Can we just drop the term “gunner“

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gunner, striver and try hard have different meanings and words are used to describe people, places and things.

Not everything is positive.

not sure. we banned that one around here awhile back when a few folks perceived it was a proxy for a certain group of people, when I took it to mean "one who strives" (which is a good thing). But go figure.

When was it banned? Last Friday?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid uses it to describe a particular type of kid at his school who he has pegged as ambitious, likely under parent pressure, and generally likely to be solely goal oriented rather than intrinsically interested in the subject matter. It's off-putting to him because it is someone who isn't going to want to joke around and be silly at times, and won't care to engage in something that won't get noticed for college. It's definitely a real type so I don't see a reason to pretend it doesn't exist. Whether he or anyone on this board is accurately categorizing any particular individual is, of course, up for debate.

I agree with OP. My child, who was now in college, was denigrated this way both behind her back and to her face. And the sniping was entirely unfair IMHO. My child was entirely passionate about what they did. I'm sure if they weren't so successful their efforts would not have been denigrated this way.

The good news is we found out who are friends are and aren't. Child is in college and truly thriving, having finally found a supportive environment free of the nasty backbiting. I unsubscribed to the high school parent emails and plan to never have anything to do with that community ever again.

A "sniper" is a "gunner" too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, call them tiger cub strivers instead. The word isn't the problem, it's the bigotry.

Who is the bigotry against?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, is it the term in particular (i.e., the word "gun") that is the problem or do you prefer there not be a word for this type of person, or that the word somehow have no negative connotation?

OP - honestly i didn't even think about the gun thing, it just seems like a lousy word that everyone uses differently and basically applied to kids working really really hard. I"ve probably used it myself, then felt kind of icky about it. The prior question "would my non-gunner do okay at an Ivy" generated quite a few replies, but what is this saying? Kids without hooks have to work really really hard to get into the most competitive schools. They're the ones doing the extra projects, participating actively in class etc. Are they all gunners? Or only if they are perceived by someone as annoying? The whole premise of adults referring to teens/college students this way given the pressure many of them are under - whether from self, school, peer group or parents - is just really gross.

Adults that use the word "icky" is gross. Please stop using the term "icky" after the age of 10.

Adult that use the word "gross" are infantile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ah yes, gunner: the striver’s more capable but also more obnoxious older brother.

Personally I enjoy English words with that level of embedded precision and nuance as to definition. It’s borderline German.

German would be something like asspolestuckscholar

[Anonymous]

If not the term gunner, how would you describe someone with their characteristics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gunner, striver and try hard have different meanings and words are used to describe people, places and things.

Not everything is positive.

not sure. we banned that one around here awhile back when a few folks perceived it was a proxy for a certain group of people, when I took it to mean "one who strives" (which is a good thing). But go figure.

Nobody banned striver. It’s been used incorrectly but it’s not banned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, call them tiger cub strivers instead. The word isn't the problem, it's the bigotry.

Who is the bigotry against?

A tiger mom is someone who is strict and pushes their child. An Asian woman went viral calling herself a tiger mom.

Then people started using it for all Asian moms, but in reality it has nothing to do with being Asian

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, call them tiger cub strivers instead. The word isn't the problem, it's the bigotry.

the perceived bigotry - and thanks for your post because that's exactly what I was talking about!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gunner, striver and try hard have different meanings and words are used to describe people, places and things.

Not everything is positive.

not sure. we banned that one around here awhile back when a few folks perceived it was a proxy for a certain group of people, when I took it to mean "one who strives" (which is a good thing). But go figure.

Nobody banned striver. It’s been used incorrectly but it’s not banned.[/quote]

True. I stand corrected. But due to complaints, such as this one about the term "gunner," it's no longer used here (have you noticed?) because of all the complaints from people who perceived it to be an insult when I it was 100% descriptive of a certain type of student (and their parents') behaviors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, call them tiger cub strivers instead. The word isn't the problem, it's the bigotry.

Who is the bigotry against?

A tiger mom is someone who is strict and pushes their child. An Asian woman went viral calling herself a tiger mom.

Then people started using it for all Asian moms, but in reality it has nothing to do with being Asian

But it has everything to do with parents who act like "tiger moms." And Amy Chua, who coined the term, and was proud to call herself a tiger mom as if it was a badge of honor. There are people of all ethnicities who think like her. I guess this one is banned too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gunner, striver and try hard have different meanings and words are used to describe people, places and things.

Not everything is positive.

not sure. we banned that one around here awhile back when a few folks perceived it was a proxy for a certain group of people, when I took it to mean "one who strives" (which is a good thing). But go figure.

When was it banned? Last Friday?

It was deemed offensive by some many months ago. Maybe "dropped" is a better term than "banned."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, call them tiger cub strivers instead. The word isn't the problem, it's the bigotry.

Who is the bigotry against?

