Are Girl Scouts the mean girls?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My girls are in Cub Scouts/Scouts because we couldn’t get a call back from Girl Scouts, despite multiple calls and emails to several different branches. One branch did call us, but it was well after we had already signed up for Cub Scouts. I chalk that more up to busy/high demand, maybe I wasn’t calling at the right time of year.

That said, thinking about the little girls I know how are in Girl Scouts—or ANY elementary kid—I would never in a million years label any child as a “Mean Girl.” If you want to have a go at the parents, have a go at the parents. But take a look at your thread title. My goodness.

I am a Girl Scout leader and on my local Service Unit team (the collection of troops in the area) and I genuinely have no idea how Scouts BSA does it! They seem to have an endless supply of spots for new kids, meanwhile we ***always*** have more girls that want to join than available troops and struggle so much getting new leaders to volunteer. Does Scouts BSA just not have the same adult/child ratio requirements? Are parents more willing to volunteer for their sons than their daughters? Do paid staff step up and run troops if they don't have volunteers? I would love to know how they do it.

I don’t know, but here’s what I know: even if you don’t have a spot, you do have a duty to promptly call back the inquiring parent and tell them you don’t have a spot. Or at the very least have some automated email or text script you can send. Not replying is unacceptable. If you can’t promptly respond to inquiries, you have no business being a troop leader.

As a former troop leader, I don't know if or how I would get that email or phone call directly. There should be someone at the council who could help connect you to a membership manager who should work with you to help find a placement.

But it is true that a lot of troops are full. Ours was hosted at the school so we weren't allowed to bring in kids from outside the school community as a condition of being able to use classroom space.

It might make sense to reach out in the spring because it's hard to reach GS staff in the summer because so many are all about camp. On the flip side, spring is when they do the big membership drive, so it's possible a leader wouldn't know how many spots they have open until current girls renew.

My kid (age 11) was rejected on inquiry last year so we gave up. I don't understand how a Girl Scout troop can be full based on the leader ratios posted online. Are troops allowed to decide on their own that they are closed? A whole new mean girl group that happens to be paid for by cookies.

I believe that for older girls the troop size can go up to 12 without needing special approval to enlarge. After that point it was council discretion.

I'm sorry your daughter didn't find a space, but it's unkind and unfair to paint a whole bunch of girls as "mean girls" because of it. I sincerely doubt the troop members took a vote on your daughter. They probably had no idea if someone was trying to join.

There are a number of reasons it could be tough to join an established group. Like one of my daughter's troop's focus is travel, so by 7th grade they were already halfway through raising money for a big trip. Most of their activities were long term. Someone joining partway would need to be heavily parent subsidized, which could feel awkward to ask, since the current members already each earned about $1,000. It wouldn't be impossible to figure out, but for busy leaders working full time, it's a big thing to add a logistical equity puzzle. And to be honest, most of their activities when they weren't traveling were about raising money, so it might not be that interesting to join for someone not invested in that end goal.

My other daughter's troop is more badge activity focused, so it would be easier logistically to jump in midway and not need to be caught up. But still it can be tough to add someone. I volunteered at their last camping weekend and since everyone came we had exactly enough space to fit in the cars of the volunteer drivers and exactly the right amount of space in tents. I don't know if those leaders ever got new member requests, but I could see how it could complicate a system that they have worked for several years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My girls are in Cub Scouts/Scouts because we couldn’t get a call back from Girl Scouts, despite multiple calls and emails to several different branches. One branch did call us, but it was well after we had already signed up for Cub Scouts. I chalk that more up to busy/high demand, maybe I wasn’t calling at the right time of year.

That said, thinking about the little girls I know how are in Girl Scouts—or ANY elementary kid—I would never in a million years label any child as a “Mean Girl.” If you want to have a go at the parents, have a go at the parents. But take a look at your thread title. My goodness.

I am a Girl Scout leader and on my local Service Unit team (the collection of troops in the area) and I genuinely have no idea how Scouts BSA does it! They seem to have an endless supply of spots for new kids, meanwhile we ***always*** have more girls that want to join than available troops and struggle so much getting new leaders to volunteer. Does Scouts BSA just not have the same adult/child ratio requirements? Are parents more willing to volunteer for their sons than their daughters? Do paid staff step up and run troops if they don't have volunteers? I would love to know how they do it.

I don’t know, but here’s what I know: even if you don’t have a spot, you do have a duty to promptly call back the inquiring parent and tell them you don’t have a spot. Or at the very least have some automated email or text script you can send. Not replying is unacceptable. If you can’t promptly respond to inquiries, you have no business being a troop leader.

