McGill, St. Andrew’s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the poster who said that Saint Andrews wasn’t all that selective and was reported and deleted for daring to say that lol. I don’t want to say too much, but I do know a family where all of the kids went to Saint Andrews from the DMV. They were smart kids but not superstars. None was accepted top schools. Denied in state UVA etc. So I do have more than just the theoretical knowledge about this.

+1. It’s an NYU/BC level school, which is perfectly fine. No need to oversell it.

What makes you say it's an NYU/BC level school? There is no evidence to back this.

People on this thread need a masterclass on perspective vs perception.

Because it is almost certain with a 1320 SAT optional minimum and a 60% acceptance rate that their 25th-75th percentile looks a lot like those schools pre-test optional. Perhaps even lower than those schools, I would say that’s probably the upper bound.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the poster who said that Saint Andrews wasn’t all that selective and was reported and deleted for daring to say that lol. I don’t want to say too much, but I do know a family where all of the kids went to Saint Andrews from the DMV. They were smart kids but not superstars. None was accepted top schools. Denied in state UVA etc. So I do have more than just the theoretical knowledge about this.

There are a couple of factors here:
-Year: When were the kids accepted to St Andrews? It has become even more competitive in recent years.
-School: Did the children attend a private school? If so they would have a higher chance of gaining acceptance to St Andrews as they target private school to get higher donors
-Acceptance rate & prestige: As addressed numerous times on this thread, you cannot correlate the US acceptance rate with the academic prestige of a school like St Andrews for various reasons.
-Bias: You state that "They were smart kids but not superstars. None was accepted top schools". As noted on this thread there are countless "superstars" who were also accepted to top schools and decided to attend St Andrews. Your own perception does not capture the full picture. Furthermore, even in the US there are kids who slip through the cracks and attend top schools. There are also multiple people on this thread who have shared the stats of their impressive kids who were not accepted to St Andrews.

DP. Last year was actually the least competitive of the past three years for American students.

There are multiple people on this thread and others whose kids were choosing between it and CU Boulder and the like. The anecdotes on here are worthless.

I went to St Andrews and more of my US classmates were choosing between low ivies/UMich/UCLA/Emory and other top 20 schools vs. a school like CU Boulder/BC/NYU. I don't think you can get more accurate anecdote..

I did too and I honestly couldn’t tell you what schools most of the other kids had chosen between the year before. Because, let’s be honest, this is made up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the poster who said that Saint Andrews wasn’t all that selective and was reported and deleted for daring to say that lol. I don’t want to say too much, but I do know a family where all of the kids went to Saint Andrews from the DMV. They were smart kids but not superstars. None was accepted top schools. Denied in state UVA etc. So I do have more than just the theoretical knowledge about this.

+1. It’s an NYU/BC level school, which is perfectly fine. No need to oversell it.

What makes you say it's an NYU/BC level school? There is no evidence to back this.

People on this thread need a masterclass on perspective vs perception.

Because it is almost certain with a 1320 SAT optional minimum and a 60% acceptance rate that their 25th-75th percentile looks a lot like those schools pre-test optional. Perhaps even lower than those schools, I would say that’s probably the upper bound.

You're making a large assumption here- that the entrance for US students to St Andrews correlates to its overall prestige, academic excellence, and graudate propsectus.. it does not. St Andrews has one of/if not the hardest entry requirements for UK students. It's easier for American students to gain acceptance. It's graduate prospectus is top 3-4 according to the league tables.

The acceptance rate is inflated for multiple reasons already outlines in this thread (entry requirements, self selection. etc).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the poster who said that Saint Andrews wasn’t all that selective and was reported and deleted for daring to say that lol. I don’t want to say too much, but I do know a family where all of the kids went to Saint Andrews from the DMV. They were smart kids but not superstars. None was accepted top schools. Denied in state UVA etc. So I do have more than just the theoretical knowledge about this.

