What exactly is a “grind school” (undergraduate)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Hopkins is notorious for being miserable. Sorry you had a sad, joyless four years of college. Denial ain’t just a river.

And yes I loved my time there. Glad miserable clowns like you were avoided.

Sounds like Bloomberg had a good experience there. Actually, every single Hopkins alum I have met has had a wonderful, life-changing experience at Hopkins.

Does alum include everyone I know who transferred out so they could actually have fun?

Considering their graduation rate is 95% like other top schools, keep making up uninformed garbage.

[Anonymous]

The DMV bias here is nuts. The rest of the country sees Hopkins as an Ivy safety. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But people here put it on an elevated pedestal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The DMV bias here is nuts. The rest of the country sees Hopkins as an Ivy safety. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But people here put it on an elevated pedestal.

Sorry, went to Stanford here and noone in the bay area thinks of Hopkins as an ivy safety. Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?

[Anonymous]

There are clearly some very bitter people with a bizarre Hopkins axe to grind here and it is sad to see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hopkins is notorious for being miserable. Sorry you had a sad, joyless four years of college. Denial ain’t just a river.

It's a good thing kids don't take advice from the overaged millenials and boomers on here. Really sad and pathetic.

This is a Gen-X dominated site. You forgot about us again. We are currently spending $100s of thousands on this product category.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hopkins is notorious for being miserable. Sorry you had a sad, joyless four years of college. Denial ain’t just a river.

It's a good thing kids don't take advice from the overaged millenials and boomers on here. Really sad and pathetic.

This is a Gen-X dominated site. You forgot about us again. We are currently spending $100s of thousands on this product category.

Doesn't matter what generation as long as you are well informed. Which many on here aren't

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me it means a school where there is no work life balance. Kids are overworked and living with a lot of anxiety; they are not learning for the sake of knowledge, discovery and innovation, but to get good grades and stay afloat.

I always wonder if these kids graduate to become leaders and bosses, or if they simply transition to become work horses in the work place.

This is what I have in mind when I refer to a "grind school".

Obviously, all schools have a mix of kids. No school is all one thing or another.

And yes, the percentage of grindy kids often differs by major within the same school.

That said, I do feel some schools with really smart, hardworking kids don't feel like as much of a grind overall.

Two factors that I've noticed about the less grindy schools:

(1) They seem to attract and/or select enough kids who proactively balance their academics with some social ECs (not just additional resume-building clubs and activities); and

(2) They offer kids big, communal experiences outside the classroom that add dimension and balance to their lives. This could be anything from sports to social clubs (could be Greek life but not necessarily) to regular campus events or festivals or concerts that regularly attract a ton of students, to an off-campus setting that affects the school culture and inspires kids to balance their academics with something else (a vibrant city, an accessible and interesting college town, gorgeous and accessible nature/outdoor activities.)

Which colleges do the best job at what PP is describing?

I’m the PP and I was thinking about Dartmouth and Vanderbilt when I wrote that.

Dartmouth - I just had lunch with a friend whose son is a senior there. Brilliant, serious, and substantive kid. He’s done really well academically AND truly enjoyed his time there because of the mix of well-attended campus events and activities, including frats and the outdoors club.

Vanderbilt - We visited earlier this year and were struck by their repeated emphasis on balance. It felt like a lively, fun, and sporty campus with restaurants (many that take points) just off campus plus a city full of music and professional sports just a 15 minute Uber away.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:CMU
JHU
Cornell
Chicago

Basically schools with a higher concentration of students who have been doing Kumon or other forms of tutoring and prepping since 3rd grade

With the Bloomberg money, JHU is no longer a grind school. Kids are highly collaborative and social. A vibrant community, a beautiful campus, modern buildings and labs.

Cash has no impact on applicants’ lifelong ethos

hopkins being cited as a grind school is hilarious when the average GPA is now an overinflated 3.8. Hasn't been cut throat for a long long time now.

Hopkins has always been a miserable place to go to school. Intense pre-meds with a chip on their shoulder because they couldn't get into Ivies. With some lax players mixed in for giggles.

sorry for your rejection 20 years ago.

I agree Hopkins seems like an awful place to spend 4 years.

Wonderful to see posters steering away competition during college applying season

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cornell, CMU, Berkley and MIT are all grind schools.

MIT is known as "TJ 2.0 The College Years".

+1

Add JHU to that list.

JHU is not a grind anymore.

Is this true?

JHU ha a median graduating GPA of 3.75. Higher than UVA(3.68) and W%M(3.65) and yet lower than the most inflated Brown and Harvard(medians 3.9)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cornell, CMU, Berkley and MIT are all grind schools.

MIT is known as "TJ 2.0 The College Years".

My Grind Schools (These also happen to be the Top 5 Engineering Schools according to USNWR and I consider Engineering to be a major grind. Add these schools at the top in the country for Engineering...this is my grind list)
.
#1Massachusetts Institute of Technology
#2 Stanford
#3 Georgia tech
#3 Cal Berkely
#4 Cal Tech

we know many TJ and other top DMV school kids who had a 4.0 at GT Engineering and said it was easy. Not grindy at all compared to the deflated ivies(Prineton, Penn, Cornell) where 3.9+ puts you in the top 8% for Engineering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cornell, CMU, Berkley and MIT are all grind schools.

MIT is known as "TJ 2.0 The College Years".

+1

Add JHU to that list.

JHU is not a grind anymore.

Is this true?

