Teacher only writes “elite” students college recommendations

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how are B+ or even average students to obtain recommendations? You can ask the students to prepare a list of accomplishments, and I’m sure you have a template for recommendations. Ridiculous to try to put forward the notion that you are drafting each recommendation from scratch. Do your job.

I am writing recs for a few C students who scored 2 on the AP exam for my class. They worked hard, improved a lot from where they began, were polite and diligent in class, didn’t cheat, cut corners, or coast. I am happy to do this. It isn’t just the A students for me. But again, I can’t write 100+ recs each year, and using a template to try and do so would be harmful to all. Even our guidance counselors understand and support this.

Basically, don't be the average quiet girl. Stand out with good grades or lower grades but the appearance of hard work. The ones who work hard, but don't make a show of it, and get Bs end up SOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how are B+ or even average students to obtain recommendations? You can ask the students to prepare a list of accomplishments, and I’m sure you have a template for recommendations. Ridiculous to try to put forward the notion that you are drafting each recommendation from scratch. Do your job.

I am writing recs for a few C students who scored 2 on the AP exam for my class. They worked hard, improved a lot from where they began, were polite and diligent in class, didn’t cheat, cut corners, or coast. I am happy to do this. It isn’t just the A students for me. But again, I can’t write 100+ recs each year, and using a template to try and do so would be harmful to all. Even our guidance counselors understand and support this.

Basically, don't be the average quiet girl. Stand out with good grades or lower grades but the appearance of hard work. The ones who work hard, but don't make a show of it, and get Bs end up SOL.

OP here- In our case, don’t be the incredibly hard working quiet kid who never had a problem and scored a 4 on the AP exam with an A in the class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my child could not obtain recommendations for college I would contact the principal, the superintendent, and the school board. This is a basic duty and the idea that teachers can pick and choose has civil rights implications.

See, the thing is that the teacher is doing you a favor in declining to write a rec if they can’t write a good one. These are anonymous, and the teacher could very well write a negative one to avoid confrontations with parents like you when they try to politely decline. The sensible thing is to stick with teachers who you know can write a positive rec, not try to bully any teacher into writing one. You don’t want a letter of rec from a teacher who doesn’t think they can provide a glowing one.

For sure, and I appreciate the amount of work and thought teachers are clearly putting into these! It is clearly a labor of love.

I’m a DP, and it is also discouraging for me to hear how hard it must be for kids who have made mistakes to get recommendation letters. The letters are a key required component of applications, and it sounds like they may be challenging for many students to get. I have a kid with Bs and Cs, was once the class clown, and I am sure has used his phone in class. He’s grown a lot in the past couple years, but he’s got a way to go. He is also earnest, kind, and participates enthusiastically in discussion, so he does have teachers who know him and have offered to write his letters. But he could be the same kid and also shy and cranky and not have anyone who’d do that for him, and that seems unfair. Not criticizing teachers a bit - just observing that this phase of life is hard for kids who mature late, or who aren’t high achievers.

NP here. The letters of recommendation aren’t that critical for kids who aren’t high achievers. They are applying to middle of the road schools and need a recommendation that says they are a decent person. I teach science and I get requests from two types of students- STEM kids who were really engaged in class and I have a lot to say about, and average, nice kids who finally realized in late September they needed a letter, and I was the nice teacher who finally said yes. They all get into perfectly fine schools.

As a parent of a kid who falls into this category, thank you. My daughter realized that just getting a good grade and turning in work didn't mean teachers knew who she was let a lone would write a recommendation. She wasn't trying to get into Harvard or even UMD, she just needed the letter to complete applications

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here my concern is that kids find out whether they’ve been selected only after AP results are out.

It’s devastating to the kid who scored a 4 on the AP exam and earned semester As to find out MIDSUMMER that they didn’t make the cut in a group email. Most teachers close off their recommendations prior to the end of the school year. Would the teacher have recommended my kid if he/she had scored a 5 on the exam? If not, why do they wait until midsummer to tell child and what is the purpose of doing so? There is no feedback loop either. What if you have a quiet shy kid that doesn’t stand out.

