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Continued from above:
Here's a slightly more positive view, using further Florida data. They think maybe a master's degree isn't worthless in conjunction with middle school math, though the degree causes a negative impact for MS & HS reading, and do caution that there's further potential for negative effects while the teacher is obtaining the degree, as it takes time and energy away from the classroom. On the other hand, what they do not seem to mention in the text were the results in table 12 showing slight negative impact of master's degree on elementary school math performance and the huge negative impact on HS math performance, which was twice the size of the positive impact seen in MS. This suggests to me that the middle school result isn't actually real. https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED509656.pdf "We consider the impact of advanced degrees in Table 12. Since our model includes teacher fixed effects, post-baccalaureate degrees earned prior to the period of analysis wash out when we demean the data. Thus our approach measures the impact of changes in the possession of an advanced degree (for a given teacher) during the period of study.20 [Note 20 The estimated coefficient on the advanced-degree variable measures the average productivity differential between the time before and the time after receipt of the degree. Before the degree is received some knowledge may have already been acquired through coursework already completed, thus biasing the estimated effect toward zero. However, work toward an advanced degree may take away from time available for class preparation and other teaching-related activities, which would tend to lower productivity before receipt of the degree and upwardly bias the estimated impact of the degree.] Our results indicate that obtaining an advanced degree during one’s teaching career is positively correlated with teacher productivity only in the case of middle school math. For elementary teachers there is no correlation between receipt of an advanced degree and performance. For middle school reading teachers and both math and reading high school teachers there is actually a significant negative association between attainment of an advanced degree and measured productivity. This may be because graduate degrees include a combination of pedagogy and content and our other evidence suggests that only the latter has a positive influence on teacher productivity. Other explanations for the graduate degree results arise from issues of methodology. Most previous studies suffer from selection bias, as noted earlier, and our solution is to study the effects of graduate degree attainment within teachers using teacher fixed effects. However, this approach imposes the implicit assumption that the receipt of the graduate degree reflects a sudden infusion of new preparation. In reality, the receipt of the degree is the culmination of several years of graduate courses whose influence may already be reflected in the teacher effects, especially for those teachers who take graduate courses over many years before receiving a graduate degree. Another possibility is that teachers load up on courses in the academic year preceding the receipt of the degree and therefore have less time to devote to their students. We found evidence above of such a contemporaneous decline in productivity when we considered the effects of other forms of professional development" --- Anyway, I think it's also worth pointing out that the various 'higher education is worthless at best when it comes to teacher effectiveness' papers should be regarded as an admission against interest. Professors are typically strongly biased towards higher education. |
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cont:
I do think that it might be *possible* to have a master's education degree that is not worthless-to-harmful, but that is not generally what we have now. There are some potentially bright spots: Mississippi, for example, has spent a lot of effort pushing its local Schools of Education to train their students in how to teach reading effectively -- an emphasis on phonics instead of Balanced Literacy and suchlike. |
| If anyone is interested in learning about what really makes a difference in education, read John Hattie's Visible Learning. |
| Yes, a masters should be required, and pay should start at 80K for a 40-hour week. |
Why do you hate science? |
| Florida and Louisiana have the fewest teachers with master's degrees and dreadful schools. NY, CT and MD have much better schools overall. |
Professors at ed schools anyway. Bu they tend to be the black sheep of the academic world. A lot of academics in the liberal arts and sciences don't really respect the ed schools or much of what passes for teacher education. |
| Teachers in those OP mentioned states are not required to have a masters when they first begin working. It is a requirement to get a certain license. |
With a basic adjustment for racial demographics, Florida's NAEP scores are among the highest in the country, which suggests that it's possible you are wrong about how dreadful their schools are: https://apps.urban.org/features/naep/ It's important to look at value-add when you're talking about education. I mean, you live in this area, right? You should be familiar with mediocre local schools that look amazeballs because they coast on their students' parents' SES and willingness to drive their darlings to Kumon. |
| I think teachers should be required to do student teaching and a few courses prior to teaching. Alternative certification programs don’t all do this so you have teachers in classrooms with zero experience at all. That’s not okay. |
I’m a teacher who came through an alternative program. I am now a mentor teacher and I speak district-wide about classroom management, assessment, and curriculum development. There are many of us who came into teaching this way, and we are extremely successful. |
In our district, the majority of teachers who come through alternative programs leave within 2-3 yrs. They are not prepared and spend the first few years doing what they would've done during student teaching except they don't have nearly as much support. They are building the plane as they fly it. Would this be accepted for other professions? To have no previous experience experience at all or any coursework? |
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Yeah, teaching is only viewed as a semi-profession for some reason. Look at the tech executives who all think they have "solutions" to education even though they have no teaching experience. This includes Bloomberg, Gates and Zuckerberg.
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Goodness, no. I have two masters degrees (one to get my initial license because my undergrad is in my subject, not education, and one to get the pay bump for masters + 30). Neither one taught me squat about being a good teacher. The useful part was student teaching--I wish that was a full year, paid at an IA salary.
I have long believed that capping (gen ed) class sizes at 20 would solve 90% of the challenges of teaching. I would have time to reach the needy kids, space to spread them out in the classroom so we could move, the ability to get to know everyone, etc. My workload would be 2/3 what it is now, which would be a reasonable amount of work outside the school day. But that costs money. It's easier to just say teachers are dumb and need more education. |
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Nope. it's silly and it keeps a lot of great and potentially passionate teachers out of teaching.
Some of my child's best teachers have been second career teachers and they might have only BA in accounting or history and then came to teaching after working a few years. I think these are the types of teachers you want. They tend to have more maturity and depth than the young education BA/MA teachers. Personally I really support those programs that encourage people to take a year or two off their other jobs and teach because I think it brings new ideas to the classroom adn also helps our larger society understand how difficult and important teaching kids can be. |