Federal Govt an Artificial Job Market? Admin Changes, Private Sector Adjusts—Why Not Train for Portable Skills?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an example, I work for a science agency -- I work with my colleagues to understand what the science priorities are (as identified by the scientific community), evaluate proposals, oversee awards etc. I had a thriving lab but decided to make the jump for personal reasons and the fact that I believed in the mission. Sure, I could go back to academia but I gave up my tenured position years ago, have published to some extent but not enough to keep up with academia's requirement (and I'm a rare one that does). I could get into a staff scientist position somewhere (with a very steep paycut) but if the Fed Govt is no longer interested in supporting science, there won't be any such positions left. Philanthropy and the private sector can't support the breadth of research that the government supports.

These are niche positions but they exist because of the system we set up (government support of science goes back to the pre-war days -- Vannevar Bush, The Endless Frontier). Overturning it thoughtlessly just leads to unnecessary pain.

If research isn’t valuable enough for the private sector or philanthropy to fund, then why should the government? Private companies invest heavily in R&D where there’s clear value—pharma giants like Pfizer drive drug discovery, Google and OpenAI lead AI research, and Tesla funds battery advancements. SpaceX has even outpaced NASA in rocket development. The idea that only government can support broad scientific research ignores the fact that industry funds what truly matters.

If certain research fields exist only because of government funding, that raises a real question: is it actually worth researching? Science that provides real-world benefits attracts investment. If no private entity sees enough value to fund it, that’s a sign it might not be essential. Government research priorities shift with politics, and no one is entitled to a permanent job just because a system was built to sustain it decades ago. Scientists, like anyone else, should adapt to changing demand.

Doge troll. Stop feeding them pps!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Federal employees have extremely niche knowledge based on the congressionally mandated functions their offices must carry out. Many are simply irreplaceable. I’m sad for the American people right now.

Is that really true? Why is it that federal employees are supposedly irreplaceable? If their knowledge is so niche that no one outside of the government values it, doesn’t that just mean the government has created a circular system where jobs exist mainly to sustain themselves rather than serving a broader purpose? In the private sector, even the most specialized experts can be replaced or their knowledge can be transferred. Why should government jobs be any different?

If a role is truly valuable, wouldn’t you expect demand for those skills outside of government? In industries like healthcare, engineering, or IT, professionals move between public and private roles all the time because their expertise is needed in both. But if someone’s entire career revolves around understanding a bureaucratic process that only exists within the federal government, maybe that’s a sign the system is bloated rather than essential. If certain functions were really vital to the American people, private industry or state governments would step in to continue that work.

So federal law has no function? Or do you think private industry will continue to follow federal law out of the goodness of their hearts— with no enforcement whatsoever?

Or I suppose you think federal law and regulation is useless. Why have it at all, then. Do you know what kind of country that is? Have you lived in a country like that? I have. I’ve lived in several that have weak or failing central governments. It made me grateful to be from here.

I never said that. I said that if government-funded research isn’t found useful to the private sector, something is wrong. If no one outside of government sees value in it, maybe it’s not as essential as some think.

I don’t know where you got the idea that this is about law enforcement. This discussion is about research—specifically the claim that certain areas of research would never happen without government funding. If a field of study has real value, private industry, universities, or philanthropic organizations will support it. If the only reason a research job exists is because the government created it and no one else would fund it, then maybe that says more about the system than the necessity of the research itself.

There is plenty of research the private sector isn’t interested in funding because it is unlikely to make a lot of money for a particular company. That does not mean it has no value. I’d rather know which of two cancer drugs is more effective, for example, but if they’re made by two different companies only the public sector would fund a trial like that.

