Social and smart T20s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:once you have moms asking about this stuff, you've really lost the plot

I agree! There is also a post on finding a spouse in college. Do people actually believe their kid can't find fun?

A couple of people posted that there are no dates, no going out nothing in their freshman/soph classes (some others chimed in, so about 3 different posters with more than one kid in different colleges)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Duke
Northwestern
Cornell
Michigan
Notre Dame
Vanderbilt
USC

What’s missing?

Very few Duke kids go out 2-3x a week, not counting the first week or so of fall semester. 1 is typical, maybe 2. Vast majority are not greek. Duke is more social than some but not all of the ivies, but just like Ivy/chicago/stanford it is filled with super high achievers who do research, run clubs, have internships during the semester on campus or close. The do-it-all mentality and obsession with grades is much different than Duke in the early 90s(93 grad w a 24 grad kid).
The nephew at northwestern and it is per him more academic/intellectually focused on studies than Duke. To us as parents/grown siblings the students sound similar at NW and Duke

Also a Duke 90s grad.

My friends and I all did interesting things outside the classroom, including Greek life, but we each had an interest or activity or two, not the "do it all" / resume-building approach of high-achievers of this generation. Yes, the academics were difficult at times, but there was a real sense of balance between working hard, going out, and watching all the games during basketball season.

What schools are currently like Duke in the 90s? Vandy? Wake?

What schools would you say have the mindset and culture that Duke did when we were

I think some of that Duke mindset and culture exists, but its getting lost a bit. Will see if they course correct this cycle (don't they have new leadership)?

I'd say Vanderbilt and Wake for sure. Maybe UVA? No school has it all, though.

Each of the schools listed earlier has some element of that Duke of 1990s vibe. The question becomes how much and how hard is it for a kid to find their people. It changes each year based on the institutional priorities of a school. When schools over-rotate on one IP, they have to choose fewer of a certain type of kid.

Social, gregarious, interesting kids who are not interested in grinding or overachieving weren't really sought after in the last few cycles. Our CCO says that is changing with everyone seeing Vanderbilt's success (that is EXACTLY the kind of kid Vanderbilt goes after and full pay to boot) - and especially given protest and funding dynamics, they seem to want a different demographic now.

With funding pressures, expect more schools like the ones below to try and emulate some of that Vandy success:

Penn,
Northwestern,
Dartmouth (though the current freshman class is a little strange),
Cornell (easier to do given so large, but different AO making decisions, so possibly harder for cohesion),
Notre Dame (they also have looked for this kind of kid)
UVA (think DeanJ has talked about personal qualities like sociability and collaboration)
Georgetown
USC

Penn and Northwestern are surprising based on the kids we saw during our visit. Would love to hear more! What about Brown?

Ugh Brown. Not at all.
Do an overnight with people you know. It’s the best way to feel a campus. Tours aren’t helpful imo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:once you have moms asking about this stuff, you've really lost the plot

I agree! There is also a post on finding a spouse in college. Do people actually believe their kid can't find fun?

A couple of people posted that there are no dates, no going out nothing in their freshman/soph classes (some others chimed in, so about 3 different posters with more than one kid in different colleges)

Greek life sucks for so many things but dating (formals, date parties) is not one.

[Anonymous]

I'm surprised MIT hasn't been mentioned yet.

My kid has a very active social life there (greek membership, dorm bar-b-ques, always some creative thing happening in East Campus dorms, etc.).

They also go to sporting events to support friends on teams, but reports those are sparsely attended-- so it isn't the typical American college "rah-rah" experience. Perhaps that knocks it out of contention?

Even so, the Greek social scene at MIT is a lot stronger than I expected, so it seems worth mentioning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:once you have moms asking about this stuff, you've really lost the plot

I agree! There is also a post on finding a spouse in college. Do people actually believe their kid can't find fun?

A couple of people posted that there are no dates, no going out nothing in their freshman/soph classes (some others chimed in, so about 3 different posters with more than one kid in different colleges)

Greek life sucks for so many things but dating (formals, date parties) is not one.

Not so sure about that. It seems stifling from what I've seen. Certain sororities are limited to dating certain fraternities. Maybe that's only at some colleges but it seems very limiting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What’s the current list of fun, social, selective and smart T20s/30s?

