Anonymous wrote:We've had three people in our family convert. Two "converted too far" and wanted to make their spouses be more religious than they wanted to be, and those two ended in divorce.
The one who did not do that went to conversion classes (for a year? 18 months?) weekly, and is not kosher, but does light candles and have challah on Friday nights, and the older kid goes to Hebrew School once a week. They don't go to temple (right now it's not safe, but when it was they didn't go regularly either - maybe twice a year).
Where do they live where it's not safe to go to shul?
A major city in the country where the temple is under construction so all classes and services have been moved to, ironically, a nearby church, which doesn't have the same level of security as the temple's property.
So it's not too unsafe, but you feel unsafe.
It might indeed be unsafe, it’s hard to say for sure. My synagogue here in D.C. has full-time police protection, armed guards in addition to the police, and spent huge amounts of money after the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting to redo the entryway to install permanent security doors and metal detectors, and after Oct. 7, that’s basically the only door they let you use to enter. And they don’t have a sign or a flag or anything out front, either. Is all that necessary? I’d like to hope it’s not, but apparently someone thought it was, so a place without that could definitely be unsafe.
Do you have kids? So you send them to school? Schools aren't sad either.
I send my kids both to school and to Hebrew school (and I'm at the synagogue usually two or three times a week). I don't think the synagogue is unsafe, but it's also got a somewhat unfortunate amount of heavy protection, as I detailed above. I do think they're probably safer in their DCPS schools than we are in the synagogue, but again, I feel pretty safe in both locations.
My dcs go to public school but dd is a counselor at a Jewish school. I will say that I have safety concerns at both: public I feel is a higher risk bc there is less security and it is more open, but I feel the Jewish school is more of a target, so the higher level of security may not matter if someone has more motivation to attack. I basically do not feel good about either, but live with the risk. I absolutely understand people not feeling safe about going to synagogue too. People are allowed to feel fear and act however they feel comfortable. It's not a far-fetched feeling with no basis in reality given past events and current atmosphere.
To unite this chain of thought with OP's post about conversion: I was in a study group recently where the rabbi told us that the only real guide to conversion in the Talmud is that rabbis should ask three questions. Those questions are (1) will you keep Shabbat? (2) will you keep kosher? (3) you do understand that everyone else wants to kill us, right?
I wonder how Jews by choice grapple with the very real and justified need for this kind of security measure, and with the fact that it's not at all unreasonable to feel uncomfortable going to shul in a building that lacks them. It's a lot to try to take on! It's a lot for those of us who were born into Judaism, too, but we didn't really have a choice about it, and most of us weren't aware of the "everyone wants to kill us" part until years later.
Funny that for most modern Jews by birth, the answers are No, No, and Not Really But I Get What You Are Implying.
So, being Other is the true core tenet of the people who call themselves God’s Chosen People. One wonders why they have such bad PR…
Huh? Most religions have dietary restrictions and specific prayer schedules/customs. Not sure how that makes anyone "other" in a bad way, unless you yourself want to see it as such.
Name one with elaborate rules like Judaism.
Islam has elaborate rules about food and about prayer times that are similar enough to Judaism's that if you can't find a halal butcher, kosher meat is considered acceptable.
True, Islam has strict rules but kosher is more than about the slaughtering . It’s also about cross contamination with meat and dairy and need for kosher kitchens. As Muslims, we have the no alcohol rule but that’s much easier to avoid than meat and dairy . I can eat kosher but my Jewish friends can’t eat halal.
Jewish rules are more extensive for sure than Islamic rules . I debate about which is harder with my friends. Shabbat is every Saturday, Ramadan is hard but it’s not every Saturday .
I have so much respect for Jewish friends and the devotion it takes to truly keep Shabbat and Kosher alone especially in a Western country . The closest thing Muslims have that’s most difficult is praying five times daily and I know 50% -60% of Muslims do not or don’t even know what they’re saying in Arabic as they are praying
The Ethiopian church has mandatory fasting 180 days per year and over 250 for the extra devout! Muslims who follow Hadith follow never ending rules, even what shoe to put on first. Rules for washing up, which part first, and how many times, what to do without water. It is called a way of life for a reason. Hinduism is complex with many spiritual paths and practices.
Jewish rules are extremely detailed too.
The Ethiopian Church and Islam have a bedrock in ancient Judaism.
Ethiopians are the only Christian’s to mandate male circumcision, not allow pork or shellfish, and the men wear shawls over the head and pray/ sway back in forth in a way more similar to Jews than any Christians I’ve seen.
Anonymous wrote:We've had three people in our family convert. Two "converted too far" and wanted to make their spouses be more religious than they wanted to be, and those two ended in divorce.
