Need help getting Gen Z hires to dress better at work

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was unprepared for the aesthetic of this year's crop of new hires. They dress horribly - sweatpants, messy hair (looks like they just got out of bed), crocs or other plastic shoes, rumpled t-shirts. For some tasks this is OK, but a lot of the time we are meeting with clients and doing site visits, and we are in the design industry, meaning we generally consider our look part of our branding. Our brand is high end but creative, so there is a lot of leeway, but I just don't know how to tell the younger adults how to dress without offending anyone or being seen to police bodies or hairstyles. But I need them not just to adhere to a list of "don't wear this," but to actively look good. Like, hair combed and styled, preferably some makeup for women, and so on. Does anyone else have this issue and how did you handle it?

Right....and Im sure you would consider a man wearing makeup and nail polish to be suitably dressed and pleasingly aesthetically to your clients?

I dont wear makeup because its dumb, expensive, and lots of chemicals for no real purpose. Sunscreen chemicals get balanced with sun exposure and risk of cancer. There is no balance benefit to makeup besides societal expectations. Not to mention that most people have no idea how much makeup it takes to make a "no makeup" look.

I'm fine if they don't want to wear makeup, but I'm not fine with a messy, frizzy ponytail topping it off. I don't care what the specific look is, but I need them to look good. Our clients are dressed up, our brand is high end and all about aesthetics. I can't even bring them into the sites with me sometimes because they look so bad that I'm sure they would cost us a sale.

You know some people can't help if they have frizzy hair? You sound seriously superficial. You are going to get your workplace sued for discrimination if you keep this sh*t up.

Oh please. We all know what OP is talking about and it's not what you are implying.

NP, OP needs this feedback. As someone who’s battled frizzy, curly hair for decades, it took finally trying over $75 worth of various products in one month to find an affordable combination that works *most* days. It’s just so, so hard to manage frizzy hair, especially if you swim. If OP says frizzy, people are going to get off-track. Instead, OP should say, uncombed. I comb my hair after my morning shower, but on humid days, it will frizz. If I feel it into submission, it looks wet all day. There is no winning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was unprepared for the aesthetic of this year's crop of new hires. They dress horribly - sweatpants, messy hair (looks like they just got out of bed), crocs or other plastic shoes, rumpled t-shirts. For some tasks this is OK, but a lot of the time we are meeting with clients and doing site visits, and we are in the design industry, meaning we generally consider our look part of our branding. Our brand is high end but creative, so there is a lot of leeway, but I just don't know how to tell the younger adults how to dress without offending anyone or being seen to police bodies or hairstyles. But I need them not just to adhere to a list of "don't wear this," but to actively look good. Like, hair combed and styled, preferably some makeup for women, and so on. Does anyone else have this issue and how did you handle it?

Right....and Im sure you would consider a man wearing makeup and nail polish to be suitably dressed and pleasingly aesthetically to your clients?

I dont wear makeup because its dumb, expensive, and lots of chemicals for no real purpose. Sunscreen chemicals get balanced with sun exposure and risk of cancer. There is no balance benefit to makeup besides societal expectations. Not to mention that most people have no idea how much makeup it takes to make a "no makeup" look.

I'm fine if they don't want to wear makeup, but I'm not fine with a messy, frizzy ponytail topping it off. I don't care what the specific look is, but I need them to look good. Our clients are dressed up, our brand is high end and all about aesthetics. I can't even bring them into the sites with me sometimes because they look so bad that I'm sure they would cost us a sale.

You know some people can't help if they have frizzy hair? You sound seriously superficial. You are going to get your workplace sued for discrimination if you keep this sh*t up.

Oh please. We all know what OP is talking about and it's not what you are implying.

