APS Advanced Academics Parent Referral

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Can someone tell me what the gifted kids are offered compared to the other kids in the classroom?

For my dd: In elementary it was mostly required extension work that was optional for the general class, a book “club” with the gifted cluster, and some required projects. In middle it was intensified classes, which are available to all but gifted kids are guided to take. In hs (she is a freshman now) it is choices of intensified, AP, and DE classes plus the Capstone program. Gifted kids receive a letter before choosing classes to point out which classes are appropriately challenging, but the choice is theirs.

I wish people wouldn't give old information. APS doesn't allow small group differentiation any more for those tagged as gifted. It's considered inequitable. Only whole class activities are permitted. So no more gifted book clubs, math groups or other extra projects in elementary.

It’s unclear where you are getting your information. Here is a sample differentiation report from this year.
https://innovation.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2024/11/Q1-Differentiation-Report-SY24-25.pdf

They are pulling it out of their MAGA a-hole.

There are extra book clubs, math groups, and projects. The difference now is that they are open to all kids who want to join, not just those who are tagged.

If an NFL team lets a bunch of high schoolers join them, they’re no longer playing at an elite level.

You want to gate keep out the engaged, bright kids who enjoy a subject just because they didn’t do quite as well one day in 2nd grade on a screening test?

GTFO.

They test at least twice and there are parent and teacher referrals for anyone who tests poorly.

Ok....

You want to gate keep out the engaged, bright kids who enjoy a subject even if they aren't tagged GT for whatever reason?

Why is that?

No one has said that. About 30% of APS students are tagged, so it's far from an exclusive club and there are several ways to get tagged.

The request is that that there be real differentiation for kids who are currently not being challenged and not only activities that are at a level that is appropriate for all students. For instance, book clubs last year in my kid's 5th grade were on below grade level books so all kids could participate. That's bunk. At least one book club should have had a more challenging book to challenge those who can read more challenging materials. Teachers can gatekeep or not who joins that book club, but they shouldn't refuse to offer a more challenging option because not everyone is able to read that book.

And I really hate the APS system where math is endlessly boring in elementary but then they cram three years of math into 6th grade prealgebra. There should be a math track where kids get to start to do more challenging math by at least 4th grade with a ramp up to 7th grade Algebra, sort of like FCPS. It wouldnt be enough for super advanced kids, but would be better.

Great - so no gate keeping. That’s not exactly in line with the earlier NFL comment, but ok.

You shouldn’t base your entire opinion on that one book club for one class - that’s not representative of everything that is happening.

There are extra book clubs, math groups, and projects. The difference now is that they are open to all kids who want to join, not just those who are tagged.

And there is a lot more differentiation in middle school.

I'm not basing my opinion on one book club. That's just one example. I'm basing my opinion on the fact my kids did a lot less sitting around waiting before APS decided that every activity had to be offered to every student. They used to get other things to do when they finished their work. Now the options are to read silently, do Lexia or do Dreambox. That's it and it stinks.

Again, you are drawing conclusions based on limited information. APS still offers differentiation.

It’s highly dependent on your individual teacher and your AAC coach

Ok. But PP’s experiences aren’t universal. There are still book clubs, projects, etc. They are just more open about who joins them.

They're just part of the normal curriculum now. They've been adjusted to be grade level work with grade level expectations. After you finish you have to read silently while you wait for others to finish. They are no longer something extra that helps to fill time when you finish grade level work early and they are no longer more challenging (e.g., harder books).

Again, not universal.

Name schools.

ASFS

Unsurprising. But its stupid to argue that APS's gifted model is fine because a handful of elementary schools that aren't doing what APS is telling them to do and have gone rogue, either based on parent pressure or a particular AAC/principal. I've heard at least one school is still doing gifted pull outs, which is absolutely not what APS is telling AACs to do.

I know several parents who have gone around and around with our school's administration and AAC and they are completely dug in that they are doing exactly what APS has told them to offer, which is nothing that can't be offered to all students.

APS isn’t saying no differentiation, just that it is open to more kids. It’s fluid.

[Anonymous]

Opening varsity practices to all ends up lowering the intensity of the endeavor. You get that, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Opening varsity practices to all ends up lowering the intensity of the endeavor. You get that, right?

We are discussing elementary school, not competitive sports.

It’s self selecting. The bright, engaged kids step up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Opening varsity practices to all ends up lowering the intensity of the endeavor. You get that, right?

