SWAMP or WAS-B?

[Anonymous]

Here's Swarthmore's self-designated peer group:
Amherst College (Amherst, MA)
Bowdoin College (Brunswick, ME)
Carleton College (Northfield, MN)
Davidson College (Davidson, NC)
Haverford College (Haverford, PA)
Middlebury College (Middlebury, VT)
Oberlin College (Oberlin, OH)
Pomona College (Claremont, CA)
Trinity College (Hartford, CT)
Wesleyan University (Middletown, CT)
Williams College (Williamstown, MA)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:much in the same way the williams and amherst boosters luv to compare their schools against HYP in a failed effort to make them seem like pseudo peers, the Bowdoin Pomona and Middlebury boosters luv to punch up and ridiculously compare themselves to A & W. It’s the DCUM striver culture at its best (or worst), always wanting to make their situation seem better..

These are both weird comparisons. No William person is comparing themselves to Princeton, because they're different schools, and it isn't unreasonable to compare top lacs to Williams and Amherst, because they're all objectively peers of one another:
Williams College list of peers |

Amherst College (Amherst, MA)
Bowdoin College (Brunswick, ME)
Carleton College (Northfield, MN)
Dartmouth College (Hanover, NH)
Grinnell College (Grinnell, IA)
Haverford College (Haverford, PA)
Middlebury College (Middlebury, VT)
Pomona College (Claremont, CA)
Swarthmore College (Swarthmore, PA)
Wesleyan University (Middletown, CT)

Source: https://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/dfr/2023/ReportHTML.aspx?unitId=168342

Amherst College list of Peers |

Bates College (Lewiston, ME)
Bowdoin College (Brunswick, ME)
Bryn Mawr College (Bryn Mawr, PA)
Carleton College (Northfield, MN)
Claflin University (Orangeburg, SC)
Concordia College at Moorhead (Moorhead, MN)
Connecticut College (New London, CT)
Davidson College (Davidson, NC)
Dickinson College (Carlisle, PA)
Drew University (Madison, NJ)
Eckerd College (Saint Petersburg, FL)
Emmanuel College (Boston, MA)
Franklin and Marshall College (Lancaster, PA)
Gustavus Adolphus College (Saint Peter, MN)
Hamilton College (Clinton, NY)
Kenyon College (Gambier, OH)
Luther College (Decorah, IA)
Occidental College (Los Angeles, CA)
Pomona College (Claremont, CA)
Rhodes College (Memphis, TN)
Roanoke College (Salem, VA)
Saint Anselm College (Manchester, NH)
Saint Norbert College (De Pere, WI)
St Lawrence University (Canton, NY)
The College of Wooster (Wooster, OH)
The University of the South (Sewanee, TN)
Trinity College (Hartford, CT)
Union College (Schenectady, NY)
University of Puget Sound (Tacoma, WA)
Washington and Lee University (Lexington, VA)
Williams College (Williamstown, MA)
Wofford College (Spartanburg, SC)

Source: https://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/dfr/2023/ReportHTML.aspx?unitId=164465

Pomona College list of peers|

Amherst College (Amherst, MA)
Carleton College (Northfield, MN)
Oberlin College (Oberlin, OH)
Swarthmore College (Swarthmore, PA)
Trinity College (Hartford, CT)
Wesleyan University (Middletown, CT)
Williams College (Williamstown, MA)

Source: https://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/dfr/2023/ReportHTML.aspx?unitId=121345

These are all according to the schools themselves

It's worth noting that Amherst did not select those peers. IPEDS selected those colleges because Amherst didn't respond to the question.

Bowdoin selected these peers:
Amherst College (Amherst, MA)
Bates College (Lewiston, ME)
Brown University (Providence, RI)
Carleton College (Northfield, MN)
Claremont McKenna College (Claremont, CA)
Colby College (Waterville, ME)
Colgate University (Hamilton, NY)
Dartmouth College (Hanover, NH)
Davidson College (Davidson, NC)
Grinnell College (Grinnell, IA)
Hamilton College (Clinton, NY)
Harvey Mudd College (Claremont, CA)
Haverford College (Haverford, PA)
Middlebury College (Middlebury, VT)
Pomona College (Claremont, CA)
Smith College (Northampton, MA)
Swarthmore College (Swarthmore, PA)
Tufts University (Medford, MA)
Vassar College (Poughkeepsie, NY)
Washington and Lee University (Lexington, VA)
Wellesley College (Wellesley, MA)
Wesleyan University (Middletown, CT)
Williams College (Williamstown, MA)

