Teacher only writes “elite” students college recommendations

[Anonymous]

OP here.

There have been a lot of other people posting. I am summarizing again my opinion and adding some additional context and caution.

I thought a recommendation process offered by a teacher in a core subject added unnecessary stress to the college app process. Teacher has students apply for recommendations prior to the end of their junior school year and told them she makes decision midsummer after AP exam results come out. She tells them not to contact her before AP results to get any sort of feedback. A student with an A average and a 4 AP score (like my child) is likely to think they will be recommended. If the teacher generally only takes 5s, I think the teacher should explain that on her app. Alternatively if my child was never going to be recommended, why not tell my child immediately rather than having them wait until the middle of the summer? That’s my fundamental issue.

Most teachers close their app deadline at the end of the students junior school year. Fortunately, my child asked three teachers (just in case) the one didn’t pan out.

I appreciate the teachers who have chimed in to hear how much work these recommendation letters are. Going to a strong school, it’s very possible my child was 1 out of 100 students who scored 4 or higher on the exam with that teacher and perhaps 70 or more of them asked for recommendations so maybe she’s overwhelmed.

For parents who have kids that go to schools where everyone is a high performer please be cognizant that your kid may not get the wanted recommendation if your kid isn’t a superstar in a core area due to overwhelming workload of the number of recommendations these teachers get. Be incredibly thankful for the ones willing to write a recommendation letter.

[Anonymous]

OP: what's hard for many of us who have been through the process to understand is why you/your child are so set on wanting a recommendation from this one teacher who, based on your description, is making an already stressful situation more stressful. Why deal with someone who, as you describe it, has seen up an unreasonable process, especially since it sounds like your child is already blessed with two other teachers willing to recommend them? There is no teacher who provides the magic bullet for an application. And, bluntly, your child potentially holding a spot with another teacher who she might not use in the end, might, depending on that teacher's policies and whether they write their letters over the summer, be unfair to the teacher, if they are spending their time writing the letter over the summer, or other students if the teacher limits the numbers they recommend.

My child asked two teachers for letters their junior year. One said no, because they didn't feel they knew her work well enough. They moved on and requested another one. Ended up at a T15 school. There is no indispensable recommendation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

There have been a lot of other people posting. I am summarizing again my opinion and adding some additional context and caution.

I thought a recommendation process offered by a teacher in a core subject added unnecessary stress to the college app process. Teacher has students apply for recommendations prior to the end of their junior school year and told them she makes decision midsummer after AP exam results come out. She tells them not to contact her before AP results to get any sort of feedback. A student with an A average and a 4 AP score (like my child) is likely to think they will be recommended. If the teacher generally only takes 5s, I think the teacher should explain that on her app. Alternatively if my child was never going to be recommended, why not tell my child immediately rather than having them wait until the middle of the summer? That’s my fundamental issue.

Most teachers close their app deadline at the end of the students junior school year. Fortunately, my child asked three teachers (just in case) the one didn’t pan out.

I appreciate the teachers who have chimed in to hear how much work these recommendation letters are. Going to a strong school, it’s very possible my child was 1 out of 100 students who scored 4 or higher on the exam with that teacher and perhaps 70 or more of them asked for recommendations so maybe she’s overwhelmed.

For parents who have kids that go to schools where everyone is a high performer please be cognizant that your kid may not get the wanted recommendation if your kid isn’t a superstar in a core area due to overwhelming workload of the number of recommendations these teachers get. Be incredibly thankful for the ones willing to write a recommendation letter.

I agree with teachers only being wiling to write recommendations for kids who they think are genuinely good students worth recommending, but basing whether to write a recommendation on their AP score is insane.

[Anonymous]

PP- I agreed the process is unfair to everyone. My student who was denied midsummer due to an unnecessarily stressful process (despite good a AP score), other students that might miss out on a recommendation due to students asking for three since only two guaranteed, and other teachers who will receive late requests from denied students/ or ended up being third recommender creating extra work. I don’t think that was fair for anyone involved.

My child asked because they liked the teacher and thought they had a good shot- hard lesson learned.

[Anonymous]

My kids attend/attended a high performing MCPS HS. The oldest were good students but not standouts in that competitive environment. They still managed to get strong letters written. The key is they need to take the time during the school year to get to know their teachers if they want to have a shot at a thoughtful letter. This means they need to actively participate in classes and see teachers during advisory. They should put forth effort and always be respectful. The counselors warn the kids to ask for letters early on and not wait for the end of junior year when teachers have already reached their limit. We can’t expect teachers to say yes to every student. That’s unreasonable. My youngest is the weakest student of my 3 but I have faith he will find someone to write letters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I see nothing wrong with this.

It's a bummer for the average child who is applying to an average school. There's nothing wrong with being average. You're all implying that an average teen who has mediocre scores isn't deserving of a college recommendation - I have one of those average kids who is a hard worker but frankly just isn't that smart. You don't need AP courses and straight As to get into college and you don't need those to get a great job and have a solid career after college. Children who work hard and do their best shouldn't get screwed over just because they're not "elite".

[Anonymous]

The AP test scores are probably a reflection on her. It is obnoxious. Find a different teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

There have been a lot of other people posting. I am summarizing again my opinion and adding some additional context and caution.

I thought a recommendation process offered by a teacher in a core subject added unnecessary stress to the college app process. Teacher has students apply for recommendations prior to the end of their junior school year and told them she makes decision midsummer after AP exam results come out. She tells them not to contact her before AP results to get any sort of feedback. A student with an A average and a 4 AP score (like my child) is likely to think they will be recommended. If the teacher generally only takes 5s, I think the teacher should explain that on her app. Alternatively if my child was never going to be recommended, why not tell my child immediately rather than having them wait until the middle of the summer? That’s my fundamental issue.

