Met with a family member who is a professor and it let us to dropping several potential colleges from consideration

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So …newish here…things I’m taking away, hope they are right…
Look for a university where students will be taught by professors with teaching skill and the right incentives to teach well. In at least part this means neither pressure to focus on research nor diminished need to teach well because of research focus.
Being in large classes with grad students as teachers can be a sign your student won’t get their moneys worth out of a class/major/university.
This suggests that a smaller university/LAC with focus on the majoring department a good way to avoid that.
Taking an underresourced major is a bad idea.
It would be great to have an insider tell you if a particular department is bad. It seems hard to find this but some people get lucky, e.g., by having professor uncles.

JMU fits this description

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Professors are generally arrogant blow hards with unearned superiority complexes.

Yep. Absolutely. That's why I'm up grading right now.

It does, however, make me wonder why you all seem to want so badly to send your children to study with people like me. If we're so useless and awful, why waste money on us? Surely you could find other ways to purchase a decent life for your kid. And my life would certainly be easier if the only students in my classroom were the ones who actually wanted to be there.

Get over yourself and your self-absorption. Everyone works long hours in their careers at some point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Professors are generally arrogant blow hards with unearned superiority complexes.

Yep. Absolutely. That's why I'm up grading right now.

It does, however, make me wonder why you all seem to want so badly to send your children to study with people like me. If we're so useless and awful, why waste money on us? Surely you could find other ways to purchase a decent life for your kid. And my life would certainly be easier if the only students in my classroom were the ones who actually wanted to be there.

Get over yourself and your self-absorption. Everyone works long hours in their careers at some point.

What does working long hours have to do with the point that parents disparage professors as "arrogant blow hards with unearned superiority complexes" and at the same time are willing spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to have their children spend four years studying with them? I think that the professor PP makes a good point. I feel bad for kids whose parents look down on professors. What kind of college expectations are you setting up for your child? And god forbid your child actually enjoys learning for one of the blow hards. Do you think that your child will want to share that excitement with you?

[Anonymous]

If you look at the time stamp of the professor’s post, it’s 2 am. He/she is up late working and complaining about it. We all have to work late sometimes. Get over it or find a different job.

And yeah, I think professors are self-absorbed, arrogant blowhards whose puffed-up sense of self-importance far outweighs the drivel that they constantly publish and teach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you look at the time stamp of the professor’s post, it’s 2 am. He/she is up late working and complaining about it. We all have to work late sometimes. Get over it or find a different job.

And yeah, I think professors are self-absorbed, arrogant blowhards whose puffed-up sense of self-importance far outweighs the drivel that they constantly publish and teach.

Again, why are you sending your child to college to take classes with professors? If you truly believed this, why not refuse to send your child to college and instead spend four years as an apprentice somehwere?
Frankly, you sound deeply insecure.

[Anonymous]

Lol, I’m doing great here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you look at the time stamp of the professor’s post, it’s 2 am. He/she is up late working and complaining about it. We all have to work late sometimes. Get over it or find a different job.

And yeah, I think professors are self-absorbed, arrogant blowhards whose puffed-up sense of self-importance far outweighs the drivel that they constantly publish and teach.

Again, why are you sending your child to college to take classes with professors? If you truly believed this, why not refuse to send your child to college and instead spend four years as an apprentice somehwere?
Frankly, you sound deeply insecure.

1. You have no idea why they are awake at 2am, it may just be insomnia.

2. Everyone I'm related to is a professor or a teacher, and yes, they are arrogant blowhards. Most truly believe that their one, small area of expertise allows them authority in all other areas of expertise and they look down on anyone who chose to leverage their intellect in a lucrative field. Or who are pursuing funded research.

So yes, I find their opinions to be biased and self-serving.

3. I value professors and education, but I don't want my child's opportunities to be limited by a SLAC. The professor in OP's post seemed to imply that you can only benefit from an educational model of a small school with professors only focused on teaching. I disagree. I send my child to a mid-sized T20 school, R1, with lots of professional schools in affiliation, because I think that educational model is the right fit for this generation of academically motivated kids. Mid-sized provides plenty of close contact with professors/labs/research opportunities, without being oppressively small or isolated geographically. RI and affiliation with graduate schools means even more opportunities for shadowing, research, and visualizing career pathways.

There are lots of opportunities to work closely with professors, both those who are focused only on teaching and those doing exciting research.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Professors are generally arrogant blow hards with unearned superiority complexes.

Yep. Absolutely. That's why I'm up grading right now.

