What exactly is a “grind school” (undergraduate)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:To me it means a school where there is no work life balance. Kids are overworked and living with a lot of anxiety; they are not learning for the sake of knowledge, discovery and innovation, but to get good grades and stay afloat.

I always wonder if these kids graduate to become leaders and bosses, or if they simply transition to become work horses in the work place.

Basically the college version of TJ, Stuyvesant, etc.

TJ and Stuy produced way more successful “leaders and bosses” than any TT private schools.

Not sure if this is true proportionately. Sure TJ Stuy could have more in absolutely number bc the class size is literally 10x that of a private HS.

Also am noticing the kids who went from Stuy to LACs and HYP are more likely to become leaders. The Stuy kids who went to CMU or even MIT work for those leaders

Exactly. If you want your kid to be a CEO/Bulge Bracket MD/PE Partner/Big Law Partner (which is the definition of "making it" for many of us), they are much more likely to get there from a good private than TJ or Stuy. I'm guessing half the kids and families at TJ and Stuy have no idea what these things even are. But as you noted, given the huge size of these schools, there definitely will be plenty of kids who do accomplish this. But most of them are the kids of white collar professionals.

I'm an ex-parent at one of those schools and can confirm majority pf parents have no idea what these jobs are and don't personally know anyone in these professions. To them, "making it" stills means the traditional doctors, lawyers, engineers. They know about Silicon Valley so they want their kids in Comp Sci, but just so they can become coders and programmers, not the next Sam Altman, Evan Speigel or Mark Zuckerberg who coincidentally all went to private schools

Hi, Sam's mom.

Isn't Sam's mom in jail?

You are assuming they don’t have internet access in jail.

[Anonymous]

I think the "grind school" description is very dependent on major. Cornell, Carnegie Mellon, and Berkeley are often described as grind schools. But there's a big difference in student experience depending on major. The English students are having a very different experience than the Engineering students at these schools.

I think the real question is where does studying engineering suck the most? And CMU, Cornell, and Berkeley will rank very high there. But it's a completely different experience for other students with different majors.

[Anonymous]

Cornell, CMU, Berkley and MIT are all grind schools.

MIT is known as "TJ 2.0 The College Years".

[Anonymous]

Anywhere my kid wasn't admitted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cornell, CMU, Berkley and MIT are all grind schools.

MIT is known as "TJ 2.0 The College Years".

+1

Add JHU to that list.

[Anonymous]

I’m wondering whether all that grinding actually leads to meaningful results. If the next generation still ends up inferior to AI in thinking ability, creativity, and problem-solving speed, then they may remain unemployable regardless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Little side note...pay attention to the classes that the "grind" majors have to take and when they usually take them and then have your kid avoid those classes / semesters if a class is also a pre-req for your kid.

Example...if JHU is a "grind school" for pre-med, then if you are an Econ majors or something, avoid taking statistics when most of the pre-meds take statistics.

The pre-meds will create crazy high curves and the other majors may end up getting worse grades then if they took their Stat requirement in an off semester without all the pre-meds.

What exactly is an "off semester"? Summer? Premeds don't have "off semester".

A semester when fewer "on track" premeds are taking those "classes, often the spring semester since a lot of premeditated would prioritize taking prerequisites in sequence in the fall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me it means a school where there is no work life balance. Kids are overworked and living with a lot of anxiety; they are not learning for the sake of knowledge, discovery and innovation, but to get good grades and stay afloat.

I always wonder if these kids graduate to become leaders and bosses, or if they simply transition to become work horses in the work place.

Basically the college version of TJ, Stuyvesant, etc.

TJ and Stuy produced way more successful “leaders and bosses” than any TT private schools.

Not sure if this is true proportionately. Sure TJ Stuy could have more in absolutely number bc the class size is literally 10x that of a private HS.

Also am noticing the kids who went from Stuy to LACs and HYP are more likely to become leaders. The Stuy kids who went to CMU or even MIT work for those leaders

Exactly. If you want your kid to be a CEO/Bulge Bracket MD/PE Partner/Big Law Partner (which is the definition of "making it" for many of us), they are much more likely to get there from a good private than TJ or Stuy. I'm guessing half the kids and families at TJ and Stuy have no idea what these things even are. But as you noted, given the huge size of these schools, there definitely will be plenty of kids who do accomplish this. But most of them are the kids of white collar professionals.

None of this is true other than likely the kids family doesn’t know about it. When they get to college, there’s no difference, because many students are trying to get into these top firms. The information eventually reaches these students and they’re much better grinders than private school kids.