You are conflating “value” with “monetary value for a company.” But I suspect you know that, or just don’t care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an example, I work for a science agency -- I work with my colleagues to understand what the science priorities are (as identified by the scientific community), evaluate proposals, oversee awards etc. I had a thriving lab but decided to make the jump for personal reasons and the fact that I believed in the mission. Sure, I could go back to academia but I gave up my tenured position years ago, have published to some extent but not enough to keep up with academia's requirement (and I'm a rare one that does). I could get into a staff scientist position somewhere (with a very steep paycut) but if the Fed Govt is no longer interested in supporting science, there won't be any such positions left. Philanthropy and the private sector can't support the breadth of research that the government supports.

These are niche positions but they exist because of the system we set up (government support of science goes back to the pre-war days -- Vannevar Bush, The Endless Frontier). Overturning it thoughtlessly just leads to unnecessary pain.

If research isn’t valuable enough for the private sector or philanthropy to fund, then why should the government? Private companies invest heavily in R&D where there’s clear value—pharma giants like Pfizer drive drug discovery, Google and OpenAI lead AI research, and Tesla funds battery advancements. SpaceX has even outpaced NASA in rocket development. The idea that only government can support broad scientific research ignores the fact that industry funds what truly matters.

If certain research fields exist only because of government funding, that raises a real question: is it actually worth researching? Science that provides real-world benefits attracts investment. If no private entity sees enough value to fund it, that’s a sign it might not be essential. Government research priorities shift with politics, and no one is entitled to a permanent job just because a system was built to sustain it decades ago. Scientists, like anyone else, should adapt to changing demand.

If you are real, you should know that the internet was created/invented/ through research first by us government employees! It is also well known that much medical research and drugs is first funded by the government. Just two examples ….That is why!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that the federal government seems upset about cutting staff and shifting directions, but is that just because they aren’t used to it?

Today I had to cut half of one manager’s team across multiple departments, letting go of 9 people because of budget and priority changes. They’re all technical staff, and their manager thinks they’re talented. While it’s tough, they’ll almost certainly land something soon since their skills are in demand. In the private sector, this kind of thing happens all the time, and while no one likes it, it’s just part of the reality. We’re giving them 30 days' notice, which is more than enough from a private sector viewpoint. Many companies give nothing, with employees discovering the same day they’re let go. So, it’s interesting to see how differently government workers react to job changes.

Thinking about the fork email, it seems like if I could give those employees 8 months of paid time to look for a job while doing nothing, they’d be thrilled. Is the outrage from the federal side just because government employees aren’t used to these kinds of shifts?

I also talked to a relative in their 70s who works for the government, and they’re actually excited about the deferred resignation deal. From their perspective, getting paid for 8 months without working before retiring is a dream scenario and a once-in-a-lifetime chance.

One thing I’ve noticed is that a lot of government jobs don’t have portable skills like IT or accounting that easily transfer to the private sector. I also see people who spend their entire careers managing government grants, foreign aid, and similar programs. It seems like these jobs exist mainly to process government functions that wouldn’t even need so much administration if the system were more efficient. If that’s the case, shouldn’t employees in these roles be training for portable skills instead of putting all their eggs in the federal government basket?

And if government priorities shift, isn’t it normal for those employees to look elsewhere? If we’re cutting foreign spending or shoring up the border, wouldn’t it make sense for them to move to agencies in demand instead of expecting a lifetime job in a field that changes with each administration?

Like, if a job was focused on managing the Pony Express mail system back in the day, and then new technology made it obsolete, shouldn’t people in those roles have expected that focus to stop instead of assuming they’d do it forever?

Firstly shut up troll. Your "relative" is absolutely made up. Secondly, you realize MANY, MANY of us worked in the private sector and then many many of us return to the private sector, right???? I just cannot with you alls high school level understanding of the way the world works. Or even just america because you certainly have zero understanding of the way the world functions.

Let's keep our discussion respectful and avoid personal attacks. I assure you, my relative is real. They were planning to retire this year but are now considering the deferred resignation program, which offers full pay without work obligations until September 30. Their main concern is whether to respond with "Resign" or "Resign and Retire." According to the Office of Personnel Management's guidance, the choice doesn't affect the outcome, but it might be used for internal metrics.

