Met with a family member who is a professor and it let us to dropping several potential colleges from consideration

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Some might find this info helpful, but if not just ignore.

I did quite a bit of due diligence on things that I valued as kids were getting close to college.

1. College outcomes. How did the students fare for that particular major in that particular college. What sort of support was provided by college? Did the students get them through alumni, campus visits, etc.

2. Rigor in core classes: compared course rigor and especially the scoring. You can learn a lot by comparing how a similar course is graded at different universities. It tells you what level the college is expecting the students to be at and what base level knowledge they are assuming.

3. Class sizes and ease of getting the courses especially major related. Ability to take advanced courses.

Even after I gathered this information I was surprised by some of the information that was shared by the professors. When a professor in a college says avoid this particular major in this college and gives the reasons, I am just going to avoid them.

To give an example: Test optional had an impact but they are not 100% sure if that is because of test optional or due to Covid era loss, but now it is impacting how courses are taught and the problems it is creating at that university. They point out that their colleagues at university x & y are seeing it as well, but z seems to be not having that problem.

This is over the top controlling and/or trying to control outcomes.

And then you come back and post that my child is not able to find a job, please help.

Pick colleges based on vibe and ignore the important things. It is because of people like you we have "Americans no longer see 4-year college degrees as worth the cost". LOL

My kids will figure it out just like I did. They don't need me snowplowing their college or majors based on some misguided sense of trying to outsmart the system. Sometimes life is uncertain. That is where it is lived.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only believing this if you list the unis and colleges ...

+1

My kids are working hard writing papers, taking exams/quizzes, doing labs, etc. My DD is a poly sci major and writes ALL THE TIME. My DS is a biochem major and is ALWAYS STUDYING.

What's Poly Sci?
Or did you misspell Poli Sci - as in, political science?

We spelled it “poly sci” in the 1980s.

[Anonymous]

Professors are generally arrogant blow hards with unearned superiority complexes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Professors are generally arrogant blow hards with unearned superiority complexes.

No, but it sounds like you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only believing this if you list the unis and colleges ...

+1

My kids are working hard writing papers, taking exams/quizzes, doing labs, etc. My DD is a poly sci major and writes ALL THE TIME. My DS is a biochem major and is ALWAYS STUDYING.

What's Poly Sci?
Or did you misspell Poli Sci - as in, political science?

We spelled it “poly sci” in the 1980s.

No, we didn't.

1980's state flagship graduate who majored in the subject.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a professor too. You are somewhat accurate in what you describe but so much of that is irrelevant or without context. Scheduling classes two days per week? You realize teaching is contractually about 40-50% of the job, right? When are they supposed to do their other work? Answering questions on a phone? That's Kahoot. It's fun and not bad at all. AI, budget cuts, that's across the board. Unavoidable.

Chill.

Kahoot is fun, but it's a middle school and non-honors high school thing. There's a reason why you won't find Kahoot at HYPSM or even Phillips academy.

Meh, we had clickers back when I was at Princeton. It was just to gauge knowledge gaps efficiently for a professor who was teaching a relatively large course. Sometimes basic things do work- we don't always have to turn our noses up to something efficient and successful.

Right? We had this at Duke 20+ years ago (but yes, with clickers, not iPhones). Professors used it to keep us engaged and paying attention. Results would be projected on a screen. It all felt very high tech at the time!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only believing this if you list the unis and colleges ...

+1

My kids are working hard writing papers, taking exams/quizzes, doing labs, etc. My DD is a poly sci major and writes ALL THE TIME. My DS is a biochem major and is ALWAYS STUDYING.

What's Poly Sci?
Or did you misspell Poli Sci - as in, political science?

We spelled it “poly sci” in the 1980s.

No, we didn't.

1980's state flagship graduate who majored in the subject.

I also attended a state flagship. It must be regional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only believing this if you list the unis and colleges ...

+1

My kids are working hard writing papers, taking exams/quizzes, doing labs, etc. My DD is a poly sci major and writes ALL THE TIME. My DS is a biochem major and is ALWAYS STUDYING.

What's Poly Sci?
Or did you misspell Poli Sci - as in, political science?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Were you born a jerk or just raised wrong?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We met with a family member who is a professor at a university (~T100 range) over the Thanksgiving break. We also got to meet with a few other professors who were friends of the family member.

We are quite shocked by what we heard about some of the changes taking place over the last couple of years. This is especially evident in specific majors and the combination of AI use by students, administrative overhead on professors, composition of student body and recent cuts have dramatically impacted these majors. It is just such a sad situation. Professors who were totally checked out - some schedule classes on two back to back days so they are pretty free 5 days a week, giving up on tests, professors project questions on a screen and students select answers on their phones, etc. What got us even more concerned is that the professors were positive that a significant portion of these students in these majors would not be employed and they seem powerless to help. They have already given up.