There are a couple of factors here:
-Year: When were the kids accepted to St Andrews? It has become even more competitive in recent years.
-School: Did the children attend a private school? If so they would have a higher chance of gaining acceptance to St Andrews as they target private school to get higher donors
-Acceptance rate & prestige: As addressed numerous times on this thread, you cannot correlate the US acceptance rate with the academic prestige of a school like St Andrews for various reasons.
-Bias: You state that "They were smart kids but not superstars. None was accepted top schools". As noted on this thread there are countless "superstars" who were also accepted to top schools and decided to attend St Andrews. Your own perception does not capture the full picture. Furthermore, even in the US there are kids who slip through the cracks and attend top schools. There are also multiple people on this thread who have shared the stats of their impressive kids who were not accepted to St Andrews.

DP. Last year was actually the least competitive of the past three years for American students.

There are multiple people on this thread and others whose kids were choosing between it and CU Boulder and the like. The anecdotes on here are worthless.

I went to St Andrews and more of my US classmates were choosing between low ivies/UMich/UCLA/Emory and other top 20 schools vs. a school like CU Boulder/BC/NYU. I don't think you can get more accurate anecdote..

I did too and I honestly couldn’t tell you what schools most of the other kids had chosen between the year before. Because, let’s be honest, this is made up.

It's not made up. I also went to St Andrews and now attend a Top 3 grad school (law/business). OP is telling the truth- a good amount of the accepted US students got into T20 US schools. You're telling me you never discussed other schools you got accepted to with your US classmates/friends? You must have not graduated recently or lived in a bubble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the poster who said that Saint Andrews wasn’t all that selective and was reported and deleted for daring to say that lol. I don’t want to say too much, but I do know a family where all of the kids went to Saint Andrews from the DMV. They were smart kids but not superstars. None was accepted top schools. Denied in state UVA etc. So I do have more than just the theoretical knowledge about this.

There are a couple of factors here:
-Year: When were the kids accepted to St Andrews? It has become even more competitive in recent years.
-School: Did the children attend a private school? If so they would have a higher chance of gaining acceptance to St Andrews as they target private school to get higher donors
-Acceptance rate & prestige: As addressed numerous times on this thread, you cannot correlate the US acceptance rate with the academic prestige of a school like St Andrews for various reasons.
-Bias: You state that "They were smart kids but not superstars. None was accepted top schools". As noted on this thread there are countless "superstars" who were also accepted to top schools and decided to attend St Andrews. Your own perception does not capture the full picture. Furthermore, even in the US there are kids who slip through the cracks and attend top schools. There are also multiple people on this thread who have shared the stats of their impressive kids who were not accepted to St Andrews.

DP. Last year was actually the least competitive of the past three years for American students.

There are multiple people on this thread and others whose kids were choosing between it and CU Boulder and the like. The anecdotes on here are worthless.

I went to St Andrews and more of my US classmates were choosing between low ivies/UMich/UCLA/Emory and other top 20 schools vs. a school like CU Boulder/BC/NYU. I don't think you can get more accurate anecdote..

I did too and I honestly couldn’t tell you what schools most of the other kids had chosen between the year before. Because, let’s be honest, this is made up.

It's not made up. I also went to St Andrews and now attend a Top 3 grad school (law/business). OP is telling the truth- a good amount of the accepted US students got into T20 US schools. You're telling me you never discussed other schools you got accepted to with your US classmates/friends? You must have not graduated recently or lived in a bubble.

DP. Who are you really? I find it hard to believe that a grad student has any time or interest to respond here.
I think StA is great though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:McGill employs a GPA cut-off in order to have your application read. It differs by major so look it up but usually you need above an A- in the subjects core to your major. This GPA cut-off serves as a way to weed out on the front end lots of applications that would normally get reviewed in the US. Since McGill prevents those from going in the pile, they have a higher admission rate than comparable schools in the US but that's because they use GPA to reduce the pool on the front-end so that they're only spending time reading qualified applications.

So don't mistake their seemingly higher application rate for it being of lower academic standard. It's not. They just only allow applications for qualified applicants (not 3.3 gpa "hail mary" applications allowed like at the ivies). Secondly for public unis like McGill, Canada has increased seats at their most sought after schools. As a result, classes are large and similar to big, public state schools in the US.

