Should a master's degree be required for teachers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think teachers should be required to do student teaching and a few courses prior to teaching. Alternative certification programs don’t all do this so you have teachers in classrooms with zero experience at all. That’s not okay.

I’m a teacher who came through an alternative program. I am now a mentor teacher and I speak district-wide about classroom management, assessment, and curriculum development.

There are many of us who came into teaching this way, and we are extremely successful.

In our district, the majority of teachers who come through alternative programs leave within 2-3 yrs. They are not prepared and spend the first few years doing what they would've done during student teaching except they don't have nearly as much support. They are building the plane as they fly it. Would this be accepted for other professions? To have no previous experience experience at all or any coursework?

Then you have a bad program.

Everybody is building the plane as they fly it their first year. I’ve had this conversation with coworkers who came through traditional ed programs. Student teaching is not the same as having your own classroom. Year 1 is hard on everybody.

And you are discrediting the myriad of experiences career changers bring to the profession. My career prior to teaching prepped me for the long hours, the organization, the interpersonal communication, etc.

Frankly, some of the strongest teachers I know started the same way I did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If anyone is interested in learning about what really makes a difference in education, read John Hattie's Visible Learning.

Yeah…educators are moving on from that. Hattie’s methodology wasn’t great, and the studies he analyzed weren’t always great. He comes to conclusions like “class size doesn’t matter,” when any teacher or parent can tell you that large classes are often full of distractions and behavior issues. They also contribute to teacher burnout and high turnover, which we know negatively affects education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think teachers should be required to do student teaching and a few courses prior to teaching. Alternative certification programs don’t all do this so you have teachers in classrooms with zero experience at all. That’s not okay.

I’m a teacher who came through an alternative program. I am now a mentor teacher and I speak district-wide about classroom management, assessment, and curriculum development.

There are many of us who came into teaching this way, and we are extremely successful.

In our district, the majority of teachers who come through alternative programs leave within 2-3 yrs. They are not prepared and spend the first few years doing what they would've done during student teaching except they don't have nearly as much support. They are building the plane as they fly it. Would this be accepted for other professions? To have no previous experience experience at all or any coursework?

Then you have a bad program.

Everybody is building the plane as they fly it their first year. I’ve had this conversation with coworkers who came through traditional ed programs. Student teaching is not the same as having your own classroom. Year 1 is hard on everybody.

And you are discrediting the myriad of experiences career changers bring to the profession. My career prior to teaching prepped me for the long hours, the organization, the interpersonal communication, etc.

Frankly, some of the strongest teachers I know started the same way I did.

How nice for you. One of my kid's worst teachers was a second career former engineer who was not good at teaching.

No, student teaching is not the same as having your own classroom, but spending a year(ish) working in tandem with an experienced teacher is a huge benefit.

[Anonymous]

I could carless what pedigree the teachers have so long as they are not burned out, engaging, welcome the use of modern technologies, and overall good people.

Too many teachers struggle with power/ego and are just showing up like zombies ready to read from the book.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think teachers should be required to do student teaching and a few courses prior to teaching. Alternative certification programs don’t all do this so you have teachers in classrooms with zero experience at all. That’s not okay.

I’m a teacher who came through an alternative program. I am now a mentor teacher and I speak district-wide about classroom management, assessment, and curriculum development.

There are many of us who came into teaching this way, and we are extremely successful.

In our district, the majority of teachers who come through alternative programs leave within 2-3 yrs. They are not prepared and spend the first few years doing what they would've done during student teaching except they don't have nearly as much support. They are building the plane as they fly it. Would this be accepted for other professions? To have no previous experience experience at all or any coursework?

Then you have a bad program.

Everybody is building the plane as they fly it their first year. I’ve had this conversation with coworkers who came through traditional ed programs. Student teaching is not the same as having your own classroom. Year 1 is hard on everybody.

And you are discrediting the myriad of experiences career changers bring to the profession. My career prior to teaching prepped me for the long hours, the organization, the interpersonal communication, etc.

Frankly, some of the strongest teachers I know started the same way I did.

How nice for you. One of my kid's worst teachers was a second career former engineer who was not good at teaching.

No, student teaching is not the same as having your own classroom, but spending a year(ish) working in tandem with an experienced teacher is a huge benefit.

And my child’s worst teacher by far was an education major who came through a traditional education program.

I posted above about coming through one of these programs. I did student teach for 3 months before I had my own classroom. Many of these alternative route programs include a student teaching component.

Being a good teacher or a bad teacher has a lot to do with your traits, which can’t be taught in a class. Are you engaging? Are you able to connect with people? Can you remain organized when your job pulls you 20 different ways? Can’t be taught.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, a masters should be required, and pay should start at 80K for a 40-hour week.