We dropped several schools from consideration based on the data we were able to gather. This is not across the board, many of these schools have majors where this is not an issue.

Do your due diligence.

What "data" are you referring to? You talked to a handful of people. What, exactly, is your concern? You didn't collect any "data."

Faculty have always had teaching loads that only involved teaching on a couple of days. That's not new.

AI is newish. But it's not going to replace jobs. People who can work with AI are going to replace jobs. If you're concerned about AI, college and university education will be even MORE important in the future than it is now because employers are going to be placing premiums on critical thinking. The best majors are going to be liberal arts, not STEM.

Tests are moving back to blue book.

I also don't understand what you mean by "we dropped several schools from consideration." What is this "we" shit. Are you the applicant? Or are you some parent who is overly invested?

I have a recent college graduate fully employed in Manhattan and progressing steadily in her career. I have another who is a junior and working hard and thriving. None of what you describe aligns with their experiences.

So, what, exactly, are you prattling on about? I can't even tell from your post what your concerns are.

You should have been spanked more as a child.

I’ll come over and smack you around right now, you rude, insolent twat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is like anti vaxxers who "do their own research" but can never list data or a source.

+1 lol yes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Some might find this info helpful, but if not just ignore.

I did quite a bit of due diligence on things that I valued as kids were getting close to college.

1. College outcomes. How did the students fare for that particular major in that particular college. What sort of support was provided by college? Did the students get them through alumni, campus visits, etc.

2. Rigor in core classes: compared course rigor and especially the scoring. You can learn a lot by comparing how a similar course is graded at different universities. It tells you what level the college is expecting the students to be at and what base level knowledge they are assuming.

3. Class sizes and ease of getting the courses especially major related. Ability to take advanced courses.

Even after I gathered this information I was surprised by some of the information that was shared by the professors. When a professor in a college says avoid this particular major in this college and gives the reasons, I am just going to avoid them.

To give an example: Test optional had an impact but they are not 100% sure if that is because of test optional or due to Covid era loss, but now it is impacting how courses are taught and the problems it is creating at that university. They point out that their colleagues at university x & y are seeing it as well, but z seems to be not having that problem.

This is over the top controlling and/or trying to control outcomes.

And then you come back and post that my child is not able to find a job, please help.

Pick colleges based on vibe and ignore the important things. It is because of people like you we have "Americans no longer see 4-year college degrees as worth the cost". LOL

My kids will figure it out just like I did. They don't need me snowplowing their college or majors based on some misguided sense of trying to outsmart the system. Sometimes life is uncertain. That is where it is lived.

LOL

In no other arena do people spend $200k to $400k and 4 years of their life without researching what the experience entails - what you learn, what the median expectation is in terms of outcomes, etc. People spend more time researching gadgets worth a few hundred dollars.

Children need to know what jobs can be reasonably expected coming out with a specific major, what work looks like in that kinds of jobs, etc. You are not picking these choices, but educating kids on the options, so they can make informed choices.

But it looks like most people spend an inordinate time on vibe, suburban/rural/city, size and other such factors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Professors are generally arrogant blow hards with unearned superiority complexes.

This is absolutely true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Professors are generally arrogant blow hards with unearned superiority complexes.

Yep. Absolutely. That's why I'm up grading right now.

It does, however, make me wonder why you all seem to want so badly to send your children to study with people like me. If we're so useless and awful, why waste money on us? Surely you could find other ways to purchase a decent life for your kid. And my life would certainly be easier if the only students in my classroom were the ones who actually wanted to be there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only believing this if you list the unis and colleges ...

+1

My kids are working hard writing papers, taking exams/quizzes, doing labs, etc. My DD is a poly sci major and writes ALL THE TIME. My DS is a biochem major and is ALWAYS STUDYING.

What's Poly Sci?
Or did you misspell Poli Sci - as in, political science?

We spelled it “poly sci” in the 1980s.

+1

Northeast T20

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Professors are generally arrogant blow hards with unearned superiority complexes.

Yep. Absolutely. That's why I'm up grading right now.

It does, however, make me wonder why you all seem to want so badly to send your children to study with people like me. If we're so useless and awful, why waste money on us? Surely you could find other ways to purchase a decent life for your kid. And my life would certainly be easier if the only students in my classroom were the ones who actually wanted to be there.

This comment was an exemplary example of what PP is talking about. Academia is the credentialing agency within American Society; whether or not we like it, academia is a guiding avenue for accessing middle class opportunities. Nonetheless, it allows a structure of abusive faculty members with massive egos to bulldoze over their graduate advisees and incentives those same faculty to spend as little time on teaching as possible. Add that with the relentless demands placed on exploited labor, namely postdocs and adjunct faculty, who migrate between colleges to survive. Anyone who defends this system should be seen as a bad actor to the average person. It's deeply corrupt and proves that just because you have a bunch of smart people working with one another, doesn't mean they'll make smart decisions.