guessed would have found the switch more smooth, also really struggled at least the first month or two. It's a BIG transition (way bigger than the switch to K, for example).

It’s a non title 1 right? What I don’t see in the schedule is Building Blocks (math), which is apparently mandatory for all pre-k teachers to use but maybe not.

They are missing whole group and small group instruction -which again is supposedly mandatory.

PP here. This is a title 1 school.

Building Blocks! That’s the funny name! Yes, they do that but I thought it started in PK4. I could be wrong about that. There is both whole group and small group during the ELA and Building Blocks, and I believe sometimes they will also have one of the “centers” be a small group instruction in reading and/or math.

This sounds like way too much academics. I don’t agree with all these mandates going down to ECE teachers about it.

My kid did not have any academics and did not know almost all of the stuff PP said above (counting to 100, addition, etc,.). He knew the alphabet and still could not read in K.

ECE was so much fun and inquisitive and they did cool things like build an aquarium, set up a broadcast station, lots of great field trips, etc..

Just finished elementary and top student.

My kid started reading in PK4. By K he had abundant, access to stories, culture, information, ideas because he was already a strong independent reader.

Becoming a "top student" was never the point of teaching him to read.

Way to totally miss the point which is by 3rd grade the kids who were not reading yet have caught up to your kid and there is no difference.

Spending too much time pushing reading early at the expense of play is of no benefit and you lose learning other more important skills discussed above.

If you look at studies, the kids in head start might be more ahead academically but all gains are lost later.

This is a weird take.

I also had a very early reader who is now a teenager and he just .. knows a LOT due to all the books he's read. Reading accumulates, and early readers learn more. This shouldn't be disparaged.

Yeah I understand the research but there seems to be a lot of just anti-academics not just pro-play.

This. There's a lot of Head Start research out there and it takes some expertise to interpret. But it's bizarre how people get so upset about 10 minutes of Heggerty or whatever. A is for apple and it won't kill ya to sing the alphabet song sometimes.

It's okay if some kids want to learn to read. Some kids mostly teach themselves to read and write if they're ahead of the class, and if they don't get instruction they can develop bad habits like not forming letters in the proper way, or pronouncing things phonetically that aren't phonetic in spoken English. They're better off with a little instruction to go with their enthusiasm.

I think you’re not getting the nuance here. Play is learning, it is academics -just not in the traditional sense. Songs/real music is imperative for learning.

I knew I should not have commented because there would be comments over generalizing or not getting the point. Especially because parents don’t want to feel like they failed or are failing their child.

We all do the best we can -obviously teacher too.

I know you did not read all the comments but I did state if a child is interested in reading it’s not going to harm them. What IS harmful is forcing ALL children to learn to read at 3/4 years old.

Your example’s aren’t disproving what I have stated. Again, the research is clear. Play is learning!

I understand that perfectly well. I'm trying to tell you that nobody is forcing them. If they tried, it wouldn't work. The children are being exposed to early literacy concepts, and I don't believe that's harmful. Some children are getting a small amount of explicit early reading instruction and I don't believe that's harmful to them, or to the other children who are present while it happens. It's what you get in a classroom where some kids are ready and some kids are not. There is plenty of play and it's not harmful to do a bit of phonics too. You don't get to withhold it from children who are ready just because your child isn't or you don't like it. You don't get to dictate how the public school system works based on your reading of the research. In the public system we all have to compromise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not 10 minutes of academics. It is a couple of blocks so 1-2 hours?

Why are the adults running the show not looking at the research or understanding what is developmentally appropriate? Same with so much screen use so early in DCPS?

The big picture is that I don’t trust DCPS to know what is best for my kid. They obviously are not following best practices. I mean it doesn’t get any easier than ECE. If they don’t have best practices for this, there is little confidence IMO that they will for higher stakes in upper grades.

And the majority of parents on here at T1 schools who are actually making excuses and supporting this are not telling you is that they are playing the lottery every year for better schools. Things get worst past ECE.

Oh FFS. I very much doubt it's 1-2 hours. Maaaaaybe 1 hour, total, over a day in PK4 when-- remember-- most of the kids are 5 years old by the end.

T1 parents are not playing the lottery *because* of this. I was a T1 parent and I was 1000% fine with my kid learning letters and numbers, and I thought our T1 preschool was terrific in part because they taught some of the kids to read. I was playing the lottery for a better middle school.

No one I know that has played the lottery has done so for ECE, we have people coming in for ECE and K, it's entirely for MS and HS.

Two of six hours is just lunch/recess/nap and another hour or so is specials usually. So that assumes the spend 2/3 of the remaining time sitting at tables doing worksheets and if teachers can get four year olds to sit still for two straight hours I mean bless them I guess.

Absolutely you can. It’s never 2-3 hours straight. It’s broken into chunks.

Please provide a schedule that includes the mandated amount of time for lunch and recess, plus specials and a 90-minute nap, and all transitions, and still includes 2-3 hours of seat work. Don't forget potty breaks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids both did PK3 and PK4 at a Title 1 DCPS, not one on your list, within the past three years.