High school level understanding? Is that some type of boomer Gen X elderly person insult to make it seem that things should be more complicated than they are? Why does everything need to be complicated? I am the generation of TLDR or "this could've been an email." I am all for simplicity, and if it's too complicated, then it needs to be redone. This could've been an email or a Slack message, and don't message me saying "call me" or just "hi."

[Anonymous]

Wait, the troll doesn’t understand the purpose of the public sector because TLDR anything other than Atlas Shrugged when he was 15.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that the federal government seems upset about cutting staff and shifting directions, but is that just because they aren’t used to it?

Today I had to cut half of one manager’s team across multiple departments, letting go of 9 people because of budget and priority changes. They’re all technical staff, and their manager thinks they’re talented. While it’s tough, they’ll almost certainly land something soon since their skills are in demand. In the private sector, this kind of thing happens all the time, and while no one likes it, it’s just part of the reality. We’re giving them 30 days' notice, which is more than enough from a private sector viewpoint. Many companies give nothing, with employees discovering the same day they’re let go. So, it’s interesting to see how differently government workers react to job changes.

Thinking about the fork email, it seems like if I could give those employees 8 months of paid time to look for a job while doing nothing, they’d be thrilled. Is the outrage from the federal side just because government employees aren’t used to these kinds of shifts?

I also talked to a relative in their 70s who works for the government, and they’re actually excited about the deferred resignation deal. From their perspective, getting paid for 8 months without working before retiring is a dream scenario and a once-in-a-lifetime chance.

One thing I’ve noticed is that a lot of government jobs don’t have portable skills like IT or accounting that easily transfer to the private sector. I also see people who spend their entire careers managing government grants, foreign aid, and similar programs. It seems like these jobs exist mainly to process government functions that wouldn’t even need so much administration if the system were more efficient. If that’s the case, shouldn’t employees in these roles be training for portable skills instead of putting all their eggs in the federal government basket?

And if government priorities shift, isn’t it normal for those employees to look elsewhere? If we’re cutting foreign spending or shoring up the border, wouldn’t it make sense for them to move to agencies in demand instead of expecting a lifetime job in a field that changes with each administration?

Like, if a job was focused on managing the Pony Express mail system back in the day, and then new technology made it obsolete, shouldn’t people in those roles have expected that focus to stop instead of assuming they’d do it forever?

Firstly shut up troll. Your "relative" is absolutely made up. Secondly, you realize MANY, MANY of us worked in the private sector and then many many of us return to the private sector, right???? I just cannot with you alls high school level understanding of the way the world works. Or even just america because you certainly have zero understanding of the way the world functions.

Let's keep our discussion respectful and avoid personal attacks. I assure you, my relative is real. They were planning to retire this year but are now considering the deferred resignation program, which offers full pay without work obligations until September 30. Their main concern is whether to respond with "Resign" or "Resign and Retire." According to the Office of Personnel Management's guidance, the choice doesn't affect the outcome, but it might be used for internal metrics.

High school level understanding? Is that some type of boomer Gen X elderly person insult to make it seem that things should be more complicated than they are? Why does everything need to be complicated? I am the generation of TLDR or "this could've been an email." I am all for simplicity, and if it's too complicated, then it needs to be redone. This could've been an email or a Slack message, and don't message me saying "call me" or just "hi."

Ritalin helps with this, hon. It helps you focus long enough to read more than a couple words before you get impatient and distracted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that the federal government seems upset about cutting staff and shifting directions, but is that just because they aren’t used to it?

Today I had to cut half of one manager’s team across multiple departments, letting go of 9 people because of budget and priority changes. They’re all technical staff, and their manager thinks they’re talented. While it’s tough, they’ll almost certainly land something soon since their skills are in demand. In the private sector, this kind of thing happens all the time, and while no one likes it, it’s just part of the reality. We’re giving them 30 days' notice, which is more than enough from a private sector viewpoint. Many companies give nothing, with employees discovering the same day they’re let go. So, it’s interesting to see how differently government workers react to job changes.