As a former troop leader, I don't know if or how I would get that email or phone call directly. There should be someone at the council who could help connect you to a membership manager who should work with you to help find a placement.

But it is true that a lot of troops are full. Ours was hosted at the school so we weren't allowed to bring in kids from outside the school community as a condition of being able to use classroom space.

It might make sense to reach out in the spring because it's hard to reach GS staff in the summer because so many are all about camp. On the flip side, spring is when they do the big membership drive, so it's possible a leader wouldn't know how many spots they have open until current girls renew.

My kid (age 11) was rejected on inquiry last year so we gave up. I don't understand how a Girl Scout troop can be full based on the leader ratios posted online. Are troops allowed to decide on their own that they are closed? A whole new mean girl group that happens to be paid for by cookies.

I believe that for older girls the troop size can go up to 12 without needing special approval to enlarge. After that point it was council discretion.

I'm sorry your daughter didn't find a space, but it's unkind and unfair to paint a whole bunch of girls as "mean girls" because of it. I sincerely doubt the troop members took a vote on your daughter. They probably had no idea if someone was trying to join.

There are a number of reasons it could be tough to join an established group. Like one of my daughter's troop's focus is travel, so by 7th grade they were already halfway through raising money for a big trip. Most of their activities were long term. Someone joining partway would need to be heavily parent subsidized, which could feel awkward to ask, since the current members already each earned about $1,000. It wouldn't be impossible to figure out, but for busy leaders working full time, it's a big thing to add a logistical equity puzzle. And to be honest, most of their activities when they weren't traveling were about raising money, so it might not be that interesting to join for someone not invested in that end goal.

My other daughter's troop is more badge activity focused, so it would be easier logistically to jump in midway and not need to be caught up. But still it can be tough to add someone. I volunteered at their last camping weekend and since everyone came we had exactly enough space to fit in the cars of the volunteer drivers and exactly the right amount of space in tents. I don't know if those leaders ever got new member requests, but I could see how it could complicate a system that they have worked for several years.

What is the ratio?

Our troop must be off. We have 15-16 girls and 2 leaders. I do think our troop is too big and it would be better if it were smaller. Our leaders accept anyone who wants to join.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[quote=named.

ous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My girls are in Cub Scouts/Scouts because we couldn’t get a call back from Girl Scouts, despite multiple calls and emails to several different branches. One branch did call us, but it was well after we had already signed up for Cub Scouts. I chalk that more up to busy/high demand, maybe I wasn’t calling at the right time of year.

That said, thinking about the little girls I know how are in Girl Scouts—or ANY elementary kid—I would never in a million years label any child as a “Mean Girl.” If you want to have a go at the parents, have a go at the parents. But take a look at your thread title. My goodness.

I am a Girl Scout leader and on my local Service Unit team (the collection of troops in the area) and I genuinely have no idea how Scouts BSA does it! They seem to have an endless supply of spots for new kids, meanwhile we ***always*** have more girls that want to join than available troops and struggle so much getting new leaders to volunteer. Does Scouts BSA just not have the same adult/child ratio requirements? Are parents more willing to volunteer for their sons than their daughters? Do paid staff step up and run troops if they don't have volunteers? I would love to know how they do it.

I don’t know, but here’s what I know: even if you don’t have a spot, you do have a duty to promptly call back the inquiring parent and tell them you don’t have a spot. Or at the very least have some automated email or text script you can send. Not replying is unacceptable. If you can’t promptly respond to inquiries, you have no business being a troop leader.

Look, I am a troop leader and although I agree that you should get a call back or told by someone that the troop is full, I think it is a stretch to say that the not doing so immediately means that someone has no business being a troop leader. First of all, like another poster said, I have no idea how I would be contacted if there was an inquiry for my troop- I get an automated message when someone new signs up for my troop but I have no idea how an inquiry would get to me- perhaps the inquiry is actually going to the council and not the troop leader?

Second, if a troop is full then the leader's main focus is on the troop, not responding to emails. I have a full time job and plan meetings at night after the kids go to bed. I will go to the Girl Scout store to pickup badges on days that I am running other errands. I am a room mom for my other kid's class be cause nobody else signed up for it. I signed up to lead the troop because another parent begged me to do it- she leads a troop for her older daughter and couldn't fit in running one for her younger but she really wanted her to have the chance to be in a troop. I am stretching pretty thin doing all these things and the parents always talk about how their girls love the brownie troop I run. So it doesn't quite follow that I would have "no business running a troop" because I might not reply immediately to an email from someone I don't know (that might have gone to my spam folder).

