Getting into Law School
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Anonymous
The LSAC used to publish information on the top 240 law school application feeder undergraduate schools. This included LSAT and GPA. It showed top undergraduate schools not surprising produced a higher number of applicants with top scores and GPAs. You can see how much higher the average applicant LSAT score was at Yale vs. say Berkeley below: Yale–167.50 Harvard–167.40 Princeton–166.10 UChicago–165.98 Stanford–165.72 Dartmouth College–165.67 Columbia–165.00 Duke–164.97 UPenn–164.58 Tufts University–164.48 Brown–164.31 Northwestern–164.30 WashUStL–164.05 Georgetown–163.48 Vanderbilt–163.45 Rice–163.44 Amherst College–162.79 Notre Dame–162.75 Cornell–162.65 McGill (Canada)–162.64 Wesleyan–162.61 Johns Hopkins–161.82 NYU–161.75 College of William & Mary–161.18 Univ. of Virginia–160.84 Univ. of British Columbia–160.76 Boston College–160.70 Emory–160.64 Michigan–160.48 Brandeis–160.30 Colgate–160.23 UCal-Berkeley–159.44 |
Anonymous
Again, students at top undergrads tend to have higher test scores than students at lower-ranked schools. That is mere correlation and is a surprise to no one. The undergraduate institution does not cause its students to have high LSAT scores. |
Anonymous
| I am a state school to Ivy+ LS to big law partner who is also involved in firm recruiting. My experience with law school applications is stale at this point but from a law firm recruiting perspective undergrad school does not matter one iota. Other than that, I suppose, a double Harvard grad is very very impressive. But even that candidate doesn’t necessarily get the offer over another HLS grad from a different undergraduate school, all else equal. |
Anonymous
I agree. That was my point as well. Yale, although much smaller than Berkeley, has a much higher percentage of students graduating with high LSAT and GPAs. T |
Anonymous
Confirms Berkeley’s lackluster undergrad population compared to ivy/elite, and even below WM and UVa. |
Anonymous
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Anonymous
It may be true that the undergrad institution does not cause its students to have high LSAT scores. The point though is that the prestige of the undergrad institution is a factor, especially at the very top law schools (and I'd also say it's a factor for various prestigious legal jobs). So it's more than just correlation. |
Anonymous
No, the point is that law school admission is driven not by undergrad prestige, but by LSAT and gpa. LSAT and gpa are driven by the individual. Individuals at highly selective private undergrads proportionately have higher LSAT and gpa than is typical of large state schools, which have a much wider range of academic stats overall among their students. Yale is arguably the only law school that gives the appearance of caring about undergrad prestige and has a small law school class. The people I know who went to top law schools, including Harvard (which has a large law school class), attended schools ranked T60 to T80 privates and beyond, as well as to numerous state flagships. UIUC, U Kentucky, University of Kansas, and on and on. And yes, they do go on to clerk for S. Ct. and are employed in BigLaw. |
Anonymous
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... No, the point is that law school admission is driven not by undergrad prestige, but by LSAT and gpa. LSAT and gpa are driven by the individual. Individuals at highly selective private undergrads proportionately have higher LSAT and gpa than is typical of large state schools, which have a much wider range of academic stats overall among their students. Yale is arguably the only law school that gives the appearance of caring about undergrad prestige and has a small law school class. The people I know who went to top law schools, including Harvard (which has a large law school class), attended schools ranked T60 to T80 privates and beyond, as well as to numerous state flagships. UIUC, U Kentucky, University of Kansas, and on and on. And yes, they do go on to clerk for S. Ct. and are employed in BigLaw. Who is arguing that law school admissions are "driven" by undergrad prestige? Obviously LSAT and GPA are "driven by the individual." You're attacking a paper tiger. The point is that undergrad institution is a factor, especially at the very top law schools. Look at Stanford's students (in addition to Yale). Not many non-elite colleges represented. Now there are undoubtedly various reasons why elite college applicants have an advantage. For example, they may have access to more prestigious jobs, research opportunities, awards, fellowships, etc., that make the difference in law school admissions. It's crazy to suggest that Yale/Stanford (land likely other schools) are indifferent between a 3.95/175 applicant from HUG and one from the University of the Pacific (for example). And, of course, "BigLaw" employs plenty of people from low ranked undergrads, but undergrad prestige definitely plays a role in hiring for uber-prestigious legal jobs. |
Anonymous
I'm a NP and also think you are far overselling the benefit of undergrad prestige. Everyone knows that going to an elite undergrad has as much to do with privilege and parental support as intelligence. Really. There are very smart and driven students who can get into an elite school but don't attend or even apply because of finances (see Donut Hole applicants). There are also lots of very smart and driven students who have life circumstances that knock them out of contention for elite undergrad admissions, but who demonstrate their ability during undergrad (e.g., immigrants, foster kids, those whose parents were divorcing while the were in HS, late bloomers, etc). Law schools love to recruit a class with a diversity of life experiences and have no interest in packing their class with only students from elite institutions. A silver spoon in your mouth doesn't make for a compelling life story. -someone who got into a T10 for undergrad, attended a no-name Tier 4 because of finances, but who had their pick of top law schools, BigLaw jobs and prestigious clerkships |
Anonymous
These threads always bring out the mommies. Listen to the lawyers and law school admissions folks, not the mommies. |
Anonymous
+1 That idiot did not understand what correlation v causation is, and was babbling on about it anyways. |
Anonymous
I ended up in tax. You need real math skills for much of it. |
Anonymous
This is a parent board where parents ask other parents questions. It’s also an anonymous board where people can pretend to be whatever they want. Maybe talk to a therapist about overcoming your misogyny. |
Anonymous
+1 I handled HP recruiting for a DOJ litigating division fairly recently and I don't think I so much as glanced at what school any candidate attended for undergrad. |