More often than not, TJ/Stuy kids end up in the front office, private kids in the back office but their parents can still claim they are on their way to "PE Partner".

Law is essentially a grind contest, LSAT, GPA, billable hours, clients you bring in. Not for the faint of heart.

Actually the opposite is school. Front office rewards soft skills which TJ/Stuy kids tend to lack (again, there are plenty of exceptions to the rule on both sides before you get your panties in a bunch). Except I wouldn't say that TJ/Stuy end up in back office. They just don't end up in the elite front office. Not sure what you do but most of the people I know in these types of elite roles come from money so know how to act the part.

I'm guessing you are a TJ/Stuy parent who has never worked in the elite world or interacted with these people and seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about it. Rather than broadcasting your ignorance, just stay quiet and learn. You are really proving my point.

You can just be honest and say that students at TJ are poorer than you like. They aren’t lacking any social skills, but you definitely don’t like talking to “poor” people.

You're accusing me of stereotyping when you are doing a really bad job of it yourself. But you be you.

What part of "there are plenty of exceptions" did you miss? Those students who go to these schools and make an effort to assimilate and step outside their prior comfort zones do great. Unfortunately, many don't. And they still do really well and improve their social standing. But they aren't running the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cornell, CMU, Berkley and MIT are all grind schools.

MIT is known as "TJ 2.0 The College Years".

+1

Add JHU to that list.

JHU is not a grind anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m wondering whether all that grinding actually leads to meaningful results. If the next generation still ends up inferior to AI in thinking ability, creativity, and problem-solving speed, then they may remain unemployable regardless.

AI just averages the work of their grandparents, parents, and older siblings. I'm sure other humans will be able to help the little humans keep up with the bots.

Otherwise I'd have to believe that Elon and Jeff are right about everything and humanity's best hope is a giant phallic rocketship to a currently uninhabitable planet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me it means a school where there is no work life balance. Kids are overworked and living with a lot of anxiety; they are not learning for the sake of knowledge, discovery and innovation, but to get good grades and stay afloat.

I always wonder if these kids graduate to become leaders and bosses, or if they simply transition to become work horses in the work place.

Basically the college version of TJ, Stuyvesant, etc.

TJ and Stuy produced way more successful “leaders and bosses” than any TT private schools.

Not sure if this is true proportionately. Sure TJ Stuy could have more in absolutely number bc the class size is literally 10x that of a private HS.

Also am noticing the kids who went from Stuy to LACs and HYP are more likely to become leaders. The Stuy kids who went to CMU or even MIT work for those leaders

Exactly. If you want your kid to be a CEO/Bulge Bracket MD/PE Partner/Big Law Partner (which is the definition of "making it" for many of us), they are much more likely to get there from a good private than TJ or Stuy. I'm guessing half the kids and families at TJ and Stuy have no idea what these things even are. But as you noted, given the huge size of these schools, there definitely will be plenty of kids who do accomplish this. But most of them are the kids of white collar professionals.

None of this is true other than likely the kids family doesn’t know about it. When they get to college, there’s no difference, because many students are trying to get into these top firms. The information eventually reaches these students and they’re much better grinders than private school kids.

More often than not, TJ/Stuy kids end up in the front office, private kids in the back office but their parents can still claim they are on their way to "PE Partner".

Law is essentially a grind contest, LSAT, GPA, billable hours, clients you bring in. Not for the faint of heart.

Actually the opposite is school. Front office rewards soft skills which TJ/Stuy kids tend to lack (again, there are plenty of exceptions to the rule on both sides before you get your panties in a bunch). Except I wouldn't say that TJ/Stuy end up in back office. They just don't end up in the elite front office. Not sure what you do but most of the people I know in these types of elite roles come from money so know how to act the part.

I'm guessing you are a TJ/Stuy parent who has never worked in the elite world or interacted with these people and seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about it. Rather than broadcasting your ignorance, just stay quiet and learn. You are really proving my point.

You can just be honest and say that students at TJ are poorer than you like. They aren’t lacking any social skills, but you definitely don’t like talking to “poor” people.

You're accusing me of stereotyping when you are doing a really bad job of it yourself. But you be you.

What part of "there are plenty of exceptions" did you miss? Those students who go to these schools and make an effort to assimilate and step outside their prior comfort zones do great. Unfortunately, many don't. And they still do really well and improve their social standing. But they aren't running the world.

Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin, and others are running the world. Some of them were rich and some were poor.