If the troop is full then there is an entire troop full of girls who were able to join. I run a Daisy troop and cannot have more than 12 girls unless another co-leader steps up. You want to step up and co-lead, be my guest. My kid is in the troop; if you don't want to help out then maybe look in the mirror and realize you are the one keeping your daughter away, not some random troop leader you don't know.

Wow, OK...which explains why DD is a Cub Scout. Where I have held multiple leadership roles for years. And also where there's no clubby quota control.

Cub scouts don’t have mandatory adult to child ratios? I guess that explains some part of the scouts bsa past…

Cub Scouts requires parent or guardian partnership at meetings and activities in K and 1st grade, and our pack continues that all the way through 5th grade, so we don't drop off. The youth protection rules also state that no adult may be alone with a child or children that are not their own, even if their own child is also present. A leader by themselves, for example, can't run a group meeting in a public place. There have to be at least two leaders at all times, no matter how few Scouts there are.

The bolded is the reason for the difference in how Girl Scouts treats full troops. Our GS troop doesn't have open spots, because we do drop offs so we can't have too many kids and maintain our ratios, especially for travel. For anything other than a troop meeting, it's 2 leaders for the first 12 scouts then 1 adult for every 1-6 scouts after that (for Brownies). Getting extra parents to attend other than the leaders is a challenge, because it is structured as a drop off program from the beginning.

(I think there's pluses and minus to that structure, and both the GS approach and the Cub Scout approach have things to recommend them)

+1 I have both a Cub Scout and a Girl Scout, and the mandatory parent attendance in Cub Scouts actually makes it MORE clubby and exclusive, because it requires a dedicated parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My girls are in Cub Scouts/Scouts because we couldn’t get a call back from Girl Scouts, despite multiple calls and emails to several different branches. One branch did call us, but it was well after we had already signed up for Cub Scouts. I chalk that more up to busy/high demand, maybe I wasn’t calling at the right time of year.

That said, thinking about the little girls I know how are in Girl Scouts—or ANY elementary kid—I would never in a million years label any child as a “Mean Girl.” If you want to have a go at the parents, have a go at the parents. But take a look at your thread title. My goodness.

I am a Girl Scout leader and on my local Service Unit team (the collection of troops in the area) and I genuinely have no idea how Scouts BSA does it! They seem to have an endless supply of spots for new kids, meanwhile we ***always*** have more girls that want to join than available troops and struggle so much getting new leaders to volunteer. Does Scouts BSA just not have the same adult/child ratio requirements? Are parents more willing to volunteer for their sons than their daughters? Do paid staff step up and run troops if they don't have volunteers? I would love to know how they do it.

I don’t know, but here’s what I know: even if you don’t have a spot, you do have a duty to promptly call back the inquiring parent and tell them you don’t have a spot. Or at the very least have some automated email or text script you can send. Not replying is unacceptable. If you can’t promptly respond to inquiries, you have no business being a troop leader.

As a former troop leader, I don't know if or how I would get that email or phone call directly. There should be someone at the council who could help connect you to a membership manager who should work with you to help find a placement.

But it is true that a lot of troops are full. Ours was hosted at the school so we weren't allowed to bring in kids from outside the school community as a condition of being able to use classroom space.

It might make sense to reach out in the spring because it's hard to reach GS staff in the summer because so many are all about camp. On the flip side, spring is when they do the big membership drive, so it's possible a leader wouldn't know how many spots they have open until current girls renew.

My kid (age 11) was rejected on inquiry last year so we gave up. I don't understand how a Girl Scout troop can be full based on the leader ratios posted online. Are troops allowed to decide on their own that they are closed? A whole new mean girl group that happens to be paid for by cookies.

I believe that for older girls the troop size can go up to 12 without needing special approval to enlarge. After that point it was council discretion.

I'm sorry your daughter didn't find a space, but it's unkind and unfair to paint a whole bunch of girls as "mean girls" because of it. I sincerely doubt the troop members took a vote on your daughter. They probably had no idea if someone was trying to join.

There are a number of reasons it could be tough to join an established group. Like one of my daughter's troop's focus is travel, so by 7th grade they were already halfway through raising money for a big trip. Most of their activities were long term. Someone joining partway would need to be heavily parent subsidized, which could feel awkward to ask, since the current members already each earned about $1,000. It wouldn't be impossible to figure out, but for busy leaders working full time, it's a big thing to add a logistical equity puzzle. And to be honest, most of their activities when they weren't traveling were about raising money, so it might not be that interesting to join for someone not invested in that end goal.