This. All the top universities in Canada have high acceptance rates. Their high school counsellors won’t let students apply unless they meet the GPS cutoffs, which are publicized. Typically highest for U of T, then UBC, followed by Waterloo and McGill. Everyone in HS knows who will likely to attend where by fall of junior year. It’s much simpler than college admissions in the U.S. b/c they don’t consider ECs, first gen, etc. Most kids apply to 2-4 schools and get into most of them! Something American kids can’t imagine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the poster who said that Saint Andrews wasn’t all that selective and was reported and deleted for daring to say that lol. I don’t want to say too much, but I do know a family where all of the kids went to Saint Andrews from the DMV. They were smart kids but not superstars. None was accepted top schools. Denied in state UVA etc. So I do have more than just the theoretical knowledge about this.

There are a couple of factors here:
-Year: When were the kids accepted to St Andrews? It has become even more competitive in recent years.
-School: Did the children attend a private school? If so they would have a higher chance of gaining acceptance to St Andrews as they target private school to get higher donors
-Acceptance rate & prestige: As addressed numerous times on this thread, you cannot correlate the US acceptance rate with the academic prestige of a school like St Andrews for various reasons.
-Bias: You state that "They were smart kids but not superstars. None was accepted top schools". As noted on this thread there are countless "superstars" who were also accepted to top schools and decided to attend St Andrews. Your own perception does not capture the full picture. Furthermore, even in the US there are kids who slip through the cracks and attend top schools. There are also multiple people on this thread who have shared the stats of their impressive kids who were not accepted to St Andrews.

DP. Last year was actually the least competitive of the past three years for American students.

There are multiple people on this thread and others whose kids were choosing between it and CU Boulder and the like. The anecdotes on here are worthless.

I went to St Andrews and more of my US classmates were choosing between low ivies/UMich/UCLA/Emory and other top 20 schools vs. a school like CU Boulder/BC/NYU. I don't think you can get more accurate anecdote..

I did too and I honestly couldn’t tell you what schools most of the other kids had chosen between the year before. Because, let’s be honest, this is made up.

It's not made up. I also went to St Andrews and now attend a Top 3 grad school (law/business). OP is telling the truth- a good amount of the accepted US students got into T20 US schools. You're telling me you never discussed other schools you got accepted to with your US classmates/friends? You must have not graduated recently or lived in a bubble.

DP. Who are you really? I find it hard to believe that a grad student has any time or interest to respond here.
I think StA is great though.

I am indeed a grad student and St Andrews alum- younger sibling was applying and came across this thread. Trying to be helpful for those genuinely interested. The thread is also comical and amusing- its better than reading the DailyMail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the poster who said that Saint Andrews wasn’t all that selective and was reported and deleted for daring to say that lol. I don’t want to say too much, but I do know a family where all of the kids went to Saint Andrews from the DMV. They were smart kids but not superstars. None was accepted top schools. Denied in state UVA etc. So I do have more than just the theoretical knowledge about this.

+1. It’s an NYU/BC level school, which is perfectly fine. No need to oversell it.

What makes you say it's an NYU/BC level school? There is no evidence to back this.

People on this thread need a masterclass on perspective vs perception.

Because it is almost certain with a 1320 SAT optional minimum and a 60% acceptance rate that their 25th-75th percentile looks a lot like those schools pre-test optional. Perhaps even lower than those schools, I would say that’s probably the upper bound.

You're making a large assumption here- that the entrance for US students to St Andrews correlates to its overall prestige, academic excellence, and graudate propsectus.. it does not. St Andrews has one of/if not the hardest entry requirements for UK students. It's easier for American students to gain acceptance. It's graduate prospectus is top 3-4 according to the league tables.

The acceptance rate is inflated for multiple reasons already outlines in this thread (entry requirements, self selection. etc).

I didn’t make any of these assumptions as we were talking about admissions only (where, yes, mathematically the middle of the distribution is probably in the 1400s, similar to an NYU/BC or a bit lower).

