Why so few Criminal Justice and Criminology majors at top law schools?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't think people who major in those fields are typically thinking of law school, but instead of employment in the criminal justice system as something other than as an attorney. Some may in fact choose to later go on to law school, but likely at non T-14 schools which are less expensive, and often through part-time programs while employed in law enforcement.

Few people in federal law enforcement or in the intelligence community choose such majors, they are much or common at the state and local agency level. My colleagues in those environments had degrees, often advanced, in pretty much everything under the sun, including medical doctors, J.D.s, and Ph.D scientists. Still, I don't believe I knew anyone who, to my knowledge, majored in criminal justice or criminology, although some did major in sociology.

Criminal justice is #1 popular major for FBI agent.
https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/what-degree-does-fbi-agent-need

Cool, now do AUSA. It's a vocational degree that doesn't require the kind of research writing or analysis that most people with an eye on law school choose for their majors

funny, given that someone up thread stated that law school is basically a vocational school.

So is med school. So is engineering. So what?

oh ho, but on other threads some posters look down on "vocational" degrees like CS. I'll be sure to always respond with "law degrees are also vocational degrees".

And the ^PP claims "criminal justice" is a vocational degree, as well.

So we agree, these are all "vocational degrees".

There is a difference between a vocational and a pre-professional degree. CS is pre-professional. Criminology is vocational.

I don't understand the distinction you're making. What's the difference? Why is CS "pre-professional" and CJ "vocational"?

White collar vs blue collar. Computer science is a profession. Police work is a vocation

I want to agree with your point. But computer science is not a profession. You go to med school, law school or seminary to practice a profession.

? Why wouldn't a software engineer be considered a "profession"?

If you had had a robust liberal arts education, maybe you would know the answer to this.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't think people who major in those fields are typically thinking of law school, but instead of employment in the criminal justice system as something other than as an attorney. Some may in fact choose to later go on to law school, but likely at non T-14 schools which are less expensive, and often through part-time programs while employed in law enforcement.

Few people in federal law enforcement or in the intelligence community choose such majors, they are much or common at the state and local agency level. My colleagues in those environments had degrees, often advanced, in pretty much everything under the sun, including medical doctors, J.D.s, and Ph.D scientists. Still, I don't believe I knew anyone who, to my knowledge, majored in criminal justice or criminology, although some did major in sociology.

Criminal justice is #1 popular major for FBI agent.
https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/what-degree-does-fbi-agent-need

Cool, now do AUSA. It's a vocational degree that doesn't require the kind of research writing or analysis that most people with an eye on law school choose for their majors

funny, given that someone up thread stated that law school is basically a vocational school.

So is med school. So is engineering. So what?

oh ho, but on other threads some posters look down on "vocational" degrees like CS. I'll be sure to always respond with "law degrees are also vocational degrees".

And the ^PP claims "criminal justice" is a vocational degree, as well.

So we agree, these are all "vocational degrees".

There is a difference between a vocational and a pre-professional degree. CS is pre-professional. Criminology is vocational.

I don't understand the distinction you're making. What's the difference? Why is CS "pre-professional" and CJ "vocational"?

White collar vs blue collar. Computer science is a profession. Police work is a vocation

I want to agree with your point. But computer science is not a profession. You go to med school, law school or seminary to practice a profession.

Time change. Being a developer is as much a profession as being an accountant

Accountant is basically a blue collar job with a better salary (albeit one with a lower ceiling).

How much do you think controllers make? CFOs?

Is money how we define all of this? Because Vidal Sassoon and Paul Mitchell made a lot of money too. Still hair stylists.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:From Harvard Law's Website:

"Harvard Law School considers applications from all undergraduate majors. There are no fixed requirements with respect to the content of pre-legal education. The nature of a candidate’s college work, as well as the quality of academic performance, are reviewed in the selection process. However, in preparing for law school, a broad college education is usually preferable to one that is narrowly specialized. The Admissions Committee looks for a showing of thorough learning in a field of your choice, such as history, economics, government, philosophy, mathematics, science, literature or the classics (and many others), rather than a concentration in courses given primarily as vocational training."

Their site used to say that outright say that they prefer curricula that deals with subjects on a theoretical level, but I don't know if they would still phrase it that way. But their mission is not really to produce lawyers but leaders: judges, legislators, presidents of countries, business leaders (i.e., CEO), public organization presidents, intellectual thought leaders (including via film, writing, etc.) This is why their law school curriculum is so heavily focused on policy and theory. It isn't really surprising that they would look down on majors like criminal justice.

