Getting into Law School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Law school admissions is getting more unpredictable like college admissions.

There was a time it was mainly your GPA and LSAT. This year was extremely competitive. I advise students and having a score in the 170s and a high GPA does not guarantee T14 anymore.

The ones who did the best in the process have close to a 4.0, scores in the 170s, at least a year of work experience after college and preferably more, academic prizes or significant leadership or awards in college, recommendations that are outstanding. Strength of undergraduate institution matters more than you think. I have to counsel students that just because they have a high GPA does not mean as much if your degree was online or at a school most people have never heard of.

They are more likely to go deep in the class for an Ivy or top 20 than take from a lower tier university outside of top 50 unless you are at the top of your class. Going to a huge undergrad can disadvantage you by not getting to know your professors well and being so big that there are so many applying from your school.

Meh. My law school loved that I went to a school most people have never heard of -- because they'd never had anyone from it before. They considered it to be something that added to the diversity of the class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a lawyer. I didn’t not go to a. Elite school. I make 15x what most Harvard grads make. Seriously. Go to a good school, work hard and kill it.

Very solid reasoning: It doesn't matter where you go to law school because this guy is rich and he didn't go to an elite law school.

Obviously this guy didn't get rich through logical reasoning, or anything intellectually demanding. Let me guess, you're a very successful personal injury attorney?

Let me guess ... you are not an attorney at all? And yet feel the need to run your mouth here anyway? So ... you have a "pre-law" kid? Or dated a lawyer for two weeks after your divorce? Something like that?

Take your tone elsewhere, and let the lawyers talk about lawyering.

-- a lawyer who is not PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Law school admissions is getting more unpredictable like college admissions.

There was a time it was mainly your GPA and LSAT. This year was extremely competitive. I advise students and having a score in the 170s and a high GPA does not guarantee T14 anymore.

The ones who did the best in the process have close to a 4.0, scores in the 170s, at least a year of work experience after college and preferably more, academic prizes or significant leadership or awards in college, recommendations that are outstanding. Strength of undergraduate institution matters more than you think. I have to counsel students that just because they have a high GPA does not mean as much if your degree was online or at a school most people have never heard of.

They are more likely to go deep in the class for an Ivy or top 20 than take from a lower tier university outside of top 50 unless you are at the top of your class. Going to a huge undergrad can disadvantage you by not getting to know your professors well and being so big that there are so many applying from your school.

Meh. My law school loved that I went to a school most people have never heard of -- because they'd never had anyone from it before. They considered it to be something that added to the diversity of the class.

As many law schools do. The PP sounds weird and out of touch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Law school admissions is getting more unpredictable like college admissions.

There was a time it was mainly your GPA and LSAT. This year was extremely competitive. I advise students and having a score in the 170s and a high GPA does not guarantee T14 anymore.

The ones who did the best in the process have close to a 4.0, scores in the 170s, at least a year of work experience after college and preferably more, academic prizes or significant leadership or awards in college, recommendations that are outstanding. Strength of undergraduate institution matters more than you think. I have to counsel students that just because they have a high GPA does not mean as much if your degree was online or at a school most people have never heard of.

They are more likely to go deep in the class for an Ivy or top 20 than take from a lower tier university outside of top 50 unless you are at the top of your class. Going to a huge undergrad can disadvantage you by not getting to know your professors well and being so big that there are so many applying from your school.

Meh. My law school loved that I went to a school most people have never heard of -- because they'd never had anyone from it before. They considered it to be something that added to the diversity of the class.

As many law schools do. The PP sounds weird and out of touch.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a lawyer. I didn’t not go to a. Elite school. I make 15x what most Harvard grads make. Seriously. Go to a good school, work hard and kill it.

Very solid reasoning: It doesn't matter where you go to law school because this guy is rich and he didn't go to an elite law school.

Obviously this guy didn't get rich through logical reasoning, or anything intellectually demanding. Let me guess, you're a very successful personal injury attorney?

Let me guess ... you are not an attorney at all? And yet feel the need to run your mouth here anyway? So ... you have a "pre-law" kid? Or dated a lawyer for two weeks after your divorce? Something like that?

Take your tone elsewhere, and let the lawyers talk about lawyering.

-- a lawyer who is not PP.

Maybe you are a lawyer. You managed to write an entire paragraph without saying anything of substance. The earlier "rich" lawyer used embarrassingly poor logic and got called out. Your post did absolutely nothing to rehabilitate the "rich" lawyer. So maybe you should take a hike (and you didn't say anything about "lawyering").

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP: Is going to law school still a good idea given that many people seem to think that AI will significantly impact the legal profession?