But yes, for all of these things St Andrews is equivalent to a US T30 or T40. For prestige, it is viewed as well behind 5 or 6 other UK schools and among a group of schools a tier down. Graduate prospectus is not top 3-4, for graduate prospect outcomes in the league tables it is 7th and closer to the schools ranked 16th-17th on that measure than the number 1 spot. Academic excellence, it is notable in a few areas but not across the board.

T30 or even T40 is not bad at all, for what it’s worth. It’s actually very strong and those are great schools with great outcomes. But it’s only on DCUM where private/boarding school parents and recent grads are trying to make it an Ivy equivalent to assuage their insecurity about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the poster who said that Saint Andrews wasn’t all that selective and was reported and deleted for daring to say that lol. I don’t want to say too much, but I do know a family where all of the kids went to Saint Andrews from the DMV. They were smart kids but not superstars. None was accepted top schools. Denied in state UVA etc. So I do have more than just the theoretical knowledge about this.

+1. It’s an NYU/BC level school, which is perfectly fine. No need to oversell it.

What makes you say it's an NYU/BC level school? There is no evidence to back this.

People on this thread need a masterclass on perspective vs perception.

Because it is almost certain with a 1320 SAT optional minimum and a 60% acceptance rate that their 25th-75th percentile looks a lot like those schools pre-test optional. Perhaps even lower than those schools, I would say that’s probably the upper bound.

You're making a large assumption here- that the entrance for US students to St Andrews correlates to its overall prestige, academic excellence, and graudate propsectus.. it does not. St Andrews has one of/if not the hardest entry requirements for UK students. It's easier for American students to gain acceptance. It's graduate prospectus is top 3-4 according to the league tables.

The acceptance rate is inflated for multiple reasons already outlines in this thread (entry requirements, self selection. etc).

I didn’t make any of these assumptions as we were talking about admissions only (where, yes, mathematically the middle of the distribution is probably in the 1400s, similar to an NYU/BC or a bit lower).

But yes, for all of these things St Andrews is equivalent to a US T30 or T40. For prestige, it is viewed as well behind 5 or 6 other UK schools and among a group of schools a tier down. Graduate prospectus is not top 3-4, for graduate prospect outcomes in the league tables it is 7th and closer to the schools ranked 16th-17th on that measure than the number 1 spot. Academic excellence, it is notable in a few areas but not across the board.

T30 or even T40 is not bad at all, for what it’s worth. It’s actually very strong and those are great schools with great outcomes. But it’s only on DCUM where private/boarding school parents and recent grads are trying to make it an Ivy equivalent to assuage their insecurity about it.

Graduate Prospectus is 87% (only slightly behind Cambridge and Oxford, both at 90%)

Entry Standards are 100%- the highest in the UK. Student Satisfaction is 83%- also the highest in the UK. Definitely not viewed behind 5 or 6 other UK schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the poster who said that Saint Andrews wasn’t all that selective and was reported and deleted for daring to say that lol. I don’t want to say too much, but I do know a family where all of the kids went to Saint Andrews from the DMV. They were smart kids but not superstars. None was accepted top schools. Denied in state UVA etc. So I do have more than just the theoretical knowledge about this.

+1. It’s an NYU/BC level school, which is perfectly fine. No need to oversell it.

What makes you say it's an NYU/BC level school? There is no evidence to back this.

People on this thread need a masterclass on perspective vs perception.

Because it is almost certain with a 1320 SAT optional minimum and a 60% acceptance rate that their 25th-75th percentile looks a lot like those schools pre-test optional. Perhaps even lower than those schools, I would say that’s probably the upper bound.

You're making a large assumption here- that the entrance for US students to St Andrews correlates to its overall prestige, academic excellence, and graudate propsectus.. it does not. St Andrews has one of/if not the hardest entry requirements for UK students. It's easier for American students to gain acceptance. It's graduate prospectus is top 3-4 according to the league tables.

The acceptance rate is inflated for multiple reasons already outlines in this thread (entry requirements, self selection. etc).

