Why so few Criminal Justice and Criminology majors at top law schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like a great major if you are interested in becoming FBI, CIA, or law officer moving up to chief, director, etc., and also bunch of government agencies and moving up. If you go to top school and major in criminal justice, you will have much better chance in those areas.

Sounds better than most humanities majors.

Not for fbi or cia. CIA wants top grades from top schools in traditional majors. FBI wants lawyers or accountants or people from military.

The criminology major is not serious. And yes political science or history are better because the analytical skills that are developed.

They were known to recruit out of the Ivies. W&M and Georgetown too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was an "administration of justice" major at a Big 10 school and graduated in the top 0.5% of my class (university-wide), so not a complete idiot. I distinctly remember writing multiple research papers in all of my 400-level classes. I went on to law school and was well-prepared for it. The major certainly didn't prepare me to be a cop!

Yeah it did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are they as rare as hen's teeth at Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Chicago, Stanford etc.?

There are no majors at law school. People interested in criminal law from top law schools become DAs or do clerkships or eventually become US Attorneys. Also, people have loans to pay off and need big law money.

I think you mean AUSAs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From Harvard Law's Website:

"Harvard Law School considers applications from all undergraduate majors. There are no fixed requirements with respect to the content of pre-legal education. The nature of a candidate’s college work, as well as the quality of academic performance, are reviewed in the selection process. However, in preparing for law school, a broad college education is usually preferable to one that is narrowly specialized. The Admissions Committee looks for a showing of thorough learning in a field of your choice, such as history, economics, government, philosophy, mathematics, science, literature or the classics (and many others), rather than a concentration in courses given primarily as vocational training."

Their site used to say that outright say that they prefer curricula that deals with subjects on a theoretical level, but I don't know if they would still phrase it that way. But their mission is not really to produce lawyers but leaders: judges, legislators, presidents of countries, business leaders (i.e., CEO), public organization presidents, intellectual thought leaders (including via film, writing, etc.) This is why their law school curriculum is so heavily focused on policy and theory. It isn't really surprising that they would look down on majors like criminal justice.

I would assume other top law schools would have the same hang-up.

You think that law school curriculum varies from law school to law school? Lol. It really doesn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need a brain to go to law school.
Enough said.

Not as much of one as you might imagine.

—a lawyer

Agreed. Most lawyers I know just aren't that smart. They're average people who are good at taking that test and at knowing how to study for certain kinds of tests.

Seems like an intelligent skills. Tests do measure important objectives of smarts.

What?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't think people who major in those fields are typically thinking of law school, but instead of employment in the criminal justice system as something other than as an attorney. Some may in fact choose to later go on to law school, but likely at non T-14 schools which are less expensive, and often through part-time programs while employed in law enforcement.

Few people in federal law enforcement or in the intelligence community choose such majors, they are much or common at the state and local agency level. My colleagues in those environments had degrees, often advanced, in pretty much everything under the sun, including medical doctors, J.D.s, and Ph.D scientists. Still, I don't believe I knew anyone who, to my knowledge, majored in criminal justice or criminology, although some did major in sociology.

Criminal justice is #1 popular major for FBI agent.
https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/what-degree-does-fbi-agent-need

Cool, now do AUSA. It's a vocational degree that doesn't require the kind of research writing or analysis that most people with an eye on law school choose for their majors

funny, given that someone up thread stated that law school is basically a vocational school.

So is med school. So is engineering. So what?

oh ho, but on other threads some posters look down on "vocational" degrees like CS. I'll be sure to always respond with "law degrees are also vocational degrees".

And the ^PP claims "criminal justice" is a vocational degree, as well.

So we agree, these are all "vocational degrees".

There is a difference between a vocational and a pre-professional degree. CS is pre-professional. Criminology is vocational.

I don't understand the distinction you're making. What's the difference? Why is CS "pre-professional" and CJ "vocational"?

White collar vs blue collar. Computer science is a profession. Police work is a vocation

I want to agree with your point. But computer science is not a profession. You go to med school, law school or seminary to practice a profession.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From Harvard Law's Website:

"Harvard Law School considers applications from all undergraduate majors. There are no fixed requirements with respect to the content of pre-legal education. The nature of a candidate’s college work, as well as the quality of academic performance, are reviewed in the selection process. However, in preparing for law school, a broad college education is usually preferable to one that is narrowly specialized. The Admissions Committee looks for a showing of thorough learning in a field of your choice, such as history, economics, government, philosophy, mathematics, science, literature or the classics (and many others), rather than a concentration in courses given primarily as vocational training."

Their site used to say that outright say that they prefer curricula that deals with subjects on a theoretical level, but I don't know if they would still phrase it that way. But their mission is not really to produce lawyers but leaders: judges, legislators, presidents of countries, business leaders (i.e., CEO), public organization presidents, intellectual thought leaders (including via film, writing, etc.) This is why their law school curriculum is so heavily focused on policy and theory. It isn't really surprising that they would look down on majors like criminal justice.

I would assume other top law schools would have the same hang-up.

