MoCo Planning Board Meeting - Upzoning

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you. I will write to tell them that I support duplexes and small apartment buildings.

I support duplexes and small apartment buildings, but I don’t support razing existing SFHs to build them. Upzoning would make the shortage of SFHs even worse. There’s already so much wasted space in the county- ugly half empty strip malls, etc. that would be perfect for a new development. Start there.

The existing SFHs are ALREADY getting razed. It's just that they're getting replaced with McMansions instead of duplexes. I think it would be better to have duplexes.

Meanwhile, the "ugly half empty strip malls, etc." are ALREADY zoned for commercial/residential use, and some of the property owners are already building commercial/residential buildings on them. Other property owners aren't, presumably because the strip malls are more profitable, however ugly you may find them. Do you think the county should force the property owners to replace their strip malls with commercial/residential buildings?

Well I don't think they should force people who bought expensive homes in leafy SFH neighborhoods to have to deal with ugly duplexes, triplexes, quadplexes. Soo..I will side with the residential homeowner versus some gross strip mall

"Deal with" them how? They shouldn't have to look at them? They shouldn't have to live near them? They shouldn't have to have neighbors who live in them?

yes to all of the above

We all spent $2M + to get out of the DC density...I'd like to keep it that way. There are plenty of more suburban areas that are cheaper to develop.

Too bad so sad lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Say it with me: upzoning makes zero difference to housing prices. If only it were that easy...

Of course not. It's the quality of people that move in though that do.

Riff raff moves in, properties tank.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you. I will write to tell them that I support duplexes and small apartment buildings.

I support duplexes and small apartment buildings, but I don’t support razing existing SFHs to build them. Upzoning would make the shortage of SFHs even worse. There’s already so much wasted space in the county- ugly half empty strip malls, etc. that would be perfect for a new development. Start there.

The existing SFHs are ALREADY getting razed. It's just that they're getting replaced with McMansions instead of duplexes. I think it would be better to have duplexes.

Meanwhile, the "ugly half empty strip malls, etc." are ALREADY zoned for commercial/residential use, and some of the property owners are already building commercial/residential buildings on them. Other property owners aren't, presumably because the strip malls are more profitable, however ugly you may find them. Do you think the county should force the property owners to replace their strip malls with commercial/residential buildings?

Well I don't think they should force people who bought expensive homes in leafy SFH neighborhoods to have to deal with ugly duplexes, triplexes, quadplexes. Soo..I will side with the residential homeowner versus some gross strip mall

"Deal with" them how? They shouldn't have to look at them? They shouldn't have to live near them? They shouldn't have to have neighbors who live in them?

yes to all of the above

We all spent $2M + to get out of the DC density...I'd like to keep it that way. There are plenty of more suburban areas that are cheaper to develop.

Too bad so sad lol.

It is a little bit early in the game to be this smug, YIMBY.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you. I will write to tell them that I support duplexes and small apartment buildings.

I support duplexes and small apartment buildings, but I don’t support razing existing SFHs to build them. Upzoning would make the shortage of SFHs even worse. There’s already so much wasted space in the county- ugly half empty strip malls, etc. that would be perfect for a new development. Start there.

The existing SFHs are ALREADY getting razed. It's just that they're getting replaced with McMansions instead of duplexes. I think it would be better to have duplexes.

Meanwhile, the "ugly half empty strip malls, etc." are ALREADY zoned for commercial/residential use, and some of the property owners are already building commercial/residential buildings on them. Other property owners aren't, presumably because the strip malls are more profitable, however ugly you may find them. Do you think the county should force the property owners to replace their strip malls with commercial/residential buildings?

Well I don't think they should force people who bought expensive homes in leafy SFH neighborhoods to have to deal with ugly duplexes, triplexes, quadplexes. Soo..I will side with the residential homeowner versus some gross strip mall

"Deal with" them how? They shouldn't have to look at them? They shouldn't have to live near them? They shouldn't have to have neighbors who live in them?

yes to all of the above

We all spent $2M + to get out of the DC density...I'd like to keep it that way. There are plenty of more suburban areas that are cheaper to develop.

Too bad so sad lol.

It is a little bit early in the game to be this smug, YIMBY.

Just wait until it has no effect on housing prices ten years from now. This has been the YIMBYs’ major initiative. I wonder if any of them will admit they were wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Say it with me: upzoning makes zero difference to housing prices. If only it were that easy...

Of course upzoning, alone, does nothing.

