Missing Middle travesty in Arlington

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I lean Republican or right on most issues but would love to see missing middle housing in Virginia.

Even though the region has natural beauty living in Virginia felt like living in a massive office park with senseless sprawl, below average transit/transportation, relatively low amounts of public greenspace.

Very underwhelming area considered Arlington is 1 mile outside of the capital of the most powerful nation on Earth.

+1. I wish we could cut through partisan noise and have a coalition of people who see that dense housing and urban development are a good thing. There are some philosophical differences about the role of government (central planning of development vs more organic) but you and me both see that the NIMBY mindset is not working.

Why do people assume that increasingly density will lead to lower housing prices? DC has been getting more dense for decades. No one tears down a condo building to build a single family home. It would seem that, as supply goes up, so does demand, which means prices just keep going up.

Increasing supply won’t lower housing prices.

But increasing supply of housing options that are less expensive than $$$$ SFHs increases the supply of less expensive options. Duh.

I think you're missing the point. Increase them all you want. It doesnt mean they're going to remain less expensive. It could make them much more expensive.

Think of it this way: The more people who live in a given area, the more businesses will want to be there because they want a big pool of potential customers. The more businesses move into an area, the more people will want to live there. Which leads to more businesses wanting to move there. Which leads to more people wanting to live there. Which leads to more businesses, etc etc etc.

In that scenario, a one bedroom condo will cost a fortune (see: New York City)

Lol NYC is not a good example of housing production obviously.

Look to Tokyo - they create TONS of housing and hence it is affordable: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/11/opinion/editorials/tokyo-housing.html

Y'all are obsessed with supply and completely ignore demand. You need both to arrive at a price. There's five million people in the DMV. Don't you think there's literally millions of people who would like to live in Arlington and have a nice short commute and live in a nice community with great schools? If you don't built enough supply to accommodate the demand (and you can't), then prices will only go up. Affordable housing in Arlington will never, ever happen, no matter what the government does.

I literally just posted on how Tokyo did that. In the US it is also well known that cities like Houston do a much better job.

It is well known that Houston friggin blows, and that referring to how foreign cities supposedly did something or other sounds a lot like talking about your super hot girlfriend in Canada that no one has ever met.

Sure, that’s why Houston has massive population growth …

It also has massive, Earth-destroying sprawl.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I lean Republican or right on most issues but would love to see missing middle housing in Virginia.

Even though the region has natural beauty living in Virginia felt like living in a massive office park with senseless sprawl, below average transit/transportation, relatively low amounts of public greenspace.

Very underwhelming area considered Arlington is 1 mile outside of the capital of the most powerful nation on Earth.

+1. I wish we could cut through partisan noise and have a coalition of people who see that dense housing and urban development are a good thing. There are some philosophical differences about the role of government (central planning of development vs more organic) but you and me both see that the NIMBY mindset is not working.

Why do people assume that increasingly density will lead to lower housing prices? DC has been getting more dense for decades. No one tears down a condo building to build a single family home. It would seem that, as supply goes up, so does demand, which means prices just keep going up.

Increasing supply won’t lower housing prices.

But increasing supply of housing options that are less expensive than $$$$ SFHs increases the supply of less expensive options. Duh.

I think you're missing the point. Increase them all you want. It doesnt mean they're going to remain less expensive. It could make them much more expensive.

Think of it this way: The more people who live in a given area, the more businesses will want to be there because they want a big pool of potential customers. The more businesses move into an area, the more people will want to live there. Which leads to more businesses wanting to move there. Which leads to more people wanting to live there. Which leads to more businesses, etc etc etc.

In that scenario, a one bedroom condo will cost a fortune (see: New York City)

Lol NYC is not a good example of housing production obviously.

Look to Tokyo - they create TONS of housing and hence it is affordable: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/11/opinion/editorials/tokyo-housing.html

Y'all are obsessed with supply and completely ignore demand. You need both to arrive at a price. There's five million people in the DMV. Don't you think there's literally millions of people who would like to live in Arlington and have a nice short commute and live in a nice community with great schools? If you don't built enough supply to accommodate the demand (and you can't), then prices will only go up. Affordable housing in Arlington will never, ever happen, no matter what the government does.

I literally just posted on how Tokyo did that. In the US it is also well known that cities like Houston do a much better job.

It is well known that Houston friggin blows, and that referring to how foreign cities supposedly did something or other sounds a lot like talking about your super hot girlfriend in Canada that no one has ever met.