A tiger mom is someone who is strict and pushes their child. An Asian woman went viral calling herself a tiger mom.

Then people started using it for all Asian moms, but in reality it has nothing to do with being Asian

But it has everything to do with parents who act like "tiger moms." And Amy Chua, who coined the term, and was proud to call herself a tiger mom as if it was a badge of honor. There are people of all ethnicities who think like her. I guess this one is banned too?

She did not coin the term. The term existed way before she was even born. She used it to promote herself. She didn’t think it was negative.

None of the words we are talking about our banned. Jeff does bad words, but none of those are banned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, call them tiger cub strivers instead. The word isn't the problem, it's the bigotry.

Who is the bigotry against?

A tiger mom is someone who is strict and pushes their child. An Asian woman went viral calling herself a tiger mom.

Then people started using it for all Asian moms, but in reality it has nothing to do with being Asian

But it has everything to do with parents who act like "tiger moms." And Amy Chua, who coined the term, and was proud to call herself a tiger mom as if it was a badge of honor. There are people of all ethnicities who think like her. I guess this one is banned too?

She did not coin the term. The term existed way before she was even born. She used it to promote herself. She didn’t think it was negative.

None of the words we are talking about our banned. Jeff does bad words, but none of those are banned.

Great. So gunner, gunner, gunner. Hey, we're not talking about shooting real bullets folks, but just very, very competitive students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with OP. It's clearly a pejorative term. Just because kids use terms like "gunner" and "try-hard" to put down other kids who are obviously ambitious doesn't mean the adults have to follow suit.

These things aren't interchangeable though.

Simple ambition and hard work are totally fine. It's backstabbing, cutthroat, zero-sum type behavior that elevates one to "gunner" status.

It would be better just to avoid the term. DCUM is full of people who jump to ascribe the latter behavior to other people's kids, especially when their ambition and hard work has been recognized and their kids have been denied admission to some school.

But aren't you now being just as unfair in asserting that other kids are just inferior and verbalizing their sour grapes? Isn't a more generous interpretation that other kids don't feel comfortable around the all-work-and-no-play vibe? It's hard to ask for people to curb insults while you're lobbing one of your own. There are hyper-motivated kids that often carry with them a toxicity that is off-putting to some, and asking whether a kid who doesn't fit that mold will fit in is a reasonable question. The DS of a friend was a non-gunner who went to a gunner-type school, and it wasn't a good fit. Vocabulary is useful. Are we not to talk about such things? And, if so, will you also not talk about these inferior jealous kids in a negative (icky, gross, etc.) way?

Where did I say that other kids are inferior or verbalizing sour grapes? I don't think you can seriously challenge the notion that DCUM attracts a lot of parents who are quick to look for ways to attack other people's kids. It typically reaches its peak during college admissions season. It's uncouth for adults to call teenagers "gunners" or "toxic" because you resent their motivation, ambition, or success. Try to be better and stop looking for excuses to justify your reverse snobbery.

Are you OP? The original post said "basically it’s just a sour grapes way to slam hard working 20-year-olds which seems kind of gross" so it was far from a logical leap on my part, and not exactly gracious on yours. Maybe be the change you want to see in the world.

Not OP, but agree with the suggestion. But keep defending your right to put down teenagers you deem too threatening.

You seem to prefer framing this as parents versus kids but it's not. My kid came home from an interest meeting in an extracurricular and said, "I don't know, mom. I'd like to participate but that meeting was a sea of gunners. Not sure . . . " Is my kid not allowed to talk about whether he wants to be in a toxic environment?

Your kid is testing you. He wants your concurrence that he’s too cool for school. Note how quickly you dropped the word “toxic” to refer to the other kids.

Go ahead and indulge him. It won’t make you any younger or him any more attractive to schools when he applies.

You know nothing about my kid, and yet you jumped to all sorts of negative conclusions about him. You know nothing about me but you jumped to all sorts of negative conclusions about me. Is it okay if I jump to the conclusion that your priority is grooming a kid to be attractive to schools? Or will that hurt your feelings? You can't spew venom, and then ask for people to treat you with kid gloves. The problem with your insults is that you have your facts wrong: I'm focused on raising a well-adjusted adult human being, not a college applicant. There are plenty of kids being raised to be college applicants, and many other kids choose not to spend time with those kids because they are unpleasant, and stressful to be around. Is there a word you would prefer for describing this type of kid, or is the whole subject banned? The phenomenon of mental health issues arising in these kids -- usually in college, or early adulthood -- is a real thing and worth discussing. The impact those kids have on the kids around them is a real thing and worth discussing. It's hard to have a discussion without a vocabulary. Gunner has a negative connotation because it is a personality type with negative aspects. I'm not describing a passionate-gifted-and-well-meaning type; I'm describing a gunner. Banning words or banning discussions because you think you or your kid should be exempt from criticism is best raised at the PTA where people have to be polite to you, not on DCUM.