How important is "culture" fit or "lifestyle" fit when attempting to make partner in Biglaw?

[Anonymous]

My ex was more concerned with PIV fit in her law firm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on your OP if you don’t make partner it will be for being too aspie, which caused you to make a post like this, vs the way you live. I’ve been practicing law over a decade and for 90% of my colleagues, I have no idea what their living situation is like. They could all live in shoebox studios for all I know.

I was thinking that, but I don't know. My husband and son are Aspie. They wouldn't think of asking a question like this. I almost feel like this thread is aspirational and there's no way OP is close to making partner. Whatever the reason for OP's aggressive frugality, it certainly grates on posters on DCUM, so it will grate on OP's colleagues in real life. Bottom line, how much better is your work compared to someone who is more normal?

Aspierational.


The most successful aspie lawyer I know became an independent right wing culture warrior. (Like Ben Shapiro but never did podcast/YouTube, just writing)

[Anonymous]

Weird that OP is citing things like "clothes that aren't thrifted/patched up multiple times" and "house with more than one bedroom for family of 4+" as things she cannot relate to.

This are pretty core features of any working professional parent in america. If you show up at a fed job, or a non profit job, in clothes that have been patched multiple times, you aren't going to fit in. What OP describes isn't a rich biglaw lawyer thing; it's just a person with a job and kids thing.

Also, OP cites 'lots of people on tiktok' who do thrifting. OP that is because they are literally making (or trying to make) their living off thrifting and being a social media influencer. That's why thrifting is okay for them in their job. Wearing a dress made from sewing two vintage tableclothes together doesn't fly in any other job. Including things as simple as retail.

There are some professions where you can be as weird as you want and still succeed. But that is not the case in most jobs. OP's gripes here are with jobs. Not biglaw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Weird that OP is citing things like "clothes that aren't thrifted/patched up multiple times" and "house with more than one bedroom for family of 4+" as things she cannot relate to.

This are pretty core features of any working professional parent in america. If you show up at a fed job, or a non profit job, in clothes that have been patched multiple times, you aren't going to fit in. What OP describes isn't a rich biglaw lawyer thing; it's just a person with a job and kids thing.

Also, OP cites 'lots of people on tiktok' who do thrifting. OP that is because they are literally making (or trying to make) their living off thrifting and being a social media influencer. That's why thrifting is okay for them in their job. Wearing a dress made from sewing two vintage tableclothes together doesn't fly in any other job. Including things as simple as retail.

There are some professions where you can be as weird as you want and still succeed. But that is not the case in most jobs. OP's gripes here are with jobs. Not biglaw.

I don't think there's anything wrong with buying a wardrobe of classic JCrew and Banana Republic from Goodwill if it's in great condition. But nobody should be able to tell how old your clothing is.

[Anonymous]

Is OP a part of the FIRE movement/lifestyle? I work with a woman who proudly is (and will tell you all about it) and wears it like a badge of honor but it can be super cringe and has affected her career. I like her, she’s super smart and friendly, but her obsession with thrift and the FIRE principles is insane. It is difficult to take her seriously or have her lead meetings with clients when she’s wearing battered thrifted clothes that dont fit, she cuts her own hair, and she brings empty takeout containers to take the free lunch leftovers home.

OP could be a good service partner or of counsel but unless she’s bringing in a book of business above her overhead, she won’t be equity partner anywhere. And that requires people skills and being presentable (and likable).

[Anonymous]

Elsewhere on DCUM, women are recommended artistically and fakely patched Mother brand jeans.

https://www.nordstrom.com/s/the-bookie-heel-bootcut-jeans-ironing-things-out/8399104?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FBrands%2FMOTHER&color=420

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1294213.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Elsewhere on DCUM, women are recommended artistically and fakely patched Mother brand jeans.

https://www.nordstrom.com/s/the-bookie-heel-bootcut-jeans-ironing-things-out/8399104?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FBrands%2FMOTHER&color=420

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1294213.page

Okay but I would never wear those to any work event.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is OP a part of the FIRE movement/lifestyle? I work with a woman who proudly is (and will tell you all about it) and wears it like a badge of honor but it can be super cringe and has affected her career. I like her, she’s super smart and friendly, but her obsession with thrift and the FIRE principles is insane. It is difficult to take her seriously or have her lead meetings with clients when she’s wearing battered thrifted clothes that dont fit, she cuts her own hair, and she brings empty takeout containers to take the free lunch leftovers home.

OP could be a good service partner or of counsel but unless she’s bringing in a book of business above her overhead, she won’t be equity partner anywhere. And that requires people skills and being presentable (and likable).

Sounds like your colleague is on the autism spectrum as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on your OP if you don’t make partner it will be for being too aspie, which caused you to make a post like this, vs the way you live. I’ve been practicing law over a decade and for 90% of my colleagues, I have no idea what their living situation is like. They could all live in shoebox studios for all I know.

