Transfer schools for Creative writing and History

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She did none of her homework about the location or academic departments before enrolling at Kenyon. Now she’s outsourcing her transfer search to mom, who is outsourcing it to internet anons.

I predict this will not go well.

Better off staying at Kenyon.

Not if OP’s DD is miserable there. What about Oberlin? Denison? Miami U? I agree with the other suggestions in neighboring states, Macalester, Carlton, and of course U Chicago, which also has an excellent English department and CW program. I’m curious about your DD’s displeasure with Kenyon, other than its location. English and Creative Writing are the College’s “crown jewels” and I’ve only heard great things about their humanities programs and social science programs. Best of luck to your DD and kudos to her having the courage to change course.

There's a really small amount of space for her major in Creative Writing, and she's actually struggled a bit to get the pre-req classes, which really was a surprise to me. You used to need to apply, but now it is based off course registration time. She also feels there's not much overall support for the humanities (this likely won't change no matter where she goes), but she's looking for a place that has more talks and outside academics coming in and lecturing. And the overenrollment has really gotten to her, and apparently living conditions are terrible.

New poster. Re: the bold above: My DD visited Kenyon and Oberlin with an eye on their creative writing programs and was told point-blank at Oberlin that it can be very difficult to get into not just the pre-req classes but the major classes as well; the profs want things small, small, small and selective. So I'm not super surprised if Kenyon is like that too. I would advise looking at Oberlin, as things might have changed and my information is based on one comment by one admissions officer several years ago; it's in a small town but nowhere near as small as Gambier.

I also second Emory as a place she might want to visit. Also: I know this next one is not a LAC, but was she aware that Johns Hopkins has a strong and well-regarded creative writing program? (JHU is not all pre-meds, no matter what DCUM thinks. And it's in a city and East Coast. Baltimore-bashers will cry about crime but if your DD were in Boston there'd be crime there too.) If Philly is of interest, I don't know if there is a creative writing undergrad program at Temple, but there is a creative writing MFA so possibly it has an undergrad program as well. Again, a larger place than she wants, but she needs to realize that her desired major and her desired location/size/setting are not necessarily going to dovetail perfectly.

Your DD could have been mine circa 2018, with the interest in LACs, writing and not being super isolated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:CORRECTION: "Claremont Claremont College" should be "Claremont McKenna College".

Claremont Mckenna has a great history program, much better than most liberal arts colleges. It's very popular to double major econ and history there. I'm interested in where you got this opinion as history, econ, and government are tightly wound subjects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure why posters are suggesting massive colleges if that's your daughters list, not every LAC is the same. Wellesley (not 5 minutes out of boston but about the same time as Bryn Mawr to Philly), Wake Forest, St Johns potentially, Kalamazoo, Davidson, Williamette University, and Claremont Mckenna/Scripps are the best fits from the top of the head.

The above post seems way off base. Claremont College College is a great school, but not a place for one interested in history and/or creative writing.

Scripps just doesn't fit with the desire to study history & creative writing. Some students complain about the social environment at this all female school.

No to Willamette.

St. John's Colleges (Santa Fe & Annapolis locations) is also an odd recommendation for OP's daughter. Would have to begin again as a freshman and study a fixed curriculum for all.

WFU for creative writing ? Not sure, but have never come across that connection in the past several decades.

Scripps is hardly a women's college. Sure, there are women only accepted to the college, but the courses are almost entirely mixed and the dining halls and other buildings tend to have men in them. When DD visited, she even saw a man leave a dorm!
Kalamazoo in Michigan ??????

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CORRECTION: "Claremont Claremont College" should be "Claremont McKenna College".

Claremont Mckenna has a great history program, much better than most liberal arts colleges. It's very popular to double major econ and history there. I'm interested in where you got this opinion as history, econ, and government are tightly wound subjects.

They could be if interwoven into a PP& E type major; however, this would not be the study of economics, it would be the study of the history of economics. Same with respect to government.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

No to Willamette.

WFU for creative writing ? Not sure, but have never come across that connection in the past several decades.

Kalamazoo in Michigan ??????

This post is ridiculous. No to Willamette with zero reasoning. It's not Harvard, but it has a great creative writing program and oregon isn't the worst place to go to college.

Wake Forest's history department is definitely more known than its creative writing, but scrolling through they have a sizable English faculty and creative writing minor.

Kalamazoo is in Michigan.

[Anonymous]

I do know that CMC is great for study of econ & government, but am surprised and suspicious of CMC's website claiming 16 history profs for a school of just 1,240 students. How many CMC students graduate each year with a degree in history ?

[Anonymous]

Interesting. Two people in my MFA creative writing class of 12 went to Kenyon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CORRECTION: "Claremont Claremont College" should be "Claremont McKenna College".