I see there are a few teachers on the forum and I really do appreciate the time and effort that each teacher puts into recommendations. It feels incredibly unkind to hold onto these requests and let students know midsummer. If you had no intention of recommending my student, please let them know immediately so they can pivot and find someone else.

I’m one of the teachers who has posted several times already on this thread. I do NOT base my willingness to write a rec on the AP score. No other teacher on this thread has said they do that, either. In fact, I don’t know any teacher who does this. That is very unusual of this teacher. Part of a Common App rec is the letter itself, it there are also tick box lists of attributes in which we must rank the student, relating to things like reaction to setbacks, faculty respect, self confidence, and a bunch of other things. It isn’t supposed to be just for the AP 5s; the whole rec is meant to give a picture of the student’s journey. I don’t know if I would even want a rec from this teacher.

But even so, your child has time to ask another teacher at the start of the school year. He/she can even—politely, not criticizing or blaming!—mention what happened with the other teacher and the AP cutoff situation, which was not known until July. This should be done the first week of school, and in person, not email (can email brag sheet later, after teacher agrees). All is not lost, and this may turn out better in the end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how are B+ or even average students to obtain recommendations? You can ask the students to prepare a list of accomplishments, and I’m sure you have a template for recommendations. Ridiculous to try to put forward the notion that you are drafting each recommendation from scratch. Do your job.

I am writing recs for a few C students who scored 2 on the AP exam for my class. They worked hard, improved a lot from where they began, were polite and diligent in class, didn’t cheat, cut corners, or coast. I am happy to do this. It isn’t just the A students for me. But again, I can’t write 100+ recs each year, and using a template to try and do so would be harmful to all. Even our guidance counselors understand and support this.

Basically, don't be the average quiet girl. Stand out with good grades or lower grades but the appearance of hard work. The ones who work hard, but don't make a show of it, and get Bs end up SOL.

This is really insulting to me and to my colleagues. You think we can’t see or recognize who is working hard?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how are B+ or even average students to obtain recommendations? You can ask the students to prepare a list of accomplishments, and I’m sure you have a template for recommendations. Ridiculous to try to put forward the notion that you are drafting each recommendation from scratch. Do your job.

I am writing recs for a few C students who scored 2 on the AP exam for my class. They worked hard, improved a lot from where they began, were polite and diligent in class, didn’t cheat, cut corners, or coast. I am happy to do this. It isn’t just the A students for me. But again, I can’t write 100+ recs each year, and using a template to try and do so would be harmful to all. Even our guidance counselors understand and support this.

Basically, don't be the average quiet girl. Stand out with good grades or lower grades but the appearance of hard work. The ones who work hard, but don't make a show of it, and get Bs end up SOL.

OP here- In our case, don’t be the incredibly hard working quiet kid who never had a problem and scored a 4 on the AP exam with an A in the class.

Most of the recs I am writing now are for kids like the one you describe. If this your child, he/she should have no problems finding enough teachers to write recs, and the one teacher who declined won’t matter then.

[Anonymous]

So you want teachers to write letters for kids they don’t recommend? It’s a recommendation, it’s not just a signature on a form. Do you recommend mediocre companies just because they exist or do you recommend the best?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here my concern is that kids find out whether they’ve been selected only after AP results are out.

It’s devastating to the kid who scored a 4 on the AP exam and earned semester As to find out MIDSUMMER that they didn’t make the cut in a group email. Most teachers close off their recommendations prior to the end of the school year. Would the teacher have recommended my kid if he/she had scored a 5 on the exam? If not, why do they wait until midsummer to tell child and what is the purpose of doing so? There is no feedback loop either. What if you have a quiet shy kid that doesn’t stand out.

