down's child at preschool...concerned

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh, and if my kid had a gentle child with DS in his class, plus a blind child and a child with no legs and a mute child and a couple of LD kids, that would be lovely. All SNs are not identical in their impact on the other kids.

The problem is the kicking, shouting, bouncing, shoving kids when they reach a ratio of 6:24. See because then, nobody's learning squat. I find that not A-OK

This is nice - so kids who have disorders that make them docile are just fine.....screw the rest of the kids. You have NO CLUE. May your perfect child never have any real issues. Otherwise, what would you do??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh, and if my kid had a gentle child with DS in his class, plus a blind child and a child with no legs and a mute child and a couple of LD kids, that would be lovely. All SNs are not identical in their impact on the other kids.

The problem is the kicking, shouting, bouncing, shoving kids when they reach a ratio of 6:24. See because then, nobody's learning squat. I find that not A-OK

I agree. Disability or not, this kind of behavior inhibitis the ability of the rest of the class to learn, particularly when there are several kids with this issue. The schools really need to find a way to handle these issues in way that doesn't impair my child's ability to learn in the class. Accomodations are fine. But not at the great expense of everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, and if my kid had a gentle child with DS in his class, plus a blind child and a child with no legs and a mute child and a couple of LD kids, that would be lovely. All SNs are not identical in their impact on the other kids.

The problem is the kicking, shouting, bouncing, shoving kids when they reach a ratio of 6:24. See because then, nobody's learning squat. I find that not A-OK

I agree. Disability or not, this kind of behavior inhibitis the ability of the rest of the class to learn, particularly when there are several kids with this issue. The schools really need to find a way to handle these issues in way that doesn't impair my child's ability to learn in the class. Accomodations are fine. But not at the great expense of everyone else.

Just wondering what you think should be done with these children?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, and if my kid had a gentle child with DS in his class, plus a blind child and a child with no legs and a mute child and a couple of LD kids, that would be lovely. All SNs are not identical in their impact on the other kids.

The problem is the kicking, shouting, bouncing, shoving kids when they reach a ratio of 6:24. See because then, nobody's learning squat. I find that not A-OK

I agree. Disability or not, this kind of behavior inhibitis the ability of the rest of the class to learn, particularly when there are several kids with this issue. The schools really need to find a way to handle these issues in way that doesn't impair my child's ability to learn in the class. Accomodations are fine. But not at the great expense of everyone else.

Just wondering what you think should be done with these children?

How about the posters that don't want these children in the class with their children, pay for them to go to an expensive special needs school. Like the one I can't afford to send my child too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, and if my kid had a gentle child with DS in his class, plus a blind child and a child with no legs and a mute child and a couple of LD kids, that would be lovely. All SNs are not identical in their impact on the other kids.

The problem is the kicking, shouting, bouncing, shoving kids when they reach a ratio of 6:24. See because then, nobody's learning squat. I find that not A-OK

This is nice - so kids who have disorders that make them docile are just fine.....screw the rest of the kids. You have NO CLUE. May your perfect child never have any real issues. Otherwise, what would you do??

Not the pp. But my 2nd child is about to start school and yes, I think he may be one of the shouty, bouncy, shoving kids and I fear for him and his teacher. But b/c he is my 2nd, I have experience being on both sides b/c my 1st is the teacher's ideal student. Sits quietly, listens, follows directions, etc... And I've been annoyed when she says she can't learn b/c of the disruptive kids. I think the schools DO need to consider that more aides and smaller classes are necessary for ALL children to learn optimally. But, the PP is right that the 6:24 ratio does NOT work. I want both my kids in successful learning environments and smaller (<20) classes with 2 teachers (1 reg 1 sp ed) would be the best way to manage it, IMO.

[Anonymous]

OK, I have to speak up here.

Yes, OP is not educated on how classrooms work, nor is she familiar with children with different needs. She had some questions about it. Clearly she is now aware that she is a terrible monster. I think that doesn't need to be said anymore.

But I'm going to speak from the world of reality. Children can have different disorders that make them disruptive to a classroom. Down Syndrome is one of those disorders. There are many others. It doesn't mean that a child with DS will necessarily be there way. Chances are they are fairly high functioning if they are in preschool.

HOWEVER, just as the OP is not well-educated on DS, neither are many of the people on this post. Yes, some children with DS are fairly similar to other kids at that age (for most this will change as they get older). Many are smart, very warm, and friendly. But others are not as functioning, cannot attend school, and have many other physical and cognitive problems.

To the people who say they would "choose" Down Syndrome if they had to pick a disorder, please understand that there is a large range of outcomes within the spectrum. It is possible that OP is only familiar with someone with DC who was not at all high-functioning, just as many of you are only familiar with individuals who are.

