How important is "culture" fit or "lifestyle" fit when attempting to make partner in Biglaw?

[Anonymous]

Old cars. If you have to have old cars then get a Volvo/Acura/Lexus/Mercedes/BMW. Although the German ones will cost a lot. Sometimes you can play eccentric rich person with those brands. The Japanese ones will be cheaper to maintain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A+ for an interesting post that will draw in DCUM. Everyone loves a big law post here. I think ultimately OP is a troll.

This is potentially true. Because what man is restitching the crotch of his lululemon shorts multiple times? I don't know any men who could thread a needle.

Kind of sad that is the case. Me and my 4 older brothers all had to learn both at home and in school. It's a very useful skill to have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure this differs across firms/practices somewhat, but at least for the current/retired BIGLAW firm partners that are on this forum, how important is "lifestyle" or "culture" fit when attempting to make partner at your firm, if at all? I ask because the partners in my group, and generally at my firm, tend to have several things in common when it comes to their lives/culture/lifestyle that do not appeal to me and I'm wondering if that would be an impediment to my advancement. I plan on asking a very close partner that has been willing to answer my questions off the record as well but I wanted to get an idea of how, if at all, other firms consider these aspects.

Current firm partner commonalities:

1. Multiple homes - Tend to own a home in the market where our office is, in addition to at least one other home in a vacation destination. Also, if they have kids of college age, may own a home for their kids to stay in while in college/grad school.
2. Country club membership - Tend to be a member of a country club and take the family there for activities/brunch/events/etc as well as playing golf or tennis.
3. Luxury items - Tend to own a number of luxury items, including cars, jewelry, clothing, etc. Likely to have multiple watches they rotate among during the week.
4. Children - Tend to have multiple kids, ranging from 2 - 6 kids.
5. Hobbies - Aforementioned golf and tennis, but also tend to ski, play pickleball, extensive travel, attend sporting events, etc.

Personal differences:

1. Studio apartment - Currently living in the same studio apartment I rented in law school. I do a yearly review of my belongings to make sure everything I own can fit in my car if I needed to leave promptly. No plans to buy a SFH but I would consider buying a small 1BR condo if it made sense. Want to continue being able to fit all belongings in car.
2. Gym membership - Belong to multiple gyms in my city, but still far below the cost of country club membership. Don't play golf or tennis and no plans to take them up. Do not play sports in general, just exercise 1x-3x daily.
3. No luxury items - I do not purchase or own luxury items and do not wear jewelry. Cars are econoboxes that I drive for as long as possible. Currently driving a 2010 Honda Accord with 80k miles that I hope will be the last or second to last car needed prior to retirement.
4. Children/spouse: No kids and no plans for kids or a spouse. Tried dating early after law school and did not work out at all so focusing on career/fitness.
5. Hobbies: Just the 1-3x daily workouts, watching tv, video games, things along those lines. Don't follow/watch any sports, travel or leave my bubble too much. Make all my meals at home unless the firm is providing free food then I may have something from there. Don't drink alcohol or use any drugs other than caffeine.

All that being said, I'm a very hard worker. Other than my first year Ive tended to bill between 2200 - 2600 hours each year and have always gotten a bonus. There is a certain line of work that I am staffed on in my office that 100% comes to me with minimal supervision by the partners and that they have not bothered to become "up to date" on how it currently works so with 2 partners planning on retiring in the next year, all signs are pointing towards me making partner unless any of the above/something else were to stand in the way.

TL;DR - I live a very minimalist/"small" lifestyle in comparison to partners at my firm. Any chance this will prevent me from making partner or would nobody care as long as I'm bringing in work/doing the work at a high level?

Ask this on Reddit biglaw forum. This varies by firm and practice area.

[Anonymous]

If you are in a technically sophisticated area you can attract clients and build a book through your work it is not true that all partners with a book of business are glad handers, but you need to be able to make yourself indispensable to the clients

[Anonymous]

I think mid level firms are probably worse re: the fit thing than biglaw in my personal experience

[Anonymous]

At my firm, the primary issue is how much you can potentially earn for the firm. You need to bring in more than you take. You need to help grow the pie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Appreciate everyones responses and feedback here. To clarify a few points:

1. I'm a guy and yes LuLulemon make mens shorts.
2. While I would like to achieve financial independence, not entirely sure whether I want to retire early. I'm able to work hard and pursue my hobbies/interests as is so if I can keep making money while keeping that balance I would not necessarily want to change it up.
3. Not all my clothes are thrifted/second hand. Suits for client meetings/events were bought new and tailored. Same with shirts. Ties were bought new. Shoes were bought new. Basically the clothes that are worn in front of clients are what you would expect and are modern/non patched/pressed. When in office without client meetings and what not is when I'm potentially wearing second hand/repaired clothing and even though would be along the lines of repairing a seam in the crotch with thread that matches the materials already there. Slapping non color matched iron on patch on holes is not what is happening.