I would assume other top law schools would have the same hang-up.

You think that law school curriculum varies from law school to law school? Lol. It really doesn't.

They vary a lot. There are Harvard Law profs in 1L classes that use no casebooks, have no issue spotters (policy and theory questions on exams only), and essentially assign law review articles for the term. The only other law school where students have as little doctrinal knowledge is Yale.

You are talking about seminars. All of the top schools have them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From Harvard Law's Website:

"Harvard Law School considers applications from all undergraduate majors. There are no fixed requirements with respect to the content of pre-legal education. The nature of a candidate’s college work, as well as the quality of academic performance, are reviewed in the selection process. However, in preparing for law school, a broad college education is usually preferable to one that is narrowly specialized. The Admissions Committee looks for a showing of thorough learning in a field of your choice, such as history, economics, government, philosophy, mathematics, science, literature or the classics (and many others), rather than a concentration in courses given primarily as vocational training."

Their site used to say that outright say that they prefer curricula that deals with subjects on a theoretical level, but I don't know if they would still phrase it that way. But their mission is not really to produce lawyers but leaders: judges, legislators, presidents of countries, business leaders (i.e., CEO), public organization presidents, intellectual thought leaders (including via film, writing, etc.) This is why their law school curriculum is so heavily focused on policy and theory. It isn't really surprising that they would look down on majors like criminal justice.

I would assume other top law schools would have the same hang-up.

You think that law school curriculum varies from law school to law school? Lol. It really doesn't.

They vary a lot. There are Harvard Law profs in 1L classes that use no casebooks, have no issue spotters (policy and theory questions on exams only), and essentially assign law review articles for the term. The only other law school where students have as little doctrinal knowledge is Yale.

You are talking about seminars. All of the top schools have them.

No, I am literally talking about 1L courses like Torts and Contracts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I don't think people who major in those fields are typically thinking of law school, but instead of employment in the criminal justice system as something other than as an attorney. Some may in fact choose to later go on to law school, but likely at non T-14 schools which are less expensive, and often through part-time programs while employed in law enforcement.

Few people in federal law enforcement or in the intelligence community choose such majors, they are much or common at the state and local agency level. My colleagues in those environments had degrees, often advanced, in pretty much everything under the sun, including medical doctors, J.D.s, and Ph.D scientists. Still, I don't believe I knew anyone who, to my knowledge, majored in criminal justice or criminology, although some did major in sociology.

Criminal justice is #1 popular major for FBI agent.
https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/what-degree-does-fbi-agent-need

Cool, now do AUSA. It's a vocational degree that doesn't require the kind of research writing or analysis that most people with an eye on law school choose for their majors

funny, given that someone up thread stated that law school is basically a vocational school.

So is med school. So is engineering. So what?

oh ho, but on other threads some posters look down on "vocational" degrees like CS. I'll be sure to always respond with "law degrees are also vocational degrees".

And the ^PP claims "criminal justice" is a vocational degree, as well.

So we agree, these are all "vocational degrees".

There is a difference between a vocational and a pre-professional degree. CS is pre-professional. Criminology is vocational.

I don't understand the distinction you're making. What's the difference? Why is CS "pre-professional" and CJ "vocational"?

White collar vs blue collar. Computer science is a profession. Police work is a vocation

I want to agree with your point. But computer science is not a profession. You go to med school, law school or seminary to practice a profession.

? Why wouldn't a software engineer be considered a "profession"?

If you had had a robust liberal arts education, maybe you would know the answer to this.

So, you don't know the answer, either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think people who major in those fields are typically thinking of law school, but instead of employment in the criminal justice system as something other than as an attorney. Some may in fact choose to later go on to law school, but likely at non T-14 schools which are less expensive, and often through part-time programs while employed in law enforcement.

Few people in federal law enforcement or in the intelligence community choose such majors, they are much or common at the state and local agency level. My colleagues in those environments had degrees, often advanced, in pretty much everything under the sun, including medical doctors, J.D.s, and Ph.D scientists. Still, I don't believe I knew anyone who, to my knowledge, majored in criminal justice or criminology, although some did major in sociology.

Criminal justice is #1 popular major for FBI agent.
https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/what-degree-does-fbi-agent-need

Cool, now do AUSA. It's a vocational degree that doesn't require the kind of research writing or analysis that most people with an eye on law school choose for their majors

funny, given that someone up thread stated that law school is basically a vocational school.