Thinking about the fork email, it seems like if I could give those employees 8 months of paid time to look for a job while doing nothing, they’d be thrilled. Is the outrage from the federal side just because government employees aren’t used to these kinds of shifts?

I also talked to a relative in their 70s who works for the government, and they’re actually excited about the deferred resignation deal. From their perspective, getting paid for 8 months without working before retiring is a dream scenario and a once-in-a-lifetime chance.

One thing I’ve noticed is that a lot of government jobs don’t have portable skills like IT or accounting that easily transfer to the private sector. I also see people who spend their entire careers managing government grants, foreign aid, and similar programs. It seems like these jobs exist mainly to process government functions that wouldn’t even need so much administration if the system were more efficient. If that’s the case, shouldn’t employees in these roles be training for portable skills instead of putting all their eggs in the federal government basket?

And if government priorities shift, isn’t it normal for those employees to look elsewhere? If we’re cutting foreign spending or shoring up the border, wouldn’t it make sense for them to move to agencies in demand instead of expecting a lifetime job in a field that changes with each administration?

Like, if a job was focused on managing the Pony Express mail system back in the day, and then new technology made it obsolete, shouldn’t people in those roles have expected that focus to stop instead of assuming they’d do it forever?

Firstly shut up troll. Your "relative" is absolutely made up. Secondly, you realize MANY, MANY of us worked in the private sector and then many many of us return to the private sector, right???? I just cannot with you alls high school level understanding of the way the world works. Or even just america because you certainly have zero understanding of the way the world functions.

Let's keep our discussion respectful and avoid personal attacks. I assure you, my relative is real. They were planning to retire this year but are now considering the deferred resignation program, which offers full pay without work obligations until September 30. Their main concern is whether to respond with "Resign" or "Resign and Retire." According to the Office of Personnel Management's guidance, the choice doesn't affect the outcome, but it might be used for internal metrics.

High school level understanding? Is that some type of boomer Gen X elderly person insult to make it seem that things should be more complicated than they are? Why does everything need to be complicated? I am the generation of TLDR or "this could've been an email." I am all for simplicity, and if it's too complicated, then it needs to be redone. This could've been an email or a Slack message, and don't message me saying "call me" or just "hi."

NP. OP, are you a real person or an AI? If an AI, it’s understandable since you write well and ask good questions that belie a truly horrifying lack of knowledge about the real, 3D world. If you’re human… well, I’m sorry.

The constant comparison of government to business tells me that you fundamentally have no concept of what government is for. The claim that science is of value only if companies would be willing to pay for it tells me that you don’t understand anything about how scientific research is done, or the massive amount of evidence that is published proving that government funding of R&D pays for itself many times over. Please, before you keep pushing back on the posters in this thread (although some of them are a bit impolite), please go learn something about what our government does and why. Your Dunning Kruger is on flagrant display right now.

[Anonymous]

Anyway, my skills are super portable. Fed lawyer and I run a division of lawyers who implement a particular set of laws. It’s essentially corporate compliance. I’ll find a job. But I liked this job, because it actually served a higher purpose than making some rich guys more money.

[Anonymous]

They're job sectors. In the government, it's primary knowledge work. Most private sector employees cannot easily move into government work, particularly at higher levels, because they don't possess the necessary knowledge.

[Anonymous]

I don't understand how people like OP can be so ignorant. Did she not take an Economics 101 class in college? I'd recommend she google the term "market failure" as a starting point.

Without government, we wouldn't have things like the interstate highway system, law enforcement officers, or public parks. If the only medical research is done by private entities, we'd have endless funds going to research erectile dysfunction and virtually nothing going to devastating conditions like Huntington's disease and ALS, because those conditions are comparatively rare and harder to cure.