I didn’t make any of these assumptions as we were talking about admissions only (where, yes, mathematically the middle of the distribution is probably in the 1400s, similar to an NYU/BC or a bit lower).

But yes, for all of these things St Andrews is equivalent to a US T30 or T40. For prestige, it is viewed as well behind 5 or 6 other UK schools and among a group of schools a tier down. Graduate prospectus is not top 3-4, for graduate prospect outcomes in the league tables it is 7th and closer to the schools ranked 16th-17th on that measure than the number 1 spot. Academic excellence, it is notable in a few areas but not across the board.

T30 or even T40 is not bad at all, for what it’s worth. It’s actually very strong and those are great schools with great outcomes. But it’s only on DCUM where private/boarding school parents and recent grads are trying to make it an Ivy equivalent to assuage their insecurity about it.

Graduate Prospectus is 87% (only slightly behind Cambridge and Oxford, both at 90%)

Entry Standards are 100%- the highest in the UK. Student Satisfaction is 83%- also the highest in the UK. Definitely not viewed behind 5 or 6 other UK schools.

Will this ever, ever end?

I know a NOVA family where literally every one of the kids ended up at St Andrew’s after being rejected in state for UVA. They didn’t want to go anywhere else in state and didn’t want to pay top dollar for OOS tuition or top 40 private. It makes sense to me. But let’s stop pretending American kids are turning down Harvard for St Andrew’s. They’re not. It doesn’t mean it isn’t a good school and a good financial option for many.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the poster who said that Saint Andrews wasn’t all that selective and was reported and deleted for daring to say that lol. I don’t want to say too much, but I do know a family where all of the kids went to Saint Andrews from the DMV. They were smart kids but not superstars. None was accepted top schools. Denied in state UVA etc. So I do have more than just the theoretical knowledge about this.

+1. It’s an NYU/BC level school, which is perfectly fine. No need to oversell it.

What makes you say it's an NYU/BC level school? There is no evidence to back this.

People on this thread need a masterclass on perspective vs perception.

Because it is almost certain with a 1320 SAT optional minimum and a 60% acceptance rate that their 25th-75th percentile looks a lot like those schools pre-test optional. Perhaps even lower than those schools, I would say that’s probably the upper bound.

You're making a large assumption here- that the entrance for US students to St Andrews correlates to its overall prestige, academic excellence, and graudate propsectus.. it does not. St Andrews has one of/if not the hardest entry requirements for UK students. It's easier for American students to gain acceptance. It's graduate prospectus is top 3-4 according to the league tables.

The acceptance rate is inflated for multiple reasons already outlines in this thread (entry requirements, self selection. etc).

I didn’t make any of these assumptions as we were talking about admissions only (where, yes, mathematically the middle of the distribution is probably in the 1400s, similar to an NYU/BC or a bit lower).

But yes, for all of these things St Andrews is equivalent to a US T30 or T40. For prestige, it is viewed as well behind 5 or 6 other UK schools and among a group of schools a tier down. Graduate prospectus is not top 3-4, for graduate prospect outcomes in the league tables it is 7th and closer to the schools ranked 16th-17th on that measure than the number 1 spot. Academic excellence, it is notable in a few areas but not across the board.

T30 or even T40 is not bad at all, for what it’s worth. It’s actually very strong and those are great schools with great outcomes. But it’s only on DCUM where private/boarding school parents and recent grads are trying to make it an Ivy equivalent to assuage their insecurity about it.

Graduate Prospectus is 87% (only slightly behind Cambridge and Oxford, both at 90%)

Entry Standards are 100%- the highest in the UK. Student Satisfaction is 83%- also the highest in the UK. Definitely not viewed behind 5 or 6 other UK schools.

Will this ever, ever end?

I know a NOVA family where literally every one of the kids ended up at St Andrew’s after being rejected in state for UVA. They didn’t want to go anywhere else in state and didn’t want to pay top dollar for OOS tuition or top 40 private. It makes sense to me. But let’s stop pretending American kids are turning down Harvard for St Andrew’s. They’re not. It doesn’t mean it isn’t a good school and a good financial option for many.

