Need help getting Gen Z hires to dress better at work

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd circulate a list of do's and don'ts. I don't have the energy for this anymore.
1. No wrinkled clothing.
2. No clothing/shoes you would wear to the beach.
3. No clothing/shoes you would wear to the gym.
4. No clothing/shoes you would wear on a weekend in or to a club.
4. When going to client meetings, dress for them, not for you. That means:
--clean, pressed clothing that fits your body
-- nothing too tight or too loose
- hair that is groomed and conservative

And I'd put a deck together with a couple of slides of appropriate and not appropriate.

I'm not sugar-coating shit anymore.

Now we're talking. Thank you. I'm scared to do slides, but I like the lines about nothing you would wear to ___. --OP

If this company really is in a field of design, chances are Gen Z, Millennials and even GenX would wear fashion garments that are inspired by the beach, gym and clubbing. The above rules are dated and can't be enforced on design professionals. The only rules that make sense are to make sure that hair clothes are clean and try to look presentable. Who is to say "clothing that fits your body" when baggy clothes are in? It's not like these kids work for the White House.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be prepared for pushback. I have addressed a few of our contract employees with "please no jeans or denim at the office." The response was "these are the only pants I have besides shorts."

You have to be prepared to enforce the dress code or say then you can't work here.

And I hope your reply back to them was something like "I remember what it was like when I first started working. I built my professional wardrobe slowly, but started with a pair of black pants, a plain solid colored top, and back loafers. Those are pieces you can buy at any price point"

When I was 25 years old, my 45 year old male boss asked me to counsel another young woman on her attire because it was not professional (she was dressing for happy hour, not for client meetings). This has been happening forever and you just need to suck it up and be clear..

The above is very good advice. When I was starting out and needed to build a professional wardrobe, I was advised to go to consignment stores and it was great advice. That's easier than ever now with online thrift options and buy nothing groups. There's also professional fast fashion. You can get a passable blazer at H&M for $30.

Gen Z seems very attuned to language and online presence, so perhaps explain to them that just as you can't use emojis and text abbreviations at work or on your resume, you can't wear your weekend clothes to the office. You present yourself differently on LinkedIn versus on Instagram, and dressing is like that too.

[Anonymous]

send out a dress code. obviously, they don't know what they are supposed to be wearing. if this fails, get rid of the slobs.

there is business casual, casual and ... lounging clothes. the types of items you mention are not suitable for work ...anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Dressing code needs to be in writing

In specifics

I'd spell out no crocs, no plastic shoes, no yoga pants, no sweat pants

Go over dress code in all interviews

Talk to people directly if what they are wearing is not professional

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was unprepared for the aesthetic of this year's crop of new hires. They dress horribly - sweatpants, messy hair (looks like they just got out of bed), crocs or other plastic shoes, rumpled t-shirts. For some tasks this is OK, but a lot of the time we are meeting with clients and doing site visits, and we are in the design industry, meaning we generally consider our look part of our branding. Our brand is high end but creative, so there is a lot of leeway, but I just don't know how to tell the younger adults how to dress without offending anyone or being seen to police bodies or hairstyles. But I need them not just to adhere to a list of "don't wear this," but to actively look good. Like, hair combed and styled, preferably some makeup for women, and so on. Does anyone else have this issue and how did you handle it?

Right....and Im sure you would consider a man wearing makeup and nail polish to be suitably dressed and pleasingly aesthetically to your clients?

I dont wear makeup because its dumb, expensive, and lots of chemicals for no real purpose. Sunscreen chemicals get balanced with sun exposure and risk of cancer. There is no balance benefit to makeup besides societal expectations. Not to mention that most people have no idea how much makeup it takes to make a "no makeup" look.

I'm fine if they don't want to wear makeup, but I'm not fine with a messy, frizzy ponytail topping it off. I don't care what the specific look is, but I need them to look good. Our clients are dressed up, our brand is high end and all about aesthetics. I can't even bring them into the sites with me sometimes because they look so bad that I'm sure they would cost us a sale.