Why do you hate science?

I have alwys hated science. Soooo boring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think teachers should be required to do student teaching and a few courses prior to teaching. Alternative certification programs don’t all do this so you have teachers in classrooms with zero experience at all. That’s not okay.

I’m a teacher who came through an alternative program. I am now a mentor teacher and I speak district-wide about classroom management, assessment, and curriculum development.

There are many of us who came into teaching this way, and we are extremely successful.

In our district, the majority of teachers who come through alternative programs leave within 2-3 yrs. They are not prepared and spend the first few years doing what they would've done during student teaching except they don't have nearly as much support. They are building the plane as they fly it. Would this be accepted for other professions? To have no previous experience experience at all or any coursework?

Then you have a bad program.

Everybody is building the plane as they fly it their first year. I’ve had this conversation with coworkers who came through traditional ed programs. Student teaching is not the same as having your own classroom. Year 1 is hard on everybody.

And you are discrediting the myriad of experiences career changers bring to the profession. My career prior to teaching prepped me for the long hours, the organization, the interpersonal communication, etc.

Frankly, some of the strongest teachers I know started the same way I did.

How nice for you. One of my kid's worst teachers was a second career former engineer who was not good at teaching.

No, student teaching is not the same as having your own classroom, but spending a year(ish) working in tandem with an experienced teacher is a huge benefit.

And my child’s worst teacher by far was an education major who came through a traditional education program.

I posted above about coming through one of these programs. I did student teach for 3 months before I had my own classroom. Many of these alternative route programs include a student teaching component.

Being a good teacher or a bad teacher has a lot to do with your traits, which can’t be taught in a class. Are you engaging? Are you able to connect with people? Can you remain organized when your job pulls you 20 different ways? Can’t be taught.

None of the people at my school coming through alternative programs had any student teaching prior to starting. That was the problem. They had no idea at all what to do. I would tell the one I worked with that she needed to think of the entire school day and write down procedures for each transition (this was kindergarten). She couldn't understand why she needed to do this. Her classroom was complete mayhem most of the year. I ended up pulling my students out every time I came to her room.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think teachers should be required to do student teaching and a few courses prior to teaching. Alternative certification programs don’t all do this so you have teachers in classrooms with zero experience at all. That’s not okay.

I’m a teacher who came through an alternative program. I am now a mentor teacher and I speak district-wide about classroom management, assessment, and curriculum development.

There are many of us who came into teaching this way, and we are extremely successful.

In our district, the majority of teachers who come through alternative programs leave within 2-3 yrs. They are not prepared and spend the first few years doing what they would've done during student teaching except they don't have nearly as much support. They are building the plane as they fly it. Would this be accepted for other professions? To have no previous experience experience at all or any coursework?

Then you have a bad program.

Everybody is building the plane as they fly it their first year. I’ve had this conversation with coworkers who came through traditional ed programs. Student teaching is not the same as having your own classroom. Year 1 is hard on everybody.

And you are discrediting the myriad of experiences career changers bring to the profession. My career prior to teaching prepped me for the long hours, the organization, the interpersonal communication, etc.

Frankly, some of the strongest teachers I know started the same way I did.

How nice for you. One of my kid's worst teachers was a second career former engineer who was not good at teaching.

No, student teaching is not the same as having your own classroom, but spending a year(ish) working in tandem with an experienced teacher is a huge benefit.

And my child’s worst teacher by far was an education major who came through a traditional education program.

I posted above about coming through one of these programs. I did student teach for 3 months before I had my own classroom. Many of these alternative route programs include a student teaching component.

Being a good teacher or a bad teacher has a lot to do with your traits, which can’t be taught in a class. Are you engaging? Are you able to connect with people? Can you remain organized when your job pulls you 20 different ways? Can’t be taught.

None of the people at my school coming through alternative programs had any student teaching prior to starting. That was the problem. They had no idea at all what to do. I would tell the one I worked with that she needed to think of the entire school day and write down procedures for each transition (this was kindergarten). She couldn't understand why she needed to do this. Her classroom was complete mayhem most of the year. I ended up pulling my students out every time I came to her room.

But no one teaches you that stuff in a graduate education program either. Or any program. Not having a disorganized class comes from experience and on the job learning - and unfortunately, many experienced teachers with teaching degrees never learn it. I was an alternative route teacher (although I came from community college teaching, so not really that alternative) and except for my first year (which was about as bad as everyone's first year, student teaching or no) I was known as a very good teacher.

And anyway, you still have to have all the same classes in order to get an alternative certificate. When I finished, I had more than the equivalent of a master's degree in education in credits. But that's not where I learned much of importance in the classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think teachers should be required to do student teaching and a few courses prior to teaching. Alternative certification programs don’t all do this so you have teachers in classrooms with zero experience at all. That’s not okay.