I'm an AUSA. I think the work I do prosecuting those who violently victimize others and exploit children is important. The only analogue in the private sector is low/medium-end criminal defense work. I might be able to take my litigation skills to a firm, but I've spent so much of my career in the criminal law world that I'm not sure how attractive I'd be to a firm doing civil litigation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They're job sectors. In the government, it's primary knowledge work. Most private sector employees cannot easily move into government work, particularly at higher levels, because they don't possess the necessary knowledge.

Yup. And the ones that do have the knowledge are making much more than I do—and gained that knowledge from prior public service in all likelihood. You’re not going to get them to come back and take my job. So then what? It just doesn’t get done? Rule of law collapses?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They're job sectors. In the government, it's primary knowledge work. Most private sector employees cannot easily move into government work, particularly at higher levels, because they don't possess the necessary knowledge.

Yup. And the ones that do have the knowledge are making much more than I do—and gained that knowledge from prior public service in all likelihood. You’re not going to get them to come back and take my job. So then what? It just doesn’t get done? Rule of law collapses?

100%. Our guidelines are thousands of pages long, written in lawyer speak and sometimes dont make sense or are contradictory. Even a search tool can land hundreds of results and it can take significant time to find the specific section you're looking for if you need to review something. I'm so grateful for those above me who can help provide insight when I'm stuck on a complex issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that the federal government seems upset about cutting staff and shifting directions, but is that just because they aren’t used to it?

Today I had to cut half of one manager’s team across multiple departments, letting go of 9 people because of budget and priority changes. They’re all technical staff, and their manager thinks they’re talented. While it’s tough, they’ll almost certainly land something soon since their skills are in demand. In the private sector, this kind of thing happens all the time, and while no one likes it, it’s just part of the reality. We’re giving them 30 days' notice, which is more than enough from a private sector viewpoint. Many companies give nothing, with employees discovering the same day they’re let go. So, it’s interesting to see how differently government workers react to job changes.

Thinking about the fork email, it seems like if I could give those employees 8 months of paid time to look for a job while doing nothing, they’d be thrilled. Is the outrage from the federal side just because government employees aren’t used to these kinds of shifts?

I also talked to a relative in their 70s who works for the government, and they’re actually excited about the deferred resignation deal. From their perspective, getting paid for 8 months without working before retiring is a dream scenario and a once-in-a-lifetime chance.

One thing I’ve noticed is that a lot of government jobs don’t have portable skills like IT or accounting that easily transfer to the private sector. I also see people who spend their entire careers managing government grants, foreign aid, and similar programs. It seems like these jobs exist mainly to process government functions that wouldn’t even need so much administration if the system were more efficient. If that’s the case, shouldn’t employees in these roles be training for portable skills instead of putting all their eggs in the federal government basket?

And if government priorities shift, isn’t it normal for those employees to look elsewhere? If we’re cutting foreign spending or shoring up the border, wouldn’t it make sense for them to move to agencies in demand instead of expecting a lifetime job in a field that changes with each administration?

Like, if a job was focused on managing the Pony Express mail system back in the day, and then new technology made it obsolete, shouldn’t people in those roles have expected that focus to stop instead of assuming they’d do it forever?

Have you ever been laid off? It’s usually quite crippling for a career. If you are over 45 it’s likely you will have severe downward spiral in employment and income which will truncate the trajectory of their livelihood.

But you assume they will land somewhere fine, so I’m sure you will hire them back if they don’t find it.

I was laid off from a well-paying white collar corporate job during a recession. I made do as a freelance consultant, did other jobs, etc. Eventually I returned to my old employer due to my specialized knowledge (off their payroll for 2.5 years). First as contract, then as a direct hire.

Despite the fortunate circumstances in the end, I can pretty much attribute at least $150K in lost income to the misadventure vs. what I would have earned if I wasn't laid off. I also lost my seniority and one pay grade. That's a bare minimum cash estimate. Does not factor in lost seniority/title (rehired one pay grade lower).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have a process for laying off feds whose skills aren't needed. It has been used many times as the government has evolved. It is not being followed right now.