Most teachers close their app deadline at the end of the students junior school year. Fortunately, my child asked three teachers (just in case) the one didn’t pan out.

I appreciate the teachers who have chimed in to hear how much work these recommendation letters are. Going to a strong school, it’s very possible my child was 1 out of 100 students who scored 4 or higher on the exam with that teacher and perhaps 70 or more of them asked for recommendations so maybe she’s overwhelmed.

For parents who have kids that go to schools where everyone is a high performer please be cognizant that your kid may not get the wanted recommendation if your kid isn’t a superstar in a core area due to overwhelming workload of the number of recommendations these teachers get. Be incredibly thankful for the ones willing to write a recommendation letter.

I agree with teachers only being wiling to write recommendations for kids who they think are genuinely good students worth recommending, but basing whether to write a recommendation on their AP score is insane.

That makes no sense to me. There is a college for every kid. So you might not recommend a kid to Harvard but maybe you would recommend him to a non flagship state college.

What teacher would not recommend a kid to any college? I thought teacher were supposed be about growth. We are talking about teenagers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Based on our experience, some teachers do the recs over the summer, and others take the summer off (their right to do, since they are not paid) and do them when school resumes. Both of my kid's recommenders got their recs in by the application deadlines, but later than my kid submitted, and it had zero negative impact on anything. It is frankly not reasonable to ask teachers, at public school at least, to get them in any earlier than that just because a kid wants to submit before the deadline. And if memory serves, the rolling schools to which my kid submitted did not require teacher recs.

So teacher want eager and hard working students but not so eager and hard working that it requires teachers to work earlier than they would like? Ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on our experience, some teachers do the recs over the summer, and others take the summer off (their right to do, since they are not paid) and do them when school resumes. Both of my kid's recommenders got their recs in by the application deadlines, but later than my kid submitted, and it had zero negative impact on anything. It is frankly not reasonable to ask teachers, at public school at least, to get them in any earlier than that just because a kid wants to submit before the deadline. And if memory serves, the rolling schools to which my kid submitted did not require teacher recs.

So teacher want eager and hard working students but not so eager and hard working that it requires teachers to work earlier than they would like? Ok.

DP.

I don’t understand your negative perspective here. Using the PP’s example:

If a student submits an application in September, but the teacher waits until October to submit a recommendation… guess what? NOTHING CHANGES. The students’ application isn’t going to be reviewed until after the 11/1 deadline anyway.

I appreciate you just want to insult teachers, but at least find a legitimate reason.

[Anonymous]

I’m a HS teacher who writes recommendations. I’m sorry but the teacher described in OP’s post sounds nuts. I would never base my recommendation solely on the AP score. If 100 kids are asking you, there are other ways to shrink down the number of letters you have to write. And if I’m not writing a letter for someone, I make sure to tell them right away or within a few days

[Anonymous]

I appreciate all the Teacher letter writers, and IME the teachers have been very upfront about their capacity and selection process for writing letters.

That said, I do agree with OP that basing selection on AP score is unusual, because a great, hardworking, diligent student can easily receive less than a 5 on the AP Test.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So how are B+ or even average students to obtain recommendations? You can ask the students to prepare a list of accomplishments, and I’m sure you have a template for recommendations. Ridiculous to try to put forward the notion that you are drafting each recommendation from scratch. Do your job.

I am writing recs for a few C students who scored 2 on the AP exam for my class. They worked hard, improved a lot from where they began, were polite and diligent in class, didn’t cheat, cut corners, or coast. I am happy to do this. It isn’t just the A students for me. But again, I can’t write 100+ recs each year, and using a template to try and do so would be harmful to all. Even our guidance counselors understand and support this.

Basically, don't be the average quiet girl. Stand out with good grades or lower grades but the appearance of hard work. The ones who work hard, but don't make a show of it, and get Bs end up SOL.

This is really insulting to me and to my colleagues. You think we can’t see or recognize who is working hard?

I think some kids just fly under the radar. With 30+ kids in a class, some kids don't get noticed

You can think what you want, but I work incredibly hard and I know all of my students. Even if they are quiet in class, you would be surprised at how well you can get to know someone’s learning style and approach to work when you read and write feedback on their timed writing compositions every other week.

I’m sorry you feel that your child’s teachers are incompetent.

NP and I think that the bolded is 100% true.

But I also think this is more of something that is true of humanities teachers than it is for, say, your calculus or chemistry teacher where everything is more analytical and mathematical, than personal insights into a kid’s mind an English teacher can get from reading their writing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If my child could not obtain recommendations for college I would contact the principal, the superintendent, and the school board. This is a basic duty and the idea that teachers can pick and choose has civil rights implications.

No, actually, because these are _recommendations_. In order to be recommended, a student has to do something that merits the recommendation. Basic good behavior, doing (nearly) all of the requested work, and displaying courtesy and respect towards everyone in the classroom are perfectly reasonable baselines. It is also not unreasonable for a teacher to have grade cutoffs for writing recommendations, with exceptions (as one PP already notes) for those who show growth rather than pure achievement - and growth can take many forms, including simply becoming more mature and reliable.

A recommendation is not a right - it is a privilege that has to be earned. A student who is unwilling to exercise the bare minimums I described above probably does not belong in college yet anyway.

[Anonymous]

It’s not a teacher requirement.