I’m a teacher who came through an alternative program. I am now a mentor teacher and I speak district-wide about classroom management, assessment, and curriculum development.

There are many of us who came into teaching this way, and we are extremely successful.

In our district, the majority of teachers who come through alternative programs leave within 2-3 yrs. They are not prepared and spend the first few years doing what they would've done during student teaching except they don't have nearly as much support. They are building the plane as they fly it. Would this be accepted for other professions? To have no previous experience experience at all or any coursework?

Then you have a bad program.

Everybody is building the plane as they fly it their first year. I’ve had this conversation with coworkers who came through traditional ed programs. Student teaching is not the same as having your own classroom. Year 1 is hard on everybody.

And you are discrediting the myriad of experiences career changers bring to the profession. My career prior to teaching prepped me for the long hours, the organization, the interpersonal communication, etc.

Frankly, some of the strongest teachers I know started the same way I did.

How nice for you. One of my kid's worst teachers was a second career former engineer who was not good at teaching.

No, student teaching is not the same as having your own classroom, but spending a year(ish) working in tandem with an experienced teacher is a huge benefit.

And my child’s worst teacher by far was an education major who came through a traditional education program.

I posted above about coming through one of these programs. I did student teach for 3 months before I had my own classroom. Many of these alternative route programs include a student teaching component.

Being a good teacher or a bad teacher has a lot to do with your traits, which can’t be taught in a class. Are you engaging? Are you able to connect with people? Can you remain organized when your job pulls you 20 different ways? Can’t be taught.

None of the people at my school coming through alternative programs had any student teaching prior to starting. That was the problem. They had no idea at all what to do. I would tell the one I worked with that she needed to think of the entire school day and write down procedures for each transition (this was kindergarten). She couldn't understand why she needed to do this. Her classroom was complete mayhem most of the year. I ended up pulling my students out every time I came to her room.

But no one teaches you that stuff in a graduate education program either. Or any program. Not having a disorganized class comes from experience and on the job learning - and unfortunately, many experienced teachers with teaching degrees never learn it. I was an alternative route teacher (although I came from community college teaching, so not really that alternative) and except for my first year (which was about as bad as everyone's first year, student teaching or no) I was known as a very good teacher.

And anyway, you still have to have all the same classes in order to get an alternative certificate. When I finished, I had more than the equivalent of a master's degree in education in credits. But that's not where I learned much of importance in the classroom.

Not true at all. One of my courses as a Master's student was classroom management and discipline. It was probably one of the most useful courses I take. We had to write out step by step each procedure of the day. How do students enter the classroom, what do they do when they sit down, what are the procedures for lining students up, bathroom procedures, how do students answer questions, how do they get their materials, etc. The devil is in the details and a person just walking into a classroom hasn't thought about any of them. Many, many behavior issues in lower elementary school (and probably other grades) stem from not teaching students all of these procedures. Ex: A new teacher with a group of first graders tells the students to line up. A bunch of (mostly) boys run as fast as they can to get to the front of the line because that's what 6-7 yr old boys do. One falls and hits himself on the chalk ledge and another shoves someone out of his way. Chaos ensues. Multiply this by every single thing that happens in a classroom in a day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think teachers should be required to do student teaching and a few courses prior to teaching. Alternative certification programs don’t all do this so you have teachers in classrooms with zero experience at all. That’s not okay.

I’m a teacher who came through an alternative program. I am now a mentor teacher and I speak district-wide about classroom management, assessment, and curriculum development.

There are many of us who came into teaching this way, and we are extremely successful.

In our district, the majority of teachers who come through alternative programs leave within 2-3 yrs. They are not prepared and spend the first few years doing what they would've done during student teaching except they don't have nearly as much support. They are building the plane as they fly it. Would this be accepted for other professions? To have no previous experience experience at all or any coursework?

Then you have a bad program.

Everybody is building the plane as they fly it their first year. I’ve had this conversation with coworkers who came through traditional ed programs. Student teaching is not the same as having your own classroom. Year 1 is hard on everybody.

And you are discrediting the myriad of experiences career changers bring to the profession. My career prior to teaching prepped me for the long hours, the organization, the interpersonal communication, etc.

Frankly, some of the strongest teachers I know started the same way I did.

How nice for you. One of my kid's worst teachers was a second career former engineer who was not good at teaching.

No, student teaching is not the same as having your own classroom, but spending a year(ish) working in tandem with an experienced teacher is a huge benefit.

And my child’s worst teacher by far was an education major who came through a traditional education program.

I posted above about coming through one of these programs. I did student teach for 3 months before I had my own classroom. Many of these alternative route programs include a student teaching component.