Interesting? How many men under you have enough hair for a ponytail?

Two, and ironically, they are the exceptions. One wears dreds, and the other wears a man bun. Neither one ever wears a messy ponytail with bits hanging out and sticking out all over like they just got out of bed or were exercising or something. Also, both are a bit older than the newer kids, which is probably the difference. Your response is exactly why this is so difficult - it's impossible to find a way to ask people to look neat and well-groomed, in whatever style they prefer, without seeming sexist or otherwise out of touch.

So I want to be clear that you have 2 Male employees with dreds and a man bun and they are put together enough for you but somehow all of the women with a bun/ponytail do NOT?

Do the males also dress appropriately in your opinion?

I am beginning to think that you may have a lot higher threshold for appropriate dress for women than you do men. Honestly, I am not being snarky. Its internalized and if you are a woman, then you have likely had to keep these standards and now think other women should too.

There tends to be some underlying sexual overtones in the business world where businesses with prettier females are rated higher because of the world we all grew up in, regardless of the scope of work and/or the product. This happens in places like restaurants all the freaking time. Females dress up and thats what they are judged by and if pretty enough they can give mediocre service and still get great tips. Guys can be somewhat unkempt or not good looking and if they have a personality then its fine. Girls cannot do the same, by and large.

Just tread carefully because Gen Z doesnt care about those rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was unprepared for the aesthetic of this year's crop of new hires. They dress horribly - sweatpants, messy hair (looks like they just got out of bed), crocs or other plastic shoes, rumpled t-shirts. For some tasks this is OK, but a lot of the time we are meeting with clients and doing site visits, and we are in the design industry, meaning we generally consider our look part of our branding. Our brand is high end but creative, so there is a lot of leeway, but I just don't know how to tell the younger adults how to dress without offending anyone or being seen to police bodies or hairstyles. But I need them not just to adhere to a list of "don't wear this," but to actively look good. Like, hair combed and styled, preferably some makeup for women, and so on. Does anyone else have this issue and how did you handle it?

Right....and Im sure you would consider a man wearing makeup and nail polish to be suitably dressed and pleasingly aesthetically to your clients?

I dont wear makeup because its dumb, expensive, and lots of chemicals for no real purpose. Sunscreen chemicals get balanced with sun exposure and risk of cancer. There is no balance benefit to makeup besides societal expectations. Not to mention that most people have no idea how much makeup it takes to make a "no makeup" look.

I'm fine if they don't want to wear makeup, but I'm not fine with a messy, frizzy ponytail topping it off. I don't care what the specific look is, but I need them to look good. Our clients are dressed up, our brand is high end and all about aesthetics. I can't even bring them into the sites with me sometimes because they look so bad that I'm sure they would cost us a sale.

Interesting? How many men under you have enough hair for a ponytail?

Two, and ironically, they are the exceptions. One wears dreds, and the other wears a man bun. Neither one ever wears a messy ponytail with bits hanging out and sticking out all over like they just got out of bed or were exercising or something. Also, both are a bit older than the newer kids, which is probably the difference. Your response is exactly why this is so difficult - it's impossible to find a way to ask people to look neat and well-groomed, in whatever style they prefer, without seeming sexist or otherwise out of touch.

So I want to be clear that you have 2 Male employees with dreds and a man bun and they are put together enough for you but somehow all of the women with a bun/ponytail do NOT?

Do the males also dress appropriately in your opinion?

I am beginning to think that you may have a lot higher threshold for appropriate dress for women than you do men. Honestly, I am not being snarky. Its internalized and if you are a woman, then you have likely had to keep these standards and now think other women should too.

There tends to be some underlying sexual overtones in the business world where businesses with prettier females are rated higher because of the world we all grew up in, regardless of the scope of work and/or the product. This happens in places like restaurants all the freaking time. Females dress up and thats what they are judged by and if pretty enough they can give mediocre service and still get great tips. Guys can be somewhat unkempt or not good looking and if they have a personality then its fine. Girls cannot do the same, by and large.

