APS Advanced Academics Parent Referral

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The system is much better now. Back when it was pullout the GT teachers gatekeeped to keep their caseloads small, and they left out a lot of kids who should have been identified.

My kid was overlooked. When I parent referred, they tested so high even the principal was wondering how they were missed.

It’s not better now, just bad in a different way. The reality is we need 3 options for students especially in middle school and up-remedial, regular, intensified/honors. No one wants their kid in the struggling section so that should be placement based on test scores, work samples and teacher feedback. Honors should be similar.

That is literally what we have now in middle school.

1. Not all subjects have a remedial option
2. Anyone can enroll in intensified, no scores needed

The core subjects have remedial options. Plus there are additional supports built-in to support struggling kids in grade-level classes.

Kids self select into intensified. And the enrollment is fluid - I know kids who have moved up and down during the school year.

How old are your kids? Which school(s)? Seems like you have young kids.

7th grader. I see the (sometimes frustrated)canvas messages his teachers send reminding students about test corrections and turning in assignments. Those kids are slowing things down. The teachers have to re-teach basic concepts in class. The problem is that anyone can sign up for them, even if the don’t have the scores or work ethic to support the placement.

Parents have always been able to parent place. That is nothing new.

When they added the intensified option it added an extra bucket for the bright, but less motivated kids to fall into. You end up with fewer slackers in intensified Algebra 1/Geometry than before the change.

Ok, but there are still parents inappropriately placing kids and there’s no more pull outs so it’s actually worse than before

There were never pullouts in middle school. That’s just not a thing. It’s gross that you think your kid is so special that you want to block other kids from the same opportunities. Did you know anyone can take AP classes too? You need to adjust your attitude or you have a long road ahead of you.

It’s not fair for the teachers, the students who can’t keep up or those who can. It’s a broken system

Anyone can take the class, but the rigor shouldn’t change. Let ‘em drown.

That's where I'm at as well. I don't think APS would let it happen though.

A kid who is drowning is probably struggling with MS generally. The intensified classes just aren't that much harder. If you do the work, you'll be fine. Maybe not an A, but not drowning.

I am thinking more of math placements myself. I think math placement should be determined by the office of academics, but so many parents want to say that their kid is in algebra when they’re in seventh grade or whatever… And that has been a disaster. I feel so sorry for those kids.

You must not have a kid in middle school. They use both math SOL scores and MAP scores to recommend MS math placement. There's no reason to have kids take another placement test. Those are the placement tests.

If you want to parent place, you have to speak to someone senior in the APS math department to get their agreement (or then send a letter explicitly going against their recommendation).

You can argue with whether APS is using the right cutoffs or shouldn't allow parent placement, but math is the only subject where placement is not at the kid's discretion. And my 6th grader's pre algebra teacher has said that he'll move kids down if they're not keeping up--it absolutely happens. I'm not sure this is a real issue.

I didn’t say anything about placement tests. You’re right – the office of academics uses those two data points to determine math placements. I personally think if kids do not qualify based on these data points, then they should not be in the class. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The system is much better now. Back when it was pullout the GT teachers gatekeeped to keep their caseloads small, and they left out a lot of kids who should have been identified.

My kid was overlooked. When I parent referred, they tested so high even the principal was wondering how they were missed.

It’s not better now, just bad in a different way. The reality is we need 3 options for students especially in middle school and up-remedial, regular, intensified/honors. No one wants their kid in the struggling section so that should be placement based on test scores, work samples and teacher feedback. Honors should be similar.

That is literally what we have now in middle school.

1. Not all subjects have a remedial option
2. Anyone can enroll in intensified, no scores needed

The core subjects have remedial options. Plus there are additional supports built-in to support struggling kids in grade-level classes.

Kids self select into intensified. And the enrollment is fluid - I know kids who have moved up and down during the school year.

How old are your kids? Which school(s)? Seems like you have young kids.

7th grader. I see the (sometimes frustrated)canvas messages his teachers send reminding students about test corrections and turning in assignments. Those kids are slowing things down. The teachers have to re-teach basic concepts in class. The problem is that anyone can sign up for them, even if the don’t have the scores or work ethic to support the placement.

Parents have always been able to parent place. That is nothing new.

When they added the intensified option it added an extra bucket for the bright, but less motivated kids to fall into. You end up with fewer slackers in intensified Algebra 1/Geometry than before the change.

Ok, but there are still parents inappropriately placing kids and there’s no more pull outs so it’s actually worse than before

There were never pullouts in middle school. That’s just not a thing. It’s gross that you think your kid is so special that you want to block other kids from the same opportunities. Did you know anyone can take AP classes too? You need to adjust your attitude or you have a long road ahead of you.

It’s not fair for the teachers, the students who can’t keep up or those who can. It’s a broken system

Anyone can take the class, but the rigor shouldn’t change. Let ‘em drown.

That's where I'm at as well. I don't think APS would let it happen though.

A kid who is drowning is probably struggling with MS generally. The intensified classes just aren't that much harder. If you do the work, you'll be fine. Maybe not an A, but not drowning.

I am thinking more of math placements myself. I think math placement should be determined by the office of academics, but so many parents want to say that their kid is in algebra when they’re in seventh grade or whatever… And that has been a disaster. I feel so sorry for those kids.

You must not have a kid in middle school. They use both math SOL scores and MAP scores to recommend MS math placement. There's no reason to have kids take another placement test. Those are the placement tests.

If you want to parent place, you have to speak to someone senior in the APS math department to get their agreement (or then send a letter explicitly going against their recommendation).