Have you see the kind of BS AI produces? AI is not as great as tech bros want you to believe.

AI is absolutely incapable of producing thoughtful legal analysis. It doesn't even produce statements of black letter law based on actual cases.

[Anonymous]

Most lawyers are useless. The law isn’t difficult. Work hard, have common sense and listen to your clients.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP: Is going to law school still a good idea given that many people seem to think that AI will significantly impact the legal profession?

Have you see the kind of BS AI produces? AI is not as great as tech bros want you to believe.

AI is absolutely incapable of producing thoughtful legal analysis. It doesn't even produce statements of black letter law based on actual cases.

AI will get better at helping the writing process, but human lawyers will still be needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Law school admissions is getting more unpredictable like college admissions.

There was a time it was mainly your GPA and LSAT. This year was extremely competitive. I advise students and having a score in the 170s and a high GPA does not guarantee T14 anymore.

The ones who did the best in the process have close to a 4.0, scores in the 170s, at least a year of work experience after college and preferably more, academic prizes or significant leadership or awards in college, recommendations that are outstanding. Strength of undergraduate institution matters more than you think. I have to counsel students that just because they have a high GPA does not mean as much if your degree was online or at a school most people have never heard of.

They are more likely to go deep in the class for an Ivy or top 20 than take from a lower tier university outside of top 50 unless you are at the top of your class. Going to a huge undergrad can disadvantage you by not getting to know your professors well and being so big that there are so many applying from your school.

can confirm, based on law school data from my kid's T10. Students with around 3.7-3.8, which is below average there, can go to the bottom of T14 otherwise go to next tier excellent law such as WashU. The 3.9+ kids get into multiple T14s and over a dozen every year go to T3. However the former usually has 165+ and the latter has 172+. It may not be the university itself as much as the fact that even a below average student at one of those schools is quite likely to be on par with the very top of a below-T50.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Law school admissions is getting more unpredictable like college admissions.

There was a time it was mainly your GPA and LSAT. This year was extremely competitive. I advise students and having a score in the 170s and a high GPA does not guarantee T14 anymore.

The ones who did the best in the process have close to a 4.0, scores in the 170s, at least a year of work experience after college and preferably more, academic prizes or significant leadership or awards in college, recommendations that are outstanding. Strength of undergraduate institution matters more than you think. I have to counsel students that just because they have a high GPA does not mean as much if your degree was online or at a school most people have never heard of.

They are more likely to go deep in the class for an Ivy or top 20 than take from a lower tier university outside of top 50 unless you are at the top of your class. Going to a huge undergrad can disadvantage you by not getting to know your professors well and being so big that there are so many applying from your school.

can confirm, based on law school data from my kid's T10. Students with around 3.7-3.8, which is below average there, can go to the bottom of T14 otherwise go to next tier excellent law such as WashU. The 3.9+ kids get into multiple T14s and over a dozen every year go to T3. However the former usually has 165+ and the latter has 172+. It may not be the university itself as much as the fact that even a below average student at one of those schools is quite likely to be on par with the very top of a below-T50.

If you went from a top 10 to a law school below the top 14 that would say volumes about your undergrad accomplishments - and not in a good way. Better to go to a state school and land a top 14 (or even better a top 8) which is very doable and looks so much better on a resume.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Law school admissions is getting more unpredictable like college admissions.

There was a time it was mainly your GPA and LSAT. This year was extremely competitive. I advise students and having a score in the 170s and a high GPA does not guarantee T14 anymore.

The ones who did the best in the process have close to a 4.0, scores in the 170s, at least a year of work experience after college and preferably more, academic prizes or significant leadership or awards in college, recommendations that are outstanding. Strength of undergraduate institution matters more than you think. I have to counsel students that just because they have a high GPA does not mean as much if your degree was online or at a school most people have never heard of.

They are more likely to go deep in the class for an Ivy or top 20 than take from a lower tier university outside of top 50 unless you are at the top of your class. Going to a huge undergrad can disadvantage you by not getting to know your professors well and being so big that there are so many applying from your school.

can confirm, based on law school data from my kid's T10. Students with around 3.7-3.8, which is below average there, can go to the bottom of T14 otherwise go to next tier excellent law such as WashU. The 3.9+ kids get into multiple T14s and over a dozen every year go to T3. However the former usually has 165+ and the latter has 172+. It may not be the university itself as much as the fact that even a below average student at one of those schools is quite likely to be on par with the very top of a below-T50.

If you went from a top 10 to a law school below the top 14 that would say volumes about your undergrad accomplishments - and not in a good way. Better to go to a state school and land a top 14 (or even better a top 8) which is very doable and looks so much better on a resume.