Sounds like what people are saying is that my rigidity may be an issue in advancing.Really wish that folks played more active sports with clients but I guess that would prevent having good conversations I'm willing to buy some clothes that are not second hand for non-client meeting circumstances but I don't think I can do a new car. If it was not running well or was messed up somehow then that would be one thing but seems like a waste to replace a good running vehicle just because its older.

You're not wasting it. You're making it available to somebody who needs an inexpensive car far more than you do.

Ultimately, you're being pretty selfish here about material goods. You're making good money but refusing to spend it because you "like seeing the number go up." You take good clothes from thrift stores where the poor could benefit from them. You take offense to the term "hoard" but that's exactly what you're doing with your wealth. And not for some high-minded, ecologically-oriented philosophy, but because you value possession of money above all else. There's a broad spectrum between spendthrift and miser. You've made your bed with Ebeneezer Scrooge.

And so now we find ourselves with your question - how do I make sure my lifestyle doesn't get in the way of making partner? Which I read instead as "can I maintain my love-of-money cheapskate lifestyle while still pursuing the acquisition of even more income as a partner so I can see the number go up faster?" Which, to be honest, is a pretty pathetic life goal. Just as is a lifestyle defined by vapid luxury for luxury's sake. You're just as bad as those you purport to look down upon. But at least they create jobs and feed the economy through their spending. You just sit on your pile of money.

I honestly think you need some therapy. For as much as I'm glad you feel like you live a content life - and for as much as one doesn't need to spend money to be fulfilled - your motivations are highly suspect and you need a healthy dose of introspection.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Appreciate everyones responses and feedback here. To clarify a few points:

1. I'm a guy and yes LuLulemon make mens shorts.
2. While I would like to achieve financial independence, not entirely sure whether I want to retire early. I'm able to work hard and pursue my hobbies/interests as is so if I can keep making money while keeping that balance I would not necessarily want to change it up.
3. Not all my clothes are thrifted/second hand. Suits for client meetings/events were bought new and tailored. Same with shirts. Ties were bought new. Shoes were bought new. Basically the clothes that are worn in front of clients are what you would expect and are modern/non patched/pressed. When in office without client meetings and what not is when I'm potentially wearing second hand/repaired clothing and even though would be along the lines of repairing a seam in the crotch with thread that matches the materials already there. Slapping non color matched iron on patch on holes is not what is happening.

Sounds like what people are saying is that my rigidity may be an issue in advancing.Really wish that folks played more active sports with clients but I guess that would prevent having good conversations I'm willing to buy some clothes that are not second hand for non-client meeting circumstances but I don't think I can do a new car. If it was not running well or was messed up somehow then that would be one thing but seems like a waste to replace a good running vehicle just because its older.

You're not wasting it. You're making it available to somebody who needs an inexpensive car far more than you do.

Ultimately, you're being pretty selfish here about material goods. You're making good money but refusing to spend it because you "like seeing the number go up." You take good clothes from thrift stores where the poor could benefit from them. You take offense to the term "hoard" but that's exactly what you're doing with your wealth. And not for some high-minded, ecologically-oriented philosophy, but because you value possession of money above all else. There's a broad spectrum between spendthrift and miser. You've made your bed with Ebeneezer Scrooge.

And so now we find ourselves with your question - how do I make sure my lifestyle doesn't get in the way of making partner? Which I read instead as "can I maintain my love-of-money cheapskate lifestyle while still pursuing the acquisition of even more income as a partner so I can see the number go up faster?" Which, to be honest, is a pretty pathetic life goal. Just as is a lifestyle defined by vapid luxury for luxury's sake. You're just as bad as those you purport to look down upon. But at least they create jobs and feed the economy through their spending. You just sit on your pile of money.