The one who did not do that went to conversion classes (for a year? 18 months?) weekly, and is not kosher, but does light candles and have challah on Friday nights, and the older kid goes to Hebrew School once a week. They don't go to temple (right now it's not safe, but when it was they didn't go regularly either - maybe twice a year).
Where do they live where it's not safe to go to shul?
A major city in the country where the temple is under construction so all classes and services have been moved to, ironically, a nearby church, which doesn't have the same level of security as the temple's property.
So it's not too unsafe, but you feel unsafe.
It might indeed be unsafe, it’s hard to say for sure. My synagogue here in D.C. has full-time police protection, armed guards in addition to the police, and spent huge amounts of money after the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting to redo the entryway to install permanent security doors and metal detectors, and after Oct. 7, that’s basically the only door they let you use to enter. And they don’t have a sign or a flag or anything out front, either. Is all that necessary? I’d like to hope it’s not, but apparently someone thought it was, so a place without that could definitely be unsafe.
Do you have kids? So you send them to school? Schools aren't sad either.
I send my kids both to school and to Hebrew school (and I'm at the synagogue usually two or three times a week). I don't think the synagogue is unsafe, but it's also got a somewhat unfortunate amount of heavy protection, as I detailed above. I do think they're probably safer in their DCPS schools than we are in the synagogue, but again, I feel pretty safe in both locations.
My dcs go to public school but dd is a counselor at a Jewish school. I will say that I have safety concerns at both: public I feel is a higher risk bc there is less security and it is more open, but I feel the Jewish school is more of a target, so the higher level of security may not matter if someone has more motivation to attack. I basically do not feel good about either, but live with the risk. I absolutely understand people not feeling safe about going to synagogue too. People are allowed to feel fear and act however they feel comfortable. It's not a far-fetched feeling with no basis in reality given past events and current atmosphere.
To unite this chain of thought with OP's post about conversion: I was in a study group recently where the rabbi told us that the only real guide to conversion in the Talmud is that rabbis should ask three questions. Those questions are (1) will you keep Shabbat? (2) will you keep kosher? (3) you do understand that everyone else wants to kill us, right?
I wonder how Jews by choice grapple with the very real and justified need for this kind of security measure, and with the fact that it's not at all unreasonable to feel uncomfortable going to shul in a building that lacks them. It's a lot to try to take on! It's a lot for those of us who were born into Judaism, too, but we didn't really have a choice about it, and most of us weren't aware of the "everyone wants to kill us" part until years later.
Funny that for most modern Jews by birth, the answers are No, No, and Not Really But I Get What You Are Implying.
So, being Other is the true core tenet of the people who call themselves God’s Chosen People. One wonders why they have such bad PR…
Huh? Most religions have dietary restrictions and specific prayer schedules/customs. Not sure how that makes anyone "other" in a bad way, unless you yourself want to see it as such.
Name one with elaborate rules like Judaism.
Islam has elaborate rules about food and about prayer times that are similar enough to Judaism's that if you can't find a halal butcher, kosher meat is considered acceptable.
True, Islam has strict rules but kosher is more than about the slaughtering . It’s also about cross contamination with meat and dairy and need for kosher kitchens. As Muslims, we have the no alcohol rule but that’s much easier to avoid than meat and dairy . I can eat kosher but my Jewish friends can’t eat halal.
Jewish rules are more extensive for sure than Islamic rules . I debate about which is harder with my friends. Shabbat is every Saturday, Ramadan is hard but it’s not every Saturday .
I have so much respect for Jewish friends and the devotion it takes to truly keep Shabbat and Kosher alone especially in a Western country . The closest thing Muslims have that’s most difficult is praying five times daily and I know 50% -60% of Muslims do not or don’t even know what they’re saying in Arabic as they are praying
The Ethiopian church has mandatory fasting 180 days per year and over 250 for the extra devout! Muslims who follow Hadith follow never ending rules, even what shoe to put on first. Rules for washing up, which part first, and how many times, what to do without water. It is called a way of life for a reason. Hinduism is complex with many spiritual paths and practices.
Jewish rules are extremely detailed too.
The Ethiopian Church and Islam have a bedrock in ancient Judaism.
Ethiopians are the only Christian’s to mandate male circumcision, not allow pork or shellfish, and the men wear shawls over the head and pray/ sway back in forth in a way more similar to Jews than any Christians I’ve seen.
I’m the PP you responded to. good point! I’d love to learn more about the rules and history/logic behind them, the basics, not out of desire to convert but, for awareness and understanding. Would anyone here recommend a book on the topic?
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