Their experience was pretty similar to the L-T poster above.

They have a theme each quarter. Themes have included: Insects, Trees, Tubes and Tunnels, Signs, Buildings, etc. The kids get really into the theme.

Rough schedule of the day (the order has changed a bit class to class and year to year):

Breakfast
Morning Meeting - they talk about weather, days of the week, who has a birthday coming, etc. There's always a "question of the day" that the kids answer through some hands-on-voting system (has differed class to class), like "which food do you like better, pizza or French fries" or similar.
Recess - they get two 30 min recesses outside each day, one in the morning, one after nap.
Centers - This is pretty much true play. They pick where they play - the library to look at books, "Dramatic Play" which is like dress up and the play kitchen, blocks, water table, sand table, art table, there's at least one center around the theme. This is a full hour.
Specials - This is basically the same as I remember from elementary school. Spanish, Art, Music, Library, Yoga, PE, etc rotating throughout the week.
"Twiggle Time" - this is their social-emotional learning time when they talk about feelings and stuff. The "mascot" is a turtle named Twiggle.
Lunch
Nap (90 mins for PK3, 60 mins for PK4)
ELA - They have a reading/writing block. I think it's about 30 mins a day, and they mostly seem to read a book, talk about the book, draw a picture based on a question about the book, and write their names. They also learn letters and their sounds.
2nd Recess
Closing circle

I think in PK4 they add a math time. It also has a funny name but I forget what.

My kids were both "ahead" and at the end of PK4, both could count to 100 and recognize all the numbers, knew the alphabet and all the sounds the letters made (including a handful of combos like Ch and Th), and could write all the letters (big and little) and numbers and write their full names (first, middle, and last).

My oldest could also do some basic addition (numbers under 10) and my youngest could read a little (but I think she mostly figured that out just from the sounds, I don't think they taught that).

And they had more strategies about calming their bodies and dealing with hard emotions than 99% of current adults, myself included, haha.

Overall, as a layman, it seemed very play-based to me, and a pretty reasonable amount of academics. I will say, at least for my kids (who were at home with a nanny before PK3) PK3 was EXHAUSTING. Partly because they struggled to nap in a group environment, and I think partially because it's just a lot for pretty little kids. Interestingly, my friends with daycare kids, who I would have guessed would have found the switch more smooth, also really struggled at least the first month or two. It's a BIG transition (way bigger than the switch to K, for example).

It’s a non title 1 right? What I don’t see in the schedule is Building Blocks (math), which is apparently mandatory for all pre-k teachers to use but maybe not.

They are missing whole group and small group instruction -which again is supposedly mandatory.

PP here. This is a title 1 school.

Building Blocks! That’s the funny name! Yes, they do that but I thought it started in PK4. I could be wrong about that. There is both whole group and small group during the ELA and Building Blocks, and I believe sometimes they will also have one of the “centers” be a small group instruction in reading and/or math.

This sounds like way too much academics. I don’t agree with all these mandates going down to ECE teachers about it.

My kid did not have any academics and did not know almost all of the stuff PP said above (counting to 100, addition, etc,.). He knew the alphabet and still could not read in K.

ECE was so much fun and inquisitive and they did cool things like build an aquarium, set up a broadcast station, lots of great field trips, etc..

Just finished elementary and top student.

My kid started reading in PK4. By K he had abundant, access to stories, culture, information, ideas because he was already a strong independent reader.

Becoming a "top student" was never the point of teaching him to read.

Way to totally miss the point which is by 3rd grade the kids who were not reading yet have caught up to your kid and there is no difference.

Spending too much time pushing reading early at the expense of play is of no benefit and you lose learning other more important skills discussed above.

If you look at studies, the kids in head start might be more ahead academically but all gains are lost later.

Okay, no. Not all gains are lost later. Some gains are less visible but then re-emerge when the kids are older. And academics are only one part of the purpose of Head Start. There's a lot of variety in Head Start research outcomes and PP is very wrong to make such broad, conclusory statements.

https://www.chalkbeat.org/2019/8/8/21108602/a-new-study-questions-whether-head-start-still-produces-long-run-gains-seen-in-past-research/

The 2019 study doesn’t disprove the value of play-based learning - it demonstrates the consequences of abandoning it. Head Start has been declining.

Head Start worked when it focused on comprehensive care, health, nutrition, family support, and developmentally appropriate activities. It stopped working when programs shifted toward academic instruction and “school readiness” benchmarks.

Gray suggests Head Start would work better if we removed the ‘schoolishness’ and reverted to greater focus on care - providing healthy meals, medical attention, a safe place to spend the day, and lots of opportunity to PLAY and explore with other kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids both did PK3 and PK4 at a Title 1 DCPS, not one on your list, within the past three years.

Their experience was pretty similar to the L-T poster above.

They have a theme each quarter. Themes have included: Insects, Trees, Tubes and Tunnels, Signs, Buildings, etc. The kids get really into the theme.