You can argue with whether APS is using the right cutoffs or shouldn't allow parent placement, but math is the only subject where placement is not at the kid's discretion. And my 6th grader's pre algebra teacher has said that he'll move kids down if they're not keeping up--it absolutely happens. I'm not sure this is a real issue.

I didn’t say anything about placement tests. You’re right – the office of academics uses those two data points to determine math placements. I personally think if kids do not qualify based on these data points, then they should not be in the class. Sorry.

Oh, and I 100% have a kid in middle school. I watched as one of their friend’s pushy ass parents insisted that the kid be placed in pre-algebra in sixth grade, and the poor kid is totally struggling. I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that you parent placed your kid and that’s why you’re all defensive about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The system is much better now. Back when it was pullout the GT teachers gatekeeped to keep their caseloads small, and they left out a lot of kids who should have been identified.

My kid was overlooked. When I parent referred, they tested so high even the principal was wondering how they were missed.

It’s not better now, just bad in a different way. The reality is we need 3 options for students especially in middle school and up-remedial, regular, intensified/honors. No one wants their kid in the struggling section so that should be placement based on test scores, work samples and teacher feedback. Honors should be similar.

That is literally what we have now in middle school.

1. Not all subjects have a remedial option
2. Anyone can enroll in intensified, no scores needed

The core subjects have remedial options. Plus there are additional supports built-in to support struggling kids in grade-level classes.

Kids self select into intensified. And the enrollment is fluid - I know kids who have moved up and down during the school year.

How old are your kids? Which school(s)? Seems like you have young kids.

7th grader. I see the (sometimes frustrated)canvas messages his teachers send reminding students about test corrections and turning in assignments. Those kids are slowing things down. The teachers have to re-teach basic concepts in class. The problem is that anyone can sign up for them, even if the don’t have the scores or work ethic to support the placement.

Parents have always been able to parent place. That is nothing new.

When they added the intensified option it added an extra bucket for the bright, but less motivated kids to fall into. You end up with fewer slackers in intensified Algebra 1/Geometry than before the change.

Ok, but there are still parents inappropriately placing kids and there’s no more pull outs so it’s actually worse than before

There were never pullouts in middle school. That’s just not a thing. It’s gross that you think your kid is so special that you want to block other kids from the same opportunities. Did you know anyone can take AP classes too? You need to adjust your attitude or you have a long road ahead of you.

It’s not fair for the teachers, the students who can’t keep up or those who can. It’s a broken system

Anyone can take the class, but the rigor shouldn’t change. Let ‘em drown.

That's where I'm at as well. I don't think APS would let it happen though.

A kid who is drowning is probably struggling with MS generally. The intensified classes just aren't that much harder. If you do the work, you'll be fine. Maybe not an A, but not drowning.

I am thinking more of math placements myself. I think math placement should be determined by the office of academics, but so many parents want to say that their kid is in algebra when they’re in seventh grade or whatever… And that has been a disaster. I feel so sorry for those kids.

You must not have a kid in middle school. They use both math SOL scores and MAP scores to recommend MS math placement. There's no reason to have kids take another placement test. Those are the placement tests.

If you want to parent place, you have to speak to someone senior in the APS math department to get their agreement (or then send a letter explicitly going against their recommendation).

You can argue with whether APS is using the right cutoffs or shouldn't allow parent placement, but math is the only subject where placement is not at the kid's discretion. And my 6th grader's pre algebra teacher has said that he'll move kids down if they're not keeping up--it absolutely happens. I'm not sure this is a real issue.

I didn’t say anything about placement tests. You’re right – the office of academics uses those two data points to determine math placements. I personally think if kids do not qualify based on these data points, then they should not be in the class. Sorry.

I parent placed. My kid had an excellent MAP score, but an SOL that was just below the cut off. But I also knew she was out sick the week of the SOL and took it as a makeup when she was still sick. I spoke with her 5th grade teacher and she recommended her for pre algebra so I had her placed. She just finished Q2 with a 98% average. It's her favorite class. No regrets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The system is much better now. Back when it was pullout the GT teachers gatekeeped to keep their caseloads small, and they left out a lot of kids who should have been identified.

My kid was overlooked. When I parent referred, they tested so high even the principal was wondering how they were missed.

It’s not better now, just bad in a different way. The reality is we need 3 options for students especially in middle school and up-remedial, regular, intensified/honors. No one wants their kid in the struggling section so that should be placement based on test scores, work samples and teacher feedback. Honors should be similar.

That is literally what we have now in middle school.

1. Not all subjects have a remedial option
2. Anyone can enroll in intensified, no scores needed

The core subjects have remedial options. Plus there are additional supports built-in to support struggling kids in grade-level classes.

Kids self select into intensified. And the enrollment is fluid - I know kids who have moved up and down during the school year.

How old are your kids? Which school(s)? Seems like you have young kids.

7th grader. I see the (sometimes frustrated)canvas messages his teachers send reminding students about test corrections and turning in assignments. Those kids are slowing things down. The teachers have to re-teach basic concepts in class. The problem is that anyone can sign up for them, even if the don’t have the scores or work ethic to support the placement.

Parents have always been able to parent place. That is nothing new.

When they added the intensified option it added an extra bucket for the bright, but less motivated kids to fall into. You end up with fewer slackers in intensified Algebra 1/Geometry than before the change.

Ok, but there are still parents inappropriately placing kids and there’s no more pull outs so it’s actually worse than before

There were never pullouts in middle school. That’s just not a thing. It’s gross that you think your kid is so special that you want to block other kids from the same opportunities. Did you know anyone can take AP classes too? You need to adjust your attitude or you have a long road ahead of you.