I'm not sure that is true. I think a prestigious undergrad still matters, although obviously much less than the law school. I've seen situations where, for example, Harvard undergrad helped quite a bit. And, of course, going from a state school to a top 14 is "very doable," but the vast majority of people are unable to do it. Most people from state undergrads go to non-elite law schools (which is perfectly fine, btw).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Law school admissions is getting more unpredictable like college admissions.

There was a time it was mainly your GPA and LSAT. This year was extremely competitive. I advise students and having a score in the 170s and a high GPA does not guarantee T14 anymore.

The ones who did the best in the process have close to a 4.0, scores in the 170s, at least a year of work experience after college and preferably more, academic prizes or significant leadership or awards in college, recommendations that are outstanding. Strength of undergraduate institution matters more than you think. I have to counsel students that just because they have a high GPA does not mean as much if your degree was online or at a school most people have never heard of.

They are more likely to go deep in the class for an Ivy or top 20 than take from a lower tier university outside of top 50 unless you are at the top of your class. Going to a huge undergrad can disadvantage you by not getting to know your professors well and being so big that there are so many applying from your school.

can confirm, based on law school data from my kid's T10. Students with around 3.7-3.8, which is below average there, can go to the bottom of T14 otherwise go to next tier excellent law such as WashU. The 3.9+ kids get into multiple T14s and over a dozen every year go to T3. However the former usually has 165+ and the latter has 172+. It may not be the university itself as much as the fact that even a below average student at one of those schools is quite likely to be on par with the very top of a below-T50.

If you went from a top 10 to a law school below the top 14 that would say volumes about your undergrad accomplishments - and not in a good way. Better to go to a state school and land a top 14 (or even better a top 8) which is very doable and looks so much better on a resume.

I'm not sure that is true. I think a prestigious undergrad still matters, although obviously much less than the law school. I've seen situations where, for example, Harvard undergrad helped quite a bit. And, of course, going from a state school to a top 14 is "very doable," but the vast majority of people are unable to do it. Most people from state undergrads go to non-elite law schools (which is perfectly fine, btw).

Correlation is not causation. Going from a state school to a T14 is doable when one has the GPA and LSAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Law school admissions is getting more unpredictable like college admissions.

There was a time it was mainly your GPA and LSAT. This year was extremely competitive. I advise students and having a score in the 170s and a high GPA does not guarantee T14 anymore.

The ones who did the best in the process have close to a 4.0, scores in the 170s, at least a year of work experience after college and preferably more, academic prizes or significant leadership or awards in college, recommendations that are outstanding. Strength of undergraduate institution matters more than you think. I have to counsel students that just because they have a high GPA does not mean as much if your degree was online or at a school most people have never heard of.

They are more likely to go deep in the class for an Ivy or top 20 than take from a lower tier university outside of top 50 unless you are at the top of your class. Going to a huge undergrad can disadvantage you by not getting to know your professors well and being so big that there are so many applying from your school.

Meh. My law school loved that I went to a school most people have never heard of -- because they'd never had anyone from it before. They considered it to be something that added to the diversity of the class.

As many law schools do. The PP sounds weird and out of touch.

Right, because you went to law school 30 years ago and think your experience is relevant now.

Go look up who goes to Harvard Law and Yale Law these days and see any names of schools you haven't heard of.

[Anonymous]

Hi I am a lawyer that did not go to top 14. I have two kids going to law school next year. One to a top 14. Other to a top 4 or top 6 depending on the ranking.

So the absolute most important thing in addition to GPA and LSAT is a year (two is better). At the top law schools, 70 plus percent take time off and work. The game has come down to employment and proof of concept with a job post undergrad seems to be that proof.

On Reddit for law school admissions, so many kids posted their results and the ones with work experience seemed to fare much better. Basically, some kids with high GPAs and LSATs were getting shut out if they were applying from undergraduate. They are referred to as 'KJD"--straight through from Kindergarten to Law School.

In my era, 30 years ago, it was reversed--most went "KJD" but now it has changed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All this school “selectivity” stuff makes me sick. Most of these people have no clue. In the real world all kinds of people from all kinds of schools have law and other jobs pulling down $2-4 mil a year. My guess is that these know it alls on this site aren’t doing that.

No, they aren’t. Very few lawyers pull in this kind of money, and if they do it’s because they are very good at bringing in business not because they are law nerds.

Like this guy

https://phillyslipandfallguys.com/

You can make a lot as an ambulance chaser….but can you look yourself in the mirror?