NCAP going downhill?

[Anonymous]

I think this sounds true in theory, but the swimmers who know at NCAP seem to train less up to the age of about 13, and then once they turn 13, if the kid is fast and wants it, they get down to business over there.

We have a very good swimmer who is now 12 at our RMSC site who left NCAP at age 11 because they would not move them into a more advanced training group until they got a bit older. 13 seems the magic number.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you've ever been down to Richmond for their meets you would be blown away by their facilities. Different market obviously, and they have it absolutely cornered. If you are a swimmer in that part of the world they will be your only destination.

Easier to pick-up real estate down there of course, but at their one location (an old Macy's converted into a dedicated NOVA facility) They have their own 50 meter long course pool, drylands right there on site, team store, and so on. I know RMSC has Rockville with a long course pool, but even they have to share that with all of the other things Montgomery County does there.

It would be hard to pull off what they have resource wise up here - but imagine the beauty and simplicity of just dropping your swimmer off at one singular building for everything they need, including meets since they can host meets of any size right there at home! Even better, they can practice anytime they want - it's their facility. We love it here and all, but man they have it figured out down there!

DMV is all about equity and doesn't want one area to look better than another so they throw the money to low ses and areas with illegals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you've ever been down to Richmond for their meets you would be blown away by their facilities. Different market obviously, and they have it absolutely cornered. If you are a swimmer in that part of the world they will be your only destination.

Easier to pick-up real estate down there of course, but at their one location (an old Macy's converted into a dedicated NOVA facility) They have their own 50 meter long course pool, drylands right there on site, team store, and so on. I know RMSC has Rockville with a long course pool, but even they have to share that with all of the other things Montgomery County does there.

It would be hard to pull off what they have resource wise up here - but imagine the beauty and simplicity of just dropping your swimmer off at one singular building for everything they need, including meets since they can host meets of any size right there at home! Even better, they can practice anytime they want - it's their facility. We love it here and all, but man they have it figured out down there!

We crashed a Virginia Swimming clinic a year or so ago, and I was in love with that facility. So smart, especially with the amount of malls going under these days. But Richmond traffic isn’t nothing, and my friends who live in Glen Allen have said the commute to the primary NOVA site is un-doable. Also, the young kids practice a lot more than the young kids at NCAP-Burke and NCAP-West. They have a set of 10 year old girls who are blowing the roof off the top 20 in the U.S. They always seem happy to train and be together, so NOVA may also just have the right kids in the right age groups and the right times.

The 9-10 girls at NOVA are pretty much a coincidence of strong talent all at the same age/gender, which is fed by stronger/faster swimmers moving to the team to join a cohort of similar talent. I don’t think it’s the result if some magical formula or coaching - if you look at their current 9-10 boys they are actually pretty weak compared to the other boys within the state/region and don’t hold a candle to the girls. NOVA had/has a similarly strong and talented group of 11-12 boys (they were amazing at NCSAs), some of them have aged up and some are still 12 now. Their 11-12 girls are not nearly as strong. Just the way it goes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think this sounds true in theory, but the swimmers who know at NCAP seem to train less up to the age of about 13, and then once they turn 13, if the kid is fast and wants it, they get down to business over there.

We have a very good swimmer who is now 12 at our RMSC site who left NCAP at age 11 because they would not move them into a more advanced training group until they got a bit older. 13 seems the magic number.

This is inline with USA Swimming guidance on Age Group swimmer development with the ADM model. Love that NCAP follows their guidance and doesn’t push kids too early. Prevents injuries and burnout and lets them be KIDS!
https://www.usaswimming.org/coaches-leaders/coaches/american-development-model

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this sounds true in theory, but the swimmers who know at NCAP seem to train less up to the age of about 13, and then once they turn 13, if the kid is fast and wants it, they get down to business over there.

We have a very good swimmer who is now 12 at our RMSC site who left NCAP at age 11 because they would not move them into a more advanced training group until they got a bit older. 13 seems the magic number.

This is inline with USA Swimming guidance on Age Group swimmer development with the ADM model. Love that NCAP follows their guidance and doesn’t push kids too early. Prevents injuries and burnout and lets them be KIDS!
https://www.usaswimming.org/coaches-leaders/coaches/american-development-model

And ASCA’s guidance https://www.gomotionapp.com/hskdsc/UserFiles/Image/Swim%20Library/PhasesofAthleteDevelopment.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That would make sense. They only have one pool and training site, that being Stone Ridge, so any swimmer they accept into the program has to be good enough to make what I imagine is a much more stringent cut right from the start. The RMSC's and NCAP's of the world are so big and have so many training sites that, yes, at the top they are phenomenal, but they are also really the only place a mid-level swimmer or swimmer who just enjoys the sport but does not make high level cuts can find a space for themselves, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Any kid who is willing to put in the time and loves the sport deserves a place and team to join. By definition huge swim clubs fulfill the role of carrying these kids and finding space for them in one of their groups, and they should. Sadly, ASA had to cut a bunch of kids when they lost their second training site at the Bolger Center, and I'm sure it's the last thing they wanted to do, but they really could only carry and develop their fastest kids moving forward. What choice did they have really. Can't blame them. We've tried to refer family friends with swimmers to ASA and they just could not take them in with only that one training site.

