Can we just drop the term “gunner“

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with OP. It's clearly a pejorative term. Just because kids use terms like "gunner" and "try-hard" to put down other kids who are obviously ambitious doesn't mean the adults have to follow suit.

These things aren't interchangeable though.

Simple ambition and hard work are totally fine. It's backstabbing, cutthroat, zero-sum type behavior that elevates one to "gunner" status.

It would be better just to avoid the term. DCUM is full of people who jump to ascribe the latter behavior to other people's kids, especially when their ambition and hard work has been recognized and their kids have been denied admission to some school.

But aren't you now being just as unfair in asserting that other kids are just inferior and verbalizing their sour grapes? Isn't a more generous interpretation that other kids don't feel comfortable around the all-work-and-no-play vibe? It's hard to ask for people to curb insults while you're lobbing one of your own. There are hyper-motivated kids that often carry with them a toxicity that is off-putting to some, and asking whether a kid who doesn't fit that mold will fit in is a reasonable question. The DS of a friend was a non-gunner who went to a gunner-type school, and it wasn't a good fit. Vocabulary is useful. Are we not to talk about such things? And, if so, will you also not talk about these inferior jealous kids in a negative (icky, gross, etc.) way?

Where did I say that other kids are inferior or verbalizing sour grapes? I don't think you can seriously challenge the notion that DCUM attracts a lot of parents who are quick to look for ways to attack other people's kids. It typically reaches its peak during college admissions season. It's uncouth for adults to call teenagers "gunners" or "toxic" because you resent their motivation, ambition, or success. Try to be better and stop looking for excuses to justify your reverse snobbery.

Are you OP? The original post said "basically it’s just a sour grapes way to slam hard working 20-year-olds which seems kind of gross" so it was far from a logical leap on my part, and not exactly gracious on yours. Maybe be the change you want to see in the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with OP. It's clearly a pejorative term. Just because kids use terms like "gunner" and "try-hard" to put down other kids who are obviously ambitious doesn't mean the adults have to follow suit.

These things aren't interchangeable though.

Simple ambition and hard work are totally fine. It's backstabbing, cutthroat, zero-sum type behavior that elevates one to "gunner" status.

It would be better just to avoid the term. DCUM is full of people who jump to ascribe the latter behavior to other people's kids, especially when their ambition and hard work has been recognized and their kids have been denied admission to some school.

But aren't you now being just as unfair in asserting that other kids are just inferior and verbalizing their sour grapes? Isn't a more generous interpretation that other kids don't feel comfortable around the all-work-and-no-play vibe? It's hard to ask for people to curb insults while you're lobbing one of your own. There are hyper-motivated kids that often carry with them a toxicity that is off-putting to some, and asking whether a kid who doesn't fit that mold will fit in is a reasonable question. The DS of a friend was a non-gunner who went to a gunner-type school, and it wasn't a good fit. Vocabulary is useful. Are we not to talk about such things? And, if so, will you also not talk about these inferior jealous kids in a negative (icky, gross, etc.) way?

Where did I say that other kids are inferior or verbalizing sour grapes? I don't think you can seriously challenge the notion that DCUM attracts a lot of parents who are quick to look for ways to attack other people's kids. It typically reaches its peak during college admissions season. It's uncouth for adults to call teenagers "gunners" or "toxic" because you resent their motivation, ambition, or success. Try to be better and stop looking for excuses to justify your reverse snobbery.

Are you OP? The original post said "basically it’s just a sour grapes way to slam hard working 20-year-olds which seems kind of gross" so it was far from a logical leap on my part, and not exactly gracious on yours. Maybe be the change you want to see in the world.

Not OP, but agree with the suggestion. But keep defending your right to put down teenagers you deem too threatening.

[Anonymous]

I'm not PP, but keep on defending being cutthroat or otherwise actively undermining your classmates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who is using that and where? I've only ever heard it as a name or as a job function in the military

And what does it even mean ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It gets used a lot, has no specific meaning, no parent of even the most impressive student is ever going to describe their kid that way, basically it’s just a sour grapes way to slam hard working 20-year-olds which seems kind of gross. I think we can do better.

You clearly didn’t go to law school where gunner has a very specific meaning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me, it is someone whose level of ambition and desire to compete is toxic. It’s NOT that they’re trying for good grades, have a passion for leaning, or working hard. Instead, there is an arrogant, cutthroat and exclusionary aspect about their need to compete and win. I recall a poster who attended Harvard and mentioned that a half-dozen students seriously said they planned to be President some day. Ron DeSantis supposedly claimed the same. Imagine him as a student peer. Consider his aggressive and alienating policies, all for his own glory. Now, multiple that many fold. Some people don’t want to be around people like that, thus they hope to find a college culture that embraces rigorous learning without the a**hole qualities of a gunner.