Xi studied "chemical engineering at Tsinghua University as a worker-peasant-soldier student".

Putin's older brother (a baby) starved to death during the siege of Leningrad.

Leave off your bashing of the "poors".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cornell, CMU, Berkley and MIT are all grind schools.

MIT is known as "TJ 2.0 The College Years".

+1

Add JHU to that list.

JHU is not a grind anymore.

Is this true?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me it means a school where there is no work life balance. Kids are overworked and living with a lot of anxiety; they are not learning for the sake of knowledge, discovery and innovation, but to get good grades and stay afloat.

I always wonder if these kids graduate to become leaders and bosses, or if they simply transition to become work horses in the work place.

Basically the college version of TJ, Stuyvesant, etc.

TJ and Stuy produced way more successful “leaders and bosses” than any TT private schools.

Not sure if this is true proportionately. Sure TJ Stuy could have more in absolutely number bc the class size is literally 10x that of a private HS.

Also am noticing the kids who went from Stuy to LACs and HYP are more likely to become leaders. The Stuy kids who went to CMU or even MIT work for those leaders

Exactly. If you want your kid to be a CEO/Bulge Bracket MD/PE Partner/Big Law Partner (which is the definition of "making it" for many of us), they are much more likely to get there from a good private than TJ or Stuy. I'm guessing half the kids and families at TJ and Stuy have no idea what these things even are. But as you noted, given the huge size of these schools, there definitely will be plenty of kids who do accomplish this. But most of them are the kids of white collar professionals.

None of this is true other than likely the kids family doesn’t know about it. When they get to college, there’s no difference, because many students are trying to get into these top firms. The information eventually reaches these students and they’re much better grinders than private school kids.

More often than not, TJ/Stuy kids end up in the front office, private kids in the back office but their parents can still claim they are on their way to "PE Partner".

Law is essentially a grind contest, LSAT, GPA, billable hours, clients you bring in. Not for the faint of heart.

Actually the opposite is school. Front office rewards soft skills which TJ/Stuy kids tend to lack (again, there are plenty of exceptions to the rule on both sides before you get your panties in a bunch). Except I wouldn't say that TJ/Stuy end up in back office. They just don't end up in the elite front office. Not sure what you do but most of the people I know in these types of elite roles come from money so know how to act the part.

I'm guessing you are a TJ/Stuy parent who has never worked in the elite world or interacted with these people and seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about it. Rather than broadcasting your ignorance, just stay quiet and learn. You are really proving my point.

You can just be honest and say that students at TJ are poorer than you like. They aren’t lacking any social skills, but you definitely don’t like talking to “poor” people.

You're accusing me of stereotyping when you are doing a really bad job of it yourself. But you be you.

What part of "there are plenty of exceptions" did you miss? Those students who go to these schools and make an effort to assimilate and step outside their prior comfort zones do great. Unfortunately, many don't. And they still do really well and improve their social standing. But they aren't running the world.

Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin, and others are running the world. Some of them were rich and some were poor.

Xi studied "chemical engineering at Tsinghua University as a worker-peasant-soldier student".

Putin's older brother (a baby) starved to death during the siege of Leningrad.

Leave off your bashing of the "poors".

Not bashing the poors. Bashing the ignorant. Big difference. You have a real complex about this. Is your kid home from TJ yet?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me it means a school where there is no work life balance. Kids are overworked and living with a lot of anxiety; they are not learning for the sake of knowledge, discovery and innovation, but to get good grades and stay afloat.

I always wonder if these kids graduate to become leaders and bosses, or if they simply transition to become work horses in the work place.

Basically the college version of TJ, Stuyvesant, etc.

TJ and Stuy produced way more successful “leaders and bosses” than any TT private schools.

Not sure if this is true proportionately. Sure TJ Stuy could have more in absolutely number bc the class size is literally 10x that of a private HS.

Also am noticing the kids who went from Stuy to LACs and HYP are more likely to become leaders. The Stuy kids who went to CMU or even MIT work for those leaders

Exactly. If you want your kid to be a CEO/Bulge Bracket MD/PE Partner/Big Law Partner (which is the definition of "making it" for many of us), they are much more likely to get there from a good private than TJ or Stuy. I'm guessing half the kids and families at TJ and Stuy have no idea what these things even are. But as you noted, given the huge size of these schools, there definitely will be plenty of kids who do accomplish this. But most of them are the kids of white collar professionals.

None of this is true other than likely the kids family doesn’t know about it. When they get to college, there’s no difference, because many students are trying to get into these top firms. The information eventually reaches these students and they’re much better grinders than private school kids.