It does, however, make me wonder why you all seem to want so badly to send your children to study with people like me. If we're so useless and awful, why waste money on us? Surely you could find other ways to purchase a decent life for your kid. And my life would certainly be easier if the only students in my classroom were the ones who actually wanted to be there.

I want my kid to study with professors who value/respect careers outside of academia. Most at SLACs do not. As evidenced in your own post, it's not an easy or lucrative life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Some might find this info helpful, but if not just ignore.

I did quite a bit of due diligence on things that I valued as kids were getting close to college.

1. College outcomes. How did the students fare for that particular major in that particular college. What sort of support was provided by college? Did the students get them through alumni, campus visits, etc.

2. Rigor in core classes: compared course rigor and especially the scoring. You can learn a lot by comparing how a similar course is graded at different universities. It tells you what level the college is expecting the students to be at and what base level knowledge they are assuming.

3. Class sizes and ease of getting the courses especially major related. Ability to take advanced courses.

Even after I gathered this information I was surprised by some of the information that was shared by the professors. When a professor in a college says avoid this particular major in this college and gives the reasons, I am just going to avoid them.

To give an example: Test optional had an impact but they are not 100% sure if that is because of test optional or due to Covid era loss, but now it is impacting how courses are taught and the problems it is creating at that university. They point out that their colleagues at university x & y are seeing it as well, but z seems to be not having that problem.

This is over the top controlling and/or trying to control outcomes.

And then you come back and post that my child is not able to find a job, please help.

Pick colleges based on vibe and ignore the important things. It is because of people like you we have "Americans no longer see 4-year college degrees as worth the cost". LOL

My kids will figure it out just like I did. They don't need me snowplowing their college or majors based on some misguided sense of trying to outsmart the system. Sometimes life is uncertain. That is where it is lived.

LOL

In no other arena do people spend $200k to $400k and 4 years of their life without researching what the experience entails - what you learn, what the median expectation is in terms of outcomes, etc. People spend more time researching gadgets worth a few hundred dollars.

Children need to know what jobs can be reasonably expected coming out with a specific major, what work looks like in that kinds of jobs, etc. You are not picking these choices, but educating kids on the options, so they can make informed choices.

But it looks like most people spend an inordinate time on vibe, suburban/rural/city, size and other such factors.

+1. Second only to the purchase of a house is the expense of a college education. Parents need to be engaged and alert. Careers are drying up right and left due to AI. Some majors (psych/sociology) were never critical majors in terms of jobs but got kids into law school. Today, do you want to drop $400k for that? Either parents need to be engaged in the process or you need to hire a knowledgeable counselor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you look at the time stamp of the professor’s post, it’s 2 am. He/she is up late working and complaining about it. We all have to work late sometimes. Get over it or find a different job.

And yeah, I think professors are self-absorbed, arrogant blowhards whose puffed-up sense of self-importance far outweighs the drivel that they constantly publish and teach.

Again, why are you sending your child to college to take classes with professors? If you truly believed this, why not refuse to send your child to college and instead spend four years as an apprentice somehwere?
Frankly, you sound deeply insecure.

1. You have no idea why they are awake at 2am, it may just be insomnia.

2. Everyone I'm related to is a professor or a teacher, and yes, they are arrogant blowhards. Most truly believe that their one, small area of expertise allows them authority in all other areas of expertise and they look down on anyone who chose to leverage their intellect in a lucrative field. Or who are pursuing funded research.

So yes, I find their opinions to be biased and self-serving.

3. I value professors and education, but I don't want my child's opportunities to be limited by a SLAC. The professor in OP's post seemed to imply that you can only benefit from an educational model of a small school with professors only focused on teaching. I disagree. I send my child to a mid-sized T20 school, R1, with lots of professional schools in affiliation, because I think that educational model is the right fit for this generation of academically motivated kids. Mid-sized provides plenty of close contact with professors/labs/research opportunities, without being oppressively small or isolated geographically. RI and affiliation with graduate schools means even more opportunities for shadowing, research, and visualizing career pathways.

There are lots of opportunities to work closely with professors, both those who are focused only on teaching and those doing exciting research.

Late-night PP here.

1. Too many meetings during the day to get to what my students deserved, so late night it is. Some jobs don't come home with people at night. Many jobs do, and this is one of them. But addressing students' needs isn't a function of ego.

2. Fair in terms of your response to your own relatives, but please don't extend it to the whole profession. Like folks in other fields, most of us tend to want to do the right thing and work very hard at it. I love my career and don't mind that it's not what other people want to do. The world needs us all in different ways.