My other daughter's troop is more badge activity focused, so it would be easier logistically to jump in midway and not need to be caught up. But still it can be tough to add someone. I volunteered at their last camping weekend and since everyone came we had exactly enough space to fit in the cars of the volunteer drivers and exactly the right amount of space in tents. I don't know if those leaders ever got new member requests, but I could see how it could complicate a system that they have worked for several years.

What is the ratio?

Our troop must be off. We have 15-16 girls and 2 leaders. I do think our troop is too big and it would be better if it were smaller. Our leaders accept anyone who wants to join.

Ratios depend on age levels. If your troop is juniors or above you’re ok. (Juniors are 2 leaders for 16 kids for field trips, etc.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My girls are in Cub Scouts/Scouts because we couldn’t get a call back from Girl Scouts, despite multiple calls and emails to several different branches. One branch did call us, but it was well after we had already signed up for Cub Scouts. I chalk that more up to busy/high demand, maybe I wasn’t calling at the right time of year.

That said, thinking about the little girls I know how are in Girl Scouts—or ANY elementary kid—I would never in a million years label any child as a “Mean Girl.” If you want to have a go at the parents, have a go at the parents. But take a look at your thread title. My goodness.

I am a Girl Scout leader and on my local Service Unit team (the collection of troops in the area) and I genuinely have no idea how Scouts BSA does it! They seem to have an endless supply of spots for new kids, meanwhile we ***always*** have more girls that want to join than available troops and struggle so much getting new leaders to volunteer. Does Scouts BSA just not have the same adult/child ratio requirements? Are parents more willing to volunteer for their sons than their daughters? Do paid staff step up and run troops if they don't have volunteers? I would love to know how they do it.

I don’t know, but here’s what I know: even if you don’t have a spot, you do have a duty to promptly call back the inquiring parent and tell them you don’t have a spot. Or at the very least have some automated email or text script you can send. Not replying is unacceptable. If you can’t promptly respond to inquiries, you have no business being a troop leader.

As a former troop leader, I don't know if or how I would get that email or phone call directly. There should be someone at the council who could help connect you to a membership manager who should work with you to help find a placement.

But it is true that a lot of troops are full. Ours was hosted at the school so we weren't allowed to bring in kids from outside the school community as a condition of being able to use classroom space.

It might make sense to reach out in the spring because it's hard to reach GS staff in the summer because so many are all about camp. On the flip side, spring is when they do the big membership drive, so it's possible a leader wouldn't know how many spots they have open until current girls renew.

My kid (age 11) was rejected on inquiry last year so we gave up. I don't understand how a Girl Scout troop can be full based on the leader ratios posted online. Are troops allowed to decide on their own that they are closed? A whole new mean girl group that happens to be paid for by cookies.

I believe that for older girls the troop size can go up to 12 without needing special approval to enlarge. After that point it was council discretion.

I'm sorry your daughter didn't find a space, but it's unkind and unfair to paint a whole bunch of girls as "mean girls" because of it. I sincerely doubt the troop members took a vote on your daughter. They probably had no idea if someone was trying to join.

There are a number of reasons it could be tough to join an established group. Like one of my daughter's troop's focus is travel, so by 7th grade they were already halfway through raising money for a big trip. Most of their activities were long term. Someone joining partway would need to be heavily parent subsidized, which could feel awkward to ask, since the current members already each earned about $1,000. It wouldn't be impossible to figure out, but for busy leaders working full time, it's a big thing to add a logistical equity puzzle. And to be honest, most of their activities when they weren't traveling were about raising money, so it might not be that interesting to join for someone not invested in that end goal.

My other daughter's troop is more badge activity focused, so it would be easier logistically to jump in midway and not need to be caught up. But still it can be tough to add someone. I volunteered at their last camping weekend and since everyone came we had exactly enough space to fit in the cars of the volunteer drivers and exactly the right amount of space in tents. I don't know if those leaders ever got new member requests, but I could see how it could complicate a system that they have worked for several years.

What is the ratio?

Our troop must be off. We have 15-16 girls and 2 leaders. I do think our troop is too big and it would be better if it were smaller. Our leaders accept anyone who wants to join.

Ratios depend on age levels. If your troop is juniors or above you’re ok. (Juniors are 2 leaders for 16 kids for field trips, etc.)