There are good reasons to believe OPM cannot actually deliver on the 8 months of admin leave. We'll see.

But most importantly, these are not obsolete functions. These are very needed, congressionally directed functions and people are sad and scared about what it means for our country if they are removed. The fact something has no equivalent in the private sector does not make it useless. The government does almost exclusively things the private sector can't or won't, and it does them according to a bunch of rules that guarantee fairness and accountability that the private sector doesn't have to, because we're dealing with tax dollars and prosecution and diplomacy and other things that don't exist in private sector. You are basically asking why doctors don't cross train as software engineers.

Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that the federal government seems upset about cutting staff and shifting directions, but is that just because they aren’t used to it?

Today I had to cut half of one manager’s team across multiple departments, letting go of 9 people because of budget and priority changes. They’re all technical staff, and their manager thinks they’re talented. While it’s tough, they’ll almost certainly land something soon since their skills are in demand. In the private sector, this kind of thing happens all the time, and while no one likes it, it’s just part of the reality. We’re giving them 30 days' notice, which is more than enough from a private sector viewpoint. Many companies give nothing, with employees discovering the same day they’re let go. So, it’s interesting to see how differently government workers react to job changes.

Thinking about the fork email, it seems like if I could give those employees 8 months of paid time to look for a job while doing nothing, they’d be thrilled. Is the outrage from the federal side just because government employees aren’t used to these kinds of shifts?

I also talked to a relative in their 70s who works for the government, and they’re actually excited about the deferred resignation deal. From their perspective, getting paid for 8 months without working before retiring is a dream scenario and a once-in-a-lifetime chance.

One thing I’ve noticed is that a lot of government jobs don’t have portable skills like IT or accounting that easily transfer to the private sector. I also see people who spend their entire careers managing government grants, foreign aid, and similar programs. It seems like these jobs exist mainly to process government functions that wouldn’t even need so much administration if the system were more efficient. If that’s the case, shouldn’t employees in these roles be training for portable skills instead of putting all their eggs in the federal government basket?

And if government priorities shift, isn’t it normal for those employees to look elsewhere? If we’re cutting foreign spending or shoring up the border, wouldn’t it make sense for them to move to agencies in demand instead of expecting a lifetime job in a field that changes with each administration?

Like, if a job was focused on managing the Pony Express mail system back in the day, and then new technology made it obsolete, shouldn’t people in those roles have expected that focus to stop instead of assuming they’d do it forever?

Firstly shut up troll. Your "relative" is absolutely made up. Secondly, you realize MANY, MANY of us worked in the private sector and then many many of us return to the private sector, right???? I just cannot with you alls high school level understanding of the way the world works. Or even just america because you certainly have zero understanding of the way the world functions.

Let's keep our discussion respectful and avoid personal attacks. I assure you, my relative is real. They were planning to retire this year but are now considering the deferred resignation program, which offers full pay without work obligations until September 30. Their main concern is whether to respond with "Resign" or "Resign and Retire." According to the Office of Personnel Management's guidance, the choice doesn't affect the outcome, but it might be used for internal metrics.

High school level understanding? Is that some type of boomer Gen X elderly person insult to make it seem that things should be more complicated than they are? Why does everything need to be complicated? I am the generation of TLDR or "this could've been an email." I am all for simplicity, and if it's too complicated, then it needs to be redone. This could've been an email or a Slack message, and don't message me saying "call me" or just "hi."

Your real relative was delighted because they planned to leave anyway. It's an undeserved windfall for a person who apparently didn't need the money.

At my corporate job they offered voluntary packages of 6-12 months pay and those who planned to retire within a year were delighted. People with a two year horizon stuck around....some only to get pushed out at the 1.5 year mark.

Those of us remaining behind were neither impressed by the exploding offer or the later rug pull for senior employees who were still doing their jobs as specified. Workplace productivity is impacted by whether people feel valued. Telling people it's worth a lot of money to get rid of them and they don't have to work during the special period is somewhat insulting even if it is lucrative or freeing.