Rough schedule of the day (the order has changed a bit class to class and year to year):

Breakfast
Morning Meeting - they talk about weather, days of the week, who has a birthday coming, etc. There's always a "question of the day" that the kids answer through some hands-on-voting system (has differed class to class), like "which food do you like better, pizza or French fries" or similar.
Recess - they get two 30 min recesses outside each day, one in the morning, one after nap.
Centers - This is pretty much true play. They pick where they play - the library to look at books, "Dramatic Play" which is like dress up and the play kitchen, blocks, water table, sand table, art table, there's at least one center around the theme. This is a full hour.
Specials - This is basically the same as I remember from elementary school. Spanish, Art, Music, Library, Yoga, PE, etc rotating throughout the week.
"Twiggle Time" - this is their social-emotional learning time when they talk about feelings and stuff. The "mascot" is a turtle named Twiggle.
Lunch
Nap (90 mins for PK3, 60 mins for PK4)
ELA - They have a reading/writing block. I think it's about 30 mins a day, and they mostly seem to read a book, talk about the book, draw a picture based on a question about the book, and write their names. They also learn letters and their sounds.
2nd Recess
Closing circle

I think in PK4 they add a math time. It also has a funny name but I forget what.

My kids were both "ahead" and at the end of PK4, both could count to 100 and recognize all the numbers, knew the alphabet and all the sounds the letters made (including a handful of combos like Ch and Th), and could write all the letters (big and little) and numbers and write their full names (first, middle, and last).

My oldest could also do some basic addition (numbers under 10) and my youngest could read a little (but I think she mostly figured that out just from the sounds, I don't think they taught that).

And they had more strategies about calming their bodies and dealing with hard emotions than 99% of current adults, myself included, haha.

Overall, as a layman, it seemed very play-based to me, and a pretty reasonable amount of academics. I will say, at least for my kids (who were at home with a nanny before PK3) PK3 was EXHAUSTING. Partly because they struggled to nap in a group environment, and I think partially because it's just a lot for pretty little kids. Interestingly, my friends with daycare kids, who I would have guessed would have found the switch more smooth, also really struggled at least the first month or two. It's a BIG transition (way bigger than the switch to K, for example).

It’s a non title 1 right? What I don’t see in the schedule is Building Blocks (math), which is apparently mandatory for all pre-k teachers to use but maybe not.

They are missing whole group and small group instruction -which again is supposedly mandatory.

PP here. This is a title 1 school.

Building Blocks! That’s the funny name! Yes, they do that but I thought it started in PK4. I could be wrong about that. There is both whole group and small group during the ELA and Building Blocks, and I believe sometimes they will also have one of the “centers” be a small group instruction in reading and/or math.

This sounds like way too much academics. I don’t agree with all these mandates going down to ECE teachers about it.

My kid did not have any academics and did not know almost all of the stuff PP said above (counting to 100, addition, etc,.). He knew the alphabet and still could not read in K.

ECE was so much fun and inquisitive and they did cool things like build an aquarium, set up a broadcast station, lots of great field trips, etc..

Just finished elementary and top student.

My kid started reading in PK4. By K he had abundant, access to stories, culture, information, ideas because he was already a strong independent reader.

Becoming a "top student" was never the point of teaching him to read.

Way to totally miss the point which is by 3rd grade the kids who were not reading yet have caught up to your kid and there is no difference.

Spending too much time pushing reading early at the expense of play is of no benefit and you lose learning other more important skills discussed above.

If you look at studies, the kids in head start might be more ahead academically but all gains are lost later.

This is a weird take.

I also had a very early reader who is now a teenager and he just .. knows a LOT due to all the books he's read. Reading accumulates, and early readers learn more. This shouldn't be disparaged.

Yeah I understand the research but there seems to be a lot of just anti-academics not just pro-play.

This. There's a lot of Head Start research out there and it takes some expertise to interpret. But it's bizarre how people get so upset about 10 minutes of Heggerty or whatever. A is for apple and it won't kill ya to sing the alphabet song sometimes.

It's okay if some kids want to learn to read. Some kids mostly teach themselves to read and write if they're ahead of the class, and if they don't get instruction they can develop bad habits like not forming letters in the proper way, or pronouncing things phonetically that aren't phonetic in spoken English. They're better off with a little instruction to go with their enthusiasm.

I think you’re not getting the nuance here. Play is learning, it is academics -just not in the traditional sense. Songs/real music is imperative for learning.

I knew I should not have commented because there would be comments over generalizing or not getting the point. Especially because parents don’t want to feel like they failed or are failing their child.

We all do the best we can -obviously teacher too.

I know you did not read all the comments but I did state if a child is interested in reading it’s not going to harm them. What IS harmful is forcing ALL children to learn to read at 3/4 years old.

Your example’s aren’t disproving what I have stated. Again, the research is clear. Play is learning!

Wow so condescending! Play is learning! Really don't know how you get from there to nobody should ever, ever, ever have to do a few minutes of phonics if they aren't ready. If your kid is not ready they'll just have to let it pass by them. I think it's the parents of late readers who feel like they failed or are failing their child. So they want to hold everyone else back and act like any explicit early literacy instruction is somehow poisonous and ruining the purity of their supposedly 100% play-based preschool experience.