Middlebury selected these peers:
Amherst College (Amherst, MA)
Bates College (Lewiston, ME)
Bowdoin College (Brunswick, ME)
Bryn Mawr College (Bryn Mawr, PA)
Carleton College (Northfield, MN)
Colby College (Waterville, ME)
Connecticut College (New London, CT)
Hamilton College (Clinton, NY)
Haverford College (Haverford, PA)
Mount Holyoke College (South Hadley, MA)
Oberlin College (Oberlin, OH)
Pomona College (Claremont, CA)
Smith College (Northampton, MA)
Swarthmore College (Swarthmore, PA)
Trinity College (Hartford, CT)
Vassar College (Poughkeepsie, NY)
Washington and Lee University (Lexington, VA)
Wellesley College (Wellesley, MA)
Wesleyan University (Middletown, CT)
Williams College (Williamstown, MA)

You can tell who is truly elite and who wants to prestige chase. Williams and Pomona select very few peers, while these other colleges call everyone their peers.

Pomona = Trinity College. Interesting choice.

Williams = Grinnell. There’s probably more overlap than we assume.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: No reason going to a top liberal arts college and paying $90k/year to study art history; you'd frankly have more resources and access to professors at a state school.

Ever heard of the Williams art mafia? If you want to study art history you'd be very well positioned and resourced at Williams. It's the only graduate program offered there. And which state school offers more access to profs than the Williams tutorials?

You have more much access to art history courses, archives, and internship opportunities at any decent state school. You aren’t special getting 1 on 1 with an unknown professor at Williams over a known researcher in the field who likely curates and consults at a state university.

Uh, no. Williams professors are hardly unknown, far from it. Williams art history grads can write their ticket for grad school.

I work in the field. They have 1 or 2 all stars (Laylah ali) but I’m not seeing anyone or any resource that’s particularly outstanding compared to any top state school- where there will be a lot more star faculty just due to a sheer fact of size.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: No reason going to a top liberal arts college and paying $90k/year to study art history; you'd frankly have more resources and access to professors at a state school.

Ever heard of the Williams art mafia? If you want to study art history you'd be very well positioned and resourced at Williams. It's the only graduate program offered there. And which state school offers more access to profs than the Williams tutorials?

You have more much access to art history courses, archives, and internship opportunities at any decent state school. You aren’t special getting 1 on 1 with an unknown professor at Williams over a known researcher in the field who likely curates and consults at a state university.

Uh, no. Williams professors are hardly unknown, far from it. Williams art history grads can write their ticket for grad school.

I work in the field. They have 1 or 2 all stars (Laylah ali) but I’m not seeing anyone or any resource that’s particularly outstanding compared to any top state school- where there will be a lot more star faculty just due to a sheer fact of size.

Williams is a great launch point if you didn’t get into a top phd and want to get some curatorial experience and research before applying for another season of applications. It is not in any way a replacement for a PhD program, which most alum need to go into in order to get jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:much in the same way the williams and amherst boosters luv to compare their schools against HYP in a failed effort to make them seem like pseudo peers, the Bowdoin Pomona and Middlebury boosters luv to punch up and ridiculously compare themselves to A & W. It’s the DCUM striver culture at its best (or worst), always wanting to make their situation seem better..

These are both weird comparisons. No William person is comparing themselves to Princeton, because they're different schools, and it isn't unreasonable to compare top lacs to Williams and Amherst, because they're all objectively peers of one another:
Williams College list of peers |

Amherst College (Amherst, MA)
Bowdoin College (Brunswick, ME)
Carleton College (Northfield, MN)
Dartmouth College (Hanover, NH)
Grinnell College (Grinnell, IA)
Haverford College (Haverford, PA)
Middlebury College (Middlebury, VT)
Pomona College (Claremont, CA)
Swarthmore College (Swarthmore, PA)
Wesleyan University (Middletown, CT)

Source: https://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/dfr/2023/ReportHTML.aspx?unitId=168342