Does this mean you’ll turn your full attention to helping market rate developers get more subsidies?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you. I will write to tell them that I support duplexes and small apartment buildings.

I support duplexes and small apartment buildings, but I don’t support razing existing SFHs to build them. Upzoning would make the shortage of SFHs even worse. There’s already so much wasted space in the county- ugly half empty strip malls, etc. that would be perfect for a new development. Start there.

The existing SFHs are ALREADY getting razed. It's just that they're getting replaced with McMansions instead of duplexes. I think it would be better to have duplexes.

Meanwhile, the "ugly half empty strip malls, etc." are ALREADY zoned for commercial/residential use, and some of the property owners are already building commercial/residential buildings on them. Other property owners aren't, presumably because the strip malls are more profitable, however ugly you may find them. Do you think the county should force the property owners to replace their strip malls with commercial/residential buildings?

Well I don't think they should force people who bought expensive homes in leafy SFH neighborhoods to have to deal with ugly duplexes, triplexes, quadplexes. Soo..I will side with the residential homeowner versus some gross strip mall

"Deal with" them how? They shouldn't have to look at them? They shouldn't have to live near them? They shouldn't have to have neighbors who live in them?

yes to all of the above

We all spent $2M + to get out of the DC density...I'd like to keep it that way. There are plenty of more suburban areas that are cheaper to develop.

Too bad so sad lol.

It is a little bit early in the game to be this smug, YIMBY.

DP. Perhaps you can take comfort in the other PP's assertion that upzoning does nothing anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I follow the planning board Facebook page for Montgomery County and today (thanks for the warning!) they posted that there is going to be a public comment period on THURSDAY MARCH 21st to talk about housing and missing middle zoning issues. They are discussing upzoning in MOCO.

You can’t complain about the new duplex or 4-6 unit apartment building next door to your house when it happens if you don’t let them know how you feel.

You can submit a written testimony through email to let them know your thoughts and feelings.

“item March 21 – Public Comment Item – Attainable Housing Strategies Public Listening Session. If submitting written testimony, include this same information (the date and title of the item) in your email.”

Contact the Planning Board

Email: [e-mail]

M-NCPPC Montgomery County Commissioners Office at [phone]


https://montgomeryplanning.org/planning/housing/attainable-housing-strategies-initiative/

https://montgomeryplanningboard.org/agenda-item/march-21-2024/

Thank you for sharing this. I had lost track of the whole *upzone* plan from the county.

I'll put my 2 cents in, but it won't matter. The county will ram this thing through because they are buddies with developer PACs and it hits all the virtue signaling buzz words that makes them all giddy inside. There won't be any push back because 90% of county residents have no idea that these upzoning plans exist.

I wish I had enough free time in my life to dress up in bee costumes, post all day on social media and network with super rich PAC under the pretense of equity, while making gobsmacks of money from designing these housing units that will eventually turn into slums because no one actually wants to live in a quadplex.

That is what stings about all of this. The developers will have their way, make their money and will be torching away on some beach somewhere 20 years from now while county residents will have to deal with the repercussions of the slums they created.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you. I will write to tell them that I support duplexes and small apartment buildings.

I support duplexes and small apartment buildings, but I don’t support razing existing SFHs to build them. Upzoning would make the shortage of SFHs even worse. There’s already so much wasted space in the county- ugly half empty strip malls, etc. that would be perfect for a new development. Start there.

The existing SFHs are ALREADY getting razed. It's just that they're getting replaced with McMansions instead of duplexes. I think it would be better to have duplexes.

Meanwhile, the "ugly half empty strip malls, etc." are ALREADY zoned for commercial/residential use, and some of the property owners are already building commercial/residential buildings on them. Other property owners aren't, presumably because the strip malls are more profitable, however ugly you may find them. Do you think the county should force the property owners to replace their strip malls with commercial/residential buildings?

Well I don't think they should force people who bought expensive homes in leafy SFH neighborhoods to have to deal with ugly duplexes, triplexes, quadplexes. Soo..I will side with the residential homeowner versus some gross strip mall

"Deal with" them how? They shouldn't have to look at them? They shouldn't have to live near them? They shouldn't have to have neighbors who live in them?

yes to all of the above

We all spent $2M + to get out of the DC density...I'd like to keep it that way. There are plenty of more suburban areas that are cheaper to develop.

You have the option to move.

So do lower income people who cannot afford to live in one of the most expensive areas in the entire country.