We are daisies. Most parents stay at the meetings. I don’t know if it is an adult kid ratio. Outings also most parents stay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My girls are in Cub Scouts/Scouts because we couldn’t get a call back from Girl Scouts, despite multiple calls and emails to several different branches. One branch did call us, but it was well after we had already signed up for Cub Scouts. I chalk that more up to busy/high demand, maybe I wasn’t calling at the right time of year.

That said, thinking about the little girls I know how are in Girl Scouts—or ANY elementary kid—I would never in a million years label any child as a “Mean Girl.” If you want to have a go at the parents, have a go at the parents. But take a look at your thread title. My goodness.

I am a Girl Scout leader and on my local Service Unit team (the collection of troops in the area) and I genuinely have no idea how Scouts BSA does it! They seem to have an endless supply of spots for new kids, meanwhile we ***always*** have more girls that want to join than available troops and struggle so much getting new leaders to volunteer. Does Scouts BSA just not have the same adult/child ratio requirements? Are parents more willing to volunteer for their sons than their daughters? Do paid staff step up and run troops if they don't have volunteers? I would love to know how they do it.

I don’t know, but here’s what I know: even if you don’t have a spot, you do have a duty to promptly call back the inquiring parent and tell them you don’t have a spot. Or at the very least have some automated email or text script you can send. Not replying is unacceptable. If you can’t promptly respond to inquiries, you have no business being a troop leader.

As a former troop leader, I don't know if or how I would get that email or phone call directly. There should be someone at the council who could help connect you to a membership manager who should work with you to help find a placement.

But it is true that a lot of troops are full. Ours was hosted at the school so we weren't allowed to bring in kids from outside the school community as a condition of being able to use classroom space.

It might make sense to reach out in the spring because it's hard to reach GS staff in the summer because so many are all about camp. On the flip side, spring is when they do the big membership drive, so it's possible a leader wouldn't know how many spots they have open until current girls renew.

My kid (age 11) was rejected on inquiry last year so we gave up. I don't understand how a Girl Scout troop can be full based on the leader ratios posted online. Are troops allowed to decide on their own that they are closed? A whole new mean girl group that happens to be paid for by cookies.

I believe that for older girls the troop size can go up to 12 without needing special approval to enlarge. After that point it was council discretion.

I'm sorry your daughter didn't find a space, but it's unkind and unfair to paint a whole bunch of girls as "mean girls" because of it. I sincerely doubt the troop members took a vote on your daughter. They probably had no idea if someone was trying to join.

There are a number of reasons it could be tough to join an established group. Like one of my daughter's troop's focus is travel, so by 7th grade they were already halfway through raising money for a big trip. Most of their activities were long term. Someone joining partway would need to be heavily parent subsidized, which could feel awkward to ask, since the current members already each earned about $1,000. It wouldn't be impossible to figure out, but for busy leaders working full time, it's a big thing to add a logistical equity puzzle. And to be honest, most of their activities when they weren't traveling were about raising money, so it might not be that interesting to join for someone not invested in that end goal.

My other daughter's troop is more badge activity focused, so it would be easier logistically to jump in midway and not need to be caught up. But still it can be tough to add someone. I volunteered at their last camping weekend and since everyone came we had exactly enough space to fit in the cars of the volunteer drivers and exactly the right amount of space in tents. I don't know if those leaders ever got new member requests, but I could see how it could complicate a system that they have worked for several years.

What is the ratio?

Our troop must be off. We have 15-16 girls and 2 leaders. I do think our troop is too big and it would be better if it were smaller. Our leaders accept anyone who wants to join.

Ratios depend on age levels. If your troop is juniors or above you’re ok. (Juniors are 2 leaders for 16 kids for field trips, etc.)

We are daisies. Most parents stay at the meetings. I don’t know if it is an adult kid ratio. Outings also most parents stay.

For daisies, at troop meetings at your standard location, the ratio is 12 kids to 2 adults with an additional adult for each 6 additional kids. For outings it's 6 kids to 2 adults with an additional adult for 4 additional kids.

Note that "adults" have to be unrelated, registered, background checked, trained adults, at least one of whom is female. So a bunch of unregistered parents hanging around doesn't count.

For a daisy troop of 16, you'd need 3 actual registered/background checked adults for regular meetings and at least 5 registered/backgound checked adults for anything outside of your normal meeting place.

[Anonymous]

There are no mean children. The only mean girls are grown women. If your daughter grows up being mean to anyone it's time to face the mirror.