In other words, why don't we just get off our high horses, answer her questions, educate her about how to deal with this specific situation, and move on with our day??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:]

So when MY kid's classroom experience is substantially diminished because of constant disruption from too many documented, IEP'd, 504'd kids, my compassion wears thin. When MY kid comes home after being hit and kicked by a kid with "intense SPD," I care more about my kid's retina than the heartache of the other kid's mom.

What would you like us to do with our documented, IEP'd 504'd kids????????????? Please, tell me our options. Because trust me - it ain't easy for our kids or for us either. Stand in my shoes for a week and see where you'd rather be. The options for our "documented" kids are not many. Keep that in mind. I'd rather not have to deal with parents like you - trust me.

We have recently learned that our child may have issues that require accommodation down the road (she's still an infant, so we're in the very early stages of evaluation). I expect that I will learn and become intimately familiar with documentation, IEPs and 504 if needed, because my job is to advocate for my child to have the best possible educational experience possible. Why is it considered wrong for a parent of a non-SN child to want the same thing, and ask as many questions and prod as much as possible to insure that her child also reaches his/her full potential?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:]

So when MY kid's classroom experience is substantially diminished because of constant disruption from too many documented, IEP'd, 504'd kids, my compassion wears thin. When MY kid comes home after being hit and kicked by a kid with "intense SPD," I care more about my kid's retina than the heartache of the other kid's mom.

What would you like us to do with our documented, IEP'd 504'd kids????????????? Please, tell me our options. Because trust me - it ain't easy for our kids or for us either. Stand in my shoes for a week and see where you'd rather be. The options for our "documented" kids are not many. Keep that in mind. I'd rather not have to deal with parents like you - trust me.

We have recently learned that our child may have issues that require accommodation down the road (she's still an infant, so we're in the very early stages of evaluation). I expect that I will learn and become intimately familiar with documentation, IEPs and 504 if needed, because my job is to advocate for my child to have the best possible educational experience possible. Why is it considered wrong for a parent of a non-SN child to want the same thing, and ask as many questions and prod as much as possible to insure that her child also reaches his/her full potential?

I am the poster w/ a high achieving, well behaved 1st born and a struggling, disruptive 2nd born. I expect by 2nd will be getting IEP or 504 eventually. But I advocate equally for BOTH my children, even though it feels strange at times b/c I am switching btwn both sides of the fence. But my 1st is equally deserving of a high quality education as my 2nd. Her needs are NOT subordinate to my 2nd's nor to any other child w/ needs in her class, documented or otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with 10:39...presume the OP is coming from good intent, but focused on what's best for her child. If I don't have familiarity with how decisions are made about mainstreaming children (is that the correct word?) with SN, how do I know how/if it's going to impact my child? Why is it wrong to seek information, especially in the safety of an anonymous forum?

When a teacher has limited time and resources to devote to a classroom, even in preschool, it's not unreasonable to ask whether there will be a child (with SN or just a particularly disruptive kid) who will demand more than "his fair share" of the teacher's attention to the detriment of the other kids in the class? OP is seeking information. Did she say "I don't want no damn retarded kid in my kid's class" which would obviously be the sign of a troll trying to pick a fight. No, she didn't. So why can't we all presume that she isn't just a mom trying to learn about something she's unfamiliar with that might or might not impact her own child?

I agree. I think my first reaction would be all the questions OP is asking, and yeah, I would be embarrassed to ask those questions out loud except to really close friends. Some people gave some good feedback, such as the poster who shared her child's classroom experience with another child with DS. I don't know why some parents think we should all be educated about DS by now. I've never met or been exposed to anyone with DS, and have had been interested in learning about it. Instead of putting down ignorant parnets on this topic (such as myself), it would help tremendously to talk to us and give us the information we lack. You can continue to act disgusted by our questions and call out names. That will do nothing to change our opinions. Maybe we'll find more justification in our questions since you can't even give us a reason why we're off base except for the fact you think we're "stupid" or whatever. I find OP's questions more legitimate than the posters who say they'd rather have class with DS kids vs. other SN needs.

[Anonymous]

We have recently learned that our child may have issues that require accommodation down the road (she's still an infant, so we're in the very early stages of evaluation). I expect that I will learn and become intimately familiar with documentation, IEPs and 504 if needed, because my job is to advocate for my child to have the best possible educational experience possible. Why is it considered wrong for a parent of a non-SN child to want the same thing, and ask as many questions and prod as much as possible to insure that her child also reaches his/her full potential?