I honestly think you need some therapy. For as much as I'm glad you feel like you live a content life - and for as much as one doesn't need to spend money to be fulfilled - your motivations are highly suspect and you need a healthy dose of introspection.

Good luck.

You provide an interesting perspective here. Its almost like you're stating that I have a duty to purchase material goods of a certain cost or caliber. Almost like a reverse means test of sorts. As long as the clothes or vehicle benefit someone I don't see how it matters how much money a person has in the bank. I'm not purchasing the clothes to go then resell elsewhere, I'm using them myself so they are still helping. Same with the car. I don't really spend because other than on the things that I do/have to spend on because I feel like I have everything I need and most of what I want. I do not look down upon (almost) anyone and certainly not the people who live luxury lives. By them doing so they putting $$$ in the economy then I buy VTI and other index funds and everyone is happy.

I have gone to therapy with a few different therapists at different times in my life and they didn't really have anything to say too strongly about changing my lifestyle. Just as long as I am happy and I'm not forcing my lifestyle on others then everything was cool.

As mentioned previously, I've started talks with a couple of other firms and reached out to my contacts and have arranged a few informational interviews with other firms to see what my "worth" could potentially be in case my current firm agrees with the majority position here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Appreciate everyones responses and feedback here. To clarify a few points:

1. I'm a guy and yes LuLulemon make mens shorts.
2. While I would like to achieve financial independence, not entirely sure whether I want to retire early. I'm able to work hard and pursue my hobbies/interests as is so if I can keep making money while keeping that balance I would not necessarily want to change it up.
3. Not all my clothes are thrifted/second hand. Suits for client meetings/events were bought new and tailored. Same with shirts. Ties were bought new. Shoes were bought new. Basically the clothes that are worn in front of clients are what you would expect and are modern/non patched/pressed. When in office without client meetings and what not is when I'm potentially wearing second hand/repaired clothing and even though would be along the lines of repairing a seam in the crotch with thread that matches the materials already there. Slapping non color matched iron on patch on holes is not what is happening.

Sounds like what people are saying is that my rigidity may be an issue in advancing.Really wish that folks played more active sports with clients but I guess that would prevent having good conversations I'm willing to buy some clothes that are not second hand for non-client meeting circumstances but I don't think I can do a new car. If it was not running well or was messed up somehow then that would be one thing but seems like a waste to replace a good running vehicle just because its older.

You're not wasting it. You're making it available to somebody who needs an inexpensive car far more than you do.

Ultimately, you're being pretty selfish here about material goods. You're making good money but refusing to spend it because you "like seeing the number go up." You take good clothes from thrift stores where the poor could benefit from them. You take offense to the term "hoard" but that's exactly what you're doing with your wealth. And not for some high-minded, ecologically-oriented philosophy, but because you value possession of money above all else. There's a broad spectrum between spendthrift and miser. You've made your bed with Ebeneezer Scrooge.

And so now we find ourselves with your question - how do I make sure my lifestyle doesn't get in the way of making partner? Which I read instead as "can I maintain my love-of-money cheapskate lifestyle while still pursuing the acquisition of even more income as a partner so I can see the number go up faster?" Which, to be honest, is a pretty pathetic life goal. Just as is a lifestyle defined by vapid luxury for luxury's sake. You're just as bad as those you purport to look down upon. But at least they create jobs and feed the economy through their spending. You just sit on your pile of money.

I honestly think you need some therapy. For as much as I'm glad you feel like you live a content life - and for as much as one doesn't need to spend money to be fulfilled - your motivations are highly suspect and you need a healthy dose of introspection.

Good luck.

You provide an interesting perspective here. Its almost like you're stating that I have a duty to purchase material goods of a certain cost or caliber. Almost like a reverse means test of sorts. As long as the clothes or vehicle benefit someone I don't see how it matters how much money a person has in the bank. I'm not purchasing the clothes to go then resell elsewhere, I'm using them myself so they are still helping. Same with the car. I don't really spend because other than on the things that I do/have to spend on because I feel like I have everything I need and most of what I want. I do not look down upon (almost) anyone and certainly not the people who live luxury lives. By them doing so they putting $$$ in the economy then I buy VTI and other index funds and everyone is happy.

I have gone to therapy with a few different therapists at different times in my life and they didn't really have anything to say too strongly about changing my lifestyle. Just as long as I am happy and I'm not forcing my lifestyle on others then everything was cool.