I can’t speak to ASA’s process, but if you read this board, you will know how incredibly difficult it is (particularly for kids age 9+) to get an RMSC offer. They aren’t taking the mid-level swimmers.

[Anonymous]

NCap can’t ride on the coat tails of Gemmell/Bacon/Ledecky forever or maybe they can bc parents don’t understand meet results and math!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That would make sense. They only have one pool and training site, that being Stone Ridge, so any swimmer they accept into the program has to be good enough to make what I imagine is a much more stringent cut right from the start. The RMSC's and NCAP's of the world are so big and have so many training sites that, yes, at the top they are phenomenal, but they are also really the only place a mid-level swimmer or swimmer who just enjoys the sport but does not make high level cuts can find a space for themselves, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Any kid who is willing to put in the time and loves the sport deserves a place and team to join. By definition huge swim clubs fulfill the role of carrying these kids and finding space for them in one of their groups, and they should. Sadly, ASA had to cut a bunch of kids when they lost their second training site at the Bolger Center, and I'm sure it's the last thing they wanted to do, but they really could only carry and develop their fastest kids moving forward. What choice did they have really. Can't blame them. We've tried to refer family friends with swimmers to ASA and they just could not take them in with only that one training site.

I can’t speak to ASA’s process, but if you read this board, you will know how incredibly difficult it is (particularly for kids age 9+) to get an RMSC offer. They aren’t taking the mid-level swimmers.

RMSC actually has plenty of mid-level swimmers, but those are generally the kids that joined when they were minis because once you make RMSC you never get cut. The ranks also seem to thin out a bit once you get into the senior level/HS groups because some of those kids that joined as minis but never progressed into advanced groups end up leaving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How much of the burnout is a result of parents who push too hard and care too much?

That is the question that should have been asked this weekend?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much of the burnout is a result of parents who push too hard and care too much?

That is the question that should have been asked this weekend?

??

[Anonymous]

Let's all say it together: NCap West and Burke are great.

NCap AU is not good, like at all-crazy they still even have that site. NCap

Prep is better but going downhill and losing swimmers.

If you can do the drive, go to Jeremy Lin. That is all you need to know about NCap

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let's all say it together: NCap West and Burke are great.

NCap AU is not good, like at all-crazy they still even have that site. NCap

Prep is better but going downhill and losing swimmers.

If you can do the drive, go to Jeremy Lin. That is all you need to know about NCap

The coaches at AU are awesome and have a stellar track record. The overall site is a little down at the moment, but they’ve produced elite results for 20 years; they’ll be back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's all say it together: NCap West and Burke are great.

NCap AU is not good, like at all-crazy they still even have that site. NCap

Prep is better but going downhill and losing swimmers.

If you can do the drive, go to Jeremy Lin. That is all you need to know about NCap

The coaches at AU are awesome and have a stellar track record. The overall site is a little down at the moment, but they’ve produced elite results for 20 years; they’ll be back.

Is the good distance swimmer who was there okay? My daughter noticed yesterday she wasn't at champs, then realized she hasn't seen/raced her all season.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let's all say it together: NCap West and Burke are great.

NCap AU is not good, like at all-crazy they still even have that site. NCap

Prep is better but going downhill and losing swimmers.

If you can do the drive, go to Jeremy Lin. That is all you need to know about NCap

What about the coaches at NCAP Nova (Marymount and Tysons combined site. Have a 14 year old with sectionals cuts and considering a switch. Burke and west are too far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's all say it together: NCap West and Burke are great.

NCap AU is not good, like at all-crazy they still even have that site. NCap

Prep is better but going downhill and losing swimmers.

If you can do the drive, go to Jeremy Lin. That is all you need to know about NCap

The coaches at AU are awesome and have a stellar track record. The overall site is a little down at the moment, but they’ve produced elite results for 20 years; they’ll be back.

Is the good distance swimmer who was there okay? My daughter noticed yesterday she wasn't at champs, then realized she hasn't seen/raced her all season.

Torn ACL injury & subsequent surgery.