JHU ha a median graduating GPA of 3.75. Higher than UVA(3.68) and W%M(3.65) and yet lower than the most inflated Brown and Harvard(medians 3.9)

Though 3.75 is low compared to ivies other than Princeton and Cornell? Yale and Penn are higher than that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me it means a school where there is no work life balance. Kids are overworked and living with a lot of anxiety; they are not learning for the sake of knowledge, discovery and innovation, but to get good grades and stay afloat.

I always wonder if these kids graduate to become leaders and bosses, or if they simply transition to become work horses in the work place.

This is what I have in mind when I refer to a "grind school".

Obviously, all schools have a mix of kids. No school is all one thing or another.

And yes, the percentage of grindy kids often differs by major within the same school.

That said, I do feel some schools with really smart, hardworking kids don't feel like as much of a grind overall.

Two factors that I've noticed about the less grindy schools:

(1) They seem to attract and/or select enough kids who proactively balance their academics with some social ECs (not just additional resume-building clubs and activities); and

(2) They offer kids big, communal experiences outside the classroom that add dimension and balance to their lives. This could be anything from sports to social clubs (could be Greek life but not necessarily) to regular campus events or festivals or concerts that regularly attract a ton of students, to an off-campus setting that affects the school culture and inspires kids to balance their academics with something else (a vibrant city, an accessible and interesting college town, gorgeous and accessible nature/outdoor activities.)

Which colleges do the best job at what PP is describing?

Bama et al

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cornell, CMU, Berkley and MIT are all grind schools.

MIT is known as "TJ 2.0 The College Years".

+1

Add JHU to that list.

JHU is not a grind anymore.

Is this true?

JHU ha a median graduating GPA of 3.75. Higher than UVA(3.68) and W%M(3.65) and yet lower than the most inflated Brown and Harvard(medians 3.9)

Though 3.75 is low compared to ivies other than Princeton and Cornell? Yale and Penn are higher than that.

3.75 is ridiculously inflated

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me it means a school where there is no work life balance. Kids are overworked and living with a lot of anxiety; they are not learning for the sake of knowledge, discovery and innovation, but to get good grades and stay afloat.

I always wonder if these kids graduate to become leaders and bosses, or if they simply transition to become work horses in the work place.

Basically the college version of TJ, Stuyvesant, etc.

TJ and Stuy produced way more successful “leaders and bosses” than any TT private schools.

Not sure if this is true proportionately. Sure TJ Stuy could have more in absolutely number bc the class size is literally 10x that of a private HS.

Also am noticing the kids who went from Stuy to LACs and HYP are more likely to become leaders. The Stuy kids who went to CMU or even MIT work for those leaders

Exactly. If you want your kid to be a CEO/Bulge Bracket MD/PE Partner/Big Law Partner (which is the definition of "making it" for many of us), they are much more likely to get there from a good private than TJ or Stuy. I'm guessing half the kids and families at TJ and Stuy have no idea what these things even are. But as you noted, given the huge size of these schools, there definitely will be plenty of kids who do accomplish this. But most of them are the kids of white collar professionals.

None of this is true other than likely the kids family doesn’t know about it. When they get to college, there’s no difference, because many students are trying to get into these top firms. The information eventually reaches these students and they’re much better grinders than private school kids.

More often than not, TJ/Stuy kids end up in the front office, private kids in the back office but their parents can still claim they are on their way to "PE Partner".

Law is essentially a grind contest, LSAT, GPA, billable hours, clients you bring in. Not for the faint of heart.

Actually the opposite is school. Front office rewards soft skills which TJ/Stuy kids tend to lack (again, there are plenty of exceptions to the rule on both sides before you get your panties in a bunch). Except I wouldn't say that TJ/Stuy end up in back office. They just don't end up in the elite front office. Not sure what you do but most of the people I know in these types of elite roles come from money so know how to act the part.

I'm guessing you are a TJ/Stuy parent who has never worked in the elite world or interacted with these people and seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about it. Rather than broadcasting your ignorance, just stay quiet and learn. You are really proving my point.

DP

I don't know what this front office/back office bullshit is but I am biglaw and there are plenty of public school kids in the partnership. I'd say the ratio of public school kids in the partnership approximates the ratio of public school kids in ivy. I went to Stuy then ivy/ivy college/law school and there more kids from stuy at top schools than almost every other school. My kid went to TJ and I think he would laugh at your characterization of where the TJ students end up. There is a reason why there is a Jane Street lounge at TJ, the TJ, MIT Jane Street pipeline is a real thing. Same for MBB, bulge bracket, and pretty much everything in tech and finance. Everywhere you go, you will find Stuy and TJ grads.

The average pre-2020 TJ grad will probably has career results that are every bit as good as sidwell.

That's it? With how much you talked it up I thought you were going to say it beats Philips

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cornell, CMU, Berkley and MIT are all grind schools.

MIT is known as "TJ 2.0 The College Years".

+1

Add JHU to that list.

JHU is not a grind anymore.

Is this true?

JHU ha a median graduating GPA of 3.75. Higher than UVA(3.68) and W%M(3.65) and yet lower than the most inflated Brown and Harvard(medians 3.9)

Though 3.75 is low compared to ivies other than Princeton and Cornell? Yale and Penn are higher than that.

3.75 is ridiculously inflated

https://www.ivycoach.com/the-ivy-coach-blog/ivy-league/ivy-league-grade-inflation/

Would be higher than dartmouth, princeton, cornell, yale even. JHU used to be known for grade deflation but academic grading has gotten lax. Maybe too lax.