As mentioned previously, I've started talks with a couple of other firms and reached out to my contacts and have arranged a few informational interviews with other firms to see what my "worth" could potentially be in case my current firm agrees with the majority position here.

PP here.

I'm not saying you have a duty to embrace consumerism. I think we all have an obligation to fight against that to varying degrees. I do, however, think that you are robbing the needy of opportunities to acquire quality clothes that they may need more than you. A person of means should, in my opinion, buy quality (read: not necessarily luxury) products that will last a long time and, once they've become reasonably worn, donate them and repeat the cycle. This is how the flow of charity works. If the wealthy are snatching up the good stuff from thrift stores - or never making the original purchase in the first place to eventually donate - the system breaks down. This isn't a rejection of minimalism - feel free to keep your purchases to a minimum. It's a condemnation of you cosplaying like you're in poverty and taking the resources intended for those who actually are.

And buying VTI doesn't really do much for the economy other than help capital flow. If everybody lived like you, we'd have massive unemployment and a tanking economy.

I guess I'm not surprised that your therapists haven't influenced you to change. Their lens is too narrowly focused on you and your behaviors aren't explicitly harming you or others in a tangible sense, so why would they care? But maybe you'd be better off seeing a philosopher. Somebody who can zoom out and look not just at you, but your place in the world and how you function in society. I think there's a richer (not monetary), more fulfilling life waiting for you somewhere.

Again, I wish you luck.

[Anonymous]

I don't think its your lack of a country club or vacation home. I think its a personality issue.

My DH is an equity partner at a boutique firm and we don't have really anything you mention, but love to travel. But he is without a doubt the most extroverted person I have met in my life. He will literally strike up a conversation with anyone. And enjoys it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound OCD about your daily routine and stuff and you are probably on the autism spectrum if you exhibit such resistance to change and such apparently willful misunderstanding of other people's lives. What you describe about your daily life is NOT NORMAL. I'm telling you in case you hadn't realized.

None of these things will help you with career advancement in a field where social skills are important. You will plateau at a level where your technical skills, expertise and productivity are valued, but below the level where you are required to make social connections and valuable client engagement.

I've seen it all before.

This. The lifestyle behaviors you've described and the way that you're arguing back at everyone on this thread demonstrates that you're not able/willing to "read the room" or fit in socially with the leadership.

This is so interesting because I have not taken any of OP's responses as "arguing back." I see responding to posts with more information and explaining, even with some healthy self-deprecation and self-awareness. They aren't even criticizing the apparently partner lifestyle, just listing the distinguishing elements. But, OP is not apologizing for themselves or their lifestyle. I am thinking that people may feel called out simply by how OP is living and how people may feel it reflects on their own lifestyles.

OP, I suggest that you take the responses in this thread as a sampling of the responses you will get if people learn how you live. Some people won't give a crap, others will find it interesting, and others will take it as an afront or a living judgment of their maximalist lifestyles.

[Anonymous]

I’ve only read a few responses, I can’t say OP is an aspie BUT she does seem to have some sort of disconnect going on.

OP—has anyone at your firm actually discussed you making partner with you? That’s the surest indicator, not the car you drive. I get the impression you’re pretty senior and you think that because you are an independent worker and bill lots of hours, you’ll magically become a partner. My husband is a practice group leader and puts ppl up for partner every year, and the things you list in the OP are not considerations. But, none of the ppl he’s put up/ or ones he didn’t put up would make a post like this because they have an open dialogue about career prospects and everyone know where they stand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve only read a few responses, I can’t say OP is an aspie BUT she does seem to have some sort of disconnect going on.

OP—has anyone at your firm actually discussed you making partner with you? That’s the surest indicator, not the car you drive. I get the impression you’re pretty senior and you think that because you are an independent worker and bill lots of hours, you’ll magically become a partner. My husband is a practice group leader and puts ppl up for partner every year, and the things you list in the OP are not considerations. But, none of the ppl he’s put up/ or ones he didn’t put up would make a post like this because they have an open dialogue about career prospects and everyone know where they stand.

IME most firms will eventually make you a service partner/non-equity if you bill a ton of ours and are good in your field but can't develop work on your own. But depending on how OP interacts with others at the firm, they may not even know he/she is interested.