Amherst College list of Peers |

Bates College (Lewiston, ME)
Bowdoin College (Brunswick, ME)
Bryn Mawr College (Bryn Mawr, PA)
Carleton College (Northfield, MN)
Claflin University (Orangeburg, SC)
Concordia College at Moorhead (Moorhead, MN)
Connecticut College (New London, CT)
Davidson College (Davidson, NC)
Dickinson College (Carlisle, PA)
Drew University (Madison, NJ)
Eckerd College (Saint Petersburg, FL)
Emmanuel College (Boston, MA)
Franklin and Marshall College (Lancaster, PA)
Gustavus Adolphus College (Saint Peter, MN)
Hamilton College (Clinton, NY)
Kenyon College (Gambier, OH)
Luther College (Decorah, IA)
Occidental College (Los Angeles, CA)
Pomona College (Claremont, CA)
Rhodes College (Memphis, TN)
Roanoke College (Salem, VA)
Saint Anselm College (Manchester, NH)
Saint Norbert College (De Pere, WI)
St Lawrence University (Canton, NY)
The College of Wooster (Wooster, OH)
The University of the South (Sewanee, TN)
Trinity College (Hartford, CT)
Union College (Schenectady, NY)
University of Puget Sound (Tacoma, WA)
Washington and Lee University (Lexington, VA)
Williams College (Williamstown, MA)
Wofford College (Spartanburg, SC)

Source: https://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/dfr/2023/ReportHTML.aspx?unitId=164465

Pomona College list of peers|

Amherst College (Amherst, MA)
Carleton College (Northfield, MN)
Oberlin College (Oberlin, OH)
Swarthmore College (Swarthmore, PA)
Trinity College (Hartford, CT)
Wesleyan University (Middletown, CT)
Williams College (Williamstown, MA)

Source: https://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/dfr/2023/ReportHTML.aspx?unitId=121345

These are all according to the schools themselves

It's worth noting that Amherst did not select those peers. IPEDS selected those colleges because Amherst didn't respond to the question.

Bowdoin selected these peers:
Amherst College (Amherst, MA)
Bates College (Lewiston, ME)
Brown University (Providence, RI)
Carleton College (Northfield, MN)
Claremont McKenna College (Claremont, CA)
Colby College (Waterville, ME)
Colgate University (Hamilton, NY)
Dartmouth College (Hanover, NH)
Davidson College (Davidson, NC)
Grinnell College (Grinnell, IA)
Hamilton College (Clinton, NY)
Harvey Mudd College (Claremont, CA)
Haverford College (Haverford, PA)
Middlebury College (Middlebury, VT)
Pomona College (Claremont, CA)
Smith College (Northampton, MA)
Swarthmore College (Swarthmore, PA)
Tufts University (Medford, MA)
Vassar College (Poughkeepsie, NY)
Washington and Lee University (Lexington, VA)
Wellesley College (Wellesley, MA)
Wesleyan University (Middletown, CT)
Williams College (Williamstown, MA)

Middlebury selected these peers:
Amherst College (Amherst, MA)
Bates College (Lewiston, ME)
Bowdoin College (Brunswick, ME)
Bryn Mawr College (Bryn Mawr, PA)
Carleton College (Northfield, MN)
Colby College (Waterville, ME)
Connecticut College (New London, CT)
Hamilton College (Clinton, NY)
Haverford College (Haverford, PA)
Mount Holyoke College (South Hadley, MA)
Oberlin College (Oberlin, OH)
Pomona College (Claremont, CA)
Smith College (Northampton, MA)
Swarthmore College (Swarthmore, PA)
Trinity College (Hartford, CT)
Vassar College (Poughkeepsie, NY)
Washington and Lee University (Lexington, VA)
Wellesley College (Wellesley, MA)
Wesleyan University (Middletown, CT)
Williams College (Williamstown, MA)

You can tell who is truly elite and who wants to prestige chase. Williams and Pomona select very few peers, while these other colleges call everyone their peers.

Pomona = Trinity College. Interesting choice.

Williams = Grinnell. There’s probably more overlap than we assume.

Williams and Grinnell actually makes a lot of sense. Two of the wealthiest SLACs in the country with excellent outcomes. Please explain more about the overlap between Trinity and Pomona.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:lol Carleton is every school’s peer.

Very likable.