Just tread carefully because Gen Z doesnt care about those rules.

DP. I think you must be Gen Z and are just trying to be combative and/or worked in a restaurant and got bad tips. There is a huge difference between well-done dreds or a man bun and anyone who throws their hair back in a messy ponytail. Well-done dreds and man buns absolutely can be perfect for a creative office environment, provided they are combined with appropriate work casual clothes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was unprepared for the aesthetic of this year's crop of new hires. They dress horribly - sweatpants, messy hair (looks like they just got out of bed), crocs or other plastic shoes, rumpled t-shirts. For some tasks this is OK, but a lot of the time we are meeting with clients and doing site visits, and we are in the design industry, meaning we generally consider our look part of our branding. Our brand is high end but creative, so there is a lot of leeway, but I just don't know how to tell the younger adults how to dress without offending anyone or being seen to police bodies or hairstyles. But I need them not just to adhere to a list of "don't wear this," but to actively look good. Like, hair combed and styled, preferably some makeup for women, and so on. Does anyone else have this issue and how did you handle it?

Right....and Im sure you would consider a man wearing makeup and nail polish to be suitably dressed and pleasingly aesthetically to your clients?

I dont wear makeup because its dumb, expensive, and lots of chemicals for no real purpose. Sunscreen chemicals get balanced with sun exposure and risk of cancer. There is no balance benefit to makeup besides societal expectations. Not to mention that most people have no idea how much makeup it takes to make a "no makeup" look.

I'm fine if they don't want to wear makeup, but I'm not fine with a messy, frizzy ponytail topping it off. I don't care what the specific look is, but I need them to look good. Our clients are dressed up, our brand is high end and all about aesthetics. I can't even bring them into the sites with me sometimes because they look so bad that I'm sure they would cost us a sale.

You know some people can't help if they have frizzy hair? You sound seriously superficial. You are going to get your workplace sued for discrimination if you keep this sh*t up.

Oh please. We all know what OP is talking about and it's not what you are implying.

NP, OP needs this feedback. As someone who’s battled frizzy, curly hair for decades, it took finally trying over $75 worth of various products in one month to find an affordable combination that works *most* days. It’s just so, so hard to manage frizzy hair, especially if you swim. If OP says frizzy, people are going to get off-track. Instead, OP should say, uncombed. I comb my hair after my morning shower, but on humid days, it will frizz. If I feel it into submission, it looks wet all day. There is no winning.

OP here, and you are precisely correct. I also have frizzy hair, and I also swim. But people are really stuck on that, when all I meant was uncombed and messy. Or, in the case of us curly haired girls, just completely undone, probably for more than a day.

You seem to have communication issues on an anon website, how are you communicating to your team? You've continually written things and then walked them back with "clarifications". This could just be an issue with your management and communication issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was unprepared for the aesthetic of this year's crop of new hires. They dress horribly - sweatpants, messy hair (looks like they just got out of bed), crocs or other plastic shoes, rumpled t-shirts. For some tasks this is OK, but a lot of the time we are meeting with clients and doing site visits, and we are in the design industry, meaning we generally consider our look part of our branding. Our brand is high end but creative, so there is a lot of leeway, but I just don't know how to tell the younger adults how to dress without offending anyone or being seen to police bodies or hairstyles. But I need them not just to adhere to a list of "don't wear this," but to actively look good. Like, hair combed and styled, preferably some makeup for women, and so on. Does anyone else have this issue and how did you handle it?

Right....and Im sure you would consider a man wearing makeup and nail polish to be suitably dressed and pleasingly aesthetically to your clients?

I dont wear makeup because its dumb, expensive, and lots of chemicals for no real purpose. Sunscreen chemicals get balanced with sun exposure and risk of cancer. There is no balance benefit to makeup besides societal expectations. Not to mention that most people have no idea how much makeup it takes to make a "no makeup" look.