You don’t seem to understand how this works. If a non identified kid is excited about and doing well in a fractions unit, it isn’t “lowering the intensity of the endeavor” to allow him to do the extension work that the identified kids are required to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The system is much better now. Back when it was pullout the GT teachers gatekeeped to keep their caseloads small, and they left out a lot of kids who should have been identified.

My kid was overlooked. When I parent referred, they tested so high even the principal was wondering how they were missed.

This doesn't make sense. Every kid is test twice, once for NNaT and once for CogAT. You don't get tested based on a parent referral unless the kid is new. But a new kid wasn't overlooked, because they weren't there to be overlooked.

You don't know what you don't know. Kids are screened twice now, but that wasn't always the case. They were just given the NNaT; that's not a great test and it missed too many kids.

The addition of the CogAT was one of the improvements in addition to the push in model so kids are not left out anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The system is much better now. Back when it was pullout the GT teachers gatekeeped to keep their caseloads small, and they left out a lot of kids who should have been identified.

My kid was overlooked. When I parent referred, they tested so high even the principal was wondering how they were missed.

It’s not better now, just bad in a different way. The reality is we need 3 options for students especially in middle school and up-remedial, regular, intensified/honors. No one wants their kid in the struggling section so that should be placement based on test scores, work samples and teacher feedback. Honors should be similar.

That is literally what we have now in middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The system is much better now. Back when it was pullout the GT teachers gatekeeped to keep their caseloads small, and they left out a lot of kids who should have been identified.

My kid was overlooked. When I parent referred, they tested so high even the principal was wondering how they were missed.

This doesn't make sense. Every kid is test twice, once for NNaT and once for CogAT. You don't get tested based on a parent referral unless the kid is new. But a new kid wasn't overlooked, because they weren't there to be overlooked.

You don't know what you don't know. Kids are screened twice now, but that wasn't always the case. They were just given the NNaT; that's not a great test and it missed too many kids.

The addition of the CogAT was one of the improvements in addition to the push in model so kids are not left out anymore.

My 20 yo took both NNaT AND CogAT in APS, and the push in model was also adopted when he was in elementary. That was a long time ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The system is much better now. Back when it was pullout the GT teachers gatekeeped to keep their caseloads small, and they left out a lot of kids who should have been identified.

My kid was overlooked. When I parent referred, they tested so high even the principal was wondering how they were missed.

This doesn't make sense. Every kid is test twice, once for NNaT and once for CogAT. You don't get tested based on a parent referral unless the kid is new. But a new kid wasn't overlooked, because they weren't there to be overlooked.

You don't know what you don't know. Kids are screened twice now, but that wasn't always the case. They were just given the NNaT; that's not a great test and it missed too many kids.

The addition of the CogAT was one of the improvements in addition to the push in model so kids are not left out anymore.

My 20 yo took both NNaT AND CogAT in APS, and the push in model was also adopted when he was in elementary. That was a long time ago.

I think you are remembering this wrong. My kid is younger than yours and was not given the CogAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Opening varsity practices to all ends up lowering the intensity of the endeavor. You get that, right?

You don’t seem to understand how this works. If a non identified kid is excited about and doing well in a fractions unit, it isn’t “lowering the intensity of the endeavor” to allow him to do the extension work that the identified kids are required to do.

The thing is that they're not offering it as a separate extension where kids choose to participate or not. They offer these activities to all students so it needs to be accessible to all students. The activities are being offered as whole class activities and have been made easier so all students can do them successfully.

This is leaving the students who used to get extensions with nothing to do when they finish grade level work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The system is much better now. Back when it was pullout the GT teachers gatekeeped to keep their caseloads small, and they left out a lot of kids who should have been identified.

My kid was overlooked. When I parent referred, they tested so high even the principal was wondering how they were missed.

It’s not better now, just bad in a different way. The reality is we need 3 options for students especially in middle school and up-remedial, regular, intensified/honors. No one wants their kid in the struggling section so that should be placement based on test scores, work samples and teacher feedback. Honors should be similar.

That is literally what we have now in middle school.

1. Not all subjects have a remedial option
2. Anyone can enroll in intensified, no scores needed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The system is much better now. Back when it was pullout the GT teachers gatekeeped to keep their caseloads small, and they left out a lot of kids who should have been identified.

My kid was overlooked. When I parent referred, they tested so high even the principal was wondering how they were missed.