Amazing college that knows how to excel in the sciences without diminishing the humanities. https://www.carleton.edu/ira/carleton-peer-data/peers/

+1 Carleton is well-known for delivering a high-quality education to its students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: No reason going to a top liberal arts college and paying $90k/year to study art history; you'd frankly have more resources and access to professors at a state school.

Ever heard of the Williams art mafia? If you want to study art history you'd be very well positioned and resourced at Williams. It's the only graduate program offered there. And which state school offers more access to profs than the Williams tutorials?

You have more much access to art history courses, archives, and internship opportunities at any decent state school. You aren’t special getting 1 on 1 with an unknown professor at Williams over a known researcher in the field who likely curates and consults at a state university.

Uh, no. Williams professors are hardly unknown, far from it. Williams art history grads can write their ticket for grad school.

I work in the field. They have 1 or 2 all stars (Laylah ali) but I’m not seeing anyone or any resource that’s particularly outstanding compared to any top state school- where there will be a lot more star faculty just due to a sheer fact of size.

Name one star faculty member at a top state school. I’ll wait. (Hint: once upon a time was Berkeley and maybe UVA, but any and all big names have retired or teach at privates). It is also difficult if not impossible to get into a PhD program these days without a Masters. Williams remains the best launching pad there. No competition since the other tippy-top SLACs don’t have grad programs. This cuts both ways for Williams UGs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:much in the same way the williams and amherst boosters luv to compare their schools against HYP in a failed effort to make them seem like pseudo peers, the Bowdoin Pomona and Middlebury boosters luv to punch up and ridiculously compare themselves to A & W. It’s the DCUM striver culture at its best (or worst), always wanting to make their situation seem better..

These are both weird comparisons. No William person is comparing themselves to Princeton, because they're different schools, and it isn't unreasonable to compare top lacs to Williams and Amherst, because they're all objectively peers of one another:
Williams College list of peers |

Amherst College (Amherst, MA)
Bowdoin College (Brunswick, ME)
Carleton College (Northfield, MN)
Dartmouth College (Hanover, NH)
Grinnell College (Grinnell, IA)
Haverford College (Haverford, PA)
Middlebury College (Middlebury, VT)
Pomona College (Claremont, CA)
Swarthmore College (Swarthmore, PA)
Wesleyan University (Middletown, CT)

Source: https://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/dfr/2023/ReportHTML.aspx?unitId=168342

Amherst College list of Peers |

Bates College (Lewiston, ME)
Bowdoin College (Brunswick, ME)
Bryn Mawr College (Bryn Mawr, PA)
Carleton College (Northfield, MN)
Claflin University (Orangeburg, SC)
Concordia College at Moorhead (Moorhead, MN)
Connecticut College (New London, CT)
Davidson College (Davidson, NC)
Dickinson College (Carlisle, PA)
Drew University (Madison, NJ)
Eckerd College (Saint Petersburg, FL)
Emmanuel College (Boston, MA)
Franklin and Marshall College (Lancaster, PA)
Gustavus Adolphus College (Saint Peter, MN)
Hamilton College (Clinton, NY)
Kenyon College (Gambier, OH)
Luther College (Decorah, IA)
Occidental College (Los Angeles, CA)
Pomona College (Claremont, CA)
Rhodes College (Memphis, TN)
Roanoke College (Salem, VA)
Saint Anselm College (Manchester, NH)
Saint Norbert College (De Pere, WI)
St Lawrence University (Canton, NY)
The College of Wooster (Wooster, OH)
The University of the South (Sewanee, TN)
Trinity College (Hartford, CT)
Union College (Schenectady, NY)
University of Puget Sound (Tacoma, WA)
Washington and Lee University (Lexington, VA)
Williams College (Williamstown, MA)
Wofford College (Spartanburg, SC)

Source: https://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/dfr/2023/ReportHTML.aspx?unitId=164465

Pomona College list of peers|

Amherst College (Amherst, MA)
Carleton College (Northfield, MN)
Oberlin College (Oberlin, OH)
Swarthmore College (Swarthmore, PA)
Trinity College (Hartford, CT)
Wesleyan University (Middletown, CT)
Williams College (Williamstown, MA)

Source: https://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/dfr/2023/ReportHTML.aspx?unitId=121345

These are all according to the schools themselves

It's worth noting that Amherst did not select those peers. IPEDS selected those colleges because Amherst didn't respond to the question.