3. It sounds like you found a good match for your kid - and provided an example of how great teaching, mentoring, and research can be available at many different kinds of institutions. You genuinely have to take it one department at a time in many cases. Just because an institution hires and fires based on teaching doesn't mean all of the faculty are great teachers any more than every tenured scientist at an R1 is a prizewinning researcher. Most departments will welcome a prospective student to spend a real day with them, and kids can learn a lot that way when they are trying to make college choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only believing this if you list the unis and colleges ...

+1

My kids are working hard writing papers, taking exams/quizzes, doing labs, etc. My DD is a poly sci major and writes ALL THE TIME. My DS is a biochem major and is ALWAYS STUDYING.

What's Poly Sci?
Or did you misspell Poli Sci - as in, political science?

We spelled it “poly sci” in the 1980s.

No, we didn't.

1980's state flagship graduate who majored in the subject.

Poly Sci, why try? I assume you went to grad school and got a degree in something actual worthwhile and employable.

[Anonymous]

I worked at a T15 private university in the provost area. Also worked for a public university system in another state in a very senior role.

I am suggesting to my kids that they attend state universities because we don't qualify for need-based aid. My kids are not likely to get large merit scholarships for top schools. The amount of waste I saw at the T15 private was absurd and I don't plan to bankrupt myself for the privilege of sending a child to one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I worked at a T15 private university in the provost area. Also worked for a public university system in another state in a very senior role.

I am suggesting to my kids that they attend state universities because we don't qualify for need-based aid. My kids are not likely to get large merit scholarships for top schools. The amount of waste I saw at the T15 private was absurd and I don't plan to bankrupt myself for the privilege of sending a child to one.

Agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Professors are generally arrogant blow hards with unearned superiority complexes.

Yep. Absolutely. That's why I'm up grading right now.

It does, however, make me wonder why you all seem to want so badly to send your children to study with people like me. If we're so useless and awful, why waste money on us? Surely you could find other ways to purchase a decent life for your kid. And my life would certainly be easier if the only students in my classroom were the ones who actually wanted to be there.

I want my kid to study with professors who value/respect careers outside of academia. Most at SLACs do not. As evidenced in your own post, it's not an easy or lucrative life.

If you actually knew professors, you would know that we all strongly discourage students from going into academia. We are fully and painfully aware that tenure-line positions are few and far between, that the pay is insufficient, and that combining an academic life with family can be very difficult. So, I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that professors don't value or respect careers outside of academia. We do and 99% of the time encourage our students to pursue careers outside of academia. I've been a professor for 25 years, and I can count on one hand the number of students I've thought would actually succeed and encouraged to pursue an academic career.
If you're the same person who keeps posting about blowhard professors, please rethink your wrong stereotype of academia. You have convinced yourself that your narrow view of the academy is correct, and there are several professors on this thread who are telling you that you need to broaden your view.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you look at the time stamp of the professor’s post, it’s 2 am. He/she is up late working and complaining about it. We all have to work late sometimes. Get over it or find a different job.

And yeah, I think professors are self-absorbed, arrogant blowhards whose puffed-up sense of self-importance far outweighs the drivel that they constantly publish and teach.

Again, why are you sending your child to college to take classes with professors? If you truly believed this, why not refuse to send your child to college and instead spend four years as an apprentice somehwere?
Frankly, you sound deeply insecure.

1. You have no idea why they are awake at 2am, it may just be insomnia.

2. Everyone I'm related to is a professor or a teacher, and yes, they are arrogant blowhards. Most truly believe that their one, small area of expertise allows them authority in all other areas of expertise and they look down on anyone who chose to leverage their intellect in a lucrative field. Or who are pursuing funded research.

So yes, I find their opinions to be biased and self-serving.

3. I value professors and education, but I don't want my child's opportunities to be limited by a SLAC. The professor in OP's post seemed to imply that you can only benefit from an educational model of a small school with professors only focused on teaching. I disagree. I send my child to a mid-sized T20 school, R1, with lots of professional schools in affiliation, because I think that educational model is the right fit for this generation of academically motivated kids. Mid-sized provides plenty of close contact with professors/labs/research opportunities, without being oppressively small or isolated geographically. RI and affiliation with graduate schools means even more opportunities for shadowing, research, and visualizing career pathways.

There are lots of opportunities to work closely with professors, both those who are focused only on teaching and those doing exciting research.

Not in our experience at a T10. SLACs are superior in terms of research opportunities and faculty interaction. Again, in our experience, career services are far superior, too. My two kids at SLACs have been strongly encouraged to explore careers outside of academia via introductions as well as recommendations. This clearly varies by school but I find your generalizations to be off base.