It’s not fair for the teachers, the students who can’t keep up or those who can. It’s a broken system

Anyone can take the class, but the rigor shouldn’t change. Let ‘em drown.

That's where I'm at as well. I don't think APS would let it happen though.

A kid who is drowning is probably struggling with MS generally. The intensified classes just aren't that much harder. If you do the work, you'll be fine. Maybe not an A, but not drowning.

I am thinking more of math placements myself. I think math placement should be determined by the office of academics, but so many parents want to say that their kid is in algebra when they’re in seventh grade or whatever… And that has been a disaster. I feel so sorry for those kids.

You must not have a kid in middle school. They use both math SOL scores and MAP scores to recommend MS math placement. There's no reason to have kids take another placement test. Those are the placement tests.

If you want to parent place, you have to speak to someone senior in the APS math department to get their agreement (or then send a letter explicitly going against their recommendation).

You can argue with whether APS is using the right cutoffs or shouldn't allow parent placement, but math is the only subject where placement is not at the kid's discretion. And my 6th grader's pre algebra teacher has said that he'll move kids down if they're not keeping up--it absolutely happens. I'm not sure this is a real issue.

I didn’t say anything about placement tests. You’re right – the office of academics uses those two data points to determine math placements. I personally think if kids do not qualify based on these data points, then they should not be in the class. Sorry.

Oh, and I 100% have a kid in middle school. I watched as one of their friend’s pushy ass parents insisted that the kid be placed in pre-algebra in sixth grade, and the poor kid is totally struggling. I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that you parent placed your kid and that’s why you’re all defensive about it.

That has been happening for at least 10 years. Nothing new.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The system is much better now. Back when it was pullout the GT teachers gatekeeped to keep their caseloads small, and they left out a lot of kids who should have been identified.

My kid was overlooked. When I parent referred, they tested so high even the principal was wondering how they were missed.

It’s not better now, just bad in a different way. The reality is we need 3 options for students especially in middle school and up-remedial, regular, intensified/honors. No one wants their kid in the struggling section so that should be placement based on test scores, work samples and teacher feedback. Honors should be similar.

That is literally what we have now in middle school.

1. Not all subjects have a remedial option
2. Anyone can enroll in intensified, no scores needed

The core subjects have remedial options. Plus there are additional supports built-in to support struggling kids in grade-level classes.

Kids self select into intensified. And the enrollment is fluid - I know kids who have moved up and down during the school year.

How old are your kids? Which school(s)? Seems like you have young kids.

7th grader. I see the (sometimes frustrated)canvas messages his teachers send reminding students about test corrections and turning in assignments. Those kids are slowing things down. The teachers have to re-teach basic concepts in class. The problem is that anyone can sign up for them, even if the don’t have the scores or work ethic to support the placement.

Parents have always been able to parent place. That is nothing new.

When they added the intensified option it added an extra bucket for the bright, but less motivated kids to fall into. You end up with fewer slackers in intensified Algebra 1/Geometry than before the change.

Ok, but there are still parents inappropriately placing kids and there’s no more pull outs so it’s actually worse than before

There were never pullouts in middle school. That’s just not a thing. It’s gross that you think your kid is so special that you want to block other kids from the same opportunities. Did you know anyone can take AP classes too? You need to adjust your attitude or you have a long road ahead of you.

It’s not fair for the teachers, the students who can’t keep up or those who can. It’s a broken system

Anyone can take the class, but the rigor shouldn’t change. Let ‘em drown.

That's where I'm at as well. I don't think APS would let it happen though.

A kid who is drowning is probably struggling with MS generally. The intensified classes just aren't that much harder. If you do the work, you'll be fine. Maybe not an A, but not drowning.

That’s the point. They’ve watered down the advanced courses. I say, whatever, let anyone in who wants to join (some people may surprise you!), but let’s stop making them easier. Kids will either succeed, or not…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The system is much better now. Back when it was pullout the GT teachers gatekeeped to keep their caseloads small, and they left out a lot of kids who should have been identified.

My kid was overlooked. When I parent referred, they tested so high even the principal was wondering how they were missed.

It’s not better now, just bad in a different way. The reality is we need 3 options for students especially in middle school and up-remedial, regular, intensified/honors. No one wants their kid in the struggling section so that should be placement based on test scores, work samples and teacher feedback. Honors should be similar.

That is literally what we have now in middle school.

1. Not all subjects have a remedial option
2. Anyone can enroll in intensified, no scores needed

The core subjects have remedial options. Plus there are additional supports built-in to support struggling kids in grade-level classes.

Kids self select into intensified. And the enrollment is fluid - I know kids who have moved up and down during the school year.

How old are your kids? Which school(s)? Seems like you have young kids.

7th grader. I see the (sometimes frustrated)canvas messages his teachers send reminding students about test corrections and turning in assignments. Those kids are slowing things down. The teachers have to re-teach basic concepts in class. The problem is that anyone can sign up for them, even if the don’t have the scores or work ethic to support the placement.

Parents have always been able to parent place. That is nothing new.

When they added the intensified option it added an extra bucket for the bright, but less motivated kids to fall into. You end up with fewer slackers in intensified Algebra 1/Geometry than before the change.

Ok, but there are still parents inappropriately placing kids and there’s no more pull outs so it’s actually worse than before

There were never pullouts in middle school. That’s just not a thing. It’s gross that you think your kid is so special that you want to block other kids from the same opportunities. Did you know anyone can take AP classes too? You need to adjust your attitude or you have a long road ahead of you.