I see there are a few teachers on the forum and I really do appreciate the time and effort that each teacher puts into recommendations. It feels incredibly unkind to hold onto these requests and let students know midsummer. If you had no intention of recommending my student, please let them know immediately so they can pivot and find someone else.

I’m one of the teachers who has posted several times already on this thread. I do NOT base my willingness to write a rec on the AP score. No other teacher on this thread has said they do that, either. In fact, I don’t know any teacher who does this. That is very unusual of this teacher. Part of a Common App rec is the letter itself, it there are also tick box lists of attributes in which we must rank the student, relating to things like reaction to setbacks, faculty respect, self confidence, and a bunch of other things. It isn’t supposed to be just for the AP 5s; the whole rec is meant to give a picture of the student’s journey. I don’t know if I would even want a rec from this teacher.

But even so, your child has time to ask another teacher at the start of the school year. He/she can even—politely, not criticizing or blaming!—mention what happened with the other teacher and the AP cutoff situation, which was not known until July. This should be done the first week of school, and in person, not email (can email brag sheet later, after teacher agrees). All is not lost, and this may turn out better in the end.

OP here. Thank you! Fortunately my child asked for two other recommenders so he/she will be good to go though not ideal since the recommenders are all in area of strength. I know one teacher sent me a glowing thank you note after a Christmas gift about my child once so I think that one will be good. Fortunately my kid is applying to top 30-100 schools not 1-30 which many I’ve been told require recommenders from both humanities/math.

My child had another teacher who she/he really liked in his/her weak area (and also scored a 4 on that exam). He/she could probably ask that one but my kid is doesn’t want to ask. Feeling a little dejected at the moment.

Also is almost done with college apps too and wants to submit early. PP you sound like a nice teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So you want teachers to write letters for kids they don’t recommend? It’s a recommendation, it’s not just a signature on a form. Do you recommend mediocre companies just because they exist or do you recommend the best?

This is exactly what they want, and you’d best believe they are sending strongly worded emails to “correct” teachers who do not comply, and complaining to principals. Ask me how I know.

This is the root cause of all negative letters of rec that are submitted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how are B+ or even average students to obtain recommendations? You can ask the students to prepare a list of accomplishments, and I’m sure you have a template for recommendations. Ridiculous to try to put forward the notion that you are drafting each recommendation from scratch. Do your job.

I am writing recs for a few C students who scored 2 on the AP exam for my class. They worked hard, improved a lot from where they began, were polite and diligent in class, didn’t cheat, cut corners, or coast. I am happy to do this. It isn’t just the A students for me. But again, I can’t write 100+ recs each year, and using a template to try and do so would be harmful to all. Even our guidance counselors understand and support this.

Basically, don't be the average quiet girl. Stand out with good grades or lower grades but the appearance of hard work. The ones who work hard, but don't make a show of it, and get Bs end up SOL.

This is really insulting to me and to my colleagues. You think we can’t see or recognize who is working hard?

I think some kids just fly under the radar. With 30+ kids in a class, some kids don't get noticed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how are B+ or even average students to obtain recommendations? You can ask the students to prepare a list of accomplishments, and I’m sure you have a template for recommendations. Ridiculous to try to put forward the notion that you are drafting each recommendation from scratch. Do your job.

I am writing recs for a few C students who scored 2 on the AP exam for my class. They worked hard, improved a lot from where they began, were polite and diligent in class, didn’t cheat, cut corners, or coast. I am happy to do this. It isn’t just the A students for me. But again, I can’t write 100+ recs each year, and using a template to try and do so would be harmful to all. Even our guidance counselors understand and support this.

Basically, don't be the average quiet girl. Stand out with good grades or lower grades but the appearance of hard work. The ones who work hard, but don't make a show of it, and get Bs end up SOL.

This is really insulting to me and to my colleagues. You think we can’t see or recognize who is working hard?