Greek life good
Going out 2-3x/week good
At least 20-25% of class is socially oriented, outgoing, friendly
And with bars, darties, or sports etc.

So all you care about OP, is partying, not academics? And you want to pay $90K+ for that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm surprised MIT hasn't been mentioned yet.

My kid has a very active social life there (greek membership, dorm bar-b-ques, always some creative thing happening in East Campus dorms, etc.).

They also go to sporting events to support friends on teams, but reports those are sparsely attended-- so it isn't the typical American college "rah-rah" experience. Perhaps that knocks it out of contention?

Even so, the Greek social scene at MIT is a lot stronger than I expected, so it seems worth mentioning.

The vast majority of students have zero chance of getting into MIT - so it's not even talked about in an aspirational way. But I agree. I went to a nearby school. And MIT social life is much, much better than assumed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Gee. Call me crazy, but we looked at academics and best programs in kid’s intended major first.

As parents, we tried to select out drunk Greek fests…and we are big partiers ourselves. You can find your people anywhere. But- I’m not paying for a party…

+1,000,000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gee. Call me crazy, but we looked at academics and best programs in kid’s intended major first.

As parents, we tried to select out drunk Greek fests…and we are big partiers ourselves. You can find your people anywhere. But- I’m not paying for a party…

+1,000,000

Ha. So true. I went to a “geek (not Greek)” high academic school and was part of the smaller cohort of fun people-/parties, bars, etc and great networking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Duke, ND, and Vandy have nothing in common with Cornell. Would add Dartmouth on a much more isolated scale. For LACs add in Colgate, Holy Cross, and Richmond. No Greek life at ND and HC.

Agree! Cornell does not belong on this list. It's the consummate grinder school.

Huh? Socially it’s pretty similar to Dartmouth. The bar scene isn’t what it used to be, but there are still plenty of Greek events.

Agree. I have a kid at Cornell (in Greek life). But a large part of Cornell is not Greek.
If you aren't in Greek life, I'd imagine you think it's a grinder school.

DC is a freshman at Cornell and has a co-ed group of smart, social, athletic friends. They eat, study and hang out together regularly. None of them are currently involved in Greek life. They are diverse in terms of their home states, majors, schools within the university, and interests. Like everywhere else, Cornell has a mix of kids who are introverted and/or struggle socially as well as outgoing, socially adept kids. Everyone grinds, but most kids figure out how to balance studying and their other interests. I think wherever you go, you can find your people if you put in the effort to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Penn is the party Ivy

But if you aren't in the frat or female you aren't welcome to the party.

Wrong ! There are a million social scenes at Penn outside of Greek life, and it takes a huge amount of effort to be isolated and / or bored.

[Anonymous]

My kid at penn probably goes out 3x+ per week. Busy with group dinners/coffee meetups, parties, performing arts rehearsals and get-togethers, clubs events, concerts, prof sporting events, etc. Very social place. Academics are very intense and require a lot of work. I think the work hard/play hard descriptor is accurate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid at penn probably goes out 3x+ per week. Busy with group dinners/coffee meetups, parties, performing arts rehearsals and get-togethers, clubs events, concerts, prof sporting events, etc. Very social place. Academics are very intense and require a lot of work. I think the work hard/play hard descriptor is accurate.

Agree. This sounds similar to a lot of the schools mentioned (Northwestern, Duke, Cornell, Dartmouth).
USC/UVA/Michigan seem less intense work-wise.

[Anonymous]

Hopefully new admissions director rights the ship at Duke. Lots of unhappy alums.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gee. Call me crazy, but we looked at academics and best programs in kid’s intended major first.

As parents, we tried to select out drunk Greek fests…and we are big partiers ourselves. You can find your people anywhere. But- I’m not paying for a party…

Seriously, this board has a strain of very low brow women that view college as a means to party and find a husband or want their sons to be a finance bro that gets by purely on Greek connections.

DP here. Statistically, you will never again in your life (apart from grad school if you go) have access to such a concentrated group of similarly aged, similarly academically-suited peers. Not saying you need to get married out of college, but making a ton of strong social connections while you are there, and/or potentially meeting someone who could one day be your spouse or introduce you to them, is not an insane thing to think about.