Definitely not Harvard- but I know multiple that turned down Dartmouth, Cornell, Columbia, UMich.

Long story short its very hard to compare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the poster who said that Saint Andrews wasn’t all that selective and was reported and deleted for daring to say that lol. I don’t want to say too much, but I do know a family where all of the kids went to Saint Andrews from the DMV. They were smart kids but not superstars. None was accepted top schools. Denied in state UVA etc. So I do have more than just the theoretical knowledge about this.

+1. It’s an NYU/BC level school, which is perfectly fine. No need to oversell it.

What makes you say it's an NYU/BC level school? There is no evidence to back this.

People on this thread need a masterclass on perspective vs perception.

Because it is almost certain with a 1320 SAT optional minimum and a 60% acceptance rate that their 25th-75th percentile looks a lot like those schools pre-test optional. Perhaps even lower than those schools, I would say that’s probably the upper bound.

You're making a large assumption here- that the entrance for US students to St Andrews correlates to its overall prestige, academic excellence, and graudate propsectus.. it does not. St Andrews has one of/if not the hardest entry requirements for UK students. It's easier for American students to gain acceptance. It's graduate prospectus is top 3-4 according to the league tables.

The acceptance rate is inflated for multiple reasons already outlines in this thread (entry requirements, self selection. etc).

I didn’t make any of these assumptions as we were talking about admissions only (where, yes, mathematically the middle of the distribution is probably in the 1400s, similar to an NYU/BC or a bit lower).

But yes, for all of these things St Andrews is equivalent to a US T30 or T40. For prestige, it is viewed as well behind 5 or 6 other UK schools and among a group of schools a tier down. Graduate prospectus is not top 3-4, for graduate prospect outcomes in the league tables it is 7th and closer to the schools ranked 16th-17th on that measure than the number 1 spot. Academic excellence, it is notable in a few areas but not across the board.

T30 or even T40 is not bad at all, for what it’s worth. It’s actually very strong and those are great schools with great outcomes. But it’s only on DCUM where private/boarding school parents and recent grads are trying to make it an Ivy equivalent to assuage their insecurity about it.

Graduate Prospectus is 87% (only slightly behind Cambridge and Oxford, both at 90%)

Entry Standards are 100%- the highest in the UK. Student Satisfaction is 83%- also the highest in the UK. Definitely not viewed behind 5 or 6 other UK schools.

We’ve been over this once, their graduate prospectus score is closer to Cardiff and City St. George’s (ranked 12th and 13th) than it is to Oxford and Cambridge.

Here is everything you need to know about entry standards. They actually arent highest in the UK, you are just seeing a raw Scottish bias score that gets discounted later. This is why Glasgow, Edinburgh, Strathclyde, Dundee, and Aberdeen are also in the raw top 10 for entry standards. From the methodology:

“For the ranking, points derived from Scottish qualifications were reduced by 25% to allow for the fact that the Scottish education system gives more opportunities for students to accumulate points. Doing this provides a fairer comparison with providers who take most of their students from other parts of the UK. But in the published table it is the raw score that is displayed, i.e. before the discount is applied.”

It’s true that student satisfaction is highest. That’s great and not something to be discounted by parents and potential applicants. But that’s about it for being tops.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the poster who said that Saint Andrews wasn’t all that selective and was reported and deleted for daring to say that lol. I don’t want to say too much, but I do know a family where all of the kids went to Saint Andrews from the DMV. They were smart kids but not superstars. None was accepted top schools. Denied in state UVA etc. So I do have more than just the theoretical knowledge about this.

+1. It’s an NYU/BC level school, which is perfectly fine. No need to oversell it.

What makes you say it's an NYU/BC level school? There is no evidence to back this.

People on this thread need a masterclass on perspective vs perception.

Because it is almost certain with a 1320 SAT optional minimum and a 60% acceptance rate that their 25th-75th percentile looks a lot like those schools pre-test optional. Perhaps even lower than those schools, I would say that’s probably the upper bound.