I am one of the PP's. Of course it is not wrong to advocate for your child - it is expected. What is wrong is the insinuation or outright assertion that these "disruptive" children (SN) do not BELONG in the classroom. Keep in mind that many of these kids with SPD and other disruptive behaviors are also academically GIFTED. Double dilemma for us. These kids need more social/emotional support but also more challenging work. I was simply asking what the solution is. I think we all agree that smaller classrooms and smaller student/teacher ratios are the answer - but that's not happening. Those of us with SN kids advocate for this ALL THE TIME. I strongly encourage those of you with typically developing children to advocate for the same. Unless there is another/better solution.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I would much rather my kid be in a preschool, or K,1, 2 class, with a single child who has Down's than with all these disruptive ADHD, ASD and intensely disruptive SPD kids. It seems like 1/3 of this class cannot sit still and shouts out constantly -- and this is all A-OK.


Consider yourself lucky that your child doesn't have any of these issues, PP. Where did you get the idea that this is all "A-OK"? Spend a few moments on the special needs board and you will see that it's anything but A-OK for the parents who are heartsick with worry and doing everything in their power to help their children succeed in the school environment despite major challenges.

I'm the PP you quoted. I actually agree that almost all of the parents of most disruptive SPD, ASD, ADHD, PPD-NOD kids love their children and experience heartache sometimes over their kids. I'm sure they do 'everything in their power' to help their kids.

I don't actually care about that, not much anyway. What -I- care about the very most is the experience of MY CHILD in the classroom. How is HIS day-to-day experience?

Any mom who claims that she doesn't care the most about her own kid's classroom experience vs. some other kid's classroom experience is lying.

So when MY kid's classroom experience is substantially diminished because of constant disruption from too many documented, IEP'd, 504'd kids, my compassion wears thin. When MY kid comes home after being hit and kicked by a kid with "intense SPD," I care more about my kid's retina than the heartache of the other kid's mom.

PP here...I do see your point. I guess your post hit a nerve because it seemed insensitive but I have a shy, soft-spoken child who is starting K on Monday and I would be very upset if he was hit or kicked in class. Don't know what the solution is but I have empathy for both sides.

[Anonymous]

When a teacher has limited time and resources to devote to a classroom, even in preschool, it's not unreasonable to ask whether there will be a child (with SN or just a particularly disruptive kid) who will demand more than "his fair share" of the teacher's attention to the detriment of the other kids in the class? OP is seeking information. Did she say "I don't want no damn retarded kid in my kid's class" which would obviously be the sign of a troll trying to pick a fight. No, she didn't. So why can't we all presume that she isn't just a mom trying to learn about something she's unfamiliar with that might or might not impact her own child?

Of course we all care most about our own child's experience in any given classroom situation. But we all do or should recognize that, unless we're home schooling, the classroom does NOT revolve around our particular child.

And frankly, for all those of you who are chiming in with "similar" concerns about the potential problems caused by mainstreaming kids with special needs, let's be clear what the context of the OP's angst was: a coop preschool. Where kids go for a couple of hours a day to learn how to share, how to function in a group setting, and why not to eat paste. Something tells me that a child with Downs isn't likely to bring down the overall level of educating going at this stage... probably just the opposite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

a coop preschool. Where kids go for a couple of hours a day to learn how to share, how to function in a group setting, and why not to eat paste. Something tells me that a child with Downs isn't likely to bring down the overall level of educating going at this stage... probably just the opposite.

Amen, sister. This is the perfect opportunity for typical and special needs kids to learn from each other.!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Of course we all care most about our own child's experience in any given classroom situation. But we all do or should recognize that, unless we're home schooling, the classroom does NOT revolve around our particular child.

16:05 -- You're right, it doesn't revolve around our particular child. I think the OP, and others' concern, is that it doesn't revolve around someone else's child either.

[Anonymous]

Of course we all care most about our own child's experience in any given classroom situation. But we all do or should recognize that, unless we're home schooling, the classroom does NOT revolve around our particular child.


16:05 -- You're right, it doesn't revolve around our particular child. I think the OP, and others' concern, is that it doesn't revolve around someone else's child either.

But what exactly would make you or the OP assume that A COOP PRESCHOOL CLASS would wind up revolving around the fact that there is a child with DS? Seriously even if this is a more severely impaired child, how exactly would his or her cognitive delays impact a class filled with "normal" kids who are just mastering the art of not picking their nose? I think it would be fair to want to understand the arrangements for SN in a college prep class... I just think that anyone who has a toddler should understand by now that preschool is about kids learning to function in social situations, and there's really no curricular issue at stake in having kids of different abilities in a that kind of educational experience. That seems so obvious to me that I really can't believe anyone would have posed the question in a sincere fashion.