More often than not, TJ/Stuy kids end up in the front office, private kids in the back office but their parents can still claim they are on their way to "PE Partner".

Law is essentially a grind contest, LSAT, GPA, billable hours, clients you bring in. Not for the faint of heart.

Actually the opposite is school. Front office rewards soft skills which TJ/Stuy kids tend to lack (again, there are plenty of exceptions to the rule on both sides before you get your panties in a bunch). Except I wouldn't say that TJ/Stuy end up in back office. They just don't end up in the elite front office. Not sure what you do but most of the people I know in these types of elite roles come from money so know how to act the part.

I'm guessing you are a TJ/Stuy parent who has never worked in the elite world or interacted with these people and seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about it. Rather than broadcasting your ignorance, just stay quiet and learn. You are really proving my point.

DP

I don't know what this front office/back office bullshit is but I am biglaw and there are plenty of public school kids in the partnership. I'd say the ratio of public school kids in the partnership approximates the ratio of public school kids in ivy. I went to Stuy then ivy/ivy college/law school and there more kids from stuy at top schools than almost every other school. My kid went to TJ and I think he would laugh at your characterization of where the TJ students end up. There is a reason why there is a Jane Street lounge at TJ, the TJ, MIT Jane Street pipeline is a real thing. Same for MBB, bulge bracket, and pretty much everything in tech and finance. Everywhere you go, you will find Stuy and TJ grads.

The average pre-2020 TJ grad will probably has career results that are every bit as good as sidwell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me it means a school where there is no work life balance. Kids are overworked and living with a lot of anxiety; they are not learning for the sake of knowledge, discovery and innovation, but to get good grades and stay afloat.

I always wonder if these kids graduate to become leaders and bosses, or if they simply transition to become work horses in the work place.

Basically the college version of TJ, Stuyvesant, etc.

TJ and Stuy produced way more successful “leaders and bosses” than any TT private schools.

Not sure if this is true proportionately. Sure TJ Stuy could have more in absolutely number bc the class size is literally 10x that of a private HS.

Also am noticing the kids who went from Stuy to LACs and HYP are more likely to become leaders. The Stuy kids who went to CMU or even MIT work for those leaders

Exactly. If you want your kid to be a CEO/Bulge Bracket MD/PE Partner/Big Law Partner (which is the definition of "making it" for many of us), they are much more likely to get there from a good private than TJ or Stuy. I'm guessing half the kids and families at TJ and Stuy have no idea what these things even are. But as you noted, given the huge size of these schools, there definitely will be plenty of kids who do accomplish this. But most of them are the kids of white collar professionals.

None of this is true other than likely the kids family doesn’t know about it. When they get to college, there’s no difference, because many students are trying to get into these top firms. The information eventually reaches these students and they’re much better grinders than private school kids.

More often than not, TJ/Stuy kids end up in the front office, private kids in the back office but their parents can still claim they are on their way to "PE Partner".

Law is essentially a grind contest, LSAT, GPA, billable hours, clients you bring in. Not for the faint of heart.

Actually the opposite is school. Front office rewards soft skills which TJ/Stuy kids tend to lack (again, there are plenty of exceptions to the rule on both sides before you get your panties in a bunch). Except I wouldn't say that TJ/Stuy end up in back office. They just don't end up in the elite front office. Not sure what you do but most of the people I know in these types of elite roles come from money so know how to act the part.

I'm guessing you are a TJ/Stuy parent who has never worked in the elite world or interacted with these people and seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about it. Rather than broadcasting your ignorance, just stay quiet and learn. You are really proving my point.

You can just be honest and say that students at TJ are poorer than you like. They aren’t lacking any social skills, but you definitely don’t like talking to “poor” people.

You're accusing me of stereotyping when you are doing a really bad job of it yourself. But you be you.

What part of "there are plenty of exceptions" did you miss? Those students who go to these schools and make an effort to assimilate and step outside their prior comfort zones do great. Unfortunately, many don't. And they still do really well and improve their social standing. But they aren't running the world.

Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin, and others are running the world. Some of them were rich and some were poor.

Xi studied "chemical engineering at Tsinghua University as a worker-peasant-soldier student".

Putin's older brother (a baby) starved to death during the siege of Leningrad.

Leave off your bashing of the "poors".

Not bashing the poors. Bashing the ignorant. Big difference. You have a real complex about this. Is your kid home from TJ yet?

I should have posted NP. I do not have an NYC kid.