Being a good teacher or a bad teacher has a lot to do with your traits, which can’t be taught in a class. Are you engaging? Are you able to connect with people? Can you remain organized when your job pulls you 20 different ways? Can’t be taught.

None of the people at my school coming through alternative programs had any student teaching prior to starting. That was the problem. They had no idea at all what to do. I would tell the one I worked with that she needed to think of the entire school day and write down procedures for each transition (this was kindergarten). She couldn't understand why she needed to do this. Her classroom was complete mayhem most of the year. I ended up pulling my students out every time I came to her room.

But no one teaches you that stuff in a graduate education program either. Or any program. Not having a disorganized class comes from experience and on the job learning - and unfortunately, many experienced teachers with teaching degrees never learn it. I was an alternative route teacher (although I came from community college teaching, so not really that alternative) and except for my first year (which was about as bad as everyone's first year, student teaching or no) I was known as a very good teacher.

And anyway, you still have to have all the same classes in order to get an alternative certificate. When I finished, I had more than the equivalent of a master's degree in education in credits. But that's not where I learned much of importance in the classroom.

Not true at all. One of my courses as a Master's student was classroom management and discipline. It was probably one of the most useful courses I take. We had to write out step by step each procedure of the day. How do students enter the classroom, what do they do when they sit down, what are the procedures for lining students up, bathroom procedures, how do students answer questions, how do they get their materials, etc. The devil is in the details and a person just walking into a classroom hasn't thought about any of them. Many, many behavior issues in lower elementary school (and probably other grades) stem from not teaching students all of these procedures. Ex: A new teacher with a group of first graders tells the students to line up. A bunch of (mostly) boys run as fast as they can to get to the front of the line because that's what 6-7 yr old boys do. One falls and hits himself on the chalk ledge and another shoves someone out of his way. Chaos ensues. Multiply this by every single thing that happens in a classroom in a day.

DP. I didn’t need a classroom management course to tell me how to do this. I outlined policies and procedures on my own prior to my first year in the classroom. I talked to other teachers, independently read books, drew on my own experiences, etc.

I came through an alternative route program. I had to take some classes for credit as part of the program, including classroom management. What I learned in the classroom paled in comparison to what I learned on the job. Frankly, the education courses came across as busywork. It was talking about teaching instead of DOING it. Half the time, what the instructor taught wouldn’t work in my classroom situation anyway. Not to mention it was taught by somebody who hadn’t been in a high school classroom for years, so I didn’t have a lot of faith in the instructor’s experience. I got much better advice from practicing teachers during prep week.

[Anonymous]

That's good for you but after seeing teachers coming into my school from alternative programs for a good 20+ yrs, most of them don't have a clue how to manage a classroom. That's usually why many of them quit the first year or don't return. They shouldn't be learning on the job when the job is teaching. At the very least, they should do a student teaching practicum prior to taking over their own classroom. Maybe the mentor teachers can start off the year and slowly hand it over to the teacher or something like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That's good for you but after seeing teachers coming into my school from alternative programs for a good 20+ yrs, most of them don't have a clue how to manage a classroom. That's usually why many of them quit the first year or don't return. They shouldn't be learning on the job when the job is teaching. At the very least, they should do a student teaching practicum prior to taking over their own classroom. Maybe the mentor teachers can start off the year and slowly hand it over to the teacher or something like that.

I’m a highly successful career changer. I’ve been teaching for many years and I’ve mentored many teachers (close to 30), both from traditional education degree programs and from alternative route programs.

What makes a teacher successful isn’t the program. It’s the ability to acclimate quickly to the demands of the first year. How willing are they to listen to the advice of practicing teachers? How quickly can they bounce back from setbacks? How well do they “act” in front of a class, drawing on communication and performance skills?

Both sets seem unprepared for their own classroom, just in different ways. Career changers tend to have more confidence and their own sets of experience as a new employee, which helps them acclimate quickly. Ed program graduates know the lingo better and have more practice making lesson plans, developing classroom routines, etc. But both types still struggle. I’ve seen both types quit, and I’ve seen both types become successful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Considering there is a teacher shortage, no. Adding this requirement would causes problems for school districts. Teachers with masters should get paid more.

They do.

Not in Baltimore City they don’t.

Nor should they. Baltimore kids are failing basic math

Which has absolutely nothing to do with whether their teacher has a masters degree or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Florida and Louisiana have the fewest teachers with master's degrees and dreadful schools. NY, CT and MD have much better schools overall.

The fact That states like FL and LA have terrible schools is based on systemic issues and fundamental inequalities in education, as well as poverty levels and a host of other issues. It is not because their teachers don’t have masters degrees. The teacher you have has way less effect on your educational outcomes in life than the type of circumstances you live in from birth and what kind of access you have to education in a broader sense.