So is med school. So is engineering. So what?

oh ho, but on other threads some posters look down on "vocational" degrees like CS. I'll be sure to always respond with "law degrees are also vocational degrees".

And the ^PP claims "criminal justice" is a vocational degree, as well.

So we agree, these are all "vocational degrees".

There is a difference between a vocational and a pre-professional degree. CS is pre-professional. Criminology is vocational.

I don't understand the distinction you're making. What's the difference? Why is CS "pre-professional" and CJ "vocational"?

White collar vs blue collar. Computer science is a profession. Police work is a vocation

I want to agree with your point. But computer science is not a profession. You go to med school, law school or seminary to practice a profession.

? Why wouldn't a software engineer be considered a "profession"?

If you had had a robust liberal arts education, maybe you would know the answer to this.

So, you don't know the answer, either.

I do.

[Anonymous]

Much better major than most humanities majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:because it's not a serious major. It's a vocational focused major, not the liberal arts.

If it’s vocational based it’s a serious major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've never met a bright student who majors in Criminology. You need to be bright to get into a top law school.

Have you met a lot of criminology majors? And you don’t have to be bright to get into a middling or low tier law school.

A few do go to law school but most are more interested in careers like FBI or CIA, crime lab analyst, corporate investigator, secret service, cop, plus more

It’s not a major with courses that basic people think make you a bright student. The courses are geared towards the jobs listed above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You need a brain to go to law school.
Enough said.

Not enough said at all. We all need brains, nothing special about going to law school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think people who major in those fields are typically thinking of law school, but instead of employment in the criminal justice system as something other than as an attorney. Some may in fact choose to later go on to law school, but likely at non T-14 schools which are less expensive, and often through part-time programs while employed in law enforcement.

Few people in federal law enforcement or in the intelligence community choose such majors, they are much or common at the state and local agency level. My colleagues in those environments had degrees, often advanced, in pretty much everything under the sun, including medical doctors, J.D.s, and Ph.D scientists. Still, I don't believe I knew anyone who, to my knowledge, majored in criminal justice or criminology, although some did major in sociology.

Criminal justice is #1 popular major for FBI agent.
https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/what-degree-does-fbi-agent-need

Cool, now do AUSA. It's a vocational degree that doesn't require the kind of research writing or analysis that most people with an eye on law school choose for their majors

funny, given that someone up thread stated that law school is basically a vocational school.

So is med school. So is engineering. So what?

oh ho, but on other threads some posters look down on "vocational" degrees like CS. I'll be sure to always respond with "law degrees are also vocational degrees".

And the ^PP claims "criminal justice" is a vocational degree, as well.

So we agree, these are all "vocational degrees".

There is a difference between a vocational and a pre-professional degree. CS is pre-professional. Criminology is vocational.

I don't understand the distinction you're making. What's the difference? Why is CS "pre-professional" and CJ "vocational"?

White collar vs blue collar. Computer science is a profession. Police work is a vocation

I don’t think either job has to be labeled blue or,white or vocation blah blah. Computer science workers dress casual, usually work at a desk, set hours, don’t deal with people that much. Law enforcement wears a uniform or suit, has odd hours, needs good interpersonal skills.

They are both good careers, why act like one is better than the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like a great major if you are interested in becoming FBI, CIA, or law officer moving up to chief, director, etc., and also bunch of government agencies and moving up. If you go to top school and major in criminal justice, you will have much better chance in those areas.

Sounds better than most humanities majors.

Not for fbi or cia. CIA wants top grades from top schools in traditional majors. FBI wants lawyers or accountants or people from military.

The criminology major is not serious. And yes political science or history are better because the analytical skills that are developed.

They were known to recruit out of the Ivies. W&M and Georgetown too.

Of course they recruit at the Ivies. They also recruit at all kinds of colleges. And FBI does not just want accountants and lawyers. Those aren’t the ones that go out in the field.

[Anonymous]

First gen major

[Anonymous]

I developed an interest in juvenile justice policy while I was getting my BS in this field and debated between a masters and law school (I opted for a JD/MS program).

I took precisely one class on theories of policing. If that makes this a "cop degree" so be it.

[Anonymous]

https://www.businessinsider.com/meet-attorney-347k-student-loan-debt-no-job-biden-forgiveness-2022-7

"Meet a first-generation attorney with $347,000 in student debt who can't land a job and says 'there are a substantial number of people like me that are being forgotten'"

Unlike medical schools, there are many law schools with 50% 60% 70% acceptance rate.
Good luck with the degree.