You think that law school curriculum varies from law school to law school? Lol. It really doesn't.

1L is the same everywhere, but upper level classes vary a lot. I went to GW and our admin law offerings, especially if you consider government contracts to be admin, were more robust than other schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think people who major in those fields are typically thinking of law school, but instead of employment in the criminal justice system as something other than as an attorney. Some may in fact choose to later go on to law school, but likely at non T-14 schools which are less expensive, and often through part-time programs while employed in law enforcement.

Few people in federal law enforcement or in the intelligence community choose such majors, they are much or common at the state and local agency level. My colleagues in those environments had degrees, often advanced, in pretty much everything under the sun, including medical doctors, J.D.s, and Ph.D scientists. Still, I don't believe I knew anyone who, to my knowledge, majored in criminal justice or criminology, although some did major in sociology.

Criminal justice is #1 popular major for FBI agent.
https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/what-degree-does-fbi-agent-need

Cool, now do AUSA. It's a vocational degree that doesn't require the kind of research writing or analysis that most people with an eye on law school choose for their majors

funny, given that someone up thread stated that law school is basically a vocational school.

So is med school. So is engineering. So what?

oh ho, but on other threads some posters look down on "vocational" degrees like CS. I'll be sure to always respond with "law degrees are also vocational degrees".

And the ^PP claims "criminal justice" is a vocational degree, as well.

So we agree, these are all "vocational degrees".

There is a difference between a vocational and a pre-professional degree. CS is pre-professional. Criminology is vocational.

I don't understand the distinction you're making. What's the difference? Why is CS "pre-professional" and CJ "vocational"?

White collar vs blue collar. Computer science is a profession. Police work is a vocation

I want to agree with your point. But computer science is not a profession. You go to med school, law school or seminary to practice a profession.

Time change. Being a developer is as much a profession as being an accountant

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:because it's not a serious major. It's a vocational focused major, not the liberal arts.

x100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think people who major in those fields are typically thinking of law school, but instead of employment in the criminal justice system as something other than as an attorney. Some may in fact choose to later go on to law school, but likely at non T-14 schools which are less expensive, and often through part-time programs while employed in law enforcement.

Few people in federal law enforcement or in the intelligence community choose such majors, they are much or common at the state and local agency level. My colleagues in those environments had degrees, often advanced, in pretty much everything under the sun, including medical doctors, J.D.s, and Ph.D scientists. Still, I don't believe I knew anyone who, to my knowledge, majored in criminal justice or criminology, although some did major in sociology.

Criminal justice is #1 popular major for FBI agent.
https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/what-degree-does-fbi-agent-need

Cool, now do AUSA. It's a vocational degree that doesn't require the kind of research writing or analysis that most people with an eye on law school choose for their majors

funny, given that someone up thread stated that law school is basically a vocational school.

So is med school. So is engineering. So what?

oh ho, but on other threads some posters look down on "vocational" degrees like CS. I'll be sure to always respond with "law degrees are also vocational degrees".

And the ^PP claims "criminal justice" is a vocational degree, as well.

So we agree, these are all "vocational degrees".

There is a difference between a vocational and a pre-professional degree. CS is pre-professional. Criminology is vocational.

I don't understand the distinction you're making. What's the difference? Why is CS "pre-professional" and CJ "vocational"?

White collar vs blue collar. Computer science is a profession. Police work is a vocation

I want to agree with your point. But computer science is not a profession. You go to med school, law school or seminary to practice a profession.

? Why wouldn't a software engineer be considered a "profession"?

[Anonymous]

Because the majority of kids interested in criminal justice want to work in law enforcement or be a cop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think people who major in those fields are typically thinking of law school, but instead of employment in the criminal justice system as something other than as an attorney. Some may in fact choose to later go on to law school, but likely at non T-14 schools which are less expensive, and often through part-time programs while employed in law enforcement.

Few people in federal law enforcement or in the intelligence community choose such majors, they are much or common at the state and local agency level. My colleagues in those environments had degrees, often advanced, in pretty much everything under the sun, including medical doctors, J.D.s, and Ph.D scientists. Still, I don't believe I knew anyone who, to my knowledge, majored in criminal justice or criminology, although some did major in sociology.

Criminal justice is #1 popular major for FBI agent.
https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/what-degree-does-fbi-agent-need

Cool, now do AUSA. It's a vocational degree that doesn't require the kind of research writing or analysis that most people with an eye on law school choose for their majors

funny, given that someone up thread stated that law school is basically a vocational school.

So is med school. So is engineering. So what?

oh ho, but on other threads some posters look down on "vocational" degrees like CS. I'll be sure to always respond with "law degrees are also vocational degrees".

And the ^PP claims "criminal justice" is a vocational degree, as well.

So we agree, these are all "vocational degrees".

There is a difference between a vocational and a pre-professional degree. CS is pre-professional. Criminology is vocational.

I don't understand the distinction you're making. What's the difference? Why is CS "pre-professional" and CJ "vocational"?