Ronny D was in my small section at HLS. Whatever else you can say about him, I can personally attest he was not a gunner.

So interesting! Tell us more!

It’s pretty anticlimactic. Seemed like a good guy, quiet in class, hung out with the athletic guys and was just one of the fellas. Sorry, it isn’t that interesting IRL. We weren’t friends but I have nothing bad to say and he definitely wasn’t the gunner type at all.

Interesting. Thanks! I always perceived him as a little uncomfortable with the role he now plays. Maybe that is correct.

[Anonymous]

In corporate land it’s mildly but not overly pejorative. For example, I am gunning for a promotion right now. Am I doing my best to be more visible in meetings, volunteer for high-profile projects, softly network with decision makers? Yes, yes I am. I am not stepping on any toes or putting anyone down. But will I be more chill once I get my promotion? Yes, yes I will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with OP. It's clearly a pejorative term. Just because kids use terms like "gunner" and "try-hard" to put down other kids who are obviously ambitious doesn't mean the adults have to follow suit.

These things aren't interchangeable though.

Simple ambition and hard work are totally fine. It's backstabbing, cutthroat, zero-sum type behavior that elevates one to "gunner" status.

It would be better just to avoid the term. DCUM is full of people who jump to ascribe the latter behavior to other people's kids, especially when their ambition and hard work has been recognized and their kids have been denied admission to some school.

But aren't you now being just as unfair in asserting that other kids are just inferior and verbalizing their sour grapes? Isn't a more generous interpretation that other kids don't feel comfortable around the all-work-and-no-play vibe? It's hard to ask for people to curb insults while you're lobbing one of your own. There are hyper-motivated kids that often carry with them a toxicity that is off-putting to some, and asking whether a kid who doesn't fit that mold will fit in is a reasonable question. The DS of a friend was a non-gunner who went to a gunner-type school, and it wasn't a good fit. Vocabulary is useful. Are we not to talk about such things? And, if so, will you also not talk about these inferior jealous kids in a negative (icky, gross, etc.) way?

Where did I say that other kids are inferior or verbalizing sour grapes? I don't think you can seriously challenge the notion that DCUM attracts a lot of parents who are quick to look for ways to attack other people's kids. It typically reaches its peak during college admissions season. It's uncouth for adults to call teenagers "gunners" or "toxic" because you resent their motivation, ambition, or success. Try to be better and stop looking for excuses to justify your reverse snobbery.

Are you OP? The original post said "basically it’s just a sour grapes way to slam hard working 20-year-olds which seems kind of gross" so it was far from a logical leap on my part, and not exactly gracious on yours. Maybe be the change you want to see in the world.

Not OP, but agree with the suggestion. But keep defending your right to put down teenagers you deem too threatening.

Hate to tell you but this type of teenager and adult really exists. There are kids and adults who have plenty of achievements without being this person, but it doesn't mean the type doesn't exist and it doesn't mean that the people who don't want to be around them are just hating on them because they're beautiful. If you think everyone who doesn't like you or your kid is just jealous, you are kidding yourself. And purging the vocabulary you don't like won't fix that.

[Anonymous]

Gunner, striver, ambitious -- call it what you will, but it's a thing. It's the opposite of "slacker," which could also be.construed as a derogatory term. IMO, the terms can be useful to differentiate between different types of students.

Some are motivated by achieving top grades and participating in activities that boost their applications, while others are not. Sometimes they achieve the same standardized test scores, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with OP. It's clearly a pejorative term. Just because kids use terms like "gunner" and "try-hard" to put down other kids who are obviously ambitious doesn't mean the adults have to follow suit.

These things aren't interchangeable though.

Simple ambition and hard work are totally fine. It's backstabbing, cutthroat, zero-sum type behavior that elevates one to "gunner" status.

It would be better just to avoid the term. DCUM is full of people who jump to ascribe the latter behavior to other people's kids, especially when their ambition and hard work has been recognized and their kids have been denied admission to some school.

But aren't you now being just as unfair in asserting that other kids are just inferior and verbalizing their sour grapes? Isn't a more generous interpretation that other kids don't feel comfortable around the all-work-and-no-play vibe? It's hard to ask for people to curb insults while you're lobbing one of your own. There are hyper-motivated kids that often carry with them a toxicity that is off-putting to some, and asking whether a kid who doesn't fit that mold will fit in is a reasonable question. The DS of a friend was a non-gunner who went to a gunner-type school, and it wasn't a good fit. Vocabulary is useful. Are we not to talk about such things? And, if so, will you also not talk about these inferior jealous kids in a negative (icky, gross, etc.) way?