It’s not fair for the teachers, the students who can’t keep up or those who can. It’s a broken system

Anyone can take the class, but the rigor shouldn’t change. Let ‘em drown.

That's where I'm at as well. I don't think APS would let it happen though.

A kid who is drowning is probably struggling with MS generally. The intensified classes just aren't that much harder. If you do the work, you'll be fine. Maybe not an A, but not drowning.

That’s the point. They’ve watered down the advanced courses. I say, whatever, let anyone in who wants to join (some people may surprise you!), but let’s stop making them easier. Kids will either succeed, or not…

They just added the intensified classes--they're new. They haven't been around long enough to be watered down. Let's not make stuff up.

I'm happy if APS wants to make them harder, but that's somewhat hard to do when there's a policy that they can only cover the same content as the non-intensified version.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The system is much better now. Back when it was pullout the GT teachers gatekeeped to keep their caseloads small, and they left out a lot of kids who should have been identified.

My kid was overlooked. When I parent referred, they tested so high even the principal was wondering how they were missed.

It’s not better now, just bad in a different way. The reality is we need 3 options for students especially in middle school and up-remedial, regular, intensified/honors. No one wants their kid in the struggling section so that should be placement based on test scores, work samples and teacher feedback. Honors should be similar.

That is literally what we have now in middle school.

1. Not all subjects have a remedial option
2. Anyone can enroll in intensified, no scores needed

The core subjects have remedial options. Plus there are additional supports built-in to support struggling kids in grade-level classes.

Kids self select into intensified. And the enrollment is fluid - I know kids who have moved up and down during the school year.

How old are your kids? Which school(s)? Seems like you have young kids.

7th grader. I see the (sometimes frustrated)canvas messages his teachers send reminding students about test corrections and turning in assignments. Those kids are slowing things down. The teachers have to re-teach basic concepts in class. The problem is that anyone can sign up for them, even if the don’t have the scores or work ethic to support the placement.

Parents have always been able to parent place. That is nothing new.

When they added the intensified option it added an extra bucket for the bright, but less motivated kids to fall into. You end up with fewer slackers in intensified Algebra 1/Geometry than before the change.

Ok, but there are still parents inappropriately placing kids and there’s no more pull outs so it’s actually worse than before

There were never pullouts in middle school. That’s just not a thing. It’s gross that you think your kid is so special that you want to block other kids from the same opportunities. Did you know anyone can take AP classes too? You need to adjust your attitude or you have a long road ahead of you.

It’s not fair for the teachers, the students who can’t keep up or those who can. It’s a broken system

Anyone can take the class, but the rigor shouldn’t change. Let ‘em drown.

That's where I'm at as well. I don't think APS would let it happen though.

A kid who is drowning is probably struggling with MS generally. The intensified classes just aren't that much harder. If you do the work, you'll be fine. Maybe not an A, but not drowning.

I am thinking more of math placements myself. I think math placement should be determined by the office of academics, but so many parents want to say that their kid is in algebra when they’re in seventh grade or whatever… And that has been a disaster. I feel so sorry for those kids.

You must not have a kid in middle school. They use both math SOL scores and MAP scores to recommend MS math placement. There's no reason to have kids take another placement test. Those are the placement tests.

If you want to parent place, you have to speak to someone senior in the APS math department to get their agreement (or then send a letter explicitly going against their recommendation).

You can argue with whether APS is using the right cutoffs or shouldn't allow parent placement, but math is the only subject where placement is not at the kid's discretion. And my 6th grader's pre algebra teacher has said that he'll move kids down if they're not keeping up--it absolutely happens. I'm not sure this is a real issue.

I didn’t say anything about placement tests. You’re right – the office of academics uses those two data points to determine math placements. I personally think if kids do not qualify based on these data points, then they should not be in the class. Sorry.

Oh, and I 100% have a kid in middle school. I watched as one of their friend’s pushy ass parents insisted that the kid be placed in pre-algebra in sixth grade, and the poor kid is totally struggling. I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that you parent placed your kid and that’s why you’re all defensive about it.

That has been happening for at least 10 years. Nothing new.

It also gets sorted in the long run. Either the parents pay for expensive tutors or the kid drops down a level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The system is much better now. Back when it was pullout the GT teachers gatekeeped to keep their caseloads small, and they left out a lot of kids who should have been identified.

My kid was overlooked. When I parent referred, they tested so high even the principal was wondering how they were missed.

It’s not better now, just bad in a different way. The reality is we need 3 options for students especially in middle school and up-remedial, regular, intensified/honors. No one wants their kid in the struggling section so that should be placement based on test scores, work samples and teacher feedback. Honors should be similar.

That is literally what we have now in middle school.

1. Not all subjects have a remedial option
2. Anyone can enroll in intensified, no scores needed

The core subjects have remedial options. Plus there are additional supports built-in to support struggling kids in grade-level classes.

Kids self select into intensified. And the enrollment is fluid - I know kids who have moved up and down during the school year.

How old are your kids? Which school(s)? Seems like you have young kids.

7th grader. I see the (sometimes frustrated)canvas messages his teachers send reminding students about test corrections and turning in assignments. Those kids are slowing things down. The teachers have to re-teach basic concepts in class. The problem is that anyone can sign up for them, even if the don’t have the scores or work ethic to support the placement.

Parents have always been able to parent place. That is nothing new.

When they added the intensified option it added an extra bucket for the bright, but less motivated kids to fall into. You end up with fewer slackers in intensified Algebra 1/Geometry than before the change.