Sure, that’s why Houston has massive population growth …

It also has massive, Earth-destroying sprawl.

So the answer to that is what, more NIMBYism in Arlington?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish Arlington had passed a law that would trigger missing middle housing once it was allowed in other nearby counties. Arlington is too small to impact housing prices on its own. But if DC, Fairfax and MoCo also made changes, maybe as could get somewhere.

It wasn’t meant to lower prices.

Correct, the purpose was to incentivize middle-sized housing in Arlington, not to lower prices in the DC metro

That's not how "missing middle" was sold by Arlington Co and the city of Alexandria to the public, but you knew that already. Both municipalities, which are in lock step with each other, pushed the agenda that upzoning was necessary in order to pursue missing middle housing which if allowed would increase the housing supply and eventually lower prices. What occurred, particularly in Alexandria, was the razing of SFHs and the construction of multiple luxury units. You can do research but my immediate reactions are the 4 THs next to the Lexus dealership and the attached 2 THs on Commonwealth across from Duncan library, both in DR and both discussed on DCUM in prior MM threads. We are talking units priced at over $2 million. You are concerned about households that can plop down $2+ million?

As for Houston, they have a huge infrastructure problem due to massive overdevelopment and density, in particular when it comes to water (wastewater/sewage). Hurricane Harvey flooding was a direct consequence of this. This is not a theory. Smart development, whether in the name of missing middle or otherwise, needs infrastructure support (roads, sewage, wastewater, schools, EMTs). Typically in negotiations with municipalities for approving permits, the result is proffers where the developer agrees to pay for infrastructure improvement. However, the infrastructure support massive developments actually need would be cost prohibitive for the developer and the result is that the remaining infrastructure is poor, flooding occurs, roads and schools are overcrowded, etc. This is poor urban planning and rarely gets the attention it deserves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They lost in court. They were wrong. You can’t complain that the “democrat government won’t accept that they lost” when they didn’t actually lose. You are outnumbered and people want density. Go move to WV if you want zero contact with your neighbors.

They are not wrong.

People living in SFHs to NOT want density.

You want more contact with your neighbors? Have them build this crap IN YOUR YARD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish Arlington had passed a law that would trigger missing middle housing once it was allowed in other nearby counties. Arlington is too small to impact housing prices on its own. But if DC, Fairfax and MoCo also made changes, maybe as could get somewhere.

It wasn’t meant to lower prices.

Correct, the purpose was to incentivize middle-sized housing in Arlington, not to lower prices in the DC metro

That's not how "missing middle" was sold by Arlington Co and the city of Alexandria to the public, but you knew that already. Both municipalities, which are in lock step with each other, pushed the agenda that upzoning was necessary in order to pursue missing middle housing which if allowed would increase the housing supply and eventually lower prices. What occurred, particularly in Alexandria, was the razing of SFHs and the construction of multiple luxury units. You can do research but my immediate reactions are the 4 THs next to the Lexus dealership and the attached 2 THs on Commonwealth across from Duncan library, both in DR and both discussed on DCUM in prior MM threads. We are talking units priced at over $2 million. You are concerned about households that can plop down $2+ million?

As for Houston, they have a huge infrastructure problem due to massive overdevelopment and density, in particular when it comes to water (wastewater/sewage). Hurricane Harvey flooding was a direct consequence of this. This is not a theory. Smart development, whether in the name of missing middle or otherwise, needs infrastructure support (roads, sewage, wastewater, schools, EMTs). Typically in negotiations with municipalities for approving permits, the result is proffers where the developer agrees to pay for infrastructure improvement. However, the infrastructure support massive developments actually need would be cost prohibitive for the developer and the result is that the remaining infrastructure is poor, flooding occurs, roads and schools are overcrowded, etc. This is poor urban planning and rarely gets the attention it deserves.

Liar. Stop making up crap to fit your narrative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They lost in court. They were wrong. You can’t complain that the “democrat government won’t accept that they lost” when they didn’t actually lose. You are outnumbered and people want density. Go move to WV if you want zero contact with your neighbors.

They are not wrong.

People living in SFHs to NOT want density.

You want more contact with your neighbors? Have them build this crap IN YOUR YARD.

False. I live in a SFH and support MM, as do many of my neighbors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband and I have good friends who stepped up and sued Arlington County to stop them from allowing multiple units on single family home lots. They heroically fought the County and WON!!!

Today they texted to say an appellate court overturned the decision!!! She says Arlington is ready to allow this construction within the week.