NP, OP needs this feedback. As someone who’s battled frizzy, curly hair for decades, it took finally trying over $75 worth of various products in one month to find an affordable combination that works *most* days. It’s just so, so hard to manage frizzy hair, especially if you swim. If OP says frizzy, people are going to get off-track. Instead, OP should say, uncombed. I comb my hair after my morning shower, but on humid days, it will frizz. If I gel it into submission, it looks wet all day. There is no winning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe you are just and old fuddy duddy and not "in" with the new styles? You sound like my grandmother tut-tutting my perfectly normal outfits.

If your clients are creative, they may be more likely to appreciate the GenZ style vs a fuddy duddy.

Sweatpants and flip flops are not trendy styles, they’re unprofessional. Does your company have any sort of policy stating business casual, or professional, etc? You can’t address gender or make up but you can specify no flip flips, athletic clothing, leisure wear for all genders. Even differentiate between attire for outside clients vs more casual clothing for internal tasks only.

I've tried - but "slacks" translated as yoga pants for them, and no flip flops just means they wear other plastic sandals or athletic shoes. The issue is that they don't seem to have any clue how to dress. I'm considering a dress code that says something like "pretend you're going to the club." Surely they don't go out like this?

This should have been covered in orientation, but since it was not, you need to take the blame/responsibility and do it now.

There are like a million articles on this out there. Here's one (slightly dated) from the Harvard Business Review: https://hbr.org/2017/05/how-to-give-an-employee-feedback-about-their-appearance

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was unprepared for the aesthetic of this year's crop of new hires. They dress horribly - sweatpants, messy hair (looks like they just got out of bed), crocs or other plastic shoes, rumpled t-shirts. For some tasks this is OK, but a lot of the time we are meeting with clients and doing site visits, and we are in the design industry, meaning we generally consider our look part of our branding. Our brand is high end but creative, so there is a lot of leeway, but I just don't know how to tell the younger adults how to dress without offending anyone or being seen to police bodies or hairstyles. But I need them not just to adhere to a list of "don't wear this," but to actively look good. Like, hair combed and styled, preferably some makeup for women, and so on. Does anyone else have this issue and how did you handle it?

Right....and Im sure you would consider a man wearing makeup and nail polish to be suitably dressed and pleasingly aesthetically to your clients?

I dont wear makeup because its dumb, expensive, and lots of chemicals for no real purpose. Sunscreen chemicals get balanced with sun exposure and risk of cancer. There is no balance benefit to makeup besides societal expectations. Not to mention that most people have no idea how much makeup it takes to make a "no makeup" look.

I'm fine if they don't want to wear makeup, but I'm not fine with a messy, frizzy ponytail topping it off. I don't care what the specific look is, but I need them to look good. Our clients are dressed up, our brand is high end and all about aesthetics. I can't even bring them into the sites with me sometimes because they look so bad that I'm sure they would cost us a sale.

You know some people can't help if they have frizzy hair? You sound seriously superficial. You are going to get your workplace sued for discrimination if you keep this sh*t up.

Oh please. We all know what OP is talking about and it's not what you are implying.

NP, OP needs this feedback. As someone who’s battled frizzy, curly hair for decades, it took finally trying over $75 worth of various products in one month to find an affordable combination that works *most* days. It’s just so, so hard to manage frizzy hair, especially if you swim. If OP says frizzy, people are going to get off-track. Instead, OP should say, uncombed. I comb my hair after my morning shower, but on humid days, it will frizz. If I feel it into submission, it looks wet all day. There is no winning.

+1
OP is a garbage human. I have hair that frizzes like crazy in humidity. Unless they want it gelled to my head 24/7, its probably going to look a little frizzy. I'd apparently be fired by OP because it was less feminine or ladylike than the blonde b****es with straight a** hair.
GFYS OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was unprepared for the aesthetic of this year's crop of new hires. They dress horribly - sweatpants, messy hair (looks like they just got out of bed), crocs or other plastic shoes, rumpled t-shirts. For some tasks this is OK, but a lot of the time we are meeting with clients and doing site visits, and we are in the design industry, meaning we generally consider our look part of our branding. Our brand is high end but creative, so there is a lot of leeway, but I just don't know how to tell the younger adults how to dress without offending anyone or being seen to police bodies or hairstyles. But I need them not just to adhere to a list of "don't wear this," but to actively look good. Like, hair combed and styled, preferably some makeup for women, and so on. Does anyone else have this issue and how did you handle it?