Ok, but there are still parents inappropriately placing kids and there’s no more pull outs so it’s actually worse than before

There were never pullouts in middle school. That’s just not a thing. It’s gross that you think your kid is so special that you want to block other kids from the same opportunities. Did you know anyone can take AP classes too? You need to adjust your attitude or you have a long road ahead of you.

It’s not fair for the teachers, the students who can’t keep up or those who can. It’s a broken system

Anyone can take the class, but the rigor shouldn’t change. Let ‘em drown.

That's where I'm at as well. I don't think APS would let it happen though.

A kid who is drowning is probably struggling with MS generally. The intensified classes just aren't that much harder. If you do the work, you'll be fine. Maybe not an A, but not drowning.

I am thinking more of math placements myself. I think math placement should be determined by the office of academics, but so many parents want to say that their kid is in algebra when they’re in seventh grade or whatever… And that has been a disaster. I feel so sorry for those kids.

You must not have a kid in middle school. They use both math SOL scores and MAP scores to recommend MS math placement. There's no reason to have kids take another placement test. Those are the placement tests.

If you want to parent place, you have to speak to someone senior in the APS math department to get their agreement (or then send a letter explicitly going against their recommendation).

You can argue with whether APS is using the right cutoffs or shouldn't allow parent placement, but math is the only subject where placement is not at the kid's discretion. And my 6th grader's pre algebra teacher has said that he'll move kids down if they're not keeping up--it absolutely happens. I'm not sure this is a real issue.

I didn’t say anything about placement tests. You’re right – the office of academics uses those two data points to determine math placements. I personally think if kids do not qualify based on these data points, then they should not be in the class. Sorry.

Well, we parent-placed my kid into algebra in 7th grade. He currently has an A in AP pre-calc in 10th grade and has never had below an A in any math class. It was absolutely the right math path for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The system is much better now. Back when it was pullout the GT teachers gatekeeped to keep their caseloads small, and they left out a lot of kids who should have been identified.

My kid was overlooked. When I parent referred, they tested so high even the principal was wondering how they were missed.

It’s not better now, just bad in a different way. The reality is we need 3 options for students especially in middle school and up-remedial, regular, intensified/honors. No one wants their kid in the struggling section so that should be placement based on test scores, work samples and teacher feedback. Honors should be similar.

That is literally what we have now in middle school.

1. Not all subjects have a remedial option
2. Anyone can enroll in intensified, no scores needed

The core subjects have remedial options. Plus there are additional supports built-in to support struggling kids in grade-level classes.

Kids self select into intensified. And the enrollment is fluid - I know kids who have moved up and down during the school year.

How old are your kids? Which school(s)? Seems like you have young kids.

7th grader. I see the (sometimes frustrated)canvas messages his teachers send reminding students about test corrections and turning in assignments. Those kids are slowing things down. The teachers have to re-teach basic concepts in class. The problem is that anyone can sign up for them, even if the don’t have the scores or work ethic to support the placement.

Parents have always been able to parent place. That is nothing new.

When they added the intensified option it added an extra bucket for the bright, but less motivated kids to fall into. You end up with fewer slackers in intensified Algebra 1/Geometry than before the change.

Ok, but there are still parents inappropriately placing kids and there’s no more pull outs so it’s actually worse than before

There were never pullouts in middle school. That’s just not a thing. It’s gross that you think your kid is so special that you want to block other kids from the same opportunities. Did you know anyone can take AP classes too? You need to adjust your attitude or you have a long road ahead of you.

It’s not fair for the teachers, the students who can’t keep up or those who can. It’s a broken system

Anyone can take the class, but the rigor shouldn’t change. Let ‘em drown.

That's where I'm at as well. I don't think APS would let it happen though.

A kid who is drowning is probably struggling with MS generally. The intensified classes just aren't that much harder. If you do the work, you'll be fine. Maybe not an A, but not drowning.

I am thinking more of math placements myself. I think math placement should be determined by the office of academics, but so many parents want to say that their kid is in algebra when they’re in seventh grade or whatever… And that has been a disaster. I feel so sorry for those kids.

You must not have a kid in middle school. They use both math SOL scores and MAP scores to recommend MS math placement. There's no reason to have kids take another placement test. Those are the placement tests.

If you want to parent place, you have to speak to someone senior in the APS math department to get their agreement (or then send a letter explicitly going against their recommendation).

You can argue with whether APS is using the right cutoffs or shouldn't allow parent placement, but math is the only subject where placement is not at the kid's discretion. And my 6th grader's pre algebra teacher has said that he'll move kids down if they're not keeping up--it absolutely happens. I'm not sure this is a real issue.

I didn’t say anything about placement tests. You’re right – the office of academics uses those two data points to determine math placements. I personally think if kids do not qualify based on these data points, then they should not be in the class. Sorry.

Oh, and I 100% have a kid in middle school. I watched as one of their friend’s pushy ass parents insisted that the kid be placed in pre-algebra in sixth grade, and the poor kid is totally struggling. I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that you parent placed your kid and that’s why you’re all defensive about it.

I have a kid in ES "Gifted" and had the scores for 6th grade pre-A. However, they took Math 6, their choice and LOVE having a 100% in math with almost no effort. I, OTOH, sort of feel like I didn't push my kid enough but they are very happy so there's that bright side. YMMV

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The system is much better now. Back when it was pullout the GT teachers gatekeeped to keep their caseloads small, and they left out a lot of kids who should have been identified.

My kid was overlooked. When I parent referred, they tested so high even the principal was wondering how they were missed.

It’s not better now, just bad in a different way. The reality is we need 3 options for students especially in middle school and up-remedial, regular, intensified/honors. No one wants their kid in the struggling section so that should be placement based on test scores, work samples and teacher feedback. Honors should be similar.