Claremont Mckenna has a great history program, much better than most liberal arts colleges. It's very popular to double major econ and history there. I'm interested in where you got this opinion as history, econ, and government are tightly wound subjects.

They could be if interwoven into a PP& E type major; however, this would not be the study of economics, it would be the study of the history of economics. Same with respect to government.

That did not answer how that makes History a poor major at Claremont Mckenna. History is one of the main focuses of the college, so what specifically gives you this judgement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No to Willamette.

WFU for creative writing ? Not sure, but have never come across that connection in the past several decades.

Kalamazoo in Michigan ??????

This post is ridiculous. No to Willamette with zero reasoning. It's not Harvard, but it has a great creative writing program and oregon isn't the worst place to go to college.

Wake Forest's history department is definitely more known than its creative writing, but scrolling through they have a sizable English faculty and creative writing minor.

Kalamazoo is in Michigan.

Yes, I know that Kalamazoo is in Michigan. I highlighted this as another poster wrote that Kalamazoo was in the South.

I am familiar with both WFU & with Kalamazoo and still think that it does not fit in with OP's parameters. Willamette--just a big NO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do know that CMC is great for study of econ & government, but am surprised and suspicious of CMC's website claiming 16 history profs for a school of just 1,240 students. How many CMC students graduate each year with a degree in history ?

From their factbook, it looks like 16 or so, which is pretty substantial when half the class is taken by econ. They likely need to provide more professors for the consortium and to beat the resources over at Pomona.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She did none of her homework about the location or academic departments before enrolling at Kenyon. Now she’s outsourcing her transfer search to mom, who is outsourcing it to internet anons.

I predict this will not go well.

Better off staying at Kenyon.

Not if OP’s DD is miserable there. What about Oberlin? Denison? Miami U? I agree with the other suggestions in neighboring states, Macalester, Carlton, and of course U Chicago, which also has an excellent English department and CW program. I’m curious about your DD’s displeasure with Kenyon, other than its location. English and Creative Writing are the College’s “crown jewels” and I’ve only heard great things about their humanities programs and social science programs. Best of luck to your DD and kudos to her having the courage to change course.

There's a really small amount of space for her major in Creative Writing, and she's actually struggled a bit to get the pre-req classes, which really was a surprise to me. You used to need to apply, but now it is based off course registration time. She also feels there's not much overall support for the humanities (this likely won't change no matter where she goes), but she's looking for a place that has more talks and outside academics coming in and lecturing. And the overenrollment has really gotten to her, and apparently living conditions are terrible.

I wouldn’t want to go to a small school in the middle of nowhere either, but aren’t freshmen going to have a hard time getting preferred classes anywhere? It’s the case at my child’s SLAC too.

She sounds unhappy, but it also sounds like she has so many complaints that it’s hard to offer solid suggestions—it sounds like she hates the size, the location, the dorms/food, the course offerings (at a school known for strength on that department), the peer group, and the “lack of support for the humanities.” That’s a lot.

Are you sure it’s not about something personal/traumatic? It would be easier to write a good transfer narrative if she had fewer reasons rather than a million.

Part of it is me trying (and failing) to translate a moody teen. Kenyon purposely keeps a small numbers and class size to intro creative writing to effectively cap the majors, so all the amazing classes you'd want, you cannot get unless you can pierce through this cap. Her list currently has Uchicago, Pomona, Reed, Tufts, Davidson, Haverford, Bryn Mawr, and Macalester, which is pretty reasonable and most would solve her complaints. There's a few articles about the creative writing resources (or lack-thereof) at Kenyon.

Are any of these schools really known for creative writing or is she dropping that? Iowa and Hopkins are both renown for their writing programs.

I also have a freshman and think there is some merit to the other posts suggesting maybe she is just having a tough time transitioning to college and she might be fine next year where she is. Or maybe a slac isn’t really what she wants. If she really is unhappy, I’d add some schools where transfer admission is likely which her current list lacks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No to Willamette.

WFU for creative writing ? Not sure, but have never come across that connection in the past several decades.

Kalamazoo in Michigan ??????

This post is ridiculous. No to Willamette with zero reasoning. It's not Harvard, but it has a great creative writing program and oregon isn't the worst place to go to college.

Wake Forest's history department is definitely more known than its creative writing, but scrolling through they have a sizable English faculty and creative writing minor.

Kalamazoo is in Michigan.

Yes, I know that Kalamazoo is in Michigan. I highlighted this as another poster wrote that Kalamazoo was in the South.

I am familiar with both WFU & with Kalamazoo and still think that it does not fit in with OP's parameters. Willamette--just a big NO.