Where did I say that other kids are inferior or verbalizing sour grapes? I don't think you can seriously challenge the notion that DCUM attracts a lot of parents who are quick to look for ways to attack other people's kids. It typically reaches its peak during college admissions season. It's uncouth for adults to call teenagers "gunners" or "toxic" because you resent their motivation, ambition, or success. Try to be better and stop looking for excuses to justify your reverse snobbery.

Are you OP? The original post said "basically it’s just a sour grapes way to slam hard working 20-year-olds which seems kind of gross" so it was far from a logical leap on my part, and not exactly gracious on yours. Maybe be the change you want to see in the world.

Not OP, but agree with the suggestion. But keep defending your right to put down teenagers you deem too threatening.

You seem to prefer framing this as parents versus kids but it's not. My kid came home from an interest meeting in an extracurricular and said, "I don't know, mom. I'd like to participate but that meeting was a sea of gunners. Not sure . . . " Is my kid not allowed to talk about whether he wants to be in a toxic environment?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with OP. It's clearly a pejorative term. Just because kids use terms like "gunner" and "try-hard" to put down other kids who are obviously ambitious doesn't mean the adults have to follow suit.

These things aren't interchangeable though.

Simple ambition and hard work are totally fine. It's backstabbing, cutthroat, zero-sum type behavior that elevates one to "gunner" status.

It would be better just to avoid the term. DCUM is full of people who jump to ascribe the latter behavior to other people's kids, especially when their ambition and hard work has been recognized and their kids have been denied admission to some school.

But aren't you now being just as unfair in asserting that other kids are just inferior and verbalizing their sour grapes? Isn't a more generous interpretation that other kids don't feel comfortable around the all-work-and-no-play vibe? It's hard to ask for people to curb insults while you're lobbing one of your own. There are hyper-motivated kids that often carry with them a toxicity that is off-putting to some, and asking whether a kid who doesn't fit that mold will fit in is a reasonable question. The DS of a friend was a non-gunner who went to a gunner-type school, and it wasn't a good fit. Vocabulary is useful. Are we not to talk about such things? And, if so, will you also not talk about these inferior jealous kids in a negative (icky, gross, etc.) way?

Where did I say that other kids are inferior or verbalizing sour grapes? I don't think you can seriously challenge the notion that DCUM attracts a lot of parents who are quick to look for ways to attack other people's kids. It typically reaches its peak during college admissions season. It's uncouth for adults to call teenagers "gunners" or "toxic" because you resent their motivation, ambition, or success. Try to be better and stop looking for excuses to justify your reverse snobbery.

Are you OP? The original post said "basically it’s just a sour grapes way to slam hard working 20-year-olds which seems kind of gross" so it was far from a logical leap on my part, and not exactly gracious on yours. Maybe be the change you want to see in the world.

Not OP, but agree with the suggestion. But keep defending your right to put down teenagers you deem too threatening.

You seem to prefer framing this as parents versus kids but it's not. My kid came home from an interest meeting in an extracurricular and said, "I don't know, mom. I'd like to participate but that meeting was a sea of gunners. Not sure . . . " Is my kid not allowed to talk about whether he wants to be in a toxic environment?

Your kid is testing you. He wants your concurrence that he’s too cool for school. Note how quickly you dropped the word “toxic” to refer to the other kids.

Go ahead and indulge him. It won’t make you any younger or him any more attractive to schools when he applies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Gunner, striver, ambitious -- call it what you will, but it's a thing. It's the opposite of "slacker," which could also be.construed as a derogatory term. IMO, the terms can be useful to differentiate between different types of students.

Some are motivated by achieving top grades and participating in activities that boost their applications, while others are not. Sometimes they achieve the same standardized test scores, though.

Beautiful. Some people think you can change the nature of human behavior by changing the labels, banning certain word etc. Like "unhoused" etc.
It's just a mine field out there, no matter what you say someone is going to be offended.

[Anonymous]

Gunner, striver and try hard have different meanings and words are used to describe people, places and things.

Not everything is positive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Gunner, striver and try hard have different meanings and words are used to describe people, places and things.

Not everything is positive.

not sure. we banned that one around here awhile back when a few folks perceived it was a proxy for a certain group of people, when I took it to mean "one who strives" (which is a good thing). But go figure.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, call them tiger cub strivers instead. The word isn't the problem, it's the bigotry.