Right....and Im sure you would consider a man wearing makeup and nail polish to be suitably dressed and pleasingly aesthetically to your clients?

I dont wear makeup because its dumb, expensive, and lots of chemicals for no real purpose. Sunscreen chemicals get balanced with sun exposure and risk of cancer. There is no balance benefit to makeup besides societal expectations. Not to mention that most people have no idea how much makeup it takes to make a "no makeup" look.

I'm fine if they don't want to wear makeup, but I'm not fine with a messy, frizzy ponytail topping it off. I don't care what the specific look is, but I need them to look good. Our clients are dressed up, our brand is high end and all about aesthetics. I can't even bring them into the sites with me sometimes because they look so bad that I'm sure they would cost us a sale.

Interesting? How many men under you have enough hair for a ponytail?

Two, and ironically, they are the exceptions. One wears dreds, and the other wears a man bun. Neither one ever wears a messy ponytail with bits hanging out and sticking out all over like they just got out of bed or were exercising or something. Also, both are a bit older than the newer kids, which is probably the difference. Your response is exactly why this is so difficult - it's impossible to find a way to ask people to look neat and well-groomed, in whatever style they prefer, without seeming sexist or otherwise out of touch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was unprepared for the aesthetic of this year's crop of new hires. They dress horribly - sweatpants, messy hair (looks like they just got out of bed), crocs or other plastic shoes, rumpled t-shirts. For some tasks this is OK, but a lot of the time we are meeting with clients and doing site visits, and we are in the design industry, meaning we generally consider our look part of our branding. Our brand is high end but creative, so there is a lot of leeway, but I just don't know how to tell the younger adults how to dress without offending anyone or being seen to police bodies or hairstyles. But I need them not just to adhere to a list of "don't wear this," but to actively look good. Like, hair combed and styled, preferably some makeup for women, and so on. Does anyone else have this issue and how did you handle it?

Right....and Im sure you would consider a man wearing makeup and nail polish to be suitably dressed and pleasingly aesthetically to your clients?

I dont wear makeup because its dumb, expensive, and lots of chemicals for no real purpose. Sunscreen chemicals get balanced with sun exposure and risk of cancer. There is no balance benefit to makeup besides societal expectations. Not to mention that most people have no idea how much makeup it takes to make a "no makeup" look.

I'm fine if they don't want to wear makeup, but I'm not fine with a messy, frizzy ponytail topping it off. I don't care what the specific look is, but I need them to look good. Our clients are dressed up, our brand is high end and all about aesthetics. I can't even bring them into the sites with me sometimes because they look so bad that I'm sure they would cost us a sale.

You know some people can't help if they have frizzy hair? You sound seriously superficial. You are going to get your workplace sued for discrimination if you keep this sh*t up.

Oh please. We all know what OP is talking about and it's not what you are implying.

NP, OP needs this feedback. As someone who’s battled frizzy, curly hair for decades, it took finally trying over $75 worth of various products in one month to find an affordable combination that works *most* days. It’s just so, so hard to manage frizzy hair, especially if you swim. If OP says frizzy, people are going to get off-track. Instead, OP should say, uncombed. I comb my hair after my morning shower, but on humid days, it will frizz. If I feel it into submission, it looks wet all day. There is no winning.

+1
OP is a garbage human. I have hair that frizzes like crazy in humidity. Unless they want it gelled to my head 24/7, its probably going to look a little frizzy. I'd apparently be fired by OP because it was less feminine or ladylike than the blonde b****es with straight a** hair.
GFYS OP.