That is literally what we have now in middle school.

1. Not all subjects have a remedial option
2. Anyone can enroll in intensified, no scores needed

The core subjects have remedial options. Plus there are additional supports built-in to support struggling kids in grade-level classes.

Kids self select into intensified. And the enrollment is fluid - I know kids who have moved up and down during the school year.

How old are your kids? Which school(s)? Seems like you have young kids.

7th grader. I see the (sometimes frustrated)canvas messages his teachers send reminding students about test corrections and turning in assignments. Those kids are slowing things down. The teachers have to re-teach basic concepts in class. The problem is that anyone can sign up for them, even if the don’t have the scores or work ethic to support the placement.

Parents have always been able to parent place. That is nothing new.

When they added the intensified option it added an extra bucket for the bright, but less motivated kids to fall into. You end up with fewer slackers in intensified Algebra 1/Geometry than before the change.

Ok, but there are still parents inappropriately placing kids and there’s no more pull outs so it’s actually worse than before

There were never pullouts in middle school. That’s just not a thing. It’s gross that you think your kid is so special that you want to block other kids from the same opportunities. Did you know anyone can take AP classes too? You need to adjust your attitude or you have a long road ahead of you.

It’s not fair for the teachers, the students who can’t keep up or those who can. It’s a broken system

Anyone can take the class, but the rigor shouldn’t change. Let ‘em drown.

That's where I'm at as well. I don't think APS would let it happen though.

A kid who is drowning is probably struggling with MS generally. The intensified classes just aren't that much harder. If you do the work, you'll be fine. Maybe not an A, but not drowning.

That’s the point. They’ve watered down the advanced courses. I say, whatever, let anyone in who wants to join (some people may surprise you!), but let’s stop making them easier. Kids will either succeed, or not…

They just added the intensified classes--they're new. They haven't been around long enough to be watered down. Let's not make stuff up.

I'm happy if APS wants to make them harder, but that's somewhat hard to do when there's a policy that they can only cover the same content as the non-intensified version.

+1

Why is PP making up a narrative? What is their goal here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The system is much better now. Back when it was pullout the GT teachers gatekeeped to keep their caseloads small, and they left out a lot of kids who should have been identified.

My kid was overlooked. When I parent referred, they tested so high even the principal was wondering how they were missed.

It’s not better now, just bad in a different way. The reality is we need 3 options for students especially in middle school and up-remedial, regular, intensified/honors. No one wants their kid in the struggling section so that should be placement based on test scores, work samples and teacher feedback. Honors should be similar.

That is literally what we have now in middle school.

1. Not all subjects have a remedial option
2. Anyone can enroll in intensified, no scores needed

The core subjects have remedial options. Plus there are additional supports built-in to support struggling kids in grade-level classes.

Kids self select into intensified. And the enrollment is fluid - I know kids who have moved up and down during the school year.

How old are your kids? Which school(s)? Seems like you have young kids.

7th grader. I see the (sometimes frustrated)canvas messages his teachers send reminding students about test corrections and turning in assignments. Those kids are slowing things down. The teachers have to re-teach basic concepts in class. The problem is that anyone can sign up for them, even if the don’t have the scores or work ethic to support the placement.

Parents have always been able to parent place. That is nothing new.

When they added the intensified option it added an extra bucket for the bright, but less motivated kids to fall into. You end up with fewer slackers in intensified Algebra 1/Geometry than before the change.

Ok, but there are still parents inappropriately placing kids and there’s no more pull outs so it’s actually worse than before

There were never pullouts in middle school. That’s just not a thing. It’s gross that you think your kid is so special that you want to block other kids from the same opportunities. Did you know anyone can take AP classes too? You need to adjust your attitude or you have a long road ahead of you.

It’s not fair for the teachers, the students who can’t keep up or those who can. It’s a broken system

Anyone can take the class, but the rigor shouldn’t change. Let ‘em drown.

That's where I'm at as well. I don't think APS would let it happen though.

A kid who is drowning is probably struggling with MS generally. The intensified classes just aren't that much harder. If you do the work, you'll be fine. Maybe not an A, but not drowning.

That’s the point. They’ve watered down the advanced courses. I say, whatever, let anyone in who wants to join (some people may surprise you!), but let’s stop making them easier. Kids will either succeed, or not…

They just added the intensified classes--they're new. They haven't been around long enough to be watered down. Let's not make stuff up.

I'm happy if APS wants to make them harder, but that's somewhat hard to do when there's a policy that they can only cover the same content as the non-intensified version.

This is not the first year for intensified classes in HS. Take a seat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The system is much better now. Back when it was pullout the GT teachers gatekeeped to keep their caseloads small, and they left out a lot of kids who should have been identified.

My kid was overlooked. When I parent referred, they tested so high even the principal was wondering how they were missed.

It’s not better now, just bad in a different way. The reality is we need 3 options for students especially in middle school and up-remedial, regular, intensified/honors. No one wants their kid in the struggling section so that should be placement based on test scores, work samples and teacher feedback. Honors should be similar.

That is literally what we have now in middle school.

1. Not all subjects have a remedial option
2. Anyone can enroll in intensified, no scores needed

The core subjects have remedial options. Plus there are additional supports built-in to support struggling kids in grade-level classes.

Kids self select into intensified. And the enrollment is fluid - I know kids who have moved up and down during the school year.

How old are your kids? Which school(s)? Seems like you have young kids.