White collar vs blue collar. Computer science is a profession. Police work is a vocation

I want to agree with your point. But computer science is not a profession. You go to med school, law school or seminary to practice a profession.

Time change. Being a developer is as much a profession as being an accountant

Accountant is basically a blue collar job with a better salary (albeit one with a lower ceiling).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From Harvard Law's Website:

"Harvard Law School considers applications from all undergraduate majors. There are no fixed requirements with respect to the content of pre-legal education. The nature of a candidate’s college work, as well as the quality of academic performance, are reviewed in the selection process. However, in preparing for law school, a broad college education is usually preferable to one that is narrowly specialized. The Admissions Committee looks for a showing of thorough learning in a field of your choice, such as history, economics, government, philosophy, mathematics, science, literature or the classics (and many others), rather than a concentration in courses given primarily as vocational training."

Their site used to say that outright say that they prefer curricula that deals with subjects on a theoretical level, but I don't know if they would still phrase it that way. But their mission is not really to produce lawyers but leaders: judges, legislators, presidents of countries, business leaders (i.e., CEO), public organization presidents, intellectual thought leaders (including via film, writing, etc.) This is why their law school curriculum is so heavily focused on policy and theory. It isn't really surprising that they would look down on majors like criminal justice.

I would assume other top law schools would have the same hang-up.

You think that law school curriculum varies from law school to law school? Lol. It really doesn't.

They vary a lot. There are Harvard Law profs in 1L classes that use no casebooks, have no issue spotters (policy and theory questions on exams only), and essentially assign law review articles for the term. The only other law school where students have as little doctrinal knowledge is Yale.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think people who major in those fields are typically thinking of law school, but instead of employment in the criminal justice system as something other than as an attorney. Some may in fact choose to later go on to law school, but likely at non T-14 schools which are less expensive, and often through part-time programs while employed in law enforcement.

Few people in federal law enforcement or in the intelligence community choose such majors, they are much or common at the state and local agency level. My colleagues in those environments had degrees, often advanced, in pretty much everything under the sun, including medical doctors, J.D.s, and Ph.D scientists. Still, I don't believe I knew anyone who, to my knowledge, majored in criminal justice or criminology, although some did major in sociology.

Criminal justice is #1 popular major for FBI agent.
https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/what-degree-does-fbi-agent-need

Cool, now do AUSA. It's a vocational degree that doesn't require the kind of research writing or analysis that most people with an eye on law school choose for their majors

funny, given that someone up thread stated that law school is basically a vocational school.

So is med school. So is engineering. So what?

oh ho, but on other threads some posters look down on "vocational" degrees like CS. I'll be sure to always respond with "law degrees are also vocational degrees".

And the ^PP claims "criminal justice" is a vocational degree, as well.

So we agree, these are all "vocational degrees".

There is a difference between a vocational and a pre-professional degree. CS is pre-professional. Criminology is vocational.

I don't understand the distinction you're making. What's the difference? Why is CS "pre-professional" and CJ "vocational"?

White collar vs blue collar. Computer science is a profession. Police work is a vocation

I want to agree with your point. But computer science is not a profession. You go to med school, law school or seminary to practice a profession.

Time change. Being a developer is as much a profession as being an accountant

Accountant is basically a blue collar job with a better salary (albeit one with a lower ceiling).

Bingo. Accounting is to investment banking as nursing is to being a doctor, and as cop is to attorney

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think people who major in those fields are typically thinking of law school, but instead of employment in the criminal justice system as something other than as an attorney. Some may in fact choose to later go on to law school, but likely at non T-14 schools which are less expensive, and often through part-time programs while employed in law enforcement.

Few people in federal law enforcement or in the intelligence community choose such majors, they are much or common at the state and local agency level. My colleagues in those environments had degrees, often advanced, in pretty much everything under the sun, including medical doctors, J.D.s, and Ph.D scientists. Still, I don't believe I knew anyone who, to my knowledge, majored in criminal justice or criminology, although some did major in sociology.

Criminal justice is #1 popular major for FBI agent.
https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/what-degree-does-fbi-agent-need

Cool, now do AUSA. It's a vocational degree that doesn't require the kind of research writing or analysis that most people with an eye on law school choose for their majors

funny, given that someone up thread stated that law school is basically a vocational school.

So is med school. So is engineering. So what?

oh ho, but on other threads some posters look down on "vocational" degrees like CS. I'll be sure to always respond with "law degrees are also vocational degrees".

And the ^PP claims "criminal justice" is a vocational degree, as well.

So we agree, these are all "vocational degrees".

There is a difference between a vocational and a pre-professional degree. CS is pre-professional. Criminology is vocational.

I don't understand the distinction you're making. What's the difference? Why is CS "pre-professional" and CJ "vocational"?

White collar vs blue collar. Computer science is a profession. Police work is a vocation

I want to agree with your point. But computer science is not a profession. You go to med school, law school or seminary to practice a profession.

Time change. Being a developer is as much a profession as being an accountant

Accountant is basically a blue collar job with a better salary (albeit one with a lower ceiling).

How much do you think controllers make? CFOs?