I'm fine if they don't want to wear makeup, but I'm not fine with a messy, frizzy ponytail topping it off. I don't care what the specific look is, but I need them to look good. Our clients are dressed up, our brand is high end and all about aesthetics. I can't even bring them into the sites with me sometimes because they look so bad that I'm sure they would cost us a sale.

You know some people can't help if they have frizzy hair? You sound seriously superficial. You are going to get your workplace sued for discrimination if you keep this sh*t up.

Even the most frizzy hair can look styled and put together.

OP said women must wear makeup, and can't have frizzy hair - a pony is considered a style. S/he sounds like an awful manager. Misogyny at it's finest!

Actually, he/she didn't say must. said it's preferable. But an unkempt pony is not a style. It looks lazy and like you just rolled out of bed. Are we going to consider eye boogers a style too going forward? How about bad breath?

You cannot dictate women wearing makeup as a job requirement. You cannot "prefer" women wear makeup as a job requirement. You cannot dictate that women don't have frizzy hair. OP is a misogynistic POS.

Of course, you can!!! For example, news anchors, actors, models, etc.

OP here. Yes, you are correct, we can. Some of our work involves staging and photography, and we often photograph our employees for social media, and I always hope on those occasions they will at least not look absolutely awful. Makeup is not really required for everyone to look presentable in a photo, but it certainly would help. Every once in a while, if it's going to be photographed widely, the company will actually spring for professional makeup for everyone, and sometimes even wardrobe. We can't afford to do that very often, though.

I think this is something you need to address in the interview to let people know that you need them to be instagram ready all the time for social media posts. Plenty of gen z young adults are into makeup and fashion. They need to look the part when they are interviewing, and you need to look at their social media so you get a sense of what they look like on a day to day basis. If influencing is important to this job, look for people who are social media savvy (and attractive) that you can then train for other aspects of the job. If you want people to look instagram ready, everyone in your office needs to set this tone, all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was unprepared for the aesthetic of this year's crop of new hires. They dress horribly - sweatpants, messy hair (looks like they just got out of bed), crocs or other plastic shoes, rumpled t-shirts. For some tasks this is OK, but a lot of the time we are meeting with clients and doing site visits, and we are in the design industry, meaning we generally consider our look part of our branding. Our brand is high end but creative, so there is a lot of leeway, but I just don't know how to tell the younger adults how to dress without offending anyone or being seen to police bodies or hairstyles. But I need them not just to adhere to a list of "don't wear this," but to actively look good. Like, hair combed and styled, preferably some makeup for women, and so on. Does anyone else have this issue and how did you handle it?

Right....and Im sure you would consider a man wearing makeup and nail polish to be suitably dressed and pleasingly aesthetically to your clients?

I dont wear makeup because its dumb, expensive, and lots of chemicals for no real purpose. Sunscreen chemicals get balanced with sun exposure and risk of cancer. There is no balance benefit to makeup besides societal expectations. Not to mention that most people have no idea how much makeup it takes to make a "no makeup" look.

I'm fine if they don't want to wear makeup, but I'm not fine with a messy, frizzy ponytail topping it off. I don't care what the specific look is, but I need them to look good. Our clients are dressed up, our brand is high end and all about aesthetics. I can't even bring them into the sites with me sometimes because they look so bad that I'm sure they would cost us a sale.

Interesting? How many men under you have enough hair for a ponytail?

Two, and ironically, they are the exceptions. One wears dreds, and the other wears a man bun. Neither one ever wears a messy ponytail with bits hanging out and sticking out all over like they just got out of bed or were exercising or something. Also, both are a bit older than the newer kids, which is probably the difference. Your response is exactly why this is so difficult - it's impossible to find a way to ask people to look neat and well-groomed, in whatever style they prefer, without seeming sexist or otherwise out of touch.

So I want to be clear that you have 2 Male employees with dreds and a man bun and they are put together enough for you but somehow all of the women with a bun/ponytail do NOT?

Do the males also dress appropriately in your opinion?