You're making a large assumption here- that the entrance for US students to St Andrews correlates to its overall prestige, academic excellence, and graudate propsectus.. it does not. St Andrews has one of/if not the hardest entry requirements for UK students. It's easier for American students to gain acceptance. It's graduate prospectus is top 3-4 according to the league tables.

The acceptance rate is inflated for multiple reasons already outlines in this thread (entry requirements, self selection. etc).

I didn’t make any of these assumptions as we were talking about admissions only (where, yes, mathematically the middle of the distribution is probably in the 1400s, similar to an NYU/BC or a bit lower).

But yes, for all of these things St Andrews is equivalent to a US T30 or T40. For prestige, it is viewed as well behind 5 or 6 other UK schools and among a group of schools a tier down. Graduate prospectus is not top 3-4, for graduate prospect outcomes in the league tables it is 7th and closer to the schools ranked 16th-17th on that measure than the number 1 spot. Academic excellence, it is notable in a few areas but not across the board.

T30 or even T40 is not bad at all, for what it’s worth. It’s actually very strong and those are great schools with great outcomes. But it’s only on DCUM where private/boarding school parents and recent grads are trying to make it an Ivy equivalent to assuage their insecurity about it.

Graduate Prospectus is 87% (only slightly behind Cambridge and Oxford, both at 90%)

Entry Standards are 100%- the highest in the UK. Student Satisfaction is 83%- also the highest in the UK. Definitely not viewed behind 5 or 6 other UK schools.

We’ve been over this once, their graduate prospectus score is closer to Cardiff and City St. George’s (ranked 12th and 13th) than it is to Oxford and Cambridge.

Here is everything you need to know about entry standards. They actually arent highest in the UK, you are just seeing a raw Scottish bias score that gets discounted later. This is why Glasgow, Edinburgh, Strathclyde, Dundee, and Aberdeen are also in the raw top 10 for entry standards. From the methodology:

“For the ranking, points derived from Scottish qualifications were reduced by 25% to allow for the fact that the Scottish education system gives more opportunities for students to accumulate points. Doing this provides a fairer comparison with providers who take most of their students from other parts of the UK. But in the published table it is the raw score that is displayed, i.e. before the discount is applied.”

It’s true that student satisfaction is highest. That’s great and not something to be discounted by parents and potential applicants. But that’s about it for being tops.

While the Scottish university's may get a boost, gaining admittance to St Andrews from the UK is still extremely competitive. Students with very competitive A levels get rejected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the poster who said that Saint Andrews wasn’t all that selective and was reported and deleted for daring to say that lol. I don’t want to say too much, but I do know a family where all of the kids went to Saint Andrews from the DMV. They were smart kids but not superstars. None was accepted top schools. Denied in state UVA etc. So I do have more than just the theoretical knowledge about this.

There are a couple of factors here:
-Year: When were the kids accepted to St Andrews? It has become even more competitive in recent years.
-School: Did the children attend a private school? If so they would have a higher chance of gaining acceptance to St Andrews as they target private school to get higher donors
-Acceptance rate & prestige: As addressed numerous times on this thread, you cannot correlate the US acceptance rate with the academic prestige of a school like St Andrews for various reasons.
-Bias: You state that "They were smart kids but not superstars. None was accepted top schools". As noted on this thread there are countless "superstars" who were also accepted to top schools and decided to attend St Andrews. Your own perception does not capture the full picture. Furthermore, even in the US there are kids who slip through the cracks and attend top schools. There are also multiple people on this thread who have shared the stats of their impressive kids who were not accepted to St Andrews.

DP. Last year was actually the least competitive of the past three years for American students.

There are multiple people on this thread and others whose kids were choosing between it and CU Boulder and the like. The anecdotes on here are worthless.

I went to St Andrews and more of my US classmates were choosing between low ivies/UMich/UCLA/Emory and other top 20 schools vs. a school like CU Boulder/BC/NYU. I don't think you can get more accurate anecdote..