Bowdoin selected these peers:
Amherst College (Amherst, MA)
Bates College (Lewiston, ME)
Brown University (Providence, RI)
Carleton College (Northfield, MN)
Claremont McKenna College (Claremont, CA)
Colby College (Waterville, ME)
Colgate University (Hamilton, NY)
Dartmouth College (Hanover, NH)
Davidson College (Davidson, NC)
Grinnell College (Grinnell, IA)
Hamilton College (Clinton, NY)
Harvey Mudd College (Claremont, CA)
Haverford College (Haverford, PA)
Middlebury College (Middlebury, VT)
Pomona College (Claremont, CA)
Smith College (Northampton, MA)
Swarthmore College (Swarthmore, PA)
Tufts University (Medford, MA)
Vassar College (Poughkeepsie, NY)
Washington and Lee University (Lexington, VA)
Wellesley College (Wellesley, MA)
Wesleyan University (Middletown, CT)
Williams College (Williamstown, MA)

Middlebury selected these peers:
Amherst College (Amherst, MA)
Bates College (Lewiston, ME)
Bowdoin College (Brunswick, ME)
Bryn Mawr College (Bryn Mawr, PA)
Carleton College (Northfield, MN)
Colby College (Waterville, ME)
Connecticut College (New London, CT)
Hamilton College (Clinton, NY)
Haverford College (Haverford, PA)
Mount Holyoke College (South Hadley, MA)
Oberlin College (Oberlin, OH)
Pomona College (Claremont, CA)
Smith College (Northampton, MA)
Swarthmore College (Swarthmore, PA)
Trinity College (Hartford, CT)
Vassar College (Poughkeepsie, NY)
Washington and Lee University (Lexington, VA)
Wellesley College (Wellesley, MA)
Wesleyan University (Middletown, CT)
Williams College (Williamstown, MA)

You can tell who is truly elite and who wants to prestige chase. Williams and Pomona select very few peers, while these other colleges call everyone their peers.

Pomona = Trinity College. Interesting choice.

Williams = Grinnell. There’s probably more overlap than we assume.

Williams and Grinnell actually makes a lot of sense. Two of the wealthiest SLACs in the country with excellent outcomes. Please explain more about the overlap between Trinity and Pomona.

The same as Swarthmore as Grinnell

[Anonymous]

[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: No reason going to a top liberal arts college and paying $90k/year to study art history; you'd frankly have more resources and access to professors at a state school.

Ever heard of the Williams art mafia? If you want to study art history you'd be very well positioned and resourced at Williams. It's the only graduate program offered there. And which state school offers more access to profs than the Williams tutorials?

You have more much access to art history courses, archives, and internship opportunities at any decent state school. You aren’t special getting 1 on 1 with an unknown professor at Williams over a known researcher in the field who likely curates and consults at a state university.

Uh, no. Williams professors are hardly unknown, far from it. Williams art history grads can write their ticket for grad school.

I work in the field. They have 1 or 2 all stars (Laylah ali) but I’m not seeing anyone or any resource that’s particularly outstanding compared to any top state school- where there will be a lot more star faculty just due to a sheer fact of size.

Name one star faculty member at a top state school. I’ll wait. (Hint: once upon a time was Berkeley and maybe UVA, but any and all big names have retired or teach at privates). It is also difficult if not impossible to get into a PhD program these days without a Masters. Williams remains the best launching pad there. No competition since the other tippy-top SLACs don’t have grad programs. This cuts both ways for Williams UGs.

TJ Clark but he’s now emeritus. George Shackleford (much of UT Austin is very well known), Whitney Davis, Steven Nelson… you think Williams is where the art history research is taking place?

Most prestigious undergraduate programs can get you into a PhD without a masters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand the original 5 most prestigious LACs were Williams, Amherst, Middlebury, Swarthmore and Pomona. Now that USNWR has become ubiquitous, our kids are thinking that it's Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore and Bowdoin. I'm old enough to recall the "little three" was Williams, Amherst and Wesleyan.

What are the old, venerable "top 5" LACs with the strongest global name recognition now and strongest expertise across all subjects or disciplines?

If you want “global name recognition…and the strongest expertise across all subjects,” a SLAC is not for you. But you know this.

I was just about to say the same thing but PP
beat me to it