I am beginning to think that you may have a lot higher threshold for appropriate dress for women than you do men. Honestly, I am not being snarky. Its internalized and if you are a woman, then you have likely had to keep these standards and now think other women should too.

There tends to be some underlying sexual overtones in the business world where businesses with prettier females are rated higher because of the world we all grew up in, regardless of the scope of work and/or the product. This happens in places like restaurants all the freaking time. Females dress up and thats what they are judged by and if pretty enough they can give mediocre service and still get great tips. Guys can be somewhat unkempt or not good looking and if they have a personality then its fine. Girls cannot do the same, by and large.

Just tread carefully because Gen Z doesnt care about those rules.

DP. I think you must be Gen Z and are just trying to be combative and/or worked in a restaurant and got bad tips. There is a huge difference between well-done dreds or a man bun and anyone who throws their hair back in a messy ponytail. Well-done dreds and man buns absolutely can be perfect for a creative office environment, provided they are combined with appropriate work casual clothes.

No I am almost 40 years old but there is a lot of female-focused corrections in her post. I 100% agree with you on dreds and man bun and most men look amazing with both. But her comments about dress that started it mentioned makeup and messy ponytails and then she made sure to mention that even the women in the firms they visit have suits on. Most men dont wear yoga pants, which she mentioned when she suggested slacks nor do they wear athletic tights but I could be wrong.

Lastly, OP has refused to answer how they were dressed when they interviewed nor the suggestions that this should be done with HR. I could have missed her responses to those very frequent suggestions on this topic.

Also, I'm the combative one but you aren't for mentioning that I must have received "bad tips" because I put into written word that women are expected to be prettier in almost all occupations especially in service roles?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was unprepared for the aesthetic of this year's crop of new hires. They dress horribly - sweatpants, messy hair (looks like they just got out of bed), crocs or other plastic shoes, rumpled t-shirts. For some tasks this is OK, but a lot of the time we are meeting with clients and doing site visits, and we are in the design industry, meaning we generally consider our look part of our branding. Our brand is high end but creative, so there is a lot of leeway, but I just don't know how to tell the younger adults how to dress without offending anyone or being seen to police bodies or hairstyles. But I need them not just to adhere to a list of "don't wear this," but to actively look good. Like, hair combed and styled, preferably some makeup for women, and so on. Does anyone else have this issue and how did you handle it?

Right....and Im sure you would consider a man wearing makeup and nail polish to be suitably dressed and pleasingly aesthetically to your clients?

I dont wear makeup because its dumb, expensive, and lots of chemicals for no real purpose. Sunscreen chemicals get balanced with sun exposure and risk of cancer. There is no balance benefit to makeup besides societal expectations. Not to mention that most people have no idea how much makeup it takes to make a "no makeup" look.

I'm fine if they don't want to wear makeup, but I'm not fine with a messy, frizzy ponytail topping it off. I don't care what the specific look is, but I need them to look good. Our clients are dressed up, our brand is high end and all about aesthetics. I can't even bring them into the sites with me sometimes because they look so bad that I'm sure they would cost us a sale.

You know some people can't help if they have frizzy hair? You sound seriously superficial. You are going to get your workplace sued for discrimination if you keep this sh*t up.

Oh please. We all know what OP is talking about and it's not what you are implying.

NP, OP needs this feedback. As someone who’s battled frizzy, curly hair for decades, it took finally trying over $75 worth of various products in one month to find an affordable combination that works *most* days. It’s just so, so hard to manage frizzy hair, especially if you swim. If OP says frizzy, people are going to get off-track. Instead, OP should say, uncombed. I comb my hair after my morning shower, but on humid days, it will frizz. If I feel it into submission, it looks wet all day. There is no winning.

+1
OP is a garbage human. I have hair that frizzes like crazy in humidity. Unless they want it gelled to my head 24/7, its probably going to look a little frizzy. I'd apparently be fired by OP because it was less feminine or ladylike than the blonde b****es with straight a** hair.
GFYS OP.

