TJ admissions change from Merit to Essay impact to Asian American Students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges went away from merit (SAT) for a few years and now returning to it as a more accurate measure of what they want in a kid.

The top colleges found that the SAT score is a good predictor of a student's performance in their demanding curriculum. And at the end of the day, what is the point of admitting students into an environment that they are not ready for. How would that help in building their confidence and leadership when they are always in the bottom quarter and survival mode?

When they use quantitative/objective measures like SAT scores, they can still incorporate other factors to make informed decisions. A 1,550 from a 1,400 HS should be more impressive than a 1,590 from a 1,550 HS. Remember SAT was introduced to give an equal footing to students from less advantaged families who cannot afford extra activities.

TJ SAT scores are completely meaningless to colleges. They would only look at them if they are very low, below 1450, in which case they would likely deny entry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
How do innocent algebra 1 kids benefit when they're placed at the bottom, enduring four years of misery as they strive to catch up with peers in the upper two-thirds, who are two years ahead in math and science? While the upper two-thirds may enjoy the supposed benefits (whatever they are) of diversity introduced by the inclusion of the bottom third, why impose the burden on the bottom third by subjecting them to a rigorous TJ curriculum they would struggle with? It seems like Algebra 1 students are getting the short end of the stick with admissions change.

Not to mention, these students never make it to teams representing TJ in STEM competitions. If they want to make TJ more like NOVA's demographics, why don't they have more diverse teams for those competitions?

Because they can't, even if they wanted to. Those STEM competitions you're referring to are beyond 100% merit. They wouldn't exist in any other form.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't you consider excellent essay writing skills meritorious?

1. It's subjective.
2. Selecting math and science students on essay writing ability is like picking a basketball team based on their batting average.

The essay is supposed to show math or science reasoning. That makes it an even better test than a math test.

Have you seen these questions? They are not math and science related except for one.

Yes, there are POG questions and a math/science question. Probably they should add a couple more math/science questions but the test is already two hours and many students run out of time.

It may look easy, and fluffy and meaningless, but it's not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That was the design. TJ needs the diversity. Inclusive programs will help every student at the school.

Anonymous wrote:Merit Test based Admissions:
Class of 2019, Asian American students received 70.20%
Class of 2020, Asian American students received 71.34%
Class of 2021, Asian American students received 74.90%
Class of 2023, Asian American students received 72.87%
Class of 2024, Asian American students received 73.05%

Admissions changed to Essay based, and increased enrollment of 8th grade algebra1 students:
Class of 2025, Asian American students received 54.36%
Class of 2026, Asian American students received 59.82%
Class of 2027, Asian American students received 61.64%.
Class of 2028, Asian American students received 57.27%

https://www.fcps.edu/news/offers-extended-thomas-jefferson-high-school-science-and-technology-class-2028

How do innocent algebra 1 kids benefit when they're placed at the bottom, enduring four years of misery as they strive to catch up with peers in the upper two-thirds, who are two years ahead in math and science? While the upper two-thirds may enjoy the supposed benefits (whatever they are) of diversity introduced by the inclusion of the bottom third, why impose the burden on the bottom third by subjecting them to a rigorous TJ curriculum they would struggle with? It seems like Algebra 1 students are getting the short end of the stick with admissions change.

Serious answer: the rigorous curriculum at TJ is designed for calculus, whether it is taken as a senior, or a junior, or earlier. The students who took Algebra 1 in 8th grade are not behind and do not need to catch up to anyone. They are right on target for the TJ curriculum. Will they take multivar? Probably not, but it isn't needed for most/all of the senior research projects or for other classes. Calculus is required, and they will take it.

They're fine.

Not fine. They're lagging behind, nearly two years behind students entering with Algebra 2, and even those with geometry who quickly advance to Calc BC by sophomore year. You seem unaware of the stress and anguish being behind typically places on a student who, at best, reaches Calc AB by senior year, while their peers, with whom they play soccer or lacrosse, are all academically two years ahead.

And.. is that also not similar (though to a lesser degree) at most schools in this area? College rat race stress is unavoidable. That is why it's more important than ever to not focus on it, especially at TJ. TJ can range from a horribly unhealthy to an amazing experience based on what a students pursues and values as an individual; and not in comparison to others to derive their self worth. Teach them that, and they will become a happier, nicer, individual who will surely find many things they love and excel at TJ. But at the same time don't discount others who are differently wired, live and breath math and science, and love academics to the exclusion of almost everything else. Both can happily coexist because there are a million number of learning opportunities, that's what makes the school special.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
How do innocent algebra 1 kids benefit when they're placed at the bottom, enduring four years of misery as they strive to catch up with peers in the upper two-thirds, who are two years ahead in math and science? While the upper two-thirds may enjoy the supposed benefits (whatever they are) of diversity introduced by the inclusion of the bottom third, why impose the burden on the bottom third by subjecting them to a rigorous TJ curriculum they would struggle with? It seems like Algebra 1 students are getting the short end of the stick with admissions change.

Not to mention, these students never make it to teams representing TJ in STEM competitions. If they want to make TJ more like NOVA's demographics, why don't they have more diverse teams for those competitions?

Because they can't, even if they wanted to. Those STEM competitions you're referring to are beyond 100% merit. They wouldn't exist in any other form.

So, where is equity if TJ's top 25% is still dominated by the same demographics? It does seem to me that TJ should also change their courses and evaluations rather than just admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
How do innocent algebra 1 kids benefit when they're placed at the bottom, enduring four years of misery as they strive to catch up with peers in the upper two-thirds, who are two years ahead in math and science? While the upper two-thirds may enjoy the supposed benefits (whatever they are) of diversity introduced by the inclusion of the bottom third, why impose the burden on the bottom third by subjecting them to a rigorous TJ curriculum they would struggle with? It seems like Algebra 1 students are getting the short end of the stick with admissions change.