7th grader. I see the (sometimes frustrated)canvas messages his teachers send reminding students about test corrections and turning in assignments. Those kids are slowing things down. The teachers have to re-teach basic concepts in class. The problem is that anyone can sign up for them, even if the don’t have the scores or work ethic to support the placement.

Parents have always been able to parent place. That is nothing new.

When they added the intensified option it added an extra bucket for the bright, but less motivated kids to fall into. You end up with fewer slackers in intensified Algebra 1/Geometry than before the change.

Ok, but there are still parents inappropriately placing kids and there’s no more pull outs so it’s actually worse than before

There were never pullouts in middle school. That’s just not a thing. It’s gross that you think your kid is so special that you want to block other kids from the same opportunities. Did you know anyone can take AP classes too? You need to adjust your attitude or you have a long road ahead of you.

It’s not fair for the teachers, the students who can’t keep up or those who can. It’s a broken system

Anyone can take the class, but the rigor shouldn’t change. Let ‘em drown.

That's where I'm at as well. I don't think APS would let it happen though.

A kid who is drowning is probably struggling with MS generally. The intensified classes just aren't that much harder. If you do the work, you'll be fine. Maybe not an A, but not drowning.

I am thinking more of math placements myself. I think math placement should be determined by the office of academics, but so many parents want to say that their kid is in algebra when they’re in seventh grade or whatever… And that has been a disaster. I feel so sorry for those kids.

You must not have a kid in middle school. They use both math SOL scores and MAP scores to recommend MS math placement. There's no reason to have kids take another placement test. Those are the placement tests.

If you want to parent place, you have to speak to someone senior in the APS math department to get their agreement (or then send a letter explicitly going against their recommendation).

You can argue with whether APS is using the right cutoffs or shouldn't allow parent placement, but math is the only subject where placement is not at the kid's discretion. And my 6th grader's pre algebra teacher has said that he'll move kids down if they're not keeping up--it absolutely happens. I'm not sure this is a real issue.

My kid also reports kids were asked to leave a class that was too hard for them. These parents are just making up things to complain about. I'm guessing they are APEs, the opportunity hoarding fits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The system is much better now. Back when it was pullout the GT teachers gatekeeped to keep their caseloads small, and they left out a lot of kids who should have been identified.

My kid was overlooked. When I parent referred, they tested so high even the principal was wondering how they were missed.

It’s not better now, just bad in a different way. The reality is we need 3 options for students especially in middle school and up-remedial, regular, intensified/honors. No one wants their kid in the struggling section so that should be placement based on test scores, work samples and teacher feedback. Honors should be similar.

That is literally what we have now in middle school.

1. Not all subjects have a remedial option
2. Anyone can enroll in intensified, no scores needed

The core subjects have remedial options. Plus there are additional supports built-in to support struggling kids in grade-level classes.

Kids self select into intensified. And the enrollment is fluid - I know kids who have moved up and down during the school year.

How old are your kids? Which school(s)? Seems like you have young kids.

7th grader. I see the (sometimes frustrated)canvas messages his teachers send reminding students about test corrections and turning in assignments. Those kids are slowing things down. The teachers have to re-teach basic concepts in class. The problem is that anyone can sign up for them, even if the don’t have the scores or work ethic to support the placement.

Parents have always been able to parent place. That is nothing new.

When they added the intensified option it added an extra bucket for the bright, but less motivated kids to fall into. You end up with fewer slackers in intensified Algebra 1/Geometry than before the change.

Ok, but there are still parents inappropriately placing kids and there’s no more pull outs so it’s actually worse than before

There were never pullouts in middle school. That’s just not a thing. It’s gross that you think your kid is so special that you want to block other kids from the same opportunities. Did you know anyone can take AP classes too? You need to adjust your attitude or you have a long road ahead of you.

It’s not fair for the teachers, the students who can’t keep up or those who can. It’s a broken system

Anyone can take the class, but the rigor shouldn’t change. Let ‘em drown.

That's where I'm at as well. I don't think APS would let it happen though.

A kid who is drowning is probably struggling with MS generally. The intensified classes just aren't that much harder. If you do the work, you'll be fine. Maybe not an A, but not drowning.

I am thinking more of math placements myself. I think math placement should be determined by the office of academics, but so many parents want to say that their kid is in algebra when they’re in seventh grade or whatever… And that has been a disaster. I feel so sorry for those kids.

You must not have a kid in middle school. They use both math SOL scores and MAP scores to recommend MS math placement. There's no reason to have kids take another placement test. Those are the placement tests.

If you want to parent place, you have to speak to someone senior in the APS math department to get their agreement (or then send a letter explicitly going against their recommendation).

You can argue with whether APS is using the right cutoffs or shouldn't allow parent placement, but math is the only subject where placement is not at the kid's discretion. And my 6th grader's pre algebra teacher has said that he'll move kids down if they're not keeping up--it absolutely happens. I'm not sure this is a real issue.

I didn’t say anything about placement tests. You’re right – the office of academics uses those two data points to determine math placements. I personally think if kids do not qualify based on these data points, then they should not be in the class. Sorry.

I parent placed. My kid had an excellent MAP score, but an SOL that was just below the cut off. But I also knew she was out sick the week of the SOL and took it as a makeup when she was still sick. I spoke with her 5th grade teacher and she recommended her for pre algebra so I had her placed. She just finished Q2 with a 98% average. It's her favorite class. No regrets.

I don't think they should go strictly by the cutoffs. My kid had a strangely low score on the MAP test. But his school recommended him for 6-7-8 anyways. I guess the teachers could tell the test score was not reflective of his capabilities. Clearly it was the right call. He's pulling an A right now in Calc BC and got a 5 on AP pre-calc exam last year. Oh and a perfect score on math SAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The system is much better now. Back when it was pullout the GT teachers gatekeeped to keep their caseloads small, and they left out a lot of kids who should have been identified.