Whoaaa. I have naturally straight hair, that hardly makes me a “b”. Die mad a lot it with your ugly frizzy hair I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was unprepared for the aesthetic of this year's crop of new hires. They dress horribly - sweatpants, messy hair (looks like they just got out of bed), crocs or other plastic shoes, rumpled t-shirts. For some tasks this is OK, but a lot of the time we are meeting with clients and doing site visits, and we are in the design industry, meaning we generally consider our look part of our branding. Our brand is high end but creative, so there is a lot of leeway, but I just don't know how to tell the younger adults how to dress without offending anyone or being seen to police bodies or hairstyles. But I need them not just to adhere to a list of "don't wear this," but to actively look good. Like, hair combed and styled, preferably some makeup for women, and so on. Does anyone else have this issue and how did you handle it?

Right....and Im sure you would consider a man wearing makeup and nail polish to be suitably dressed and pleasingly aesthetically to your clients?

I dont wear makeup because its dumb, expensive, and lots of chemicals for no real purpose. Sunscreen chemicals get balanced with sun exposure and risk of cancer. There is no balance benefit to makeup besides societal expectations. Not to mention that most people have no idea how much makeup it takes to make a "no makeup" look.

I'm fine if they don't want to wear makeup, but I'm not fine with a messy, frizzy ponytail topping it off. I don't care what the specific look is, but I need them to look good. Our clients are dressed up, our brand is high end and all about aesthetics. I can't even bring them into the sites with me sometimes because they look so bad that I'm sure they would cost us a sale.

Provide a budget for this. For me to go beyond what you would probably view as “a messy, frizzy ponytail “ I’d need to get quarterly relaxers and cuts for $200+ per visit, and add significant health risks to my profile. Heat styling would be safer — but exponentially more expensive and time consuming because of their frequency. What are you offering here?
Also, “aesthetics” is a judgement call. Are you positive that your own judgements and the client’s are aligned?

Some of you are really insufferable. I have thick, curly, fizzy hair and manage to look put together every day. I get my hair products at CVS and it costs $10. Grow up and learn hot to groom appropriately.

Thanks for whytesplaing! Really! Soooooo helpful! Now tell us exactly which $10 CVS product transforms your “thick, curly, fizzy (sic) hair” into your version of “put together”! Any thoughts on whether it will work well on 3c - 4c hair?

“hot to groom”? “hot” and “fizzy”? As my GGM would say: “Consider the source.” Lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was unprepared for the aesthetic of this year's crop of new hires. They dress horribly - sweatpants, messy hair (looks like they just got out of bed), crocs or other plastic shoes, rumpled t-shirts. For some tasks this is OK, but a lot of the time we are meeting with clients and doing site visits, and we are in the design industry, meaning we generally consider our look part of our branding. Our brand is high end but creative, so there is a lot of leeway, but I just don't know how to tell the younger adults how to dress without offending anyone or being seen to police bodies or hairstyles. But I need them not just to adhere to a list of "don't wear this," but to actively look good. Like, hair combed and styled, preferably some makeup for women, and so on. Does anyone else have this issue and how did you handle it?

Right....and Im sure you would consider a man wearing makeup and nail polish to be suitably dressed and pleasingly aesthetically to your clients?

I dont wear makeup because its dumb, expensive, and lots of chemicals for no real purpose. Sunscreen chemicals get balanced with sun exposure and risk of cancer. There is no balance benefit to makeup besides societal expectations. Not to mention that most people have no idea how much makeup it takes to make a "no makeup" look.

I'm fine if they don't want to wear makeup, but I'm not fine with a messy, frizzy ponytail topping it off. I don't care what the specific look is, but I need them to look good. Our clients are dressed up, our brand is high end and all about aesthetics. I can't even bring them into the sites with me sometimes because they look so bad that I'm sure they would cost us a sale.

You know some people can't help if they have frizzy hair? You sound seriously superficial. You are going to get your workplace sued for discrimination if you keep this sh*t up.