This is OP. Thank you for your unhelpful post. I also have frizzy, naturally curly hair. However, when I'm working inside, in an air-conditioned environment, I can manage to get it tamed to the point where it doesn't look like I just rolled out of bed, regardless of the frizz. I'm not saying my hair looks good, ever, but it at least looks like I'm trying. And I can usually manage an actual hairstyle, versus an sloppy elastic band with half the hair falling out which, combined with athletic tights and a rumpled t-shirt, is probably not what you consider professional attire. Or is it? Would you go to a formal meeting with a client looking like that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was unprepared for the aesthetic of this year's crop of new hires. They dress horribly - sweatpants, messy hair (looks like they just got out of bed), crocs or other plastic shoes, rumpled t-shirts. For some tasks this is OK, but a lot of the time we are meeting with clients and doing site visits, and we are in the design industry, meaning we generally consider our look part of our branding. Our brand is high end but creative, so there is a lot of leeway, but I just don't know how to tell the younger adults how to dress without offending anyone or being seen to police bodies or hairstyles. But I need them not just to adhere to a list of "don't wear this," but to actively look good. Like, hair combed and styled, preferably some makeup for women, and so on. Does anyone else have this issue and how did you handle it?

Right....and Im sure you would consider a man wearing makeup and nail polish to be suitably dressed and pleasingly aesthetically to your clients?

I dont wear makeup because its dumb, expensive, and lots of chemicals for no real purpose. Sunscreen chemicals get balanced with sun exposure and risk of cancer. There is no balance benefit to makeup besides societal expectations. Not to mention that most people have no idea how much makeup it takes to make a "no makeup" look.

I'm fine if they don't want to wear makeup, but I'm not fine with a messy, frizzy ponytail topping it off. I don't care what the specific look is, but I need them to look good. Our clients are dressed up, our brand is high end and all about aesthetics. I can't even bring them into the sites with me sometimes because they look so bad that I'm sure they would cost us a sale.

You know some people can't help if they have frizzy hair? You sound seriously superficial. You are going to get your workplace sued for discrimination if you keep this sh*t up.

Oh please. We all know what OP is talking about and it's not what you are implying.

NP, OP needs this feedback. As someone who’s battled frizzy, curly hair for decades, it took finally trying over $75 worth of various products in one month to find an affordable combination that works *most* days. It’s just so, so hard to manage frizzy hair, especially if you swim. If OP says frizzy, people are going to get off-track. Instead, OP should say, uncombed. I comb my hair after my morning shower, but on humid days, it will frizz. If I feel it into submission, it looks wet all day. There is no winning.

OP here, and you are precisely correct. I also have frizzy hair, and I also swim. But people are really stuck on that, when all I meant was uncombed and messy. Or, in the case of us curly haired girls, just completely undone, probably for more than a day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was unprepared for the aesthetic of this year's crop of new hires. They dress horribly - sweatpants, messy hair (looks like they just got out of bed), crocs or other plastic shoes, rumpled t-shirts. For some tasks this is OK, but a lot of the time we are meeting with clients and doing site visits, and we are in the design industry, meaning we generally consider our look part of our branding. Our brand is high end but creative, so there is a lot of leeway, but I just don't know how to tell the younger adults how to dress without offending anyone or being seen to police bodies or hairstyles. But I need them not just to adhere to a list of "don't wear this," but to actively look good. Like, hair combed and styled, preferably some makeup for women, and so on. Does anyone else have this issue and how did you handle it?

Right....and Im sure you would consider a man wearing makeup and nail polish to be suitably dressed and pleasingly aesthetically to your clients?

I dont wear makeup because its dumb, expensive, and lots of chemicals for no real purpose. Sunscreen chemicals get balanced with sun exposure and risk of cancer. There is no balance benefit to makeup besides societal expectations. Not to mention that most people have no idea how much makeup it takes to make a "no makeup" look.

I'm fine if they don't want to wear makeup, but I'm not fine with a messy, frizzy ponytail topping it off. I don't care what the specific look is, but I need them to look good. Our clients are dressed up, our brand is high end and all about aesthetics. I can't even bring them into the sites with me sometimes because they look so bad that I'm sure they would cost us a sale.