My kid was overlooked. When I parent referred, they tested so high even the principal was wondering how they were missed.

It’s not better now, just bad in a different way. The reality is we need 3 options for students especially in middle school and up-remedial, regular, intensified/honors. No one wants their kid in the struggling section so that should be placement based on test scores, work samples and teacher feedback. Honors should be similar.

That is literally what we have now in middle school.

1. Not all subjects have a remedial option
2. Anyone can enroll in intensified, no scores needed

The core subjects have remedial options. Plus there are additional supports built-in to support struggling kids in grade-level classes.

Kids self select into intensified. And the enrollment is fluid - I know kids who have moved up and down during the school year.

How old are your kids? Which school(s)? Seems like you have young kids.

7th grader. I see the (sometimes frustrated)canvas messages his teachers send reminding students about test corrections and turning in assignments. Those kids are slowing things down. The teachers have to re-teach basic concepts in class. The problem is that anyone can sign up for them, even if the don’t have the scores or work ethic to support the placement.

Parents have always been able to parent place. That is nothing new.

When they added the intensified option it added an extra bucket for the bright, but less motivated kids to fall into. You end up with fewer slackers in intensified Algebra 1/Geometry than before the change.

Ok, but there are still parents inappropriately placing kids and there’s no more pull outs so it’s actually worse than before

There were never pullouts in middle school. That’s just not a thing. It’s gross that you think your kid is so special that you want to block other kids from the same opportunities. Did you know anyone can take AP classes too? You need to adjust your attitude or you have a long road ahead of you.

It’s not fair for the teachers, the students who can’t keep up or those who can. It’s a broken system

Anyone can take the class, but the rigor shouldn’t change. Let ‘em drown.

That's where I'm at as well. I don't think APS would let it happen though.

A kid who is drowning is probably struggling with MS generally. The intensified classes just aren't that much harder. If you do the work, you'll be fine. Maybe not an A, but not drowning.

That’s the point. They’ve watered down the advanced courses. I say, whatever, let anyone in who wants to join (some people may surprise you!), but let’s stop making them easier. Kids will either succeed, or not…

They just added the intensified classes--they're new. They haven't been around long enough to be watered down. Let's not make stuff up.

I'm happy if APS wants to make them harder, but that's somewhat hard to do when there's a policy that they can only cover the same content as the non-intensified version.

This is not the first year for intensified classes in HS. Take a seat.

I think the PP was talking about middle school. Intensified classes are pretty new in MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The system is much better now. Back when it was pullout the GT teachers gatekeeped to keep their caseloads small, and they left out a lot of kids who should have been identified.

My kid was overlooked. When I parent referred, they tested so high even the principal was wondering how they were missed.

It’s not better now, just bad in a different way. The reality is we need 3 options for students especially in middle school and up-remedial, regular, intensified/honors. No one wants their kid in the struggling section so that should be placement based on test scores, work samples and teacher feedback. Honors should be similar.

That is literally what we have now in middle school.

1. Not all subjects have a remedial option
2. Anyone can enroll in intensified, no scores needed

The core subjects have remedial options. Plus there are additional supports built-in to support struggling kids in grade-level classes.

Kids self select into intensified. And the enrollment is fluid - I know kids who have moved up and down during the school year.

How old are your kids? Which school(s)? Seems like you have young kids.

7th grader. I see the (sometimes frustrated)canvas messages his teachers send reminding students about test corrections and turning in assignments. Those kids are slowing things down. The teachers have to re-teach basic concepts in class. The problem is that anyone can sign up for them, even if the don’t have the scores or work ethic to support the placement.

Parents have always been able to parent place. That is nothing new.

When they added the intensified option it added an extra bucket for the bright, but less motivated kids to fall into. You end up with fewer slackers in intensified Algebra 1/Geometry than before the change.

Ok, but there are still parents inappropriately placing kids and there’s no more pull outs so it’s actually worse than before

There were never pullouts in middle school. That’s just not a thing. It’s gross that you think your kid is so special that you want to block other kids from the same opportunities. Did you know anyone can take AP classes too? You need to adjust your attitude or you have a long road ahead of you.

It’s not fair for the teachers, the students who can’t keep up or those who can. It’s a broken system

Anyone can take the class, but the rigor shouldn’t change. Let ‘em drown.

That's where I'm at as well. I don't think APS would let it happen though.

A kid who is drowning is probably struggling with MS generally. The intensified classes just aren't that much harder. If you do the work, you'll be fine. Maybe not an A, but not drowning.

I am thinking more of math placements myself. I think math placement should be determined by the office of academics, but so many parents want to say that their kid is in algebra when they’re in seventh grade or whatever… And that has been a disaster. I feel so sorry for those kids.

You must not have a kid in middle school. They use both math SOL scores and MAP scores to recommend MS math placement. There's no reason to have kids take another placement test. Those are the placement tests.

If you want to parent place, you have to speak to someone senior in the APS math department to get their agreement (or then send a letter explicitly going against their recommendation).

You can argue with whether APS is using the right cutoffs or shouldn't allow parent placement, but math is the only subject where placement is not at the kid's discretion. And my 6th grader's pre algebra teacher has said that he'll move kids down if they're not keeping up--it absolutely happens. I'm not sure this is a real issue.

My kid also reports kids were asked to leave a class that was too hard for them. These parents are just making up things to complain about. I'm guessing they are APEs, the opportunity hoarding fits.

+1