Willamette University has just over 1,200 undergrads which is smaller than Kenyon College. Fewer than 5% major in history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She did none of her homework about the location or academic departments before enrolling at Kenyon. Now she’s outsourcing her transfer search to mom, who is outsourcing it to internet anons.

I predict this will not go well.

Better off staying at Kenyon.

Not if OP’s DD is miserable there. What about Oberlin? Denison? Miami U? I agree with the other suggestions in neighboring states, Macalester, Carlton, and of course U Chicago, which also has an excellent English department and CW program. I’m curious about your DD’s displeasure with Kenyon, other than its location. English and Creative Writing are the College’s “crown jewels” and I’ve only heard great things about their humanities programs and social science programs. Best of luck to your DD and kudos to her having the courage to change course.

There's a really small amount of space for her major in Creative Writing, and she's actually struggled a bit to get the pre-req classes, which really was a surprise to me. You used to need to apply, but now it is based off course registration time. She also feels there's not much overall support for the humanities (this likely won't change no matter where she goes), but she's looking for a place that has more talks and outside academics coming in and lecturing. And the overenrollment has really gotten to her, and apparently living conditions are terrible.

I wouldn’t want to go to a small school in the middle of nowhere either, but aren’t freshmen going to have a hard time getting preferred classes anywhere? It’s the case at my child’s SLAC too.

She sounds unhappy, but it also sounds like she has so many complaints that it’s hard to offer solid suggestions—it sounds like she hates the size, the location, the dorms/food, the course offerings (at a school known for strength on that department), the peer group, and the “lack of support for the humanities.” That’s a lot.

Are you sure it’s not about something personal/traumatic? It would be easier to write a good transfer narrative if she had fewer reasons rather than a million.

Part of it is me trying (and failing) to translate a moody teen. Kenyon purposely keeps a small numbers and class size to intro creative writing to effectively cap the majors, so all the amazing classes you'd want, you cannot get unless you can pierce through this cap. Her list currently has Uchicago, Pomona, Reed, Tufts, Davidson, Haverford, Bryn Mawr, and Macalester, which is pretty reasonable and most would solve her complaints. There's a few articles about the creative writing resources (or lack-thereof) at Kenyon.

Are any of these schools really known for creative writing or is she dropping that? Iowa and Hopkins are both renown for their writing programs.

I also have a freshman and think there is some merit to the other posts suggesting maybe she is just having a tough time transitioning to college and she might be fine next year where she is. Or maybe a slac isn’t really what she wants. If she really is unhappy, I’d add some schools where transfer admission is likely which her current list lacks.

Have none of us graduated from "solid" departments? I really don't think you need to be taught by Belle Boggs to get a great creative writing or history education. Hell, Toni Morrison started her teaching career at SUNY Albany, which most of this thread would scoff at; Bell at NC State, which is not renown for creative writing. All of the schools above have solid programs in either, and she will be fine not having gone to Columbia but choosing a school that fit her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do know that CMC is great for study of econ & government, but am surprised and suspicious of CMC's website claiming 16 history profs for a school of just 1,240 students. How many CMC students graduate each year with a degree in history ?

From their factbook, it looks like 16 or so, which is pretty substantial when half the class is taken by econ. They likely need to provide more professors for the consortium and to beat the resources over at Pomona.

A lot of LACs exaggerate faculty size by listing many who are inactive at that school. Most recent example is a small LAC in Maine which lost almost all of its econ dept unexpectedly. Go to the website and over a dozen econ profs are listed even though they were/are no longer teaching there.

CMC is an outstanding school & does not need to exaggerate. 16 history profs for a school of about 1,250 students is hard to believe. How many students graduate with a degree in history from CMC each year ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do know that CMC is great for study of econ & government, but am surprised and suspicious of CMC's website claiming 16 history profs for a school of just 1,240 students. How many CMC students graduate each year with a degree in history ?

From their factbook, it looks like 16 or so, which is pretty substantial when half the class is taken by econ. They likely need to provide more professors for the consortium and to beat the resources over at Pomona.

A lot of LACs exaggerate faculty size by listing many who are inactive at that school. Most recent example is a small LAC in Maine which lost almost all of its econ dept unexpectedly. Go to the website and over a dozen econ profs are listed even though they were/are no longer teaching there.

CMC is an outstanding school & does not need to exaggerate. 16 history profs for a school of about 1,250 students is hard to believe. How many students graduate with a degree in history from CMC each year ?

DC goes to CMC.

Losing almost all of your econ department isn't exaggerating, its tragic (also, is it Bates?). I've never heard of this. CMC updates their pages every semester, they really don't have massive faculty.

Of the 16 history professors, only two aren't teaching next semester-which is pretty typical for a few professors to be on their mandatory leave. Each year there are quite a few history majors, but not as large as say Econ. Maybe 15-20.