It’s not better now, just bad in a different way. The reality is we need 3 options for students especially in middle school and up-remedial, regular, intensified/honors. No one wants their kid in the struggling section so that should be placement based on test scores, work samples and teacher feedback. Honors should be similar.

That is literally what we have now in middle school.

1. Not all subjects have a remedial option
2. Anyone can enroll in intensified, no scores needed

There are special education classes for kids who need them in every subject as well as remedial classes in some subjects. And why do you care about keeping other kids out of intensified? Your kid can sign up, what's the problem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The system is much better now. Back when it was pullout the GT teachers gatekeeped to keep their caseloads small, and they left out a lot of kids who should have been identified.

My kid was overlooked. When I parent referred, they tested so high even the principal was wondering how they were missed.

This doesn't make sense. Every kid is test twice, once for NNaT and once for CogAT. You don't get tested based on a parent referral unless the kid is new. But a new kid wasn't overlooked, because they weren't there to be overlooked.

You don't know what you don't know. Kids are screened twice now, but that wasn't always the case. They were just given the NNaT; that's not a great test and it missed too many kids.

The addition of the CogAT was one of the improvements in addition to the push in model so kids are not left out anymore.

My 20 yo took both NNaT AND CogAT in APS, and the push in model was also adopted when he was in elementary. That was a long time ago.

I think you are remembering this wrong. My kid is younger than yours and was not given the CogAT.

Nah. Here’s a thread from 2013, so it goes back at least that far.
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/352306.page#4481876

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The system is much better now. Back when it was pullout the GT teachers gatekeeped to keep their caseloads small, and they left out a lot of kids who should have been identified.

My kid was overlooked. When I parent referred, they tested so high even the principal was wondering how they were missed.

This doesn't make sense. Every kid is test twice, once for NNaT and once for CogAT. You don't get tested based on a parent referral unless the kid is new. But a new kid wasn't overlooked, because they weren't there to be overlooked.

You don't know what you don't know. Kids are screened twice now, but that wasn't always the case. They were just given the NNaT; that's not a great test and it missed too many kids.

The addition of the CogAT was one of the improvements in addition to the push in model so kids are not left out anymore.

My 20 yo took both NNaT AND CogAT in APS, and the push in model was also adopted when he was in elementary. That was a long time ago.

I think you are remembering this wrong. My kid is younger than yours and was not given the CogAT.

Nah. Here’s a thread from 2013, so it goes back at least that far.
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/352306.page#4481876

It was implemented system wide around 2016.

[Anonymous]

Just as an example for math, the way it used to work was that if my kid finished her fractions assignment, she'd work on a math extension packet provided by b the gifted teacher for the rest of the class. Then the gifted teacher or classroom teacher would meet with the kids who'd done the extension packet every 1-4 weeks. It wasn't much, but gave my kid something to do after they'd finished their normal work.

Now when my kid finishes her fractions assignment she's told to read silently or do Dreambox. The class as a whole does an extension project on fractions all together at the end of the unit, either led by the classroom teacher or AAC, usually for 1-2 days.

That's how I now have a kid who was reading silently for hours and hours per day at school. She can finish a math assignment in 10 minutes, leaving her 50 minutes to read. Rinse and repeat in every subject. Then every month or two there's an AAC planned extension activity for the whole class that's designed to be open ended. It's not working. These kids need actual differentiation to keep them busy on a daily basis. They shouldn't be ignored like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The system is much better now. Back when it was pullout the GT teachers gatekeeped to keep their caseloads small, and they left out a lot of kids who should have been identified.

My kid was overlooked. When I parent referred, they tested so high even the principal was wondering how they were missed.

This doesn't make sense. Every kid is test twice, once for NNaT and once for CogAT. You don't get tested based on a parent referral unless the kid is new. But a new kid wasn't overlooked, because they weren't there to be overlooked.

You don't know what you don't know. Kids are screened twice now, but that wasn't always the case. They were just given the NNaT; that's not a great test and it missed too many kids.

The addition of the CogAT was one of the improvements in addition to the push in model so kids are not left out anymore.

My 20 yo took both NNaT AND CogAT in APS, and the push in model was also adopted when he was in elementary. That was a long time ago.

I think you are remembering this wrong. My kid is younger than yours and was not given the CogAT.

Nah. Here’s a thread from 2013, so it goes back at least that far.
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/352306.page#4481876

Interesting because it was definitely not at my kid's school that far back. Maybe it was piloted at some schools? Or maybe our RTG wasn't with the program. She was really bad.