Not to mention, these students never make it to teams representing TJ in STEM competitions. If they want to make TJ more like NOVA's demographics, why don't they have more diverse teams for those competitions?

Because they can't, even if they wanted to. Those STEM competitions you're referring to are beyond 100% merit. They wouldn't exist in any other form.

So, where is equity if TJ's top 25% is still dominated by the same demographics? It does seem to me that TJ should also change their courses and evaluations rather than just admissions.

What point are you trying to make? Because whatever it is, it isn't coming across.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one, including Asians, want to go to a school that is 75% Asian.

You are incorrect. Now with increased algebra1 students being admitted, top half of TJ is 90% Asian. More the incentive for Asian students to apply, guaranteed to be in top half.

Not sure what is the point of this thread. The explanation is pretty simple. The results are extremely strongly correlated to the cultural value of academic achievement. If one takes a random sample of an academically successful student, it's almost always due to the high value of education placed at home from a young age.

If FCPS or our country wants to fix education, they'd have to convince parents to change their core cultural belief. Not going to happen anytime soon.

Convince parents? Different parents have varied interests. One parent helps their kid with learning math and science all through elementary and middle school, while another parent help their kid learn basketball and baseball all through elementary and middle school. So these parents' kids enters high school with distinct levels of preparation and skill sets. What should FCPS convince each of these parents to do differently? and why?

If each of these parents are not of different skin color, would FCPS diversity and equity politics even care?

[Anonymous]

I think a poster on this or another recent thread got it right when they noted that TJ is kept alive because the School Board has decided that it wants a more diverse group of students to enjoy the reputational benefit of having attended TJ. The challenge is that the reputational benefit will dissipate over time if the school can't maintain the same rigor and high standards as in the past. So it's a race against time to capitalize on TJ's past glories before they are truly a thing of the past.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think a poster on this or another recent thread got it right when they noted that TJ is kept alive because the School Board has decided that it wants a more diverse group of students to enjoy the reputational benefit of having attended TJ. The challenge is that the reputational benefit will dissipate over time if the school can't maintain the same rigor and high standards as in the past. So it's a race against time to capitalize on TJ's past glories before they are truly a thing of the past.

Confident that the Asian students in the top half will anyway uphold stellar academic records and win competitive stem awards for fcps news release publicity, the school board has figured out that the bottom half can be filled with algebra 1 students to get the predetermined diversity chart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one, including Asians, want to go to a school that is 75% Asian.

You are incorrect. Now with increased algebra1 students being admitted, top half of TJ is 90% Asian. More the incentive for Asian students to apply, guaranteed to be in top half.

Not sure what is the point of this thread. The explanation is pretty simple. The results are extremely strongly correlated to the cultural value of academic achievement. If one takes a random sample of an academically successful student, it's almost always due to the high value of education placed at home from a young age.

If FCPS or our country wants to fix education, they'd have to convince parents to change their core cultural belief. Not going to happen anytime soon.

Convince parents? Different parents have varied interests. One parent helps their kid with learning math and science all through elementary and middle school, while another parent help their kid learn basketball and baseball all through elementary and middle school. So these parents' kids enters high school with distinct levels of preparation and skill sets. What should FCPS convince each of these parents to do differently? and why?

If each of these parents are not of different skin color, would FCPS diversity and equity politics even care?

They should convince all parents that academics are the most important pursuit. If they did that, the TJ demographics would be more homogeneous. Obviously that won't happen for the reasons you suggest, but it's mainly due to cultural beliefs. So this culture war will never really be fixed because families will prioritize whatever is most important to them, making this thread pointless. Asians will typically always hold education to extreme levels of importance, while Whites here in the US will typically always hold sports to extreme levels of importance. Because they are mutually exclusive pursuits in terms of time spent, they'll have to be prioritized according to culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a poster on this or another recent thread got it right when they noted that TJ is kept alive because the School Board has decided that it wants a more diverse group of students to enjoy the reputational benefit of having attended TJ. The challenge is that the reputational benefit will dissipate over time if the school can't maintain the same rigor and high standards as in the past. So it's a race against time to capitalize on TJ's past glories before they are truly a thing of the past.

Confident that the Asian students in the top half will anyway uphold stellar academic records and win competitive stem awards for fcps news release publicity, the school board has figured out that the bottom half can be filled with algebra 1 students to get the predetermined diversity chart.

you parents are such losers honestly, if only you have the guts to say that infront of those child's faces

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think a poster on this or another recent thread got it right when they noted that TJ is kept alive because the School Board has decided that it wants a more diverse group of students to enjoy the reputational benefit of having attended TJ. The challenge is that the reputational benefit will dissipate over time if the school can't maintain the same rigor and high standards as in the past. So it's a race against time to capitalize on TJ's past glories before they are truly a thing of the past.

don't you have bigger things to worry about like your upcoming golf trip? or are yall gonna sit here lambasting students of color

[Anonymous]

People act as though MIT didn't also change their admissions policies over the years. They had a tons of suicides and lawsuits over them. They made a concerted effort to not take lopsided kids with no life. Didn't impact their rankings at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People act as though MIT didn't also change their admissions policies over the years. They had a tons of suicides and lawsuits over them. They made a concerted effort to not take lopsided kids with no life. Didn't impact their rankings at all.

kids work hard and excel is never a problem. If your kid needs to give up on life to finish geo in 8th grade, it's your issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People act as though MIT didn't also change their admissions policies over the years. They had a tons of suicides and lawsuits over them. They made a concerted effort to not take lopsided kids with no life. Didn't impact their rankings at all.

My memory is they shut down frats because a student died from drinking too much.