You know some people can't help if they have frizzy hair? You sound seriously superficial. You are going to get your workplace sued for discrimination if you keep this sh*t up.

Even the most frizzy hair can look styled and put together.

OP said women must wear makeup, and can't have frizzy hair - a pony is considered a style. S/he sounds like an awful manager. Misogyny at it's finest!

I'm OP, and I did not say women must wear makeup. Nor did I say they can't have frizzy hair. Your attitude illustrates my point exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was unprepared for the aesthetic of this year's crop of new hires. They dress horribly - sweatpants, messy hair (looks like they just got out of bed), crocs or other plastic shoes, rumpled t-shirts. For some tasks this is OK, but a lot of the time we are meeting with clients and doing site visits, and we are in the design industry, meaning we generally consider our look part of our branding. Our brand is high end but creative, so there is a lot of leeway, but I just don't know how to tell the younger adults how to dress without offending anyone or being seen to police bodies or hairstyles. But I need them not just to adhere to a list of "don't wear this," but to actively look good. Like, hair combed and styled, preferably some makeup for women, and so on. Does anyone else have this issue and how did you handle it?

Right....and Im sure you would consider a man wearing makeup and nail polish to be suitably dressed and pleasingly aesthetically to your clients?

I dont wear makeup because its dumb, expensive, and lots of chemicals for no real purpose. Sunscreen chemicals get balanced with sun exposure and risk of cancer. There is no balance benefit to makeup besides societal expectations. Not to mention that most people have no idea how much makeup it takes to make a "no makeup" look.

I'm fine if they don't want to wear makeup, but I'm not fine with a messy, frizzy ponytail topping it off. I don't care what the specific look is, but I need them to look good. Our clients are dressed up, our brand is high end and all about aesthetics. I can't even bring them into the sites with me sometimes because they look so bad that I'm sure they would cost us a sale.

Provide a budget for this. For me to go beyond what you would probably view as “a messy, frizzy ponytail “ I’d need to get quarterly relaxers and cuts for $200+ per visit, and add significant health risks to my profile. Heat styling would be safer — but exponentially more expensive and time consuming because of their frequency. What are you offering here?
Also, “aesthetics” is a judgement call. Are you positive that your own judgements and the client’s are aligned?

OP here, I'm not asking for anyone to relax their hair. I'm hoping women will just try to look good, whatever that means. You can look professional with any type of hair. But just rolling out of bed and sticking it in a ponytail and then not touching it for the rest of the day - as if you are going jogging and not to an important client meeting - is generally not going to cut it, especially if you are also sans makeup and wearing sweats and crocs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe you are just and old fuddy duddy and not "in" with the new styles? You sound like my grandmother tut-tutting my perfectly normal outfits.

If your clients are creative, they may be more likely to appreciate the GenZ style vs a fuddy duddy.

There has always been business attire and casual attire.
People in my office also notice that Gen Z dioesn't dress appropriately. Today one wore a cream colored see through dreess and we can all see her tongue underwear. Another one is wearing a crop top that exposes her belly with leather pants. Nothing fuddy duddy about workplace guidelines about what not to wear.

At a creative workplace a crop top doesnt seem inappropriate, unless your dress code guidelines specifically prohibit that.

I'm not sure what tongue underwear is.