I was thinking that, but I don't know. My husband and son are Aspie. They wouldn't think of asking a question like this. I almost feel like this thread is aspirational and there's no way OP is close to making partner. Whatever the reason for OP's aggressive frugality, it certainly grates on posters on DCUM, so it will grate on OP's colleagues in real life. Bottom line, how much better is your work compared to someone who is more normal?

A lot of aspie people, in my experience, catalogue the choices of the people around them like OP is doing and then compare to their choices. A sort of informed masking.

I've been a partner at two different firms. Trust me when I say that there are no shortage of aspies in big law partnerships.

[Anonymous]

I think the key is if you bring in business. Doing good work is one thing but partners are expected to manage clients, bring in new ones, and increase firm revenue overall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is OP a part of the FIRE movement/lifestyle? I work with a woman who proudly is (and will tell you all about it) and wears it like a badge of honor but it can be super cringe and has affected her career. I like her, she’s super smart and friendly, but her obsession with thrift and the FIRE principles is insane. It is difficult to take her seriously or have her lead meetings with clients when she’s wearing battered thrifted clothes that dont fit, she cuts her own hair, and she brings empty takeout containers to take the free lunch leftovers home.

OP could be a good service partner or of counsel but unless she’s bringing in a book of business above her overhead, she won’t be equity partner anywhere. And that requires people skills and being presentable (and likable).

Sounds like your colleague is on the autism spectrum as well.

She probably is, and she's pretty much maxed out at the level and won't advance any further.

[Anonymous]

Appreciate everyones responses and feedback here. To clarify a few points:

1. I'm a guy and yes LuLulemon make mens shorts.
2. While I would like to achieve financial independence, not entirely sure whether I want to retire early. I'm able to work hard and pursue my hobbies/interests as is so if I can keep making money while keeping that balance I would not necessarily want to change it up.
3. Not all my clothes are thrifted/second hand. Suits for client meetings/events were bought new and tailored. Same with shirts. Ties were bought new. Shoes were bought new. Basically the clothes that are worn in front of clients are what you would expect and are modern/non patched/pressed. When in office without client meetings and what not is when I'm potentially wearing second hand/repaired clothing and even though would be along the lines of repairing a seam in the crotch with thread that matches the materials already there. Slapping non color matched iron on patch on holes is not what is happening.

Sounds like what people are saying is that my rigidity may be an issue in advancing.Really wish that folks played more active sports with clients but I guess that would prevent having good conversations I'm willing to buy some clothes that are not second hand for non-client meeting circumstances but I don't think I can do a new car. If it was not running well or was messed up somehow then that would be one thing but seems like a waste to replace a good running vehicle just because its older.

[Anonymous]

Set aside $2000 and see a professional stylist consultant at a major department store. Get some well-fitting clothes and staple pieces. You have to look the part and the second-hand look won’t do it. Consider the $200 a sunk cost and do not let yourself fret over it, it may pay in dividends. But you have to step up your look. You represent the firm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To make partner, you need to attract and keep business. This is not simply about working long hours and producing good briefs. This is where the socialization, networking, and "sell" personality come in. It seems to me that you are going out of your way to justify how different you are from what you perceive typical big law partners to be (which is grossly monolithic, BTW).
OP, do you even want to make partner? Maybe you'd be better in house, where you don't have to deal with bringing in new business. Maybe you'd be happiest being of counsel, so you can still earn a very decent salary, but can forego all the social trappings that make you so uncomfortable.
Partnership in big law isn't for everyone. It does take a certain amount of willingness and drive to understand clients on multiple levels, which it seems that you do not have.

This. I am a big law recruiter. Lifestyle and personality matter very much. You have to be attractive to clients. You also have to be a leader at the firm and have rapport with associates. Your life doesn't seem like a good match for this. You might be happier at a small firm. I am certain you dont have a lot of people championing for your advancement because you dont have much in common with the rest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on your OP if you don’t make partner it will be for being too aspie, which caused you to make a post like this, vs the way you live. I’ve been practicing law over a decade and for 90% of my colleagues, I have no idea what their living situation is like. They could all live in shoebox studios for all I know.

I was thinking that, but I don't know. My husband and son are Aspie. They wouldn't think of asking a question like this. I almost feel like this thread is aspirational and there's no way OP is close to making partner. Whatever the reason for OP's aggressive frugality, it certainly grates on posters on DCUM, so it will grate on OP's colleagues in real life. Bottom line, how much better is your work compared to someone who is more normal?

A lot of aspie people, in my experience, catalogue the choices of the people around them like OP is doing and then compare to their choices. A sort of informed masking.

NP and I agree. For OP, I think the key is to break "lifestyle" (which I think the partnership affords, not vice versa) apart from "culture/fit" - which varies somewhat between firms, but either way, which OP is struggling to put their finger on, and could use help to identify.