Why should we upend good neighborhoods so that poor people can afford to live in expensive areas? So much entitlement. Where in the Constitution does it say you have an inalienable right to live wherever you want?

The predictable happens where they create all of these multiplex housing units for n neighborhoods, quality of life decreases dramatically because now you have 25 cars parking all over for one single building, trash gets strewn everywhere because renters give zero Fs, schools inevitably go down as lower income students overwhelm the system, and crime goes up.

Then all of the wealthy people flee and the county's tax base implodes while they have simultaneously imported poverty who'll demand much more social services and require more intense govt spending. MoCo goes the way of Baltimore in terms of an imploding tax base and a jobs killing, tax raising govt that destroys everything good.

Lots to unpack here...
1. How do you define "good neighborhood"?
2. We agree! Nowhere in the Constitution does it say that anybody has a right to live in any particular place....including no rule that the place where people currently live can't change.
3. The hellscape you describe of trash-ridden streets is not born out by research or experience, and can absolutely be mitigated by policy choices.
4. There is no indication that wealthy people are fleeing MoCo at any significant rate. More people means more tax base, and more business and more jobs.
5. Providing housing and opportunity decreases poverty.

This view really really just boils down to not liking change.

On 4, there is plenty of evidence that MoCo no longer attracts or retains the super wealthy. Decades ago, Fairfax and MoCo has similar average incomes. Today, Fairfax far exceeds MoCo. Separately, more people, particularly those needing services, does not increase the tax base. At the Federal level, the bottom 50% pay roughly 3% of all income taxes, while top 50% pay roughly, and top 1% pay almost 40%. I suspect many new residents do not pay for themselves. Despite its absurdity, MoCo needs more rich people, not less. Rich are not likely to be costing MoCo much. MoCo seems to be more interested in attracting what might be called takers. And, of course, MoCo needs to take of its own, within reason.

[Anonymous]

This also will not apply to many people that live in HOA's or have neighborhood protective covenants. The county does not have the legal authority to override these previous contracts, which means that many of very affluent neighborhoods will be effectively exempt from the zoning changes. It screws over a lot of older middle class neighborhoods that don't have HOA's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This also will not apply to many people that live in HOA's or have neighborhood protective covenants. The county does not have the legal authority to override these previous contracts, which means that many of very affluent neighborhoods will be effectively exempt from the zoning changes. It screws over a lot of older middle class neighborhoods that don't have HOA's.

Is there a map of which do or dont, or do you know the names offhand?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This also will not apply to many people that live in HOA's or have neighborhood protective covenants. The county does not have the legal authority to override these previous contracts, which means that many of very affluent neighborhoods will be effectively exempt from the zoning changes. It screws over a lot of older middle class neighborhoods that don't have HOA's.

The end result being the more affordable SFH neighborhoods lose their character and become less attractive to those mc families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This also will not apply to many people that live in HOA's or have neighborhood protective covenants. The county does not have the legal authority to override these previous contracts, which means that many of very affluent neighborhoods will be effectively exempt from the zoning changes. It screws over a lot of older middle class neighborhoods that don't have HOA's.

Is there a map of which do or dont, or do you know the names offhand?

…and how would one start one?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This also will not apply to many people that live in HOA's or have neighborhood protective covenants. The county does not have the legal authority to override these previous contracts, which means that many of very affluent neighborhoods will be effectively exempt from the zoning changes. It screws over a lot of older middle class neighborhoods that don't have HOA's.

The end result being the more affordable SFH neighborhoods lose their character and become less attractive to those mc families.

????????????????

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This also will not apply to many people that live in HOA's or have neighborhood protective covenants. The county does not have the legal authority to override these previous contracts, which means that many of very affluent neighborhoods will be effectively exempt from the zoning changes. It screws over a lot of older middle class neighborhoods that don't have HOA's.

I wouldn't count on that.

https://www.whitefordlaw.com/news-events/new-maryland-law-forbids-prohibition-of-clotheslines-in-condominiums-homeowner-a

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This also will not apply to many people that live in HOA's or have neighborhood protective covenants. The county does not have the legal authority to override these previous contracts, which means that many of very affluent neighborhoods will be effectively exempt from the zoning changes. It screws over a lot of older middle class neighborhoods that don't have HOA's.

Is there a map of which do or dont, or do you know the names offhand?

There is no comprehensive map that I am aware of. It would be very time intensive to go through chain of ownership for the all of the properties in Montgomery County.