Oh please. We all know what OP is talking about and it's not what you are implying.

NP, OP needs this feedback. As someone who’s battled frizzy, curly hair for decades, it took finally trying over $75 worth of various products in one month to find an affordable combination that works *most* days. It’s just so, so hard to manage frizzy hair, especially if you swim. If OP says frizzy, people are going to get off-track. Instead, OP should say, uncombed. I comb my hair after my morning shower, but on humid days, it will frizz. If I feel it into submission, it looks wet all day. There is no winning.

+1
OP is a garbage human. I have hair that frizzes like crazy in humidity. Unless they want it gelled to my head 24/7, its probably going to look a little frizzy. I'd apparently be fired by OP because it was less feminine or ladylike than the blonde b****es with straight a** hair.
GFYS OP.

Whoaaa. I have naturally straight hair, that hardly makes me a “b”. Die mad a lot it with your ugly frizzy hair I guess.

Nowhere in that post does it say "ugly", interesting that you inferred that. Check your misogyny babe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was unprepared for the aesthetic of this year's crop of new hires. They dress horribly - sweatpants, messy hair (looks like they just got out of bed), crocs or other plastic shoes, rumpled t-shirts. For some tasks this is OK, but a lot of the time we are meeting with clients and doing site visits, and we are in the design industry, meaning we generally consider our look part of our branding. Our brand is high end but creative, so there is a lot of leeway, but I just don't know how to tell the younger adults how to dress without offending anyone or being seen to police bodies or hairstyles. But I need them not just to adhere to a list of "don't wear this," but to actively look good. Like, hair combed and styled, preferably some makeup for women, and so on. Does anyone else have this issue and how did you handle it?

Right....and Im sure you would consider a man wearing makeup and nail polish to be suitably dressed and pleasingly aesthetically to your clients?

I dont wear makeup because its dumb, expensive, and lots of chemicals for no real purpose. Sunscreen chemicals get balanced with sun exposure and risk of cancer. There is no balance benefit to makeup besides societal expectations. Not to mention that most people have no idea how much makeup it takes to make a "no makeup" look.

I'm fine if they don't want to wear makeup, but I'm not fine with a messy, frizzy ponytail topping it off. I don't care what the specific look is, but I need them to look good. Our clients are dressed up, our brand is high end and all about aesthetics. I can't even bring them into the sites with me sometimes because they look so bad that I'm sure they would cost us a sale.

You know some people can't help if they have frizzy hair? You sound seriously superficial. You are going to get your workplace sued for discrimination if you keep this sh*t up.

Oh please. We all know what OP is talking about and it's not what you are implying.

NP, OP needs this feedback. As someone who’s battled frizzy, curly hair for decades, it took finally trying over $75 worth of various products in one month to find an affordable combination that works *most* days. It’s just so, so hard to manage frizzy hair, especially if you swim. If OP says frizzy, people are going to get off-track. Instead, OP should say, uncombed. I comb my hair after my morning shower, but on humid days, it will frizz. If I feel it into submission, it looks wet all day. There is no winning.

+1
OP is a garbage human. I have hair that frizzes like crazy in humidity. Unless they want it gelled to my head 24/7, its probably going to look a little frizzy. I'd apparently be fired by OP because it was less feminine or ladylike than the blonde b****es with straight a** hair.
GFYS OP.

Whoaaa. I have naturally straight hair, that hardly makes me a “b”. Die mad a lot it with your ugly frizzy hair I guess.

Nowhere in that post does it say "ugly", interesting that you inferred that. Check your misogyny babe.

There is no way you would be so hateful towards women who have straight hair if you had nice hair. That said frizzy pretty much automatically equals ugly sooooo

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is one of those things where Society advances one funeral at a time.

Makes no sense to have to dress to impress. The product or service should be enough.

And then you woke up to reality and obviously know nothing about sales.