This is OP. My Gen Z's last year were all wearing short shorts that had their butts hanging out. I was afraid to say anything specifically so I just made a rule about no shorts for anyone if we are meeting clients. I don't care if their butts hang out around the office. This year's aren't doing the super revealing things, probably because that would require actual effort.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I’m an old fuddy duddy contractor who works remotely, but I had to go to the office a couple of times this summer and was shocked at what I saw on commuters who seemed to also be going to work - peak commute time, on the bus, going to business district where it is mostly office buildings. Granted it was in the really hot spell…
I agree, I think your org needs a dress code and some instruction. Maybe small bonuses to help them build a wardrobe. It is hard starting out and most recent grads have been living in casual casual wear - Covid, school….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd circulate a list of do's and don'ts. I don't have the energy for this anymore.
1. No wrinkled clothing.
2. No clothing/shoes you would wear to the beach.
3. No clothing/shoes you would wear to the gym.
4. No clothing/shoes you would wear on a weekend in or to a club.
4. When going to client meetings, dress for them, not for you. That means:
--clean, pressed clothing that fits your body
-- nothing too tight or too loose
- hair that is groomed and conservative

And I'd put a deck together with a couple of slides of appropriate and not appropriate.

I'm not sugar-coating shit anymore.

Now we're talking. Thank you. I'm scared to do slides, but I like the lines about nothing you would wear to ___. --OP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is one of those things where Society advances one funeral at a time.

Makes no sense to have to dress to impress. The product or service should be enough.

And then you woke up to reality and obviously know nothing about sales.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was unprepared for the aesthetic of this year's crop of new hires. They dress horribly - sweatpants, messy hair (looks like they just got out of bed), crocs or other plastic shoes, rumpled t-shirts. For some tasks this is OK, but a lot of the time we are meeting with clients and doing site visits, and we are in the design industry, meaning we generally consider our look part of our branding. Our brand is high end but creative, so there is a lot of leeway, but I just don't know how to tell the younger adults how to dress without offending anyone or being seen to police bodies or hairstyles. But I need them not just to adhere to a list of "don't wear this," but to actively look good. Like, hair combed and styled, preferably some makeup for women, and so on. Does anyone else have this issue and how did you handle it?

Right....and Im sure you would consider a man wearing makeup and nail polish to be suitably dressed and pleasingly aesthetically to your clients?

I dont wear makeup because its dumb, expensive, and lots of chemicals for no real purpose. Sunscreen chemicals get balanced with sun exposure and risk of cancer. There is no balance benefit to makeup besides societal expectations. Not to mention that most people have no idea how much makeup it takes to make a "no makeup" look.

I'm fine if they don't want to wear makeup, but I'm not fine with a messy, frizzy ponytail topping it off. I don't care what the specific look is, but I need them to look good. Our clients are dressed up, our brand is high end and all about aesthetics. I can't even bring them into the sites with me sometimes because they look so bad that I'm sure they would cost us a sale.

You know some people can't help if they have frizzy hair? You sound seriously superficial. You are going to get your workplace sued for discrimination if you keep this sh*t up.

Even the most frizzy hair can look styled and put together.

OP said women must wear makeup, and can't have frizzy hair - a pony is considered a style. S/he sounds like an awful manager. Misogyny at it's finest!

Actually, he/she didn't say must. said it's preferable. But an unkempt pony is not a style. It looks lazy and like you just rolled out of bed. Are we going to consider eye boogers a style too going forward? How about bad breath?

You cannot dictate women wearing makeup as a job requirement. You cannot "prefer" women wear makeup as a job requirement. You cannot dictate that women don't have frizzy hair. OP is a misogynistic POS.

Of course, you can!!! For example, news anchors, actors, models, etc.

OP here. Yes, you are correct, we can. Some of our work involves staging and photography, and we often photograph our employees for social media, and I always hope on those occasions they will at least not look absolutely awful. Makeup is not really required for everyone to look presentable in a photo, but it certainly would help. Every once in a while, if it's going to be photographed widely, the company will actually spring for professional makeup for everyone, and sometimes even wardrobe. We can't afford to do that very often, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why not just tell them "For client meetings, please dress and present yourself neatly and professionally. Our employees are part of the brand and we need to present the image to our clients that we are also trying to sell to them. Please dress and present yourself accordingly." and see how that goes before trying anything crazy like a specific dress code.

Op here. Tried this. Zero effect. It netted me a lot of sweatpants and other gym clothes. I think one person wore a button down with sweatpants.