I think some kids just fly under the radar. With 30+ kids in a class, some kids don't get noticed

You can think what you want, but I work incredibly hard and I know all of my students. Even if they are quiet in class, you would be surprised at how well you can get to know someone’s learning style and approach to work when you read and write feedback on their timed writing compositions every other week.

I’m sorry you feel that your child’s teachers are incompetent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how are B+ or even average students to obtain recommendations? You can ask the students to prepare a list of accomplishments, and I’m sure you have a template for recommendations. Ridiculous to try to put forward the notion that you are drafting each recommendation from scratch. Do your job.

I DO draft each rec from scratch. They are very clear that this is what is needed: detailed, show that you know the student, not cut-and-paste. A neutral or cut-and-paste letter of rec is not useful at best, damning at worst. You really don’t know how this works.

Teachers should be obliged to write recommendations for even mediocre or poor students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how are B+ or even average students to obtain recommendations? You can ask the students to prepare a list of accomplishments, and I’m sure you have a template for recommendations. Ridiculous to try to put forward the notion that you are drafting each recommendation from scratch. Do your job.

I am writing recs for a few C students who scored 2 on the AP exam for my class. They worked hard, improved a lot from where they began, were polite and diligent in class, didn’t cheat, cut corners, or coast. I am happy to do this. It isn’t just the A students for me. But again, I can’t write 100+ recs each year, and using a template to try and do so would be harmful to all. Even our guidance counselors understand and support this.

Basically, don't be the average quiet girl. Stand out with good grades or lower grades but the appearance of hard work. The ones who work hard, but don't make a show of it, and get Bs end up SOL.

This is really insulting to me and to my colleagues. You think we can’t see or recognize who is working hard?

I think some kids just fly under the radar. With 30+ kids in a class, some kids don't get noticed

You can think what you want, but I work incredibly hard and I know all of my students. Even if they are quiet in class, you would be surprised at how well you can get to know someone’s learning style and approach to work when you read and write feedback on their timed writing compositions every other week.

I’m sorry you feel that your child’s teachers are incompetent.

If a teacher has 140+ students in a semester, some will barley get noticed. If you know something substantive about all of your students, then you're an awesome teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how are B+ or even average students to obtain recommendations? You can ask the students to prepare a list of accomplishments, and I’m sure you have a template for recommendations. Ridiculous to try to put forward the notion that you are drafting each recommendation from scratch. Do your job.

I DO draft each rec from scratch. They are very clear that this is what is needed: detailed, show that you know the student, not cut-and-paste. A neutral or cut-and-paste letter of rec is not useful at best, damning at worst. You really don’t know how this works.

Teachers should be obliged to write recommendations for even mediocre or poor students.

lol. That’s cute.

No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here my concern is that kids find out whether they’ve been selected only after AP results are out.

It’s devastating to the kid who scored a 4 on the AP exam and earned semester As to find out MIDSUMMER that they didn’t make the cut in a group email. Most teachers close off their recommendations prior to the end of the school year. Would the teacher have recommended my kid if he/she had scored a 5 on the exam? If not, why do they wait until midsummer to tell child and what is the purpose of doing so? There is no feedback loop either. What if you have a quiet shy kid that doesn’t stand out.

I see there are a few teachers on the forum and I really do appreciate the time and effort that each teacher puts into recommendations. It feels incredibly unkind to hold onto these requests and let students know midsummer. If you had no intention of recommending my student, please let them know immediately so they can pivot and find someone else.

If your kid hasn't heard as they near the end of the school year why aren't they already asking someone else? This is pretty basic planning when you've asked for something but the other person hasn't said yes yet.

She lets everyone know midsummer and my child did ask 2 other teachers who said yes but were in the area of strength. Many kids are either math/ science or English/humanities. My child has one area covered but not the other.

So your kid is fine? I don't get starting a thread to be angry that a teacher has standards your kid didn't meet under any circumstances. Doing it when the impact is some tiny thing like not having exactly the balance of letters of recommendation they want makes you seem like a total crank.