I did too and I honestly couldn’t tell you what schools most of the other kids had chosen between the year before. Because, let’s be honest, this is made up.

It's not made up. I also went to St Andrews and now attend a Top 3 grad school (law/business). OP is telling the truth- a good amount of the accepted US students got into T20 US schools. You're telling me you never discussed other schools you got accepted to with your US classmates/friends? You must have not graduated recently or lived in a bubble.

DP. Who are you really? I find it hard to believe that a grad student has any time or interest to respond here.
I think StA is great though.

Actually University of British Columbia has a special program for applicants who are Native Americans / Indiginous Canadians which is essentially a first gen program.

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Anonymous wrote:I am the poster who said that Saint Andrews wasn’t all that selective and was reported and deleted for daring to say that lol. I don’t want to say too much, but I do know a family where all of the kids went to Saint Andrews from the DMV. They were smart kids but not superstars. None was accepted top schools. Denied in state UVA etc. So I do have more than just the theoretical knowledge about this.

+1. It’s an NYU/BC level school, which is perfectly fine. No need to oversell it.

What makes you say it's an NYU/BC level school? There is no evidence to back this.

People on this thread need a masterclass on perspective vs perception.

Because it is almost certain with a 1320 SAT optional minimum and a 60% acceptance rate that their 25th-75th percentile looks a lot like those schools pre-test optional. Perhaps even lower than those schools, I would say that’s probably the upper bound.

You're making a large assumption here- that the entrance for US students to St Andrews correlates to its overall prestige, academic excellence, and graudate propsectus.. it does not. St Andrews has one of/if not the hardest entry requirements for UK students. It's easier for American students to gain acceptance. It's graduate prospectus is top 3-4 according to the league tables.

The acceptance rate is inflated for multiple reasons already outlines in this thread (entry requirements, self selection. etc).

I didn’t make any of these assumptions as we were talking about admissions only (where, yes, mathematically the middle of the distribution is probably in the 1400s, similar to an NYU/BC or a bit lower).

But yes, for all of these things St Andrews is equivalent to a US T30 or T40. For prestige, it is viewed as well behind 5 or 6 other UK schools and among a group of schools a tier down. Graduate prospectus is not top 3-4, for graduate prospect outcomes in the league tables it is 7th and closer to the schools ranked 16th-17th on that measure than the number 1 spot. Academic excellence, it is notable in a few areas but not across the board.

T30 or even T40 is not bad at all, for what it’s worth. It’s actually very strong and those are great schools with great outcomes. But it’s only on DCUM where private/boarding school parents and recent grads are trying to make it an Ivy equivalent to assuage their insecurity about it.

Graduate Prospectus is 87% (only slightly behind Cambridge and Oxford, both at 90%)

Entry Standards are 100%- the highest in the UK. Student Satisfaction is 83%- also the highest in the UK. Definitely not viewed behind 5 or 6 other UK schools.

We’ve been over this once, their graduate prospectus score is closer to Cardiff and City St. George’s (ranked 12th and 13th) than it is to Oxford and Cambridge.

Here is everything you need to know about entry standards. They actually arent highest in the UK, you are just seeing a raw Scottish bias score that gets discounted later. This is why Glasgow, Edinburgh, Strathclyde, Dundee, and Aberdeen are also in the raw top 10 for entry standards. From the methodology:

“For the ranking, points derived from Scottish qualifications were reduced by 25% to allow for the fact that the Scottish education system gives more opportunities for students to accumulate points. Doing this provides a fairer comparison with providers who take most of their students from other parts of the UK. But in the published table it is the raw score that is displayed, i.e. before the discount is applied.”

It’s true that student satisfaction is highest. That’s great and not something to be discounted by parents and potential applicants. But that’s about it for being tops.

While the Scottish university's may get a boost, gaining admittance to St Andrews from the UK is still extremely competitive. Students with very competitive A levels get rejected.

I don’t disagree with you. But one can’t just look at the tables and say, “it has the highest entry standards.” It actually doesn’t, and especially not for Americans. Which, again, is totally fine. It’s not a criticism of the school.