I know about sales: I’m a consumer. It’s really simple: if I need a product, I buy it. I don’t care what you look like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was unprepared for the aesthetic of this year's crop of new hires. They dress horribly - sweatpants, messy hair (looks like they just got out of bed), crocs or other plastic shoes, rumpled t-shirts. For some tasks this is OK, but a lot of the time we are meeting with clients and doing site visits, and we are in the design industry, meaning we generally consider our look part of our branding. Our brand is high end but creative, so there is a lot of leeway, but I just don't know how to tell the younger adults how to dress without offending anyone or being seen to police bodies or hairstyles. But I need them not just to adhere to a list of "don't wear this," but to actively look good. Like, hair combed and styled, preferably some makeup for women, and so on. Does anyone else have this issue and how did you handle it?

Right....and Im sure you would consider a man wearing makeup and nail polish to be suitably dressed and pleasingly aesthetically to your clients?

I dont wear makeup because its dumb, expensive, and lots of chemicals for no real purpose. Sunscreen chemicals get balanced with sun exposure and risk of cancer. There is no balance benefit to makeup besides societal expectations. Not to mention that most people have no idea how much makeup it takes to make a "no makeup" look.

I'm fine if they don't want to wear makeup, but I'm not fine with a messy, frizzy ponytail topping it off. I don't care what the specific look is, but I need them to look good. Our clients are dressed up, our brand is high end and all about aesthetics. I can't even bring them into the sites with me sometimes because they look so bad that I'm sure they would cost us a sale.

Interesting? How many men under you have enough hair for a ponytail?

Two, and ironically, they are the exceptions. One wears dreds, and the other wears a man bun. Neither one ever wears a messy ponytail with bits hanging out and sticking out all over like they just got out of bed or were exercising or something. Also, both are a bit older than the newer kids, which is probably the difference. Your response is exactly why this is so difficult - it's impossible to find a way to ask people to look neat and well-groomed, in whatever style they prefer, without seeming sexist or otherwise out of touch.

So I want to be clear that you have 2 Male employees with dreds and a man bun and they are put together enough for you but somehow all of the women with a bun/ponytail do NOT?

Do the males also dress appropriately in your opinion?

I am beginning to think that you may have a lot higher threshold for appropriate dress for women than you do men. Honestly, I am not being snarky. Its internalized and if you are a woman, then you have likely had to keep these standards and now think other women should too.

There tends to be some underlying sexual overtones in the business world where businesses with prettier females are rated higher because of the world we all grew up in, regardless of the scope of work and/or the product. This happens in places like restaurants all the freaking time. Females dress up and thats what they are judged by and if pretty enough they can give mediocre service and still get great tips. Guys can be somewhat unkempt or not good looking and if they have a personality then its fine. Girls cannot do the same, by and large.

Just tread carefully because Gen Z doesnt care about those rules.

DP. I think you must be Gen Z and are just trying to be combative and/or worked in a restaurant and got bad tips. There is a huge difference between well-done dreds or a man bun and anyone who throws their hair back in a messy ponytail. Well-done dreds and man buns absolutely can be perfect for a creative office environment, provided they are combined with appropriate work casual clothes.

No I am almost 40 years old but there is a lot of female-focused corrections in her post. I 100% agree with you on dreds and man bun and most men look amazing with both. But her comments about dress that started it mentioned makeup and messy ponytails and then she made sure to mention that even the women in the firms they visit have suits on. Most men dont wear yoga pants, which she mentioned when she suggested slacks nor do they wear athletic tights but I could be wrong.

Lastly, OP has refused to answer how they were dressed when they interviewed nor the suggestions that this should be done with HR. I could have missed her responses to those very frequent suggestions on this topic.

Also, I'm the combative one but you aren't for mentioning that I must have received "bad tips" because I put into written word that women are expected to be prettier in almost all occupations especially in service roles?

I have a sense the OP stands by what whe said. All of these comments are just whataboutism and excuses. Just say you want to dress however you want and look however you want and are not concerned with norms but all of these attempts to tell her oooh you are such a bad person fall flat.