It’s awful and so discouraging when citizens step up to protect and preserve the character of their neighborhood, and then lose because the Democrat government won’t accept that they have lost. The neighbors should not be expected to litigate again and again. They won and it’s overreach for the appellate court not even living in Arlington to Bigfoot their way in.

How many white "modern farmhouse" McMansions have popped up in her neighborhood that she HASN'T protested? How exactly are those monstrosities preserving the character of her neighborhood? Oh they're not, they're just preserving the WEALTH of her neighborhood. Snobs.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They lost in court. They were wrong. You can’t complain that the “democrat government won’t accept that they lost” when they didn’t actually lose. You are outnumbered and people want density. Go move to WV if you want zero contact with your neighbors.

They are not wrong.

People living in SFHs to NOT want density.

You want more contact with your neighbors? Have them build this crap IN YOUR YARD.

False. I live in a SFH and support MM, as do many of my neighbors.

I'm not opposed to duplexes or THs that have appropriate parking and setbacks and are supported by water and sewer infrastructure. I am opposed to 6-plexes of one bedroom apartments that will entirely rely on street parking. There are a ton of 1 bedroom apartments in this county, there is no shortage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They lost in court. They were wrong. You can’t complain that the “democrat government won’t accept that they lost” when they didn’t actually lose. You are outnumbered and people want density. Go move to WV if you want zero contact with your neighbors.

They are not wrong.

People living in SFHs to NOT want density.

You want more contact with your neighbors? Have them build this crap IN YOUR YARD.

False. I live in a SFH and support MM, as do many of my neighbors.

I'm not opposed to duplexes or THs that have appropriate parking and setbacks and are supported by water and sewer infrastructure. I am opposed to 6-plexes of one bedroom apartments that will entirely rely on street parking. There are a ton of 1 bedroom apartments in this county, there is no shortage.

Sewers!!! You sound like that hysterical SB candidate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They lost in court. They were wrong. You can’t complain that the “democrat government won’t accept that they lost” when they didn’t actually lose. You are outnumbered and people want density. Go move to WV if you want zero contact with your neighbors.

They are not wrong.

People living in SFHs to NOT want density.

You want more contact with your neighbors? Have them build this crap IN YOUR YARD.

False. I live in a SFH and support MM, as do many of my neighbors.

I'm not opposed to duplexes or THs that have appropriate parking and setbacks and are supported by water and sewer infrastructure. I am opposed to 6-plexes of one bedroom apartments that will entirely rely on street parking. There are a ton of 1 bedroom apartments in this county, there is no shortage.

Sewers!!! You sound like that hysterical SB candidate.

Have they done a study, though?

Also, please explain why we need buildings with 4-6 one bedroom apartments and no off street parking. What shortage is this addressing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband and I have good friends who stepped up and sued Arlington County to stop them from allowing multiple units on single family home lots. They heroically fought the County and WON!!!

Today they texted to say an appellate court overturned the decision!!! She says Arlington is ready to allow this construction within the week.

It’s awful and so discouraging when citizens step up to protect and preserve the character of their neighborhood, and then lose because the Democrat government won’t accept that they have lost. The neighbors should not be expected to litigate again and again. They won and it’s overreach for the appellate court not even living in Arlington to Bigfoot their way in.

How many white "modern farmhouse" McMansions have popped up in her neighborhood that she HASN'T protested? How exactly are those monstrosities preserving the character of her neighborhood? Oh they're not, they're just preserving the WEALTH of her neighborhood. Snobs.

Exactly.

Well, at least you both admit that it will have an adverse effect on the property values of SFH in areas of zoning deregulation.

Baby steps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They lost in court. They were wrong. You can’t complain that the “democrat government won’t accept that they lost” when they didn’t actually lose. You are outnumbered and people want density. Go move to WV if you want zero contact with your neighbors.

They are not wrong.

People living in SFHs to NOT want density.

You want more contact with your neighbors? Have them build this crap IN YOUR YARD.

False. I live in a SFH and support MM, as do many of my neighbors.

I'm not opposed to duplexes or THs that have appropriate parking and setbacks and are supported by water and sewer infrastructure. I am opposed to 6-plexes of one bedroom apartments that will entirely rely on street parking. There are a ton of 1 bedroom apartments in this county, there is no shortage.

Sewers!!! You sound like that hysterical SB candidate.

Have they done a study, though?

Also, please explain why we need buildings with 4-6 one bedroom apartments and no off street parking. What shortage is this addressing?

The YIMBYs hate any type of planning that contradicts the cult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They lost in court. They were wrong. You can’t complain that the “democrat government won’t accept that they lost” when they didn’t actually lose. You are outnumbered and people want density. Go move to WV if you want zero contact with your neighbors.

They are not wrong.

People living in SFHs to NOT want density.

You want more contact with your neighbors? Have them build this crap IN YOUR YARD.

False. I live in a SFH and support MM, as do many of my neighbors.

I'm not opposed to duplexes or THs that have appropriate parking and setbacks and are supported by water and sewer infrastructure. I am opposed to 6-plexes of one bedroom apartments that will entirely rely on street parking. There are a ton of 1 bedroom apartments in this county, there is no shortage.

Sewers!!! You sound like that hysterical SB candidate.

Have they done a study, though?

Also, please explain why we need buildings with 4-6 one bedroom apartments and no off street parking. What shortage is this addressing?

So it forces SFH owners to clear out the boxes of magazines that currently occupy their garage so that they can park their car there instead of the street.

No one wants to have to deal with that junk after they die.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish Arlington had passed a law that would trigger missing middle housing once it was allowed in other nearby counties. Arlington is too small to impact housing prices on its own. But if DC, Fairfax and MoCo also made changes, maybe as could get somewhere.

It wasn’t meant to lower prices.

Correct, the purpose was to incentivize middle-sized housing in Arlington, not to lower prices in the DC metro

That's not how "missing middle" was sold by Arlington Co and the city of Alexandria to the public, but you knew that already. Both municipalities, which are in lock step with each other, pushed the agenda that upzoning was necessary in order to pursue missing middle housing which if allowed would increase the housing supply and eventually lower prices. What occurred, particularly in Alexandria, was the razing of SFHs and the construction of multiple luxury units. You can do research but my immediate reactions are the 4 THs next to the Lexus dealership and the attached 2 THs on Commonwealth across from Duncan library, both in DR and both discussed on DCUM in prior MM threads. We are talking units priced at over $2 million. You are concerned about households that can plop down $2+ million?

As for Houston, they have a huge infrastructure problem due to massive overdevelopment and density, in particular when it comes to water (wastewater/sewage). Hurricane Harvey flooding was a direct consequence of this. This is not a theory. Smart development, whether in the name of missing middle or otherwise, needs infrastructure support (roads, sewage, wastewater, schools, EMTs). Typically in negotiations with municipalities for approving permits, the result is proffers where the developer agrees to pay for infrastructure improvement. However, the infrastructure support massive developments actually need would be cost prohibitive for the developer and the result is that the remaining infrastructure is poor, flooding occurs, roads and schools are overcrowded, etc. This is poor urban planning and rarely gets the attention it deserves.

Liar. Stop making up crap to fit your narrative.

I don't have a narrative; I work in urban planning and housing for decades. I am also not a liar; not sure why you are so angry or ill informed or whether you are a troll. But in response to your "liar" accusation re whether Alexandria and Arlington in fact did claim up zoning/elimination of SFH zoning was for increasing housing supply to decrease prices, here is one WaPo article (with a gifted link, you're welcome, anyone can read this) covering the Alexandria City Council hearing on this very topic, which specifically states that the housing for all initiative purpose IS TO LOWER HOUSING COSTS. Here is the link https://wapo.st/44rtoVY

Within that article, there are links to prior articles on this topic re Arlington and Alexandria. So instead of knee jerk reactions that make you sound like a lunatic, perhaps take 5 minutes to get yourself informed and educated on the topic. You are rude and you are wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband and I have good friends who stepped up and sued Arlington County to stop them from allowing multiple units on single family home lots. They heroically fought the County and WON!!!

Today they texted to say an appellate court overturned the decision!!! She says Arlington is ready to allow this construction within the week.

It’s awful and so discouraging when citizens step up to protect and preserve the character of their neighborhood, and then lose because the Democrat government won’t accept that they have lost. The neighbors should not be expected to litigate again and again. They won and it’s overreach for the appellate court not even living in Arlington to Bigfoot their way in.

How many white "modern farmhouse" McMansions have popped up in her neighborhood that she HASN'T protested? How exactly are those monstrosities preserving the character of her neighborhood? Oh they're not, they're just preserving the WEALTH of her neighborhood. Snobs.

Exactly.

Well, at least you both admit that it will have an adverse effect on the property values of SFH in areas of zoning deregulation.

Baby steps.

Nobody said that